The *OFFICIAL* Vienna Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 3072 Old 01-17-2008, 05:34 AM
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Any thoughts on Rotel? Also seems to be some reasonable prices on used amps.
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post #122 of 3072 Old 01-17-2008, 07:28 PM
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I've never heard Rotel on the Mozarts or any VA speaker.
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post #123 of 3072 Old 01-17-2008, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rick View Post

hotel96- I didn't think vienna made a 6ohm speaker, are you sure its 6ohms?

I just purchase the Theatro and it is rated at 6ohms.
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post #124 of 3072 Old 01-18-2008, 12:10 AM
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Been looking at speakers and have been wanting a surround system. I am looking along the lines of doing separates, and was wondering if the VA's would pair up well with Primare electronics? I really am interested more in HT than critical music listening and saw on sumiko's website that Primare does not have HDMI connectivity. Although, I heard they will release some soon, but do we know an approximate time? If you guys were looking at a Vienna/Primare/REL set up, which would you choose if your focus was HT 65% and music 35%?
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post #125 of 3072 Old 01-18-2008, 02:20 AM
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Opinions on the Oratorio vs the maestro center?
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post #126 of 3072 Old 01-18-2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisHeirness23 View Post

Been looking at speakers and have been wanting a surround system. I am looking along the lines of doing separates, and was wondering if the VA's would pair up well with Primare electronics? I really am interested more in HT than critical music listening and saw on sumiko's website that Primare does not have HDMI connectivity. Although, I heard they will release some soon, but do we know an approximate time? If you guys were looking at a Vienna/Primare/REL set up, which would you choose if your focus was HT 65% and music 35%?

I have heard good things about "soon" from primare. I don't know a real date yet but I would hold off a bit and wait if you can as not many pre-pro's handle HDMI to its full ability yet (i think only 2 or 3 do at the most right now...). I will say that the current primare stuff sounds great for both music and HT use but it is limited in the bells and whistles department. I really do like the a30.5 amplifier


Also, the theatro is rated at 6ohms, I somehow forgot about this speaker! I also remember the mahler is rated at about 6 ohms too. I don't think i will ever fully understand these ratings or why they come about however
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post #127 of 3072 Old 01-18-2008, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by the rick View Post

I have heard good things about "soon" from primare. I don't know a real date yet but I would hold off a bit and wait if you can as not many pre-pro's handle HDMI to its full ability yet (i think only 2 or 3 do at the most right now...). I will say that the current primare stuff sounds great for both music and HT use but it is limited in the bells and whistles department. I really do like the a30.5 amplifier


Also, the theatro is rated at 6ohms, I somehow forgot about this speaker! I also remember the mahler is rated at about 6 ohms too. I don't think i will ever fully understand these ratings or why they come about however

Thanks for the quick reply. Do you have any reccomendations as far as which Vienna Acoustic speakers would really provide an incredible listening experience? I was just told to look into them, but would like to know which speakers they have do the best job.
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post #128 of 3072 Old 01-18-2008, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HisHeirness23 View Post

Thanks for the quick reply. Do you have any reccomendations as far as which Vienna Acoustic speakers would really provide an incredible listening experience? I was just told to look into them, but would like to know which speakers they have do the best job.

I really like all three lines, I currently work for a place that sells the grand and schonberg lineup, both are great. I would just go to sumikoaudio.net and find a dealer in your area to give them a whirl if you are interested, i'm sure one is fairly close
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post #129 of 3072 Old 01-19-2008, 10:17 AM
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After extended listening, my new Strauss speakers are really lacking in the bass region. I have tried moving them all around in the room and, while using low frequency test tones, have even tried locating them in areas of maximum bass reinforcement with minimal improvement. The deficient bass is common to both speakers and they are phased properly, with the side bass speakers firing “outward” as suggested in the manual for maximum bass.

I understand that placement of these speakers is very important, but the bass drivers should behave the same as any other cone woofers (unless the laws of physics have been somehow suspended in my listening room). The room is large and also houses my home theater system and has adequate absorption. The corner-mounted pair of Carver Signature subs used for the home theater pump out plenty of bass and the response seems reasonably uniform.

I have not checked my new McIntosh MC 275 power amp and C2200 control amp, other than verifying the settings are correct, trying multiple sources and operating within the MC275’s rating. The sound is really great above about 100 Hz. I am stumped! Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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post #130 of 3072 Old 01-19-2008, 08:18 PM
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cappy- have you talked to your dealer about proper setup? I know you have tried moving them all around but some rooms in my experience take LOTS of careful work to get speakers to perform as they should. I have a pair of the original sonus faber grand pianos that take 2-3 hours each time i have moved with a second person to get them to make a reasonable amount of bass. When I find that sweet spot, the sound is magical but in the rest of most of the rooms i've have them in, the sound is flat and lifeless until i've spent hours setting them up

I cant imagine a dealer of the strauss not offering a good setup, especially if you bought a mac setup from them! thats a good sale.
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post #131 of 3072 Old 01-20-2008, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by the rick View Post

cappy- have you talked to your dealer about proper setup? I know you have tried moving them all around but some rooms in my experience take LOTS of careful work to get speakers to perform as they should. I have a pair of the original sonus faber grand pianos that take 2-3 hours each time i have moved with a second person to get them to make a reasonable amount of bass. When I find that sweet spot, the sound is magical but in the rest of most of the rooms i've have them in, the sound is flat and lifeless until i've spent hours setting them up

I cant imagine a dealer of the strauss not offering a good setup, especially if you bought a mac setup from them! thats a good sale.

Thanks for input, Rick. These speakers had been in stock for several years and I don't think the dealer has much experience with them, and I doubt the dealer ever attended the VA training session, but I can ask. I bought the Mac equipment from another dealer.

Within reason, I have moved the speakers all around in available space in the room in small increments. Short of going to an optimization approach using my sound level meter and a low frequency tone, I don't know how to do a better job of tweaking. Is there something posted on the Internet, outlining VA's approach to locating the speakers, or is this some sort of confidential process?
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post #132 of 3072 Old 01-20-2008, 09:31 AM
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i dont know about it being confidential but its a 3 day lesson at sumiko in northern california, if I just read it, i would have never gotten it to be honest.

I would call sumiko and see if the rep to your area could come out (not sure what/if you'd have to pay...its probably worth at least *some* money!) or at least offer setup tips etc.
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post #133 of 3072 Old 01-20-2008, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cappy1 View Post

Within reason, I have moved the speakers all around in available space in the room in small increments. Short of going to an optimization approach using my sound level meter and a low frequency tone, I don't know how to do a better job of tweaking.

I had struggled with my Beethoven Concert Grands at first, but once I found the optimal placement, I've been very pleased with the level of bass I'm getting.
I also have about 35-45 hours on my BCG now, and it feels like I'm getting better bass extension.

FYI, I have 3 feet from the back wall, 2 feet from the side wall, speakers are 7.5 feet apart, and they're facing directly forward (no toe-in).
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post #134 of 3072 Old 01-21-2008, 10:40 AM
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How much power is too much power for the Mozart Grands? When looking for an amp how many watts should it have to drive these speakers and have the occasional rock concert in my living room?
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post #135 of 3072 Old 01-21-2008, 12:33 PM
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How much power is too much power for the Mozart Grands? When looking for an amp how many watts should it have to drive these speakers and have the occasional rock concert in my living room?


Your speakers have a sensitivity rating of 90db, meaning that it will take 1 watt to drive them to 90db at 1 Khz at a distance of 1 meter. The maximum recommended power is 200 Watts, according to VA.

To get some idea on how much power is required, here are the general guidelines: Every 3db more requires twice as much power, so for your speakers the following would apply: 2 Watts for 93db, 4 watts for 96db....and 128 Watts for 111db, which is rock concert level. Of course, this is at a distance of 1 meter from the speaker, so going to the max recommended power (200 Watts) might be a wise choice if you really want these SPL's.
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post #136 of 3072 Old 01-21-2008, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cappy1 View Post

Your speakers have a sensitivity rating of 90db, meaning that it will take 1 watt to drive them to 90db at 1 Khz at a distance of 1 meter. The maximum recommended power is 200 Watts, according to VA.

To get some idea on how much power is required, here are the general guidelines: Every 3db more requires twice as much power, so for your speakers the following would apply: 2 Watts for 93db, 4 watts for 96db....and 128 Watts for 111db, which is rock concert level. Of course, this is at a distance of 1 meter from the speaker, so going to the max recommended power (200 Watts) might be a wise choice if you really want these SPL's.

How about if I will be sitting at a distance of about 8 to 10 feet or 3 to 4 meters. I am looking at amps rated from 200w up to possibly 350w. Will this be too much?
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post #137 of 3072 Old 01-21-2008, 02:53 PM
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How about if I will be sitting at a distance of about 8 to 10 feet or 3 to 4 meters. I am looking at amps rated from 200w up to possibly 350w. Will this be too much?

This is hard to say since it depends upon how the power is being delivered over time. Musical peaks of high wattage may be OK with a 350 Watt amp since the power is delivered for a short period of time. But a sustained 350 Watt output/channel at rock concert level may well melt the voice coils if the speakers are rated at 200 Watts max. I guess you could put a fuse in the circuit to protect the speakers, but that series resistance may impact the sound and may really be frowned upon by high-end audiophiles.
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post #138 of 3072 Old 01-21-2008, 03:01 PM
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If the volume is not turned up and is at reasonable listening levels will all 350w still be output to the speakers though? What about louder levels?
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post #139 of 3072 Old 01-21-2008, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jlafrenz View Post

If the volume is not turned up and is at reasonable listening levels will all 350w still be output to the speakers though? What about louder levels?

No, the rated power has nothing to do with what is being output to the speakers. For a given volume level, say 100db, the speakers may require only 30 Watts, so that is all that will be delivered, whether you have a 30 Watt or 350 Watt amp.

I think your best bet would be to go to your VA dealer and have him hook up several amps of different power ratings and make a decision based upon what you hear. Buy a sound level meter fro Radio Shack if you want to see how loud the music is playing. I think you will be very surprised at how loud a 200 Watt amp will sound. Trying to whip the problem on paper is impossible...too many variables.
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post #140 of 3072 Old 01-21-2008, 11:41 PM
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jlafrenz- i often sell people a b&k 125wpc (8ohm rating) x2 stereo amp to go with just about any vienna speakers and it works well and doesn't ever. It's rated at: Power Rating 185@ 4 Ω which is what most vienna's run at. It seems to keep up in every application i've used it in for years now

What specific amplifiers are you looking at?
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post #141 of 3072 Old 01-22-2008, 08:01 AM
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jlafrenz- i often sell people a b&k 125wpc (8ohm rating) x2 stereo amp to go with just about any vienna speakers and it works well and doesn't ever. It's rated at: Power Rating 185@ 4 Ω which is what most vienna's run at. It seems to keep up in every application i've used it in for years now

What specific amplifiers are you looking at?

I have been looking at the Emotiva lineup- LPA-1 IPS-1 or the new XPA-5, Rotel RMB-1075, and a couple of B&K (sorry didn't write down model numbers).
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post #142 of 3072 Old 01-23-2008, 06:18 PM
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What crossover point is everyone using with their Vienna's? More specifically the Mozarts.
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post #143 of 3072 Old 01-24-2008, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimindcontrol View Post

I would use the Oratorio center if you buy the Strauss. The reference line uses different drivers than the grand line so using the maestro with the strauss will not have a seamless transition in the front stage. Also, the Oratorio uses much larger drivers than the maestro and is designed to "keep up" with the strauss/mahler. I realize its a dramatic difference in price but its also a dramatic difference in performance.

I have extremely limited experience with Dynaudio so your on your own

Went with the Oratorio center speaker! Picking it up this tuesday.

Now I'm on to deciding between the strauss or mahler

Tbh I think the Strauss will fit my decor best, the mahler being just a tad to big i think. There's also a price difference to consider obviously.

Havning read all sorts of various comments, it's my impressions that the bass from the strauss can be hard to integrate into the room. However I'll most likely cross over at 40-50hz so hopefully there won't be any nasty peaks above that. Below 40-50hz my Behringer will EQ my sub, which works really well in my current setup.
In the average size room, often there's a nasty peack between 30-40hz.
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post #144 of 3072 Old 01-25-2008, 03:43 PM
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I am a new member of the club.

Just purchased a set of BEETHOVEN Concert Grand in maple. I am driving them with a Primare I30.

I was not looking to buy them specifically but once I heard them I knew I needed them.

Jim Burns

cheap does not mean value
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post #145 of 3072 Old 01-26-2008, 11:34 AM
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I am planning to power some Vienna Audios with a Denon 3808, until I learned Denon may not work well with 4 ohm speakers. I have a full set of Vienna Audios running on a Sony 5200ES without a problem. Should I risk it with the Denon? This will only be a small set up using Haydens in a HT set-up.

Opinions appreciated.
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post #146 of 3072 Old 01-26-2008, 01:33 PM
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I am planning to power some Vienna Audios with a Denon 3808, until I learned Denon may not work well with 4 ohm speakers. I have a full set of Vienna Audios running on a Sony 5200ES without a problem. Should I risk it with the Denon? This will only be a small set up using Haydens in a HT set-up.

Opinions appreciated.

Download the owner's manual from the Denon web site and look at page 10. It warns about using speaker with less than 8 ohms impedance. It says it may overheat when played at high volume levels for extended periods and the protection circuit may shut it down. It warns that if the protection circuit is activated again, the set may be damaged.

Facts are always better than opinions.
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post #147 of 3072 Old 01-26-2008, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cappy1 View Post

Download the owner's manual from the Denon web site and look at page 10. It warns about using speaker with less than 8 ohms impedance. It says it may overheat when played at high volume levels for extended periods and the protection circuit may shut it down. It warns that if the protection circuit is activated again, the set may be damaged.

Facts are always better than opinions.

Yes, I have read that. But I was sold both together. I better go back to the dealer. He probably did not know.
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post #148 of 3072 Old 01-26-2008, 02:29 PM
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I'm driving my Haydn Grands with a Pioneer Elite 94TXH which is also only rated down to 6 ohms. They sound great! Before purchasing I had checked with several knowledgeable sources and all said that there would be no problem. Yes - the 94TXH runs warm when really "blasting" the speakers ... but then it's a warm running receiver from what I've heard.
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post #149 of 3072 Old 01-26-2008, 02:55 PM
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I'm driving my Haydn Grands with a Pioneer Elite 94TXH which is also only rated down to 6 ohms. They sound great! Before purchasing I had checked with several knowledgeable sources and all said that there would be no problem. Yes - the 94TXH runs warm when really "blasting" the speakers ... but then it's a warm running receiver from what I've heard.

I guess one other choice is the RX-V3800BL by Yamaha. I am looking for the manual now to see if it works. Glad to know about the Pioneer. I know the SONY 5200ESs work because I set one up with 4 ohm option being very specific. A pain.

From FAQs on the Yamaha site:

Can I use 4 ohm speakers on my Yamaha AV receiver ?
Yes, many Yamaha AV receivers are stable down to, but not below 4 ohms. We recommend that you use only speakers with a minimum of 4 ohms. Also, please make sure that the impedance selector switch is set to the correct position as recommended by the owner's manual.
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post #150 of 3072 Old 01-27-2008, 07:23 AM
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Keep in mind that the nominal value of a speaker's impedance is not the lowest value that an amplifier may "see". Impedance is a frequency-dependent term, so you really need to look a plot of impedance vs. frequency to see how it behaves if you have a marginal situation in matching an amp to a speaker. For example a 4 ohm speaker may exhibit this nominal impedance at 40 Hz. If you go lower than 40 Hz, the impedance will drop below 3.5 ohms. In addition to the possibility of damaging the amplifier by creating large demands for current beyond its capability, the amplifier will start clipping once you exceed the capability of the power supply to provide the needed current.
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