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post #91 of 242 Old 06-20-2007, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

Do you have an idea what is different between the 68 series and the CM series in terms of drivers and design? The CM1 looks functionally identical to the 686 and the CMC looks suspiciously similar to the HTM62. I wonder how interchangeable they are as far as mixing and matching in a system

I can't tell, but I'm not sure if the new 600-series mid-range drivers employ "real", functional, vented phase plugs as the CM-Series drivers?
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/displa...rid=2285&sc=hf
I know this aids in power-handling capability.
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post #92 of 242 Old 06-20-2007, 03:45 PM
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batmon,

Yes, I think you must be confusing the terminology

There are sometimes four connectors on the back of the speakers, but you only need to use two of them. The other two are for biwiring which is completely unnecessary. Biwiring means each speaker has four connections, thus you would need 12 connections total + your sub connection. Biwiring means doubling up the connections, but it has no effect on the sound

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post #93 of 242 Old 06-20-2007, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgriel View Post

I'm not sure, but I think you are asking of there are 2 or 4 binding posts on the speakers?

Generally, extra binding posts on speakers are there for bi-wiring. Completely unnecessary imo, but many B&W speakers do support it.

But you are using confusing terminology - the number of "channels" means something different.

Bill

Sorry, I don't know much about this so maybe it is not called channels, I am not sure.

Basically my receiver has front "A" L/R and front "B" L/R. So this is the bi-wiring? So I only need one set of black/red wire for each B&W speaker. This is good so I don't have to change my existing wires.
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post #94 of 242 Old 06-20-2007, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batmon View Post

Sorry, I don't know much about this so maybe it is not called channels, I am not sure.

Basically my receiver has front "A" L/R and front "B" L/R. So this is the bi-wiring? So I only need one set of black/red wire for each B&W speaker. This is good so I don't have to change my existing wires.

Yes, if you removed the jumpers and connected the front speakers to both the front "A" and "B" outputs of your receiver, you'd simply be biwiring.

And yes, you only need one set of black/red wire per speaker to "mono"-wire them.

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post #95 of 242 Old 06-20-2007, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

batmon,

Yes, I think you must be confusing the terminology

There are sometimes four connectors on the back of the speakers, but you only need to use two of them. The other two are for biwiring which is completely unnecessary. Biwiring means each speaker has four connections, thus you would need 12 connections total + your sub connection. Biwiring means doubling up the connections, but it has no effect on the sound

Thank you. This is helpful!
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post #96 of 242 Old 06-20-2007, 07:12 PM
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I'm going to demo the 683 towers this Saturday on an Arcam 350 Receiver. I'll post my impressions soon after.

Cheers,

Joe
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post #97 of 242 Old 06-21-2007, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstitzlein@gmail View Post

I'm going to demo the 683 towers this Saturday on an Arcam 350 Receiver. I'll post my impressions soon after.

Cheers,

Joe

Let us know. I plan to purchase them to go with a denon 4308ci.

thanks in advance
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post #98 of 242 Old 06-21-2007, 10:23 PM
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I heard these at a dealer powered by some rotel separates. They were on a shelf that was above my head while i was sitting down and were spaced nearly ten feet apart against a wall with other speakers on them. I must say, the 685 is a very nice looking speaker. I was very excited that the dealer had them in stock and on display because I've been holding out for these before I purchased something new.

Anyhow, my brother and I both listened to them and were both disappointed. I've owned the 602 S3 (and the 704 for that matter) and I just couldn't 'dig' the 685 sound. Now I'm not sure if they were broken in, and certainly were not positioned correctly but as far i'm concerned the sound lacked 'realism'. It sounded almost veiled and dare I say, distorted or coloured. Now keep in mind I wanted to like these speakers.

Now the tweeter had less 'sizzle' and more 'refinement' a la CM series. I was hoping for this as I find many b&w speakers to be at first exciting but later fatiguing.

An interesting impression many of you will be annoyed by. Don't ignore the DM303s. These have been my 'backup' speakers for a long time and I'm never upset by them. I've even owned the 700 series and been highly annoyed by the tweeter which can only be tamed by room treatments and certain amps.

If you're really into vinyl, the new 600 series may be your cup of tea as I think vinyl has a more forward and brighter top end that sometimes needs tamed if you don't have a good phono stage or cartidge.

Anyhow, I just wanted to let you guys know I've heard the 685 and walked away sorely dissapointed by their uninvolving, layed back to the extreme, suck the life out of music sound. This was just a first observation, confirmed by my brother and also another customer.

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post #99 of 242 Old 06-22-2007, 05:12 AM
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hmm, interesting. The demo placement didn't seem very ideal though.
So the treble sounded less bright? Was the treble was *too* laid back?

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post #100 of 242 Old 06-22-2007, 01:13 PM
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He, in a bad room, just about any speaker will sound like total crap. No matter what they are driven with. Put em in a decent, if not a good room, and they might be like night and day.
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post #101 of 242 Old 06-22-2007, 01:58 PM
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Anyone know where I can get those speakers? Thanks.
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post #102 of 242 Old 06-23-2007, 06:59 PM
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I just got back from auditioning the B&W 683 with an Arcam 350 being driven by my rDock. I spent two hours with them in an acoustically treated room listening to everything from Marving Gaye to Erykah Badu to Jay Z Unplugged to Frank Sinatra. I auditioned them without a sub so that I could isolate the performance of the loudspeakers themselves.

The good news: These are really fun speakers. They have huge bass response that really kicks on rock. They are smokin' looking too. I mean god da*%, these are slick-soft touch surface, real wood panels, exquisite materials. There are some very good industrial designers at B&W.

The bad news: I auditioned these against a pair of Dali Ikon 6s. The Dalis have amazing, I mean AMAZING performance on vocals and strings. They are the clearest speakers I've heard, without getting bright. But they don't have the brunt of the B&Ws-but they have much more resolution. In comparison, the B&Ws seem muddled and confused.

So I went home with the Dalis. What is really nice about the Dalis is they have just enough bass for most music. They certainly tame music that is mastered with WAY too much LFE, like Erykah Badu or Common. They let the vocals and instruments shine through on music with too much bass. In these cases I hit the Stereo Direct mode on my Arcam to shut off the Sub.

For music where you want to get some oomph, like Dre, or Jay Z, or the Afghan Whigs, turn the Arcam to normal Stereo and the sub comes alive, and man you've got perfection.

I don't think you'd be disappointed in the B&Ws. They are really beautiful, and they sound fun. But if you want layering and vocal resolution, they may seem a bit muddy in comparison to an audiophile speaker like a Dali.

That's my 2¢
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post #103 of 242 Old 06-23-2007, 08:11 PM
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I waited for this speaker for months... finally arrived at my local dealer last week and I went in for a listen. I wont write a detailed review here because the way speakers sound is like the taste of wine and cigars, totally subjective, but I will say for my ears they lacked inspiration and I bought a pair of MA RS6s. Be sure to give these a listen but do lots of comparison shopping before you buy.

One more thing - I did not like the finish quality of the cabinet. I've seen $500/pair big box store speakers that look much better.
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post #104 of 242 Old 06-23-2007, 08:16 PM
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What dealer (where) did you go into and listen to them?

Quote:
Maybe someday in the future we will be able to quantify perceived Sound Quality .
(But not today....)

Earl Geddes Ph.D.
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post #105 of 242 Old 06-23-2007, 08:18 PM
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Home Theater Store in Austin, TX.
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post #106 of 242 Old 06-24-2007, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstitzlein@gmail View Post

*SNIP*They have huge bass response that really kicks on rock. *SNIP*

this is what i heard when i listened to the 600 series these are replacing, except my subjective take was fat, boomy uncontrolled bass that overwhelmed the rest of the FR. sounds to me like that's still the M.O. of the new 600 series.

it's a shame, really. i suppose big, overdone bass is what sells mid-fi speakers these days, but i think some manufacturers are beginning to see the light.

music is the best.
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post #107 of 242 Old 06-24-2007, 03:55 PM
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blackacex2,
too bad about the placement,
Quote:


They were on a shelf that was above my head while i was sitting down

IMO this is hardly the setup to harshly judge them (unless that's how you listen at home?) I'd really like to hear an opinion of the 685 or 686 when listened to from a more apropriate setup.

Thanks for the opinion though
Dan

Regards,
Dan
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post #108 of 242 Old 06-24-2007, 05:38 PM
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I don't think there could be but a handfull of dealers in the whole country that have even received them yet and I'm anxious to get a set myself. The 600 series was immensly popular and I'm hoping, seeing as how they are borrowing a fair bit from the 800 series, for improvement still.

Quote:
Maybe someday in the future we will be able to quantify perceived Sound Quality .
(But not today....)

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post #109 of 242 Old 06-25-2007, 02:24 PM
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The stork... I mean the UPS guy just dropped off my 685s, 686s and the HTM62.
No speaker stands with the shipment, but at least I got the important stuff.
Impressions to follow (as uneducated as they may be).

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post #110 of 242 Old 06-25-2007, 02:28 PM
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^ More pix please I have been dying to see these in real photos. Enjoy the sound.
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post #111 of 242 Old 06-25-2007, 02:42 PM
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Hey Congrats! It sure is nice when Christmas comes in June
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post #112 of 242 Old 06-25-2007, 10:15 PM
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Well,
Since my shipment didn't include my stands and my new speaker wire from Monoprice won't be here unit tomorrow, I was not able to properly set these puppies up.
I was able to give them a quick workout however propped up on the cardboard boxes.
Like I mentioned before, I am no expert able to discern between the subtle nuances of each and every speaker made. I'm not going to try and pretend I am an audiophile by giving you a uneducated opinion of the sound quality.
I can only tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that these speakers look great and they sound pretty good too. Of course you knew I was going to say that.
All kidding aside, I am thrilled at the performance of these units in my living room.
I am temporarily rigged up as a 2.1 system, so I first set up the 686s and disconnected the sub. These little bookshelves really sounded full and clear. I would be happy running these as my mains in a home theater setup. With my REL Q150e turned on, they were simply stunning.
The HTM62 is essentially two 686s sharing a tweeter. It should serve me well as my center.
Switching the 686s for the 685s was a real treat. After hooking them up, I found myself questioning the need for my sub for music. Much fuller and more forceful than the 686s. The amount of air blowing out of the front-firing flowports was a bit shocking. I was sitting on my couch at least ten feet away from the speakers and the puffs of air were rippling my tshirt. No exaggeration.
Anyway, I decided to see how far I could push them so I took my 100 watt Pioneer up to -20 and I could not believe the clarity even at that tremendous volume. I couldn't imagine the need to take it louder. This system is all I could have hoped for.
As far as fit and finish, the vinyl wrap is not my cup of tea. It looks like nice red cherry from three feet, but upon closer inspection it's just plain 'ol vinyl.
I feel that it may be easily scratched or torn during those inevitable bumps and dings. Other than the vinyl, the speakers look and feel incredible. Solidly built, with good heft. The soft touch face plate is amazing, the kevlar drivers with the concealed hardware, the diamond cut tweeters and dimpled flowports are very nice. The beefy gold plated mounting posts mean business as well. Truly beautiful pieces of equipment.
Sorry if I didn't give you all any good info. After all, a speaker is only as good as it sounds to you and how it makes you feel. I couldn't be happier with my purchase.
YMMV, as they say.
I'll submit more pics tomorrow. I can't get good light at night here.



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post #113 of 242 Old 06-26-2007, 01:27 AM
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wow, looks like the drivers do have actual vented phase plugs (not just a bullet-shaped plug glued onto the center of kevlar cones). The kevlar cone inner-diameter actually moves forward and backward while the phase-plug is stationary (supposedly dissapates heat better, allows for more optimal power-handling capability). At least I think that's what I'm seeing on the mains.
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post #114 of 242 Old 06-26-2007, 03:49 AM
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Can't say I'm suprised that others have opted for other speakers than the B&Ws... The RS6s and Dali Ikons of this world are really raising the bar in terms of sound quality and value for money. Can't help but feel that you're paying more for cabinet design than actual speaker performance.

Anyway, to those who do buy them, enjoy.

Cheers
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post #115 of 242 Old 06-26-2007, 04:45 AM
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Chris 11 said:
Quote:


Can't help but feel that you're paying more for cabinet design than actual speaker performance.

Well yes, they are very nice looking, and reputedly have 30% thicker cabinet walls than the S3 incarnation.

But then there is the FST midrange driver in the 683, and the first order crossover from midrange to tweeter with v/high quality German made Mundorf Gold series capacitor, and the redesigned tweeter with nautilus tube loading etc. in all the new range, so the drivers look to be very (above average) high quality as well.

They also measure well, and all up appear on paper at least to be a stonking good buy.

That those may prefer something else is a given, unless audiophiles can arrive at some concensus of objectivity as regards what is not just 'good' or 'nice' or 'I prefer it' sound, but sound that is truly Hifi, that is as close to the original source material as possible measured in an objective manner.

Very hard to do, unless perhaps you replicate what the late John Bowers did in the early days of B&W, and A/B'd his speakers not to competing products, but to actual live music, recorded live and then played back then and there, on his speakers, so truly live v's 'recorded' sound.

Now that IS a proper A/B test IMHO.

It will be very interesting to read of further owner impressions, and professional reviews as these speakers start to hit the market in 'force'.

Best Regards

Jon...

HiFi elitism and quality musical reproduction is not the same thing....
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post #116 of 242 Old 06-26-2007, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisII View Post

Can't say I'm suprised that others have opted for other speakers than the B&Ws... The RS6s and Dali Ikons of this world are really raising the bar in terms of sound quality and value for money. Can't help but feel that you're paying more for cabinet design than actual speaker performance.

Anyway, to those who do buy them, enjoy.

Cheers

Sure you have your favorites that you feel are better, but I bought what I thought was the best sounding minimonitor at its price which turned out to a B&W, and that including listening to the Monitor Audio line of speakers (no Dali dealers near here though) and most of the usual suspects. So there is no one right answer to the question of what is "better sounding/better value".

Cabinet design is a very important factor, that's why the bigger manufacturers do vibration analysis and computer modelling to design their cabinets. For many people, the finish does matter as you don't want a cheap looking box in a room that has nice solid maple/mahogony wood furniture

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post #117 of 242 Old 06-26-2007, 05:51 AM
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Congrats on the new speakers SkidPalace. They look cool. Hopefully, you'll spend time actually enjoying and listening to them rather than reading about speakers and debating them (which seems to be the pasttime of too many people here )
That was what this is all about.

After reading about all the trashing B&W's take in various threads, I had to go back and listen to them again just to make sure I wasn't losing my mind. Nope, they are real and they are magnificent

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post #118 of 242 Old 06-26-2007, 06:42 AM
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Quote:


Can't help but feel that you're paying more for cabinet design than actual speaker performance.

Quote:


Well yes, they are very nice looking, and reputedly have 30% thicker cabinet walls than the S3 incarnation.

They are made in Rotel's own factory in China now , from what I here , so those that think getting a cabinet made anywhere else means it costs to much can feel better now.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #119 of 242 Old 06-26-2007, 01:34 PM
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I heard from my store here that they tried the 685's with a good-sized amp, it they just upped, and upped, and upped the power. (And he's only an extra at the store and a hifi-nerd foremost. :P ) The 685's seemed to be just as effect-hungry as some other B&W speakers. I haven't actually tried mine as a stereo pair, just put em up at the back wall as the 6th channel in my HT-system. But then, i have a pair of 703's as fronts so. But i must say that the black ash version of the 685 is pretty decent. Not as good as the 700-series, but its not that cheap looking at all.
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post #120 of 242 Old 06-26-2007, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

After reading about all the trashing B&W's take in various threads, I had to go back and listen to them again just to make sure I wasn't losing my mind. Nope, they are real and they are magnificent

how would you compare them to the CM-Series? A distingiushable difference?
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