***The Official Ascend Acoustics Sierra Thread*** - Page 109 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 22Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #3241 of 3270 Old 02-20-2015, 05:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ascend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyalawya View Post
Dave, do you offer service to refinish Sierra cabinets? I am liking the satin cheery finish so much that I want to refinish my older glossy cherry to match.

Which satin cherry did you purchase? If it was the US built cabinets, yes -- we can refinish your gloss cherry to match the satin cherry. However, it is likely to be more expensive then purchasing new cabinets. Send me an email or call to discuss.

David Fabrikant

audio professional and soft spoken representative of www.AscendAcoustics.com

Ascend is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3242 of 3270 Old 02-20-2015, 06:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 8,551
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by jah.volunteer View Post
Thanks all for the replies. They will be replacing some Mirage M-290s which I've never found bright. On the other hand, my Boston VR30s tend to sound bright at high levels in my living room which is also an acoustic nightmare. I've definitely found myself getting fatigued with the Bostons after long listening sessions at high volumes.

If I go with the 1s, I wouldn't chose the NrT upgrade so it's sounds like I'm safe either way.
I installed the NrTs in my Sierra-1s after using them for a while with the stock tweeter. The NrT upgrade doesn't make it bright or forward IMHO so don't let that stop you....
lovinthehd is offline  
post #3243 of 3270 Old 02-20-2015, 07:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
muzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: MA. USA
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 39
I have the 1's and love them, but I'd at least Demo the 2's if I could afford them.
The 1's sound pretty awesome, listening to them now.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
muzz is online now  
post #3244 of 3270 Old 02-21-2015, 10:35 PM
Member
 
jah.volunteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quick question before I order ...is there any reason why I wouldn't want to add the magnetic shielding? They will be resting close to my PC monitor. Thanks again!
jah.volunteer is offline  
post #3245 of 3270 Old 02-21-2015, 11:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 8,551
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked: 1435
lovinthehd is offline  
post #3246 of 3270 Old 02-22-2015, 02:21 AM
Member
 
jah.volunteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
....that goes to show how overdue my upgrade is. Thanks!
lovinthehd likes this.
jah.volunteer is offline  
post #3247 of 3270 Old 03-09-2015, 06:29 AM
Member
 
jah.volunteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Proud new owner of the Sierra 1's in satin espresso. So far I'm completely impressed by these little over achievers.

Have them matched up with a new Parasound Halo P5 / A23 combo.
jah.volunteer is offline  
post #3248 of 3270 Old 03-09-2015, 06:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
merrymaid520's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by jah.volunteer View Post
Proud new owner of the Sierra 1's in satin espresso. So far I'm completely impressed by these little over achievers.

Have them matched up with a new Parasound Halo P5 / A23 combo.
Excellent! I also have ascends (RAAL towers) paired with parasound A21 and P5. You like the Parasound gear so far?
merrymaid520 is online now  
post #3249 of 3270 Old 03-10-2015, 09:01 AM
Member
 
jah.volunteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Yes, so far I love the pairing. Still breaking in but wow these speakers deliver a lot for the $.

I'm curious what you are using for interconnects, speaker wire, power cables etc?
jah.volunteer is offline  
post #3250 of 3270 Old 03-10-2015, 03:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
beaveav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by jah.volunteer View Post
Yes, so far I love the pairing. Still breaking in but wow these speakers deliver a lot for the $.

I'm curious what you are using for interconnects, speaker wire, power cables etc?
I'd guess he's using interconnects, speaker wire, and power cables, respectively.

Semi-retired Technology Insider.
Insist on Quality Posting.
beaveav is offline  
post #3251 of 3270 Old 03-10-2015, 07:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
merrymaid520's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View Post
I'd guess he's using interconnects, speaker wire, and power cables, respectively.
How did you know?

Honestly I use mono price interconnects mostly, standard power cords, and ascends 4 strand speaker wire. Nothing fancy that's for sure. I'm not a believer
merrymaid520 is online now  
post #3252 of 3270 Old 03-10-2015, 07:24 PM
Senior Member
 
justthinking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I asked in the Sierra-2 thread but didn't get any reply...

Any Sierra-2 owners in the SF Bay Area? I would really love if someone can let me demo these speakers in their place for just a short session...

I can bring a pair of the KEF LS50 and Monitor Audio GS10 just so we can compare them..
justthinking is online now  
post #3253 of 3270 Old 03-23-2015, 01:57 PM
Member
 
DonaldFagen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've thought long and hard for several years about replacing an old but very fulfilling pair of B&W Matrix 2 Series 2 as my front mains in a 5.1 speaker arrangement (which is often used in 2.0 or 2.1 stereo mode for music). I love them, but one problem is that I have them turned on their sides so that they fit on shelves inside a large, wood built-in home-theater wall cabinet. The other problem is that they have rear-facing ports which fire directly into the cabinet's rear wall, about a foot behind the back of the speakers.

My thoughts are that the very similarly sized Sierra Horizons, with their front-slotted ports and horizontally oriented driver design, would offer better timing, dispersion, coherence, etc. in my situation vs. the B&W's, which were designed to perform optimally sitting vertically on stands placed several feet from any neighboring walls. Furthermore, according to specs, the Ascends dig a little deeper than the old B&W's.

Any thoughts as to whether or not a pair (or even three) of the Horizons might be an improvement over the Matrix speakers?? I would probably opt for the RAAL ribbon tweeters so this would not be an inexpensive venture. (I realize they can be returned within 30 days but shipping costs alone would be in the $200 neighborhood.) Would especially love to hear from anyone who owns or has heard these.
DonaldFagen is offline  
post #3254 of 3270 Old 03-24-2015, 07:09 AM
Member
 
healthnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I haven't heard your current speakers, but own the Sierra Horizon with RAAL, and can confidently recommend it. I think it can complete with any speaker in its price range and many beyond it. It is spooky spacious, it is satisfyingly full-range, is detailed and is really without fault to my ears. Yes, it's not inexpensive, but wih an ID company like Ascend, a far greater percentage of the speaker costs are what you're paying for, not advertising budgets. I think it'll be a significant upgrade for you. Best of luck!
DonaldFagen likes this.
healthnut is online now  
post #3255 of 3270 Old 03-24-2015, 12:39 PM
Member
 
auceny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Has anyone had a chance to compare the Sierra-1 to the new SVS Prime bookshelf (and centers possibly)? These are my two leading choices right now.

Denon 2113, Klipsch RF-52, RC-35, RB-61, SVS PB-1000
Chicago
auceny is online now  
post #3256 of 3270 Old 03-24-2015, 06:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
audio4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by auceny View Post
Has anyone had a chance to compare the Sierra-1 to the new SVS Prime bookshelf (and centers possibly)? These are my two leading choices right now.
They are in different classes really. Everybody says their cabinets are braced to remove resonation and then you find out their speakers are made of MDF.

Which is odd about the SVS model, they don't really say what the speaker box is made of. In fact, compared to Ascend, they leave out a lot of detail, which is to say that the Sierras come with reams of data.

Including the box material, bamboo. It turns out the stuff is really stiff. Really. I've got a pair of the Sierra 2s and those boxes are amazing. They showed me I've been living with resonating speakers for the last decade. Anyway, the Sierras also handle more power, go lower, are heavier, and have a better tweeter, cabinet and warranty. They also have more options.

But if the Sierra 1 is too much for the budget, the SVS also looks like a decent option.
cschang and lovinthehd like this.
audio4life is offline  
post #3257 of 3270 Old 03-24-2015, 06:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ascend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by auceny View Post
Has anyone had a chance to compare the Sierra-1 to the new SVS Prime bookshelf (and centers possibly)? These are my two leading choices right now.

This is a rather odd comparison. The proper comparison would be our HTM-200SE with the SVS prime bookshelf, but even with that - our 200SE has dual woofers, is quite a bit larger and weights about 40% more. Our Sierra-1 should be compared with the SVS Ultra series.
cschang and lovinthehd like this.

David Fabrikant

audio professional and soft spoken representative of www.AscendAcoustics.com

Ascend is online now  
post #3258 of 3270 Old 03-24-2015, 06:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
alphaiii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascend View Post
This is a rather odd comparison. The proper comparison would be our HTM-200SE with the SVS prime bookshelf, but even with that - our 200SE has dual woofers, is quite a bit larger and weights about 40% more. Our Sierra-1 should be compared with the SVS Ultra series.
I assumed he was referring to the Prime Bookshelf (6.5" woofer)... not the Prime Satellite (4" woofer)...

While I agree the Ultra is the more appropriate comparison... I don't think the Prime Bookshelf vs. 200SE is the appropriate comparison either.
alphaiii is offline  
post #3259 of 3270 Old 03-24-2015, 07:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ascend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post
I assumed he was referring to the Prime Bookshelf (6.5" woofer)... not the Prime Satellite (4" woofer)...

While I agree the Ultra is the more appropriate comparison... I don't think the Prime Bookshelf vs. 200SE is the appropriate comparison either.

Ahh - I was thinking the Prime Satellite. In the case of the Prime Bookshelf, component-wise, I would then consider the proper comparison to be our CBM-170SE. That would definitely be an interesting comparison.

David Fabrikant

audio professional and soft spoken representative of www.AscendAcoustics.com

Ascend is online now  
post #3260 of 3270 Old 03-24-2015, 10:13 PM
Member
 
auceny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascend View Post
This is a rather odd comparison. The proper comparison would be our HTM-200SE with the SVS prime bookshelf, but even with that - our 200SE has dual woofers, is quite a bit larger and weights about 40% more. Our Sierra-1 should be compared with the SVS Ultra series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post
I assumed he was referring to the Prime Bookshelf (6.5" woofer)... not the Prime Satellite (4" woofer)...

While I agree the Ultra is the more appropriate comparison... I don't think the Prime Bookshelf vs. 200SE is the appropriate comparison either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascend View Post
Ahh - I was thinking the Prime Satellite. In the case of the Prime Bookshelf, component-wise, I would then consider the proper comparison to be our CBM-170SE. That would definitely be an interesting comparison.
Yeah definitely the bookshelf and not sat. I think I'm sold on the Sierra-1's though. Will have to decide which color to get since my original plans were thrown off a little with the outdated pricing on the Ascend website.

Denon 2113, Klipsch RF-52, RC-35, RB-61, SVS PB-1000
Chicago
auceny is online now  
post #3261 of 3270 Old 03-25-2015, 09:36 AM
Member
 
slippery44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello, long time lurker, I've been considering upgrading to RAAL Sierra Towers and a Horizon center for some time now. Right now my current setup are Chase SHO-10s all around, which is more of a high efficiency HT monitor speaker. Do you think I would take a fairly big hit in HT moving to the Towers? In the past I've been almost always been 100% HT, now I'm starting to really want to listen to more music. So I'd say it would be closer to 60 HT/40 music going forward. It's a fairly large investment for me, so I want to go in with eyes open, would anyone here say they find home theatre lacking? I know the music will be a large improvement, so I'm not worried about that.
slippery44 is offline  
post #3262 of 3270 Old 03-25-2015, 10:59 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by slippery44 View Post
Hello, long time lurker, I've been considering upgrading to RAAL Sierra Towers and a Horizon center for some time now. Right now my current setup are Chase SHO-10s all around, which is more of a high efficiency HT monitor speaker. Do you think I would take a fairly big hit in HT moving to the Towers? In the past I've been almost always been 100% HT, now I'm starting to really want to listen to more music. So I'd say it would be closer to 60 HT/40 music going forward. It's a fairly large investment for me, so I want to go in with eyes open, would anyone here say they find home theatre lacking? I know the music will be a large improvement, so I'm not worried about that.
I've heard the SHO-10 a few times.

IMO...there would not be any hit in HT, and the gains overall will be astounding.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #3263 of 3270 Old 03-25-2015, 01:12 PM
Member
 
slippery44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post
I've heard the SHO-10 a few times.

IMO...there would not be any hit in HT, and the gains overall will be astounding.

Thanks for the reply that does set my mind at ease from someone who has heard both. I think I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger and the 30 day return policy also seems like a nice thing if I decide these aren't for me. I've been reading on the forums for quite some time and had pretty much narrowed my speaker upgrade down to these.
slippery44 is offline  
post #3264 of 3270 Old 03-25-2015, 01:50 PM
Member
 
DonaldFagen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
I haven't heard your current speakers, but own the Sierra Horizon with RAAL, and can confidently recommend it. I think it can complete with any speaker in its price range and many beyond it. It is spooky spacious, it is satisfyingly full-range, is detailed and is really without fault to my ears. Yes, it's not inexpensive, but wih an ID company like Ascend, a far greater percentage of the speaker costs are what you're paying for, not advertising budgets. I think it'll be a significant upgrade for you. Best of luck!
I realize, of course, that no one other than me can assess my current B&W speakers but based on your positive comments and those of so many others I decided to order a pair of Horizons with the RAAL upgrade. This is my first time purchasing speakers without auditioning them first (not counting a subwoofer) so I really hope my instincts were right.

Wish me luck!!!
DonaldFagen is offline  
post #3265 of 3270 Old 03-25-2015, 04:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ascend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by auceny View Post
Yeah definitely the bookshelf and not sat. I think I'm sold on the Sierra-1's though. Will have to decide which color to get since my original plans were thrown off a little with the outdated pricing on the Ascend website.

Hi Auceny,


I apologize in advance for any confusion, but I am not sure I follow you with regard to outdated pricing on our website. The current prices of Sierra-1, as listed on our Sierra-1 page, are correct, and aside from any sales -- have not changed since we first introduced them. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...SRM1/srm1.html


Please feel free to send me a PM or email and I would be happy to further assist you.

David Fabrikant

audio professional and soft spoken representative of www.AscendAcoustics.com

Ascend is online now  
post #3266 of 3270 Old 03-25-2015, 06:50 PM
357
Advanced Member
 
357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Well I had preordered the Towers and Horizon with RAAL but I cancelled my preorder because I got tired of waiting.

Built the Clearwave Dynamic 4Ts and I'm about to finish up my center channel. Hate to say it, but the Sierra 1s are like one-tenth the speaker that the Dynamics are. The highs and mids are just astonishing. I'm hearing stuff on some crappy mp3s that I NEVER heard on my Sierras.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my Sierras when I upgraded from my Infinity Beta 40s...but the leap that the Dynamics gave me is just too much. To be honest I didn't think that they would sound too good. Boy was I wrong.

I haven't heard the Towers with RAAL, but tax time next year I'll order a pair to see how they compare.
357 is offline  
post #3267 of 3270 Old 03-25-2015, 07:42 PM
Member
 
auceny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post
Well I had preordered the Towers and Horizon with RAAL but I cancelled my preorder because I got tired of waiting.

Built the Clearwave Dynamic 4Ts and I'm about to finish up my center channel. Hate to say it, but the Sierra 1s are like one-tenth the speaker that the Dynamics are. The highs and mids are just astonishing. I'm hearing stuff on some crappy mp3s that I NEVER heard on my Sierras.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my Sierras when I upgraded from my Infinity Beta 40s...but the leap that the Dynamics gave me is just too much. To be honest I didn't think that they would sound too good. Boy was I wrong.

I haven't heard the Towers with RAAL, but tax time next year I'll order a pair to see how they compare.
If I'm seeing this correctly, you're comparing a nearly $2,000 diy tower to a $850 production bookshelf? Maybe I looked at the wrong speaker.

Denon 2113, Klipsch RF-52, RC-35, RB-61, SVS PB-1000
Chicago
auceny is online now  
post #3268 of 3270 Old 03-25-2015, 07:50 PM
357
Advanced Member
 
357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by auceny View Post
If I'm seeing this correctly, you're comparing a nearly $2,000 diy tower to a $850 production bookshelf? Maybe I looked at the wrong speaker.
Yup....setting up the Dynamics vs Clearwave review.

Actually more like $1500.

Last edited by 357; 03-25-2015 at 07:56 PM.
357 is offline  
post #3269 of 3270 Old Yesterday, 07:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Veda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by auceny View Post
If I'm seeing this correctly, you're comparing a nearly $2,000 diy tower to a $850 production bookshelf? Maybe I looked at the wrong speaker.
You're hearing stuff never heard on previous speakers, did you equalize and room correct prior to comparing?
Veda is offline  
post #3270 of 3270 Old Today, 01:37 PM
Member
 
auceny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veda View Post
You're hearing stuff never heard on previous speakers, did you equalize and room correct prior to comparing?

Wrong person quoted.

Just placed my order for 3xSierra-1's satin cherry and a pair of HTM-200's! Also ordered Pangea LS200 24" and 36" stands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Denon 2113, Klipsch RF-52, RC-35, RB-61, SVS PB-1000
Chicago
auceny is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
Ascend Acoustics , Acoustics



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off