The *OFFICIAL* Vienna Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 3087 Old 03-29-2009, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

My intention is not to get into a back and forth on this matter Dave, but I just wanted to point out a couple of things.

FIrst and foremost, I think we can all agree that this can be extremely subjective. Or you wouldn't of went out of your way in your response to BigRed to emphasize that it was YOUR opinion, but now with the statement "good electronics are good electronics", seems to imply that the Primare is superior, and no longer is an opinion.

As far as room correction, you said you have never "heard" one that did as much good as it did bad. I noticed you said "heard", have you taken any in room response measurements to insure there were no user errors, or to see that maybe you just don't prefer a flat response?

I'll stick by my statement. It does not imply that Primare is superior, but rather that ALL good electronics will make an improvement to your system regardless of room condition. Hence the switch room anecdote. And I do believe that Primare is superior to many products out there, but not that it is the very best. "The Best" is subjective. In my experience, it delivers performance that is above average for its price category, specifically against other mass-produced competitors. Futhermore, I have found that it consistently delivers exemplary results with VA.

As far as room correction system, I have had a chance to hear many excellent examples. All of which did correct problems in systems that were not correctly setup (physically) in the first place. For in-cabinet or in-wall this may be a life-saver. Although most of these systems can correct frequency response errors, they do not take into account the original voicing of the speakers. In essence, your VAs no longer sound like VAs. AND, to make matters worse, most systems do not correct bass below a certain frequency which is where most room have the most problems. Nothing I have found does a greater of a job of maintaining the natural voice of a speaker as manually changing the position of the speaker. Nothing is as good as your ears at doing this.

Try this: Calibrate your system with the mic in one position. Notate the system calibration settings. Then, move the mic 6" in any direction. Calibrate and notate the settings. They should remarkably different from the original calibration.

Another question: How good could a FREE microphone actually be?

I could go on for several paragraphs of the other issues that auto-cal systems create, but I'm not going to. I try to keep my opinion out it, but I'm not the only one that feels this way. And, if someone asks for opinions and not fact, I feel free to speak.

Oh, by the way, I don't believe that flat is best. There wouldn't be hundreds of speaker manufacturers if that where the case...
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post #812 of 3087 Old 03-29-2009, 02:08 PM
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I have had Audio Aero Capitole REF Se and McIntosh MC275. Changed it with a Primare SPA22 and the Primare sounds better on all levels. So I cant say that I miss my old set-up. The Primare is a modul based system so there are improvments coming.

http://www.primare.net/documents/00063.pdf New video board and DSP card.

So room correction on the SPA22 is possible, all depends on Primare, send them a mail and wish for it, they have a suggestion box. So all suggestions a appreciated.

My setup: http://www.minhembio.com/icedearth

//Rickard, Sweden
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post #813 of 3087 Old 03-29-2009, 10:27 PM
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^ wow, beautiful setup!
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post #814 of 3087 Old 03-30-2009, 06:48 AM
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+1
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post #815 of 3087 Old 03-31-2009, 08:48 PM
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Update:

Received the Maestro, and Haydens sooner than expected. Unfortunately though, I am still waiting the B-Tech77's for the Haydens.




I have lots of cleaning, patch, and rear wire work to do.
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post #816 of 3087 Old 03-31-2009, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Update:

Received the Maestro, and Haydens sooner than expected. Unfortunately though, I am still waiting the B-Tech77's for the Haydens.




I have lots of cleaning, patch, and rear wire work to do.


looking gorgeous!!!! How you liking the sound now?
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post #817 of 3087 Old 03-31-2009, 10:19 PM
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Thanks Big.

It is a bit of an adjustment coming from the phantom center. The Maestro certainly has a bit of a "thick" sound in comparsion. I remember some saying that dialogue seemed "muted", or unintelligible, but so far, even at low volumes, it is performing rather well IMO, certainly a "larger" sound in comparsion to the DT it replaced.

This is an extremely premature observation though, as nothing has been properly calibrated, or level matched. Not to mention, I need to break it in, and spend some more time listening with material I am familiar with.

Hopefully, I'll have the B-Techs by Friday so that I can mount the Haydens, level match everything, and let 'er rip!

On another note, I feel like the Outlaws are underperforming, and they are thriving for more power to really open up. Hopefully, I can upgrade the amps sooner rather than later.

As for the pre/pro, I think I am going to wait until I get the amps, and subs, and shoot for the Denon, as I really like the way the VA's mate with the somewhat "clincal" sound of the AVP A1. They seem to really come alive, as the Denon has an overly clean sound to it, which IMO, is a great blend given the warm, laid back sound of the VA'a.

All that being said, this will allow me the opportunity to hopefully see what the new Parasound has to offer. You never know!
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post #818 of 3087 Old 03-31-2009, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Thanks Big.

It is a bit of an adjustment coming from the phantom center. The Maestro certainly has a bit of a "thick" sound in comparsion. I remember some saying that dialogue seemed "muted", or unintelligible, but so far, even at low volumes, it is performing rather well IMO, certainly a "larger" sound in comparsion to the DT it replaced.

This is an extremely premature observation though, as nothing has been properly calibrated, or level matched. Not to mention, I need to break it in, and spend some more time listening with material I am familiar with.

Hopefully, I'll have the B-Techs by Friday so that I can mount the Haydens, level match everything, and let 'er rip!

On another note, I feel like the Outlaws are underperforming, and they are thriving for more power to really open up. Hopefully, I can upgrade the amps sooner rather than later.

As for the pre/pro, I think I am going to wait until I get the amps, and subs, and shoot for the Denon, as I really like the way the VA's mate with the somewhat "clincal" sound of the AVP A1. They seem to really come alive, as the Denon has an overly clean sound to it, which IMO, is a great blend given the warm, laid back sound of the VA'a.

All that being said, this will allow me the opportunity to hopefully see what the new Parasound has to offer. You never know!

great to hear! Defiantely give it some time to break in though.

The AVP A1 is excellent! I know someone on a different forum that just got it and the matching amp and is in love. I also got to recently hear the AVP A1 and the POA-A1 mated with a full Salk HT3 surround system and it sounded incredible

But anyway i bet if feels good to have everything falling into place now! Seems like its been a long time coming for you now haha. But good for you and now you just need to sit back and freaking enjoy the heck out of it!
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post #819 of 3087 Old 04-01-2009, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigred7078 View Post

great to hear! Defiantely give it some time to break in though.

The AVP A1 is excellent! I know someone on a different forum that just got it and the matching amp and is in love. I also got to recently hear the AVP A1 and the POA-A1 mated with a full Salk HT3 surround system and it sounded incredible

But anyway i bet if feels good to have everything falling into place now! Seems like its been a long time coming for you now haha. But good for you and now you just need to sit back and freaking enjoy the heck out of it!

Sure does!

Still missing a pretty important piece of the puzzle... the subs! My dilemna is that I would like to go with dual JL's, and that would run me around 3k, or better if I go the used route (F110's would be enough for my room). I just don't know if it is the smartest thing to do atm, considering everything else I plan on buying. I think I may just do the ML's for now, and after our son is born, I'll just sell off the ML's, and spring for the JL's. Hopefully, I'll have all the other components in place in terms of pre/pro, and amps.

P.S. I know, I am all over the place! lol
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post #820 of 3087 Old 04-01-2009, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

As for the pre/pro, I think I am going to wait until I get the amps, and subs, and shoot for the Denon, as I really like the way the VA's mate with the somewhat "clincal" sound of the AVP A1. They seem to really come alive, as the Denon has an overly clean sound to it, which IMO, is a great blend given the warm, laid back sound of the VA'a.

Hey Fanatic,

You won't be disappointed with the AVP-A1.

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post #821 of 3087 Old 04-01-2009, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Update:

Received the Maestro, and Haydens sooner than expected. Unfortunately though, I am still waiting the B-Tech77's for the Haydens.

Very nice.

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post #822 of 3087 Old 04-01-2009, 01:54 AM
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Another one of the features that allures me to the AVP A1 is the multi-sub bass management. It is one less piece of equipment I have to have in my rack.
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post #823 of 3087 Old 04-01-2009, 01:54 AM
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Very nice.

Thanks.
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post #824 of 3087 Old 04-01-2009, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Sure does!

Still missing a pretty important piece of the puzzle... the subs! My dilemna is that I would like to go with dual JL's, and that would run me around 3k, or better if I go the used route (F110's would be enough for my room). I just don't know if it is the smartest thing to do atm, considering everything else I plan on buying. I think I may just do the ML's for now, and after our son is born, I'll just sell off the ML's, and spring for the JL's. Hopefully, I'll have all the other components in place in terms of pre/pro, and amps.

Very nice set-up.....Do I also see a Panamax 5400-PM in the distance?

I say get one JL Audio F110 or F112 now and see how that sounds in your room. Enjoy the new born for a while, make all your remaining tweaks and adjustments to your system and enjoy the VA's for awhile, then tackle the pre /pro / amp challenge.

By the way really like the custom center speaker stand that you had made (thanks for the website for your source). Did you provide drawings with measurements to the builder?

Mid 2010 Mac Mini>B&W 805Di> Rotel RSX-1560> Harmony 890> iPad (4th gen.)
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post #825 of 3087 Old 04-01-2009, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ERAU23 View Post

Very nice set-up.....Do I also see a Panamax 5400-PM in the distance?

It's actually the M5500

Quote:
I say get one JL Audio F110 or F112 now and see how that sounds in your room

You're probably right. I know the subs will yield the greatest improvement, but I was just exploring my options. Also, with ML's, I would get them on the cheap, and maybe even turn a profit if I sold them later down the road to get the JL's.

Quote:
Enjoy the new born for a while,

Thank you.

Quote:
make all your remaining tweaks and adjustments to your system and enjoy the VA's for awhile, then tackle the pre /pro / amp challenge.

By the way really like the custom center speaker stand that you had made (thanks for the website for your source). Did you provide drawings with measurements to the builder?

The only thing I provided for them was the projected height, and measurements for the Maestro. The design is based off of one of their baseline models with some modifications, such as 2" posts as opposed to 1", a 12"x12" plate and so on.

If you decided to have something done, you will not be dissappointed. My picture does it no justice. Not to mention, it is the exact same finish as the Grand line braces.
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post #826 of 3087 Old 04-01-2009, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

after our son is born,

P.S. I know, I am all over the place! lol

Congrats Fanaticalism, on your new addition... and I don't mean the A/V. Pretty soon you'll have little fingerprints all over the Kuro, and spaghetti stuffed in your speakers. I'm kidding, of course. Seriously, congrats my friend.

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post #827 of 3087 Old 04-01-2009, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Congrats Fanaticalism, on your new addition... and I don't mean the A/V. Pretty soon you'll have little fingerprints all over the Kuro, and spaghetti stuffed in your speakers. I'm kidding, of course. Seriously, congrats my friend.

LOL! I remember seeing a picture of someones setup with newly acquired LS6's, and a moat of baby gates surrounding them. That is what popped into my mind as I read your post Wabo. LOL!

...But, thank you!
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post #828 of 3087 Old 04-02-2009, 12:08 PM
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Finally got the speakers last weekend and got them all setup. This is just my apartment that I am living in while going to school. Hopefully the job market will get better...



I have the Sony 40" XBR2 sitting on my tv stand (want to wall mount, but worried I may lose my deposit). The Mozart Grands are powered by an old Yamaha HTR-5280. The silver component is actually my HTPC. Since I am not allowed to put a dish up, I have the Charter cable box 4250. The PS3 is somewhat hidden in the lower left of the stand and the Panamax M5400-PM protects all of my equipment. The voltage levels really swing quite a bit which is the reason I decided to go for the voltage regulation.

I do realize that these speakers probably are not in the optimal listening positions, but I was at least able to get them to give me a centralized image that reflects what is being displayed on the TV. I tried to follow the advice of many others in this post such as Dave Carr, but my listening area does not permit. When I graduate and move out, I hope to get these speakers properly calibrated. The next component will be either a new display (Pioneer Elite 111/101 and move the XBR2 into the bedroom) or a new receiver (considering many, but Primare's SPA22 sounds like a good match). I must admit that I am very proud of my setup considering I funded ALL of it through working long hours both on campus and off campus with part-time jobs. All comments are welcome!
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post #829 of 3087 Old 04-02-2009, 02:20 PM
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^ looks fantastic! great job! Enjoy the music
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post #830 of 3087 Old 04-02-2009, 08:34 PM
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You must be very industrious.
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post #831 of 3087 Old 04-03-2009, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HisHeirness23 View Post

Finally got the speakers last weekend and got them all setup. This is just my apartment that I am living in while going to school. Hopefully the job market will get better...



I have the Sony 40" XBR2 sitting on my tv stand (want to wall mount, but worried I may lose my deposit). The Mozart Grands are powered by an old Yamaha HTR-5280. The silver component is actually my HTPC. Since I am not allowed to put a dish up, I have the Charter cable box 4250. The PS3 is somewhat hidden in the lower left of the stand and the Panamax M5400-PM protects all of my equipment. The voltage levels really swing quite a bit which is the reason I decided to go for the voltage regulation.

I do realize that these speakers probably are not in the optimal listening positions, but I was at least able to get them to give me a centralized image that reflects what is being displayed on the TV. I tried to follow the advice of many others in this post such as Dave Carr, but my listening area does not permit. When I graduate and move out, I hope to get these speakers properly calibrated. The next component will be either a new display (Pioneer Elite 111/101 and move the XBR2 into the bedroom) or a new receiver (considering many, but Primare's SPA22 sounds like a good match). I must admit that I am very proud of my setup considering I funded ALL of it through working long hours both on campus and off campus with part-time jobs. All comments are welcome!

Wow! Looks Great!

Keep up the hard work!
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post #832 of 3087 Old 04-03-2009, 03:21 PM
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Someone explains this to me...
I just gave the Beethoven Concert Grand a listening, I had ear fatigue within the first 5 minutes of listening.

I read many comments about the VA being laid back.
That's not what I experienced.

In contrast, the Focal Chorus 826 V I listened to had a more laid back upper range and pleasant mid-range.
The bass on the Focal wasn't as good as the VA though, but its tweeter was just right for me.

So, again what's the basis of those laid back comment on VA speakers?
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post #833 of 3087 Old 04-03-2009, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

Someone explains this to me...
I just gave the Beethoven Concert Grand a listening, I had ear fatigue within the first 5 minutes of listening.

I read many comments about the VA being laid back.
That's not what I experienced.

In contrast, the Focal Chorus 826 V I listened to had a more laid back upper range and pleasant mid-range.
The bass on the Focal wasn't as good as the VA though, but its tweeter was just right for me.

So, again what's the basis of those laid back comment on VA speakers?


are you sure you were listening to the right speakers??? lol

I have heard the BCG's and the 826V's side by side and the Focals were MUCH brighter.

Don't know what to tell ya otherwise. I have NEVER heard anyone say they have even come close to ear fatigue with Viennas.
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post #834 of 3087 Old 04-03-2009, 03:34 PM
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are you sure you were listening to the right speakers??? lol

I have heard the BCG's and the 826V's side by side and the Focals were MUCH brighter.

Don't know what to tell ya otherwise. I have NEVER heard anyone say they have even come close to ear fatigue with Viennas.

I am being serious.
Even the shop owner looked at me funny.
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post #835 of 3087 Old 04-03-2009, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

Someone explains this to me...
I just gave the Beethoven Concert Grand a listening, I had ear fatigue within the first 5 minutes of listening.

I read many comments about the VA being laid back.
That's not what I experienced.

In contrast, the Focal Chorus 826 V I listened to had a more laid back upper range and pleasant mid-range.
The bass on the Focal wasn't as good as the VA though, but its tweeter was just right for me.

So, again what's the basis of those laid back comment on VA speakers?

Huh. Sounds like a setup or system compatibility issue to me. Were you using good electronics? The CG is a BIG speaker...

Also, toe-in will effect the sound from the upper midrange and higher. CGs should be toed-in so that the point that the tweeter centerline intersects about 1.5 feet behind your head.
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post #836 of 3087 Old 04-03-2009, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Carr View Post

Huh. Sounds like a setup or system compatibility issue to me. Were you using good electronics? The CG is a BIG speaker...

Also, toe-in will effect the sound from the upper midrange and higher. CGs should be toed-in so that the point that the tweeter centerline intersects about 1.5 feet behind your head.

By all accounts, the owner is a pro.
Now, the AV was the last speaker set I heard after a very long day that started with work and then speaker listening.
By that time, I was hungry and tired.
I plan on going back tomorrow.
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post #837 of 3087 Old 04-03-2009, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

By all accounts, the owner is a pro.
Now, the AV was the last speaker set I heard after a very long day that started with work and then speaker listening.
By that time, I was hungry and tired.
I plan on going back tomorrow.

yeah give it another go, the VA's are the polar opposite of "bright" lol. Good luck
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post #838 of 3087 Old 04-03-2009, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Carr View Post

Huh. Sounds like a setup or system compatibility issue to me. Were you using good electronics? The CG is a BIG speaker...

Also, toe-in will effect the sound from the upper midrange and higher. CGs should be toed-in so that the point that the tweeter centerline intersects about 1.5 feet behind your head.


This is so spot on. I now have the Mozarts, but before that I had the BBG's, which I had to pass on to my brother, because they just did not have the room to breath in my setup, and I can say with the up most of confidence, that the VA's are extremely sensitive to placement. I literally used a pointer, a compass, a level, and measuring tape for the placement of both the BBG's, and the Mozarts. No matter what I did, the BBG's were extremely boomy, and congested, while the Mozarts, after what... close to a month? I have finally dialed in. Such incremental movements affected what I heard.
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post #839 of 3087 Old 04-04-2009, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

This is so spot on. I now have the Mozarts, but before that I had the BBG's, which I had to pass on to my brother, because they just did not have the room to breath in my setup, and I can say with the up most of confidence, that the VA's are extremely sensitive to placement. I literally used a pointer, a compass, a level, and measuring tape for the placement of both the BBG's, and the Mozarts. No matter what I did, the BBG's were extremely boomy, and congested, while the Mozarts, after what... close to a month? I have finally dialed in. Such incremental movements affected what I heard.

That's exactly what the shop owner did, and it got me intrigued and worried.
The measuring tape and pointer were one thing, but as soon as he brought the level, I got worried.

I mean come on!
All I have to do is tilt my head just a bit to void all that work.
I certainly wouldn't want to do that in my home.

Now, when I said the speakers were a little bright, I meant too detailed on the upper range side.
That tweeter was too much for my ears.

Anyway, I will give it another try.
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post #840 of 3087 Old 04-04-2009, 09:29 AM
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Hi all

I have been following the thread since I have heard quite good things about these speakers, and I would like to get recommendations on a 5.1 setup.

I am thinking about getting an Arcam Avr 600 to go with them and the room in which I would place them measures about 30 square meters.

What do you think about the best setup with VA? will the amplifier be good enough or is there something else that would go along better with them?

Many thanks in advance
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