Aerial Acoustics Owners Thread - Page 61 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1801 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
^^ Obviously this is getting rather ugly; and I will continue to defend Craig...not blindly, but where I feel it is just. In that vein, I will say the following:

1) I think he knows, he's coming off...looking rather bad, in the eyes of some. I don't think he cares...or that is how much he cares; because he's trying to expose something, he thinks is important. Many of you are like "we knew/knew the business was slimy"...so there's no great revelation here. And that's fine for you; but I think there are those who don't...and that's who Craig is trying to reach (admittedly, as well as vent his own frustrations).

2) I see a lot of people, saying MK is this...and MK is that. I don't know the man...but I know what I've read, from other customers (not just Craig). That the AA Facebook page, clearly states "made in the USA"; and that when asked directly, MK has either stated the cabinets were made in the USA...or simply misdirected and/or did not answer the question.

That doesn't sound like an "honest mistake" to me. People are losing sight of the real point: it's not is Chinese manufacturing inferior, superior, or what have you; and it's not are the speakers well-made, and sound-good. It's...is your vendor, being honest with you. If he really didn't think it mattered, why not say "made in China"...or "assembled in the USA"? And...why hasn't he responded??
Okay...but I'm still awaiting word on why Craig didn't have a problem selling AA products which were marked "Made in the USA" on the previous rendition of speakers...with cabs made in Denmark, tweeter in Germany, etc. I think it does indeed matter to Craig that the cabs were made in China and this is not a USA labeling issue. Perhaps Craig just had a come to Jesus moment and is now himself coming clean. I guess we won't know unless he responds.

I don't know MK and I don't know Craig. But this issue is not one for public display unless Craig has himself contacted the FTC and gotten their interpretation of the law (and not his or anyone else'sopinion of it). So, like it or not, it does seem to come off as a business relationship turned sour.

You and Craig are asserting that AA has broken the law, thereby demeaning the company. If it's true, the FTC should come down hard on AA. If it's not true, and AA is operating withing the FTC guidelines, then it wouldn't be inappropriate for MK to bring suit against both of you for libel.

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post #1802 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post
Okay...but I'm still awaiting word on why Craig didn't have a problem selling AA products which were marked "Made in the USA" on the previous rendition of speakers...with cabs made in Denmark, tweeter in Germany, etc. I think it does indeed matter to Craig that the cabs were made in China and this is not a USA labeling issue. Perhaps Craig just had a come to Jesus moment and is now himself coming clean. I guess we won't know unless he responds.

I don't know MK and I don't know Craig. But this issue is not one for public display unless Craig has himself contacted the FTC and gotten their interpretation of the law (and not his or anyone else'sopinion of it). So, like it or not, it does seem to come off as a business relationship turned sour.

You and Craig are asserting that AA has broken the law, thereby demeaning the company. If it's true, the FTC should come down hard on AA. If it's not true, and AA is operating withing the FTC guidelines, then it wouldn't be inappropriate for MK to bring suit against both of you for libel.
Well first of all...I haven't done jack, in the way of libel. I'm sure if I'd said anything that even came close, the mods would have had something to say about it first. All I've done, is clarify Craig's remarks...defend him, where I see fit; express my own views on the subject, and convey what I've read elsewhere on the subject. In fact...if you look at my posts, you'll see I've NEVER typed the letters FTC; because I'm not a dealer, and don't really know what their rules are. AFAIC, this debate is more held to the court of public opinion.

Second of all...I can understand, why Craig might (and that's not to say he did know the cabinets were made in Denmark; just if he did) have more of a problem with China, versus Denmark. For example...and this argument could be made with any number of things; but I'll go wine, for instance. Let's say the bottle was label "made in Italy". But you did some investigation, and found out...some of the grapes came from outsourced vineyards in France. OK...maybe some mistruth; but I'll take some French grapes in my wine most days. Now...let's say those outsourced grapes, were from Romania? Is that a little different??

For me it is; and again...I am on record, as not having a problem with Chinese products. But some do...and I am aware of that; whereas to my knowledge, NO ONE...has a problem with woodworking from Denmark. Just because I don't care about speakers made in China...and maybe you don't care about speakers made in China; doesn't mean no one cares. In fact, I think Craig has made it clear...from very early on; that he has had complaints. Complaints that may or may not have created financial impact for him...and then in turn, when he went to the manufacture (which any dealer would do); he felt the issue was mishandled.

I don't see what's so hard to understand; but I guess it just has to do with what POV you share.

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post #1803 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
Well first of all...I haven't done jack, in the way of libel. I'm sure if I'd said anything that even came close, the mods would have had something to say about it first. All I've done, is clarify Craig's remarks...defend him, where I see fit; express my own views on the subject, and convey what I've read elsewhere on the subject. In fact...if you look at my posts, you'll see I've NEVER typed the letters FTC; because I'm not a dealer, and don't really know what their rules are. AFAIC, this debate is more held to the court of public opinion.

Second of all...I can understand, why Craig might (and that's not to say he did know the cabinets were made in Denmark; just if he did) have more of a problem with China, versus Denmark. For example...and this argument could be made with any number of things; but I'll go wine, for instance. Let's say the bottle was label "made in Italy". But you did some investigation, and found out...some of the grapes came from outsourced vineyards in France. OK...maybe some mistruth; but I'll take some French grapes in my wine most days. Now...let's say those outsourced grapes, were from Romania? Is that a little different??

For me it is; and again...I am on record, as not having a problem with Chinese products. But some do...and I am aware of that; whereas to my knowledge, NO ONE...has a problem with woodworking from Denmark. Just because I don't care about speakers made in China...and maybe you don't care about speakers made in China; doesn't mean no one cares. In fact, I think Craig has made it clear...from very early on; that he has had complaints. Complaints that may or may not have created financial impact for him...and then in turn, when he went to the manufacture (which any dealer would do); he felt the issue was mishandled.

I don't see what's so hard to understand; but I guess it just has to do with what POV you share.
The only point of view I have is that this issue should not be discussed on this forum UNLESS Craig has confirmation from the FTC that AA broke the law. The rest is opinionated chaff.
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post #1804 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
That the AA Facebook page, clearly states "made in the USA"; and that when asked directly, MK has either stated the cabinets were made in the USA...or simply misdirected and/or did not answer the question.
That doesn't sound like an "honest mistake" to me.
And this doesn't sound like like a (potentially) libelous statement to you?

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post #1805 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 08:54 AM
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Exclamation

Well VGI sold 7T's from the start and he was telling customers haw great the speakers are. The fact the cabinets were made in China was no secret. When the 7T's came out MK had a demo show at Audio Video Therapy in NH. He gave a detailed description of the speaker. Part by part where it came from and how it was built. This included mentioning the cabinet was built in China. I asked him why and he stated if it was done in Denmark it would add $3000 to the cost and he wanted to keep the price at a certain price range. Something is going on between these 2 people and it's not labeling. Dig deeper and you'll find the truth.
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post #1806 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
Second of all...I can understand, why Craig might (and that's not to say he did know the cabinets were made in Denmark; just if he did) have more of a problem with China, versus Denmark. For example...and this argument could be made with any number of things; but I'll go wine, for instance. Let's say the bottle was label "made in Italy". But you did some investigation, and found out...some of the grapes came from outsourced vineyards in France. OK...maybe some mistruth; but I'll take some French grapes in my wine most days. Now...let's say those outsourced grapes, were from Romania? Is that a little different??
You have commented in the other thread, so I have to assume you read it. He clearly indicates he was BFF with Mike Kelley and waxed poetic about the Danish wood working. There is no "might" in this discussion. He then gives examples of Chinese wood working and the toxic dangerous glues and what not.

It is clear in the other thread he has an issue with Chinese wood versus Danish wood. If the label says "Made In USA" but the wood is from Denmark, that is ok but not if the wood came from China? The issue should have been that the label is fraudulent. But from your analogy and CGI's rant, the real issue is the country the wood (or wine) came from more than the false label.

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post #1807 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 09:52 AM
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I've talked to MK several times and he never told me Aerial cabinets were made in the U.S. He did say, "all Aerial Speakers were assembled in the U.S. and the cabinets were sourced from China." If Craig had a problem with Aerial he sure didn't mention it to me when he went on and on about how great the 7Ts were.
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post #1808 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post
And this doesn't sound like like a (potentially) libelous statement to you?
I'm no lawyer; but at the very least, don't truncate my statement:

I don't know the man...but I know what I've read, from other customers (not just Craig). That the AA Facebook page, clearly states "made in the USA"; and that when asked directly, MK has either stated the cabinets were made in the USA...or simply misdirected and/or did not answer the question.

That doesn't sound like an "honest mistake" to me.

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post #1809 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post
I'm no lawyer; but at the very least, don't truncate my statement:

I don't know the man...but I know what I've read, from other customers (not just Craig). That the AA Facebook page, clearly states "made in the USA"; and that when asked directly, MK has either stated the cabinets were made in the USA...or simply misdirected and/or did not answer the question.

That doesn't sound like an "honest mistake" to me.
I currently have 7Ts that I purchased from Craig. I talked to MK yesterday and HE HAD NO PROBLEM TELLING ME WHERE THE CABINETS WERE MADE, IN CHINA! So, at least in my case your statement isn't true. Before this controversy began, I talked to him over a year ago and he told me the cabinets were made in China, but the speakers were assembled in the U.S. I personally don't care were they are made, I care about the quality of construction and the sound. As far as I can see and hear both are great to me! Look, I'm retired Air Force and a teacher, and would love for everything to be 100% manufactured in the U.S, but that's not reality.
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post #1810 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 01:08 PM
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Exclamation

Aerial dropped Theater Max 6 months ago. There's has to be a specific reason as to why. Bottom line it wasn't about labels or cabinets made in China. That's just a smoke screen. Soon we'll get the whole picture.

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post #1811 of 1812 Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM
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A quick google search for aerial acoustics took me to the 2012 Stereophile review of the 7T and you can read it very clear the label under the terminals did say MADE IN USA

Another quick google search for FTC, made in usa policy and I find this

What factors does the Commission consider to determine whether a product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.?
The product’s final assembly or processing must take place in the U.S. The Commission then considers other factors, including how much of the product’s total manufacturing costs can be assigned to U.S. parts and processing, and how far removed any foreign content is from the finished product. In some instances, only a small portion of the total manufacturing costs are attributable to foreign processing, but that processing represents a significant amount of the product’s overall processing. The same could be true for some foreign parts. In these cases, the foreign content (processing or parts) is more than negligible, and, as a result, unqualified claims are inappropriate.

Example: A company produces propane barbecue grills at a plant in Nevada. The product’s major components include the gas valve, burner and aluminum housing, each of which is made in the U.S. The grill’s knobs and tubing are imported from Mexico. An unqualified Made in USA claim is not likely to be deceptive because the knobs and tubing make up a negligible portion of the product’s total manufacturing costs and are insignificant parts of the final product.

Example: A table lamp is assembled in the U.S. from American-made brass, an American-made Tiffany-style lampshade, and an imported base. The base accounts for a small percent of the total cost of making the lamp. An unqualified Made in USA claim is deceptive for two reasons: The base is not far enough removed in the manufacturing process from the finished product to be of little consequence and it is a significant part of the final product.

I posted on another thread that my opinion is that I could care less about where the cabinets came from as long as the quality is there
That been said, I would like to see AA change their label from made in usa to something like designed, engineered and assembled in USA so they won't have this cloud hanging over their head and can focus on making quality speakers
IMO, change the label should not affect how customer perceive AA speakers because from all I read, their speakers and cabinets are still 1st rated regardless where the cabinets came from

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post #1812 of 1812 Old Today, 10:29 PM
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