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post #571 of 585 Old 07-10-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
Interesting. Those are the very same sound goals I have for my next speakers. Desired sound qualities I'll add to yours are open, uncompressed, and a sense of ease of dynamics. I had thought of Legacy in those regards, but it sounds like you feel JTR is better in these price ranges.
The Aeries is very open and ambient sounding, no doubt thanks to them being dipole. It's pretty intoxicating.

The JTRs are kind of the opposite, with much more controlled directivity, you get more clarity on the recording, and hear less of the ambiance of your room. I like that, but some people prefer a more ambient sound. IMO, the JTRs benefit from wider placement and more toe in than conventional speakers. This gives you a nice wide soundstage without relying on wall reflections. The JTRs are still intoxicating, just different. The directivity could be a problem if you have wide seating outside the 60 degree horn.

The Focus SEs behave like conventional speakers.

Of course, if you need in-walls, those silhouettes are probably very solid as in-walls. I'd love to have them in a living room. For a dedicated listening room, where you want world class sound, the JTRs or Aeris are probably better suited.

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post #572 of 585 Old 07-10-2016, 11:58 AM
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Thanks. I auditioned the Triton Two+ at Audio Systems for a good bit while I was looking for floodstanders. Enjoyed them a lot, but the mids didn't blow me away.
Yeah. The mids on the Aeris and 3-way JTRs are exceptional. I agree that they are a weak point of the Golden Ears. I felt they were also a weak point of the Focus SEs.
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post #573 of 585 Old 07-10-2016, 01:38 PM
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The Aeries is very open and ambient sounding, no doubt thanks to them being dipole. It's pretty intoxicating.

The JTRs are kind of the opposite, with much more controlled directivity, you get more clarity on the recording, and hear less of the ambiance of your room.
I like that, but some people prefer a more ambient sound. IMO, the JTRs benefit from wider placement and more toe in than conventional speakers. This gives you a nice wide soundstage without relying on wall reflections. The JTRs are still intoxicating, just different. The directivity could be a problem if you have wide seating outside the 90 degree horn.

The Focus SEs behave like conventional speakers.

Of course, if you need in-walls, those silhouettes are probably very solid as in-walls. I'd love to have them in a living room. For a dedicated listening room, where you want world class sound, the JTRs or Aeris are probably better suited.
Yeah, I'd think the Aeris would need a larger space, which I do not have, with room to "breathe". I need an "all-around" speaker that will perform very well in a typical family room setting. This is because I desire very good, if not excellent, performance for both movies and music.

As you have chosen JTR for a dedicated home theater setting, I have no doubt they are great for that purpose, but I am not so sure about for music, such as classical, jazz, and rock. I have always felt my Legacy Signature IIs strike a good balance in that way, but it does seem like there is a fair bit of mid-range cabinet resonance which doesn't help with the intelligibility of dialogue in movies. And, as Legacy and other manufacturers have much improved the quality of components such as capacitors over the years, I feel much better overall sound quality is likely to be found in the newest models.

One issue I have with the Signature IIs is that they are not as dynamic as one would think, especially considering that I am powering them with a Krell CX400 power amp. Sure, they will get really loud if you just crank up the volume, but I don't get the sense of natural dynamics on things like drum shots and orchestral crescendos. IOW, I do not get that "slam" that I have heard from other speakers at many demos.

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post #574 of 585 Old 07-10-2016, 02:23 PM
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Yeah, I'd think the Aeris would need a larger space, which I do not have, with room to "breathe". I need an "all-around" speaker that will perform very well in a typical family room setting. This is because I desire very good, if not excellent, performance for both movies and music.

As you have chosen JTR for a dedicated home theater setting, I have no doubt they are great for that purpose, but I am not so sure about for music, such as classical, jazz, and rock. I have always felt my Legacy Signature IIs strike a good balance in that way, but it does seem like there is a fair bit of mid-range cabinet resonance which doesn't help with the intelligibility of dialogue in movies. And, as Legacy and other manufacturers have much improved the quality of components such as capacitors over the years, I feel much better overall sound quality is likely to be found in the newest models.

One issue I have with the Signature IIs is that they are not as dynamic as one would think, especially considering that I am powering them with a Krell CX400 power amp. Sure, they will get really loud if you just crank up the volume, but I don't get the sense of natural dynamics on things like drum shots and orchestral crescendos. IOW, I do not get that "slam" that I have heard from other speakers at many demos.
The JTRs are also spectacular for music. In particular, they really deliver excitement, energy, and impact - all without fatigue or hashness. I've often scratched my head how audiophile speakers can sound great for acoustic stuff and vocals, but sound dull for rock, electronic, dance, etc. that sounded fine in low-fi systems. I used to think that they were just too revealing for bad recordings. Then I heard AMTs, which did better, then JTRs, which did incredible with all these genres that sounded terrible on audiophile speakers. And they sound equally incredible for classical, jazz, vocals, and the usual audiophile materials. Movies, too. It turns out that this is a common eureka for people who hear highly dynamic speakers - especially the subset of them that are also high fidelity (i.e. JTR, Seaton, Danley).

Speakers with higher directivity don't need room to breathe. You do have to consider the seating area and angles for a living room. The directivity does make a huge improvement with vocal intelligibility. You notice that right away.

If you want to be able to have a party where people can walk around a room filled with sound, very wide directivity is the way to go. On the other hand, to get maximum clarity for a few seats, narrow directivity can work great, even moreso in an untreated room. I don't know where you stand with that or if you'd prefer a more ambient sound, but for the rest of what you've said the JTR 210s are probably your ideal speakers.
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post #575 of 585 Old 07-10-2016, 05:40 PM
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The JTRs are also spectacular for music. In particular, they really deliver excitement, energy, and impact - all without fatigue or hashness. I've often scratched my head how audiophile speakers can sound great for acoustic stuff and vocals, but sound dull for rock, electronic, dance, etc. that sounded fine in low-fi systems. I used to think that they were just too revealing for bad recordings. Then I heard AMTs, which did better, then JTRs, which did incredible with all these genres that sounded terrible on audiophile speakers. And they sound equally incredible for classical, jazz, vocals, and the usual audiophile materials. Movies, too. It turns out that this is a common eureka for people who hear highly dynamic speakers - especially the subset of them that are also high fidelity (i.e. JTR, Seaton, Danley).

Speakers with higher directivity don't need room to breathe. You do have to consider the seating area and angles for a living room. The directivity does make a huge improvement with vocal intelligibility. You notice that right away.

If you want to be able to have a party where people can walk around a room filled with sound, very wide directivity is the way to go. On the other hand, to get maximum clarity for a few seats, narrow directivity can work great, even moreso in an untreated room. I don't know where you stand with that or if you'd prefer a more ambient sound, but for the rest of what you've said the JTR 210s are probably your ideal speakers.
Yeah, I don't think my wife is going to let me put up a bunch of acoustic panels on our family room walls and ceiling.!

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post #576 of 585 Old 07-10-2016, 06:06 PM
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Yeah, I don't think my wife is going to let me put up a bunch of acoustic panels on our family room walls and ceiling.!
Haha...I just looked up that your amp is 800 watts at 4 ohms. Sounds ideal. You could definitely get by without subs with the 210RTs, if that's a WAF issue.
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post #577 of 585 Old 08-16-2016, 11:11 AM
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Yeah. The mids on the Aeris and 3-way JTRs are exceptional. I agree that they are a weak point of the Golden Ears. I felt they were also a weak point of the Focus SEs.
Can you elaborate a bit more on what you feel is missing from the Focus SE mids? They are supposedly the closest comparison to the Legacy Silhouettes which I am interested in.

I did get a chance to listen to the Focus SE, but only had time to audition a clip of Transformers 4 off of Youtube and a few tracks off Spotify, which wasn't enough for me to understand their mids.

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post #578 of 585 Old 08-16-2016, 11:17 AM
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Can you elaborate a bit more on what you feel is missing from the Focus SE mids? They are supposedly the closest comparison to the Legacy Silhouettes which I am interested in.

I did get a chance to listen to the Focus SE, but only had time to audition a clip of Transformers 4 off of Youtube and a few tracks off Spotify, which wasn't enough for me to understand their mids.
I wasn't able to listen to them too much, so take with a dose of salt. I felt that the Focus SE lacked dynamics. The difference between them and the Aeris was huge. Maybe they weren't set up very well?
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post #579 of 585 Old 08-16-2016, 01:03 PM
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I wasn't able to listen to them too much, so take with a dose of salt. I felt that the Focus SE lacked dynamics. The difference between them and the Aeris was huge. Maybe they weren't set up very well?


Actually I listened to the Signature SE, not the Focus SE. Have you compared those? Any thoughts about the mids in the Signature SE?

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post #580 of 585 Old 08-16-2016, 01:05 PM
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Actually I listened to the Signature SE, not the Focus SE. Have you compared those? Any thoughts about the mids in the Signature SE?
No, although I'd expect they are pretty similar.
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post #581 of 585 Old 08-17-2016, 08:24 AM
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Actually I listened to the Signature SE, not the Focus SE. Have you compared those? Any thoughts about the mids in the Signature SE?
Both are dynamic. The Focus has better and smoother midrange and more bass. I wouldn't try to compare the Aeris to the Focus SE because the Aeris has on board amplification and DSP room correction. Apples to Oranges.

I just noticed that the Focus XD contains an on board amplifier but not DSP room correction. Interesting.
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post #582 of 585 Old 08-18-2016, 03:22 PM
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Both are dynamic. The Focus has better and smoother midrange and more bass. I wouldn't try to compare the Aeris to the Focus SE because the Aeris has on board amplification and DSP room correction. Apples to Oranges.

I just noticed that the Focus XD contains an on board amplifier but not DSP room correction. Interesting.
Hmm.... That brings up the question, if you have a really powerful separate power amp, would there still be a reason to go with the Focus XD over the Focus SE? Might one still get better sound because of freeing the separate power amp from having to produce deep bass at high levels, even though such an amp had enough power to do so?

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post #583 of 585 Old 08-18-2016, 06:46 PM
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Both are dynamic. The Focus has better and smoother midrange and more bass. I wouldn't try to compare the Aeris to the Focus SE because the Aeris has on board amplification and DSP room correction. Apples to Oranges.

I just noticed that the Focus XD contains an on board amplifier but not DSP room correction. Interesting.
I have the Legacy Aeris. The Xlicia DSP was nice however the Wavelet is a game changer. I sold my preamp traded in the Xlicia and bought the Wavelet as my preamp.The Focus now has amplification for the bass. If you need DSP in the Focus SE or HD you can purchase the Wavelet and use it as a DSP or as preamp with DSP. As an added bonus it has a DAC built in. I have yet to do some serious comparison between my DAC and the one in the Wavelet. Yes I did some AB comparison and they sounded pretty close. I use a server.
The speakers I had before I purchased my first Legacy were Infinity IRS Epsilon. My first Legacy speakers were Focus SE which sounded similar to the Infinity's. The Infinity's in there day were a $15,000 speaker and the Legacy $10,000. The Legacy's seem to be the next step up from my Infinity's. The sound is more refined and with tighter bass. The Aeris just another step up. I actually question myself and wonder if I should have gone with the Whispers. The rumor is the Whispers are are easier to,place,set up. However with the Wavelet none of that matters now.
My amps are rated 600 watts 8ohms and over 1000 at 4ohms. Yes the Aeris do crank and kick butt. I'm sure everyone has a great speaker they like. I even like the speakers in my home theater set up and they cost $3000 a pair but then you need to count the 2 subwoofers. My recommendation buy what you think sounds best and not what someone tells you.
Cheers
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post #584 of 585 Old 08-19-2016, 08:06 AM
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Hmm.... That brings up the question, if you have a really powerful separate power amp, would there still be a reason to go with the Focus XD over the Focus SE? Might one still get better sound because of freeing the separate power amp from having to produce deep bass at high levels, even though such an amp had enough power to do so?
I would suggest talking to the folks at Legacy. They are very honest about their products. I think the XD may be due to market pressure as many speakers are now self amplified.
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post #585 of 585 Old 08-19-2016, 08:09 AM
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I have the Legacy Aeris. The Xlicia DSP was nice however the Wavelet is a game changer. I sold my preamp traded in the Xlicia and bought the Wavelet as my preamp.The Focus now has amplification for the bass. If you need DSP in the Focus SE or HD you can purchase the Wavelet and use it as a DSP or as preamp with DSP. As an added bonus it has a DAC built in. I have yet to do some serious comparison between my DAC and the one in the Wavelet. Yes I did some AB comparison and they sounded pretty close. I use a server.
The speakers I had before I purchased my first Legacy were Infinity IRS Epsilon. My first Legacy speakers were Focus SE which sounded similar to the Infinity's. The Infinity's in there day were a $15,000 speaker and the Legacy $10,000. The Legacy's seem to be the next step up from my Infinity's. The sound is more refined and with tighter bass. The Aeris just another step up. I actually question myself and wonder if I should have gone with the Whispers. The rumor is the Whispers are are easier to,place,set up. However with the Wavelet none of that matters now.
My amps are rated 600 watts 8ohms and over 1000 at 4ohms. Yes the Aeris do crank and kick butt. I'm sure everyone has a great speaker they like. I even like the speakers in my home theater set up and they cost $3000 a pair but then you need to count the 2 subwoofers. My recommendation buy what you think sounds best and not what someone tells you.
Cheers
I second your recommendation with the caveat that one's financial and room situations force compromise.
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