The *OFFICIAL* Vienna Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 3044 Old 07-22-2009, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by uclabruins View Post

Do we think the denon 2310 or the 3310 will work well with the beethoven baby grands, maestro, and waltzes?

The 4310 and 5308 are also options as I'm willing to spend the money--just more than willing to save it, if possible.

I'm talking to MagnoliaHT and Denon right now, but am looking for second, or "outsider" opinions.

Inching closer to a purchase... I can feel the anticipation building baby!

Since you "won't be cranking the volume" you could get away with a lower powered AVR, but if you go below the 3310, you step down in the quality of the power supply, DACs and processing. I think the 3310 would be a prudent choice that shouldn't have much if any apparent decrease in sound quality from the 4310.
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post #1082 of 3044 Old 07-22-2009, 04:31 PM
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For $5,500, I'd much rather have separates than a receiver, by a long-shot. Or, stay with a much less expensive receiver and put the difference towards something that will make a real difference in performance and your viewing/ listening experience.
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post #1083 of 3044 Old 07-22-2009, 06:40 PM
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UCLA if you are set on Denon, the 3310 ($1500) is the way to go. It is the first Denon with pre-outs if you wanted to add an amplifier. Personally I would go with a 5 channel amp like the Emotiva XPA-5 and go with another company that has pre-outs at a cheaper price. Denon isn't designed for 4 ohm speakers. You may get years out of an AVR that cannot handle that load, but personally I wouldn't take the chance.

After you have the amp you can go to all separates down the road. Emotiva makes cheap pre-pros but they won't be out for a while. There are a bunch of companies out there though. Emotiva is typically price friendly.

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post #1084 of 3044 Old 07-23-2009, 06:08 PM
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I'm looking to purchase a turntable here soon, and was wondering if anyone had any advice...

The two models i have in mind for what i want to spend on one are...

Pro-ject Debut III ($379) and the Music Hall MMF 2.2 ($449)

Anyone have any experience with these? I was also thinking about it i got the Pro-ject and added a Grado Prestige Red cartridge to it, would it be better than the stocked MMF 2.2?
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post #1085 of 3044 Old 07-24-2009, 10:58 AM
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I hear ya on the separates issue. I am not set on denon or any particular av. I'm looking at denon and integra because of their video upscaling abilities. The recent release denons 3310 and 4310 have anchor bay technologies in them. I feel that I should also make sure that the receiver has dolby digital hd and dts hd. So those are a few features I may or may not forfeit when I pull the trigger.

I am mostly concerned with the sound of classical music (that's why I'm going with the viennas); primare might be up there for another choice because I will probably be using magnolia/BB.

I have a great opportunity to get a brand new system to play the VAs--I'm not adding on or upgrading so that takes out a little of the headache as far as compatibility is concerned. Whatever works best to bring out those speakers is what I'd like to focus on and then I can weigh how bad I want that upscaling feature. In building an HT system from scratch I'm planning on spending a minimum of 10k and probably a max of 15.
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post #1086 of 3044 Old 07-24-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigred7078 View Post

I'm looking to purchase a turntable here soon, and was wondering if anyone had any advice...

The two models i have in mind for what i want to spend on one are...

Pro-ject Debut III ($379) and the Music Hall MMF 2.2 ($449)

Anyone have any experience with these? I was also thinking about it i got the Pro-ject and added a Grado Prestige Red cartridge to it, would it be better than the stocked MMF 2.2?

Bigred:

You piqued my curiousity re: the turntables. I have about 500 vinyl albums which I haven't played since assembling my current system. I have an older turntable that I have been unable to get operating. My plan had been to get the older turntable working, I would listen to some of my vinyl and determine whether the SQ was good enough to invest in another turntable.

So, do you currently have a turntable? If so, how does the vinyl compare to CDs in terms of SQ. What type of music do you listen to?

Thanks.
Ese'
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post #1087 of 3044 Old 07-24-2009, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclabruins View Post

I hear ya on the separates issue. I am not set on denon or any particular av. I'm looking at denon and integra because of their video upscaling abilities. The recent release denons 3310 and 4310 have anchor bay technologies in them. I feel that I should also make sure that the receiver has dolby digital hd and dts hd. So those are a few features I may or may not forfeit when I pull the trigger.

I am mostly concerned with the sound of classical music (that's why I'm going with the viennas); primare might be up there for another choice because I will probably be using magnolia/BB.

I have a great opportunity to get a brand new system to play the VAs--I'm not adding on or upgrading so that takes out a little of the headache as far as compatibility is concerned. Whatever works best to bring out those speakers is what I'd like to focus on and then I can weigh how bad I want that upscaling feature. In building an HT system from scratch I'm planning on spending a minimum of 10k and probably a max of 15.


the video upscaling is REALLY overated. IF you watch a lot of VHS tapes well then i could see why you would want this, but from what i have see there really is not much improvement, if any.
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post #1088 of 3044 Old 07-24-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ese View Post

Bigred:

You piqued my curiousity re: the turntables. I have about 500 vinyl albums which I haven't played since assembling my current system. I have an older turntable that I have been unable to get operating. My plan had been to get the older turntable working, I would listen to some of my vinyl and determine whether the SQ was good enough to invest in another turntable.

So, do you currently have a turntable? If so, how does the vinyl compare to CDs in terms of SQ. What type of music do you listen to?

Thanks.
Ese'

Ese,

no i currently do not have a TT. But my best friend is an HUGE lover of all thigns vinyl. He recenetly really got me into it. Its almost an art. There is SOOO much to do with this aspect of audio. I love the tweak-ability of everything. Ther is also pretty drastic changes in SQ going from turntable to turntable, cartridge to cartridge and tonearm to tonearm. Its pretty crazy. Then of course there is the fun of vinyl hunting. Whats more fun than searching out for your favorite records and collecting them, its just a different experience than collecting CD's since so many are no longer in production and what not.

The Sound to me is just unbelieveable. ITs so freakin open and airy. The soundstage is whoa, big. Its a different experience for sure. There is of course the pops and clicks that many do not like, but its just part of the experience whether that be good or bad.

I'm very new to TT's so im in the process of trying to get my very first one. I just don't know what to do yet...so many options and variations.


Your in a good place, being that you have a large collection of vinyl already. Just try out a new TT and let the music take you over

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post #1089 of 3044 Old 07-24-2009, 12:57 PM
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Get your McIntosh, then get one of these.
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post #1090 of 3044 Old 07-24-2009, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigred7078 View Post

the video upscaling is REALLY overated. IF you watch a lot of VHS tapes well then i could see why you would want this, but from what i have see there really is not much improvement, if any.

I think you're right. I had a specific directv channel that I watch a lot that's standard def, but I should probably let the upscaling issue go. By the way, my brother lives in columbia. He goes to u of missouri.

I had a magnolia rep over today. It now looks like it comes down to whether the viennas will see more music listening with a two channel system in which case it's primare amps. Or if I go 5 channel for HT, he's suggesting the pioneer sc 07 or 09 would go well with the speakers.

I haven't read pioneer matching up with the viennas anywhere else so I'm in a bit of a quandry. I'll be watching the occasional opera or classical music concert on blu-ray so having five channels would be nice. Also sports in surround would be great. But the purist in me says maybe I should just do that two channel primare option. I'm guessing it would sound better in a way, but comparing the two options is like apples and oranges.
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post #1091 of 3044 Old 07-24-2009, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclabruins View Post

I think you're right. I had a specific directv channel that I watch a lot that's standard def, but I should probably let the upscaling issue go. By the way, my brother lives in columbia. He goes to u of missouri.

I had a magnolia rep over today. It now looks like it comes down to whether the viennas will see more music listening with a two channel system in which case it's primare amps. Or if I go 5 channel for HT, he's suggesting the pioneer sc 07 or 09 would go well with the speakers.

I haven't read pioneer matching up with the viennas anywhere else so I'm in a bit of a quandry. I'll be watching the occasional opera or classical music concert on blu-ray so having five channels would be nice. Also sports in surround would be great. But the purist in me says maybe I should just do that two channel primare option. I'm guessing it would sound better in a way, but comparing the two options is like apples and oranges.

Primare makes a 5 channel amp, the A30.5, and a prepro, the SP32, though I'm not sure if the prepro been released yet.

The amp is "only" 100 watts per channel, but trust me, as long as the amp has a good sized power supply (the Primare does), 100 watts is plenty. I use a 100 watt Classe amp in my system in a 13x23x9 room and I've never reached a volume level that was too much for the amp.
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post #1092 of 3044 Old 07-24-2009, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclabruins View Post

I hear ya on the separates issue. I am not set on denon or any particular av. I'm looking at denon and integra because of their video upscaling abilities. The recent release denons 3310 and 4310 have anchor bay technologies in them. I feel that I should also make sure that the receiver has dolby digital hd and dts hd. So those are a few features I may or may not forfeit when I pull the trigger.

I am mostly concerned with the sound of classical music (that's why I'm going with the viennas); primare might be up there for another choice because I will probably be using magnolia/BB.

I have a great opportunity to get a brand new system to play the VAs--I'm not adding on or upgrading so that takes out a little of the headache as far as compatibility is concerned. Whatever works best to bring out those speakers is what I'd like to focus on and then I can weigh how bad I want that upscaling feature. In building an HT system from scratch I'm planning on spending a minimum of 10k and probably a max of 15.

What display do you have? Usually newer HDTVs do a great job of up-converting to their native format. I would look at the Onkyo 876 or 906. It is Integra's sister company. Both of those models have the HQV-Reon chip (The best in an AVR that I know of) and can be had a LOT cheaper. They are both winding down their time (new models coming soon). Deals can be had. shoponkyo.com has a silver 876 for $899 (refurbished). Both can handle 4 ohm speakers. This would leave money for an external amp if you felt you needed it. I honestly don't think you would need it. Hope that helps.

I run an Onkyo 805 with Mozart Grand fronts with no problem. I really like the sound I get listening to anything, and I am all over with music.

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post #1093 of 3044 Old 07-25-2009, 09:47 AM
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[quote=mbyrnes;16884524]What display do you have?

Samsung 40" lcd hdtv, about 2 years old.

This would leave money for an external amp if you felt you needed it. I honestly don't think you would need it.

I agree. Thanks for the advice, and have a great weekend!
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post #1094 of 3044 Old 07-25-2009, 10:09 AM
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Primare makes a 5 channel amp, the A30.5, and a prepro, the SP32, though I'm not sure if the prepro been released yet.

The amp is "only" 100 watts per channel, but trust me, as long as the amp has a good sized power supply (the Primare does), 100 watts is plenty. I use a 100 watt Classe amp in my system in a 13x23x9 room and I've never reached a volume level that was too much for the amp.

The 30.5 and the prepro route I've given some thought to. According to the primare website, I think that prepro is due out in the winter; it sounds like a really nice option.

I don't think I'll need the volume either, especially in my room. I guess the theory is that having that kind of power at lower volumes still gives you a cleaner, quality sound than a cheaper av. But I think with either choice I'll be in no position to complain. I'm just happy that I'm fortunate enough to take advantage of these great speakers! Can't wait!!
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post #1095 of 3044 Old 07-25-2009, 12:53 PM
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I thought it might be time to chime in:

Amps for Vienna:

Pre/Pro/Power is recommended, but obviously costly. Consider this though: a Pioneer Elite SC09 has a list price of $7k. A Primare SP32/A30.5 has a list price of $8k. SQ definitely goes to Primare, while the Pioneer is more feature laden.

I would recommend this: a Primare SPA22. This is an integrated theater amplifier based on the SP32 preamp but with on-board 120 watt x5 amplification. This is a much better option than a japanese reciever with external amps (even Primare). It beats the AVR5803 and SC09 in a head to head SQ comparison, and offers hardware upgradeability that is unique at any pricepoint.

BTW, no need to consider Primare as a two-channel only option. The new processor design is amongst the best analog preamps that I have had the priviledge to use. Seriously. Its that good.

Surround Channels:

Bigger is always better, given that they will fit. In this order: Waltz, Haydn, Bach, Mozart, etc.

Subwoofers:

This bares repeating: I have yet to work with a woofer that integrates as musically as a REL. Yes, the JL woofers are just fine. Not trying to bash them.

A T1 with Mozart in a small/mid-size room would be fine. If a bit more can be spent, an R305 or B3 will reward you with increased extension, integration and fidelity.

Turntables:

There is reveiw out there that directly compares the Music Hall to the Project Debut III. The Debut III won. It has been the number one recommended entry level audiophile turntable for more than a few years running. Enough said. Save the extra $$ and buy a better phonstage.
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post #1096 of 3044 Old 07-25-2009, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclabruins View Post

The 30.5 and the prepro route I've given some thought to. According to the primare website, I think that prepro is due out in the winter; it sounds like a really nice option.

I don't think I'll need the volume either, especially in my room. I guess the theory is that having that kind of power at lower volumes still gives you a cleaner, quality sound than a cheaper av. But I think with either choice I'll be in no position to complain. I'm just happy that I'm fortunate enough to take advantage of these great speakers! Can't wait!!

The pre/pro and integrated are out and available.
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post #1097 of 3044 Old 07-25-2009, 01:06 PM
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Get your McIntosh, then get one of these.

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post #1098 of 3044 Old 07-26-2009, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigred7078 View Post

Anyone like a VA and McIntosh pairing?

I love my pairing!

I am using the VA Mahlers with my MC-501 mono amps and t sounds wonderful. I am using a MC-7106 for an interim solution to drive my Oratorio center and Waltz surrounds.
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post #1099 of 3044 Old 07-28-2009, 05:22 PM
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Listened to the SP32 and A30.5 with the baby grands. Overall, very impressive. The soundstage was hard to be believed and female voices were everything you could ask for.

Male voices: springsteen, cash, and some I don't know the names of, were not to my liking so much. A little reverberating is, unfortunately, the best way I can describe them. Maybe because the detail was bringing out the deepness of the male vocals and making it sound vibrational compared to the female vocals. Not sure why I didn't like it, but it could have been caused by the recordings or the fact that the speakers are so good. Or maybe some simple tweaking would fix it. The set up was done pretty much on the fly and no sub was involved.

The staff love to pump the volume, but violins sound especially harsh when this is done even at moderately high volumes. At lower volumes the quality of instruments and voices was much improved overall. I had to keep asking them to turn it down because of this. Not sure if that's a bad sign, a mixed sign, or a missed sign I'm not reading right.

It would be hard to purchase the mozarts after hearing the bbg's. The babies had more clarity and felt "more in your face"--in a good way. After reading up on the B3 it's looking more and more like it'll be in my future. The maestro is a certainty, and the waltzes a strong probability. Still somewhat sorting out the separate or receiver option. Listened to a marantz today with the viennas, but I'm heavily leaning to the primare.
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post #1100 of 3044 Old 07-31-2009, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclabruins View Post

Listened to the SP32 and A30.5 with the baby grands. Overall, very impressive. The soundstage was hard to be believed and female voices were everything you could ask for.

Male voices: springsteen, cash, and some I don't know the names of, were not to my liking so much. A little reverberating is, unfortunately, the best way I can describe them. Maybe because the detail was bringing out the deepness of the male vocals and making it sound vibrational compared to the female vocals. Not sure why I didn't like it, but it could have been caused by the recordings or the fact that the speakers are so good. Or maybe some simple tweaking would fix it. The set up was done pretty much on the fly and no sub was involved.

The staff love to pump the volume, but violins sound especially harsh when this is done even at moderately high volumes. At lower volumes the quality of instruments and voices was much improved overall. I had to keep asking them to turn it down because of this. Not sure if that's a bad sign, a mixed sign, or a missed sign I'm not reading right.

It would be hard to purchase the mozarts after hearing the bbg's. The babies had more clarity and felt "more in your face"--in a good way. After reading up on the B3 it's looking more and more like it'll be in my future. The maestro is a certainty, and the waltzes a strong probability. Still somewhat sorting out the separate or receiver option. Listened to a marantz today with the viennas, but I'm heavily leaning to the primare.

Were you at the Santa Monica location? If so, I can tell you from experience that anything you like in that room WILL sound better at home...
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post #1101 of 3044 Old 07-31-2009, 10:14 PM
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Were you at the Santa Monica location? If so, I can tell you from experience that anything you like in that room WILL sound better at home...

Earlier today I was really going crazy with my Mozart Grands. I still find no faults with them and they definitely sound better than the Best Buy Magnolia room I auditioned in. I listen to Metal, Hard Rock, Techno, R&B, alternative, Classic Rock, Jazz, Classical, etc. The problem I have is bad recordings. the music doesn't sound bad, but not as good as other recordings.

When I watch a movie, or TV show, and hear something that actually makes me get up and check my house for the source of the sound, that is perfection. I cannot tell you how many times I thought I heard something in my house, and figured out later it was on the material I was watching. Nothing has been more life like in my experience.

The Mozart Grands have been the best thing have ever spent money on, bar none. I just wish I had a job and could complete my Vienna system. The time off has let me get intimate with my MGs.

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post #1102 of 3044 Old 08-01-2009, 06:31 AM
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Earlier today I was really going crazy with my Mozart Grands. I still find no faults with them and they definitely sound better than the Best Buy Magnolia room I auditioned in. I listen to Metal, Hard Rock, Techno, R&B, alternative, Classic Rock, Jazz, Classical, etc. The problem I have is bad recordings. the music doesn't sound bad, but not as good as other recordings.

When I watch a movie, or TV show, and hear something that actually makes me get up and check my house for the source of the sound, that is perfection. I cannot tell you how many times I thought I heard something in my house, and figured out later it was on the material I was watching. Nothing has been more life like in my experience.

The Mozart Grands have been the best thing have ever spent money on, bar none. I just wish I had a job and could complete my Vienna system. The time off has let me get intimate with my MGs.

Hehe, that has been my experience as well. Everytime I am talking to the wife on the phone, and I am watching a movie, she always asks "who is there, I hear people talking". She only ever asks when it's a females voice though.

Or when there is knocking, my son goes and checks the door, LOL.
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post #1103 of 3044 Old 08-01-2009, 04:23 PM
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I love it. I do the same thing all the time!
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post #1104 of 3044 Old 08-06-2009, 04:37 PM
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Are there certain VA speakers you would not risk buying used? That is, which (if any) of the following is essential to buy brand new?

Beethoven Baby Grands
Maestro Center
Waltz grands

Or what about the rel R305 and B3? or primare sp32 and a30.5?

Thanks!
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post #1105 of 3044 Old 08-06-2009, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclabruins View Post

Are there certain VA speakers you would not risk buying used? That is, which (if any) of the following is essential to buy brand new?

Beethoven Baby Grands
Maestro Center
Waltz grands

Or what about the rel R305 and B3? or primare sp32 and a30.5?

Thanks!

Speakers although not easy to design, are pretty simple devices and most are made to last for many, many years (10 minimum), so as long as they haven't been overdriven and the shipping guys don't throw them off the truck, you should be fine buying used. As always look for good feedback on the seller, and insure all shipments, but other than that I can't think of any speakers that would have special conditions for buying used.
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post #1106 of 3044 Old 08-06-2009, 09:46 PM
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Cool, thanks Tim
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post #1107 of 3044 Old 08-06-2009, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclabruins View Post

Cool, thanks Tim

Glad to help.

I guess I should mention that older speakers were subject to "surround rot" and if the cones are paper, humidity can be an issue, but now that everyone uses rubber for the surround and plastic or metal cones, these are no longer issues.
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post #1108 of 3044 Old 08-07-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclabruins View Post

Are there certain VA speakers you would not risk buying used? That is, which (if any) of the following is essential to buy brand new?

Beethoven Baby Grands
Maestro Center
Waltz grands

Or what about the rel R305 and B3? or primare sp32 and a30.5?

Thanks!

Outside of not knowing how the previous owner treated their gear, you should be aware the Sumiko will not honor the factory warantee past the first owner. The average driver replacement will set you back at least $200, which will normally be covered under the factory warranty.

I believe that the warranty situation is the same for Primare. Also, like most things, Primare makes subtle improvements to their products throughout production. The A30.5 has been in continuous production for over 10 years.

I'd strongly recommend buying new. With the special pricing on VA right now, an already excellent deal is made even better.

Who did you end up working with at MAV Santa Monica?
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post #1109 of 3044 Old 08-07-2009, 10:56 PM
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My room sucks. The placement of my speakers is nowhere near ideal as they need to be about 10" from the front wall and the right speaker is about a foot from the sidewall. I wondered to the basement today to get the port plugs from the box. After inserting the plugs I was SHOCKED!

The bass I was getting was extreme. It didn't sound bloated, just over powering. The mids and highs were being killed by the bass. After inserting the plugs everything was controlled and very even. I have always been a sealed type of person and listening to the Mozart Grands this way has really improved the overall sound.

I cannot suggest enough trying this out if your room is not ideal for placement. BigRed you come to mind as I have seen your setup and you too have the fronts very close to the walls. You have the benefit of the MFW-15 which would pick up the slack in the low end department.

I don't miss the very deep bass as the performance is still extraordinary and sounds much more natural. Curious what Dave thinks about the plugs and when they should be used.

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post #1110 of 3044 Old 08-08-2009, 04:23 AM
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Hi
Could someone tell me if it is a clever way to remove the tweeter in an Oratorio? I've just bought one with a blown tweeter and a lot of scuff marks so I need to replace the tweeter and repaint the cabinet. The tweeter is glued to the cabinet with silicone. I've tried to use a stanley knife to cut it loose, but the gap between the tweeter and the cabinet is to narrow. At the moment I have no idea of how to loosen it, so if anyone here has a (magic) trick up their sleeve I would really appreciate it.

- Ragnar
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