***The Official Ascend Acoustics Sierra Thread*** - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3185 Old 08-10-2007, 03:51 PM
 
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It's common knowledge that higher priced speakers are not automatically better sounding speakers, so why should it be different with higher priced drivers? Think about it, if it were that simple then buy the highest priced drivers, the most expensive cross-overs, and place them in the most esoteric enclosure ever, and you'll have the best sounding speaker in the world, right? Yeah, and I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'll throw in, cheap!
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post #542 of 3185 Old 08-10-2007, 08:14 PM
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I'm considering a pair of the Sierras for 100% music listening in my dining/kitchen/living area. The best location I can find would end up with one on a shelf and one on a stand. In both places I can probably have about 6" of clearance from the back wall.

So here's my question: How would I mount the speaker on a stand? Is there a hole in the bottom for a screw to, er, screw into? I looked at some stands and it appears they come with screws to do this, but is this a standard feature of speakers this size? I'm a noob when it comes to small speakers.

Any stand recommendations?

Thanks,

Shane
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post #543 of 3185 Old 08-10-2007, 08:47 PM
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The Sierras have a female threaded insert on the back of the cabinet about 2 1/2" up from the bottom. I think this is intended to mate with the Omni wall bracket they have on their site which some of their earlier speakers are designed to be mounted to. You might have a tough time finding a single stand for your speaker...no way around shelf-mounting the other?

Good luck!

J.

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post #544 of 3185 Old 08-10-2007, 08:50 PM
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FWIW, I purchased the natural Sierras (which I love) and have decided to build matching stands out of bamboo. I wasn't able to find anything even close to the finish on the Sierras, and I don't like the way they look on black stands (I have a spare pair that I'm using them on), so I opted for homemade. I still haven't had a chance to get started on them, as I've gotten roped into "helping" a good friend build an oak TV stand in the interim. Hopefully I'll have the stands done in a week or two and I'll post pics.

J.

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post #545 of 3185 Old 08-10-2007, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonColeman View Post

The Sierras have a female threaded insert on the back of the cabinet about 2 1/2" up from the bottom. I think this is intended to mate with the Omni wall bracket they have on their site which some of their earlier speakers are designed to be mounted to. You might have a tough time finding a single stand for your speaker...no way around shelf-mounting the other?

Good luck!

J.

Nope...it is not for wall mounting, it is for attaching to Ascend's custom stands which have a back plate for attaching the speakers to the stands.

I asked about using the threaded insert for wall mounting and was advised not to do it there was any force that could pull the insert out.

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post #546 of 3185 Old 08-10-2007, 09:13 PM
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Ahh...I see... Thanks for the clarification. I don't think I've seen that kind of setup before, though it is clever. With such beefy stands, you might be hard pressed to come up with another way to couple the two. Do you use the attaching plate in your setup? Too bad they don't make them for the naturals...

J.

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post #547 of 3185 Old 08-10-2007, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonColeman View Post

Ahh...I see... Thanks for the clarification. I don't think I've seen that kind of setup before, though it is clever. With such beefy stands, you might be hard pressed to come up with another way to couple the two. Do you use the attaching plate in your setup? Too bad they don't make them for the naturals...

J.

I have custom stands that I had built for me when I got my classic 340's, but I had them built to use the threaded insert. The threaded insert on the Sierras are in a slightly different position, but the plate that Ascend uses is sloted, so it works fine......mine is not sloted, so right now I am not using it.

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post #548 of 3185 Old 08-10-2007, 10:38 PM
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Ugh. I was hoping for something much less, er, blocky than those pedestals. More like Sanus Euro or even Ascend's SP-30.
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post #549 of 3185 Old 08-10-2007, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

Andy that is absolutely amazing. "I think my main speakers sound better than any speaker I have ever heard in my life, including mosters selling for over $50,000 pair, so I figure they are a good deal. " If they really sound better that 'mosters' costing 50000$, then they're simply amazing, you also can't argue the facts of a genius. So you win.

Now back to your usual programming!

You are such a tool you can't even begin to understand.

First off, only correct someone if you feel your grammar and spelling are excellent.
Second off, to attack someone's small, small spelling/typing mistake is incredibly dumb since it has no reflection on intelligence.
And lastly, if you were to be so bold to correct someone's English, sentence structure would be something you could critique.

Let us look at your paragraph.

If they really sound better that 'mosters' costing 50000$, then they're simply amazing, you also can't argue the facts of a genius. So you win.

This is the correct sentence. (or I think it's close)

If the speakers really sound better than "mosters" costing $50,000 then they're simply amazing. You also can't argue the facts of a genius, so you win.

Also, the fact that you said "then the speakers are simply amazing" and said something dumb implying that you thought the guy was an idiot for not typing monsters correctly shows that not only were you not making sense, you might be delusional.


I took up enough of all your thread space... I apologized. Good luck.
At least it is something that is interesting and not really lame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

Nice idea, but the logic is flawed. The fact is that uber-drivers are only a very small margin better than more modestly priced drivers in the $30-$80 range. When designing an uber-speaker, you're spending so much on designing the perfect speaker and you're charging so much (economies of scale), that it makes perfect sense to spend just a small fraction more to get the absolute best drivers, even if the improvement is minute. When designing a lesser speaker, it makes a lot more sense to sink that money into the design and improve the speaker exponentially (due to economies of scale), as opposed to spending more for a miniscule amount of improvement via uber-drivers.

The same logic applies when you approach an uber-DIY speaker. There's little reason not to pay top dollar for the drivers. You're building them once, as you're uber-speaker, so why not go all out? You can always rehash the design later, if there's something you want to touch up (design perfection). Buy the best for a bit more, and the drivers will last you a lifetime, through any number of different designs you try out.
Having analyzed the performance of a few woofers and tweeters, it's not worth it. It's much better to spend this money on the design of the speaker, as a whole. This is Ascend's no-nonsense approach, and I like it (even if I don't own a pair). It's all about investing the money where they'll see the most improvement. I just wish they had a walnut finish.

I hope you are right. SVS is the first company I've ever seen doing something like this..when I say something like this I'm referring to the fact that they are putting in some well respected drivers and shooting for a small margin. If they fail, then who cares....but if they come out with some fantastic speakers, hopefully others will catch on. I think that was the most sarcastic thing I've said all day.

Not to be a pro-svs thing...they just happen to be the first people I've seen with the right idea. You see his speakers he made with the morel supremes and skannings? Someone could manufacture a mtm for around $1,500-2,000. His calculations were actually different then what I was thinking.
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post #550 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 01:19 AM
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Andy,

While you consider those drivers to be the "best" -- I certainly don't and I think I probably have a bit more experience than you in this matter

Why limit yourself with using those supposedly *better* drivers? Why not go for something even better -- or how about MUCH better? Wouldn't that be a better idea?

What about using coincident Berylium drivers? I assure you, the improvement in performance from using one of these drivers to any of the models you mentioned is far more audible than any of our drivers being compared to these *supposedly better because they cost most more* drivers?

The cost of these truly high-performance drivers run 6-10 times the cost of the "best" drivers you mentioned.

In fact, I know of bookshelf style loudspeaker at about $6K pair retail that you can probably purchase at $5K street that uses a tweeter that costs well over $1K to purchase. A speaker that uses a tweeter that retails for about 7 times more than the tweeter in SVS, yet the pair itself only costs 5 times more. Isn't that the better deal?

I think you see my point....

Andy, this thread is about the Sierra-1... Questions from forum members directed to product owners. There are other forums and other threads that are, perhaps, more appropriate places to discuss your ideas and get better feedback on your ideas.

Please respect the topic of this thread. Thank you...

David Fabrikant

audio professional and soft spoken representative of www.AscendAcoustics.com

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post #551 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 05:47 AM
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Nicely said, Dave.

BTW, though I'm sure I can look it up, what size and TPI is the threaded insert on the rear of the Sierras? I think I remember reading 10mm, but I'm not positive.

Thanks!

J.

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post #552 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 06:37 AM
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It's also tough to gauge the value of drivers unless you know what the manufacturing costs of them are vs. what the OEM who makes them is selling them for.
OEM''s that come up with a well designed driver frequently fetch EXTREMES IN PROFIT AND DESIGN costs from their sale, BUT when a very large speaker company comes along that wants to purchase it in QUANITY and they (the OEM) will often make a slight change or two (or NONE) AND CLAIM IT'S DIFFERANT but sell that driver to the big guy FOR A LOT LESS (disclosing this to no one else). It's also impossible to say whether the large speaker company couldn't simply reverse engineer and build the same thing THEMSELVES at pennies on the dollar. These kinds of factors and variables make it silly to look at all that...Just listen to the finished product and see who you feel is bringing the best sound to market for the price you are willing to play......If the Devil developed a dried dogpoop mid-bass driver and a styrafoam tweeter in a coardboard box that produced the music of the Gods and it cost him $4 bucks to build and he was charging $700 a pair, I wouldn't care provided it sounded that much better than the competition at that price.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #553 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 07:24 AM
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David, great post, always good to hear from you!

Andyisc00l, you have derailed the Official Ascend Sierra thread long enough - I don't exactly know what your agenda is but kindly take it elsewhere so we can get back on point.

Speaking of which, my 5 Sierras in natural are scheduled for delivery Monday. Figured it was time to see why all you owners are so happy, but I have all you to blame if my wife kicks me out of the house. I will be comparing them to my Ascend 170SE's and the Swan D2.1SE's during the next 1-2 weeks.

Natural bamboo vs. piano gloss black was a tough choice and I'm not sure I made the right one - I can see advantages to both.

Cheers,
Ross
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post #554 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Sm View Post

If the Devil developed a dried dogpoop mid-bass driver and a styrafoam tweeter in a coardboard box that produced the music of the Gods and it cost him $4 bucks to build and he was charging $700 a pair, I wouldn't care provided it sounded that much better than the competition at that price.

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post #555 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 08:49 AM
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Maybe we have all been approaching this the wrong way with "Andyisc001". We have all been basing our arguments on the final results not on the components that make up the product. It could be that the reason he can't understand the rationale of every other contributor to this thread is that he can't hear the difference between the different speakers. Therefore, his only method of differentiating is in the cost of the components.
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post #556 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 09:14 AM
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Dave,

I want you to refund my $.......

You said these were fabulously accurate speakers, yet they don't use the highest cost components, so how could this be true?

You have fleeced me into believing that the Sierra is a first class product, and I see now that you used inferior components to fool the test eqpt. into showing good results..
I know how you did it though, when you were saving the plots, you NAMED them " Most expensive Woof and Tweeter $ can buy" !

What an underhanded tactic you used, your not fooling me!!

Back to listening to my lousy Sierras, and their lousy components..

I want MY Cigarettes, MINE Nurse Ratched!!
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post #557 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyisc00l View Post

You are such a tool you can't even begin to understand.

This one line sums up this guy IMO. Best thing is to ignore and he will go away.

Bill

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post #558 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzz View Post

Dave,

I want you to refund my $.......

You said these were fabulously accurate speakers, yet they don't use the highest cost components, so how could this be true?

You have fleeced me into believing that the Sierra is a first class product, and I see now that you used inferior components to fool the test eqpt. into showing good results..
I know how you did it though, when you were saving the plots, you NAMED them " Most expensive Woof and Tweeter $ can buy" !

What an underhanded tactic you used, your not fooling me!!

Back to listening to my lousy Sierras, and their lousy components..

Hey muzz,

I can see you are very unhappy with the Sierras ! I will meet you half way to take them off your hands! Hope all is well.

Bill

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post #559 of 3185 Old 08-11-2007, 10:37 AM
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Hey Bill,

Yeah, I'm really upset with Dave for using less expensive components,trying to get the best possible performance, and keeping the price reasonable at the same time...

What an atrocity!!

I won't stand for it any longer!!

Dave- next time use the most expensive components you can find, and make sure to charge 10X what they are worth SQ wise..
That way you will make it into the SQ Hall of Shame!!
Make sure that you include a disclaimer, stating that unless you use $20K speaker wires, then you won't hear what the speakers are truly capable of, and qualifies as abuse/not covered under warranty.

On a more serious note-
Bill- Everything is well here Bud- Hope everything is well there!!
You can have my Sierras, when ya pry them from my Dead Cold hands!!
I'd like to get together to compare the Sierra/140's..


TTYS

Gary

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post #560 of 3185 Old 08-12-2007, 11:54 PM
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I recently read of someone who had glossy reflective speakers and had to get rid of them because he found it very distracting when watching a movie as the speakers were picking up every bit of light off the television and were the brightest thing in the darkened room - have any of you Sierra/piano black owners had this problem? Any regrets by anyone on the piano finish for any reason?

Cheers,
Ross
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post #561 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 09:33 AM
 
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Sorry if this has been asked before but I was wondering if it would be worth the cash to upgrade from the 340's to the Sierra's?

I have really been loving the 340's for everything (Movies, Music, Videogames) so is it that much better to justify the price?

Also are the having any sort of trade in deal?

Thanks!
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post #562 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 09:42 AM
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My 2 cents.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10764737

I'd still say it applies, sub, sierra bass advantage not as important. Imaging, not as important for games/HT. So for HT, not as worth as for music. Things does improve, but not that significantly, maybe not enough for all people to spend the money to upgrade, for HT. 2ch no sub, Sierra definitely better.
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post #563 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

I recently read of someone who had glossy reflective speakers and had to get rid of them because he found it very distracting when watching a movie as the speakers were picking up every bit of light off the television and were the brightest thing in the darkened room - have any of you Sierra/piano black owners had this problem? Any regrets by anyone on the piano finish for any reason?

Cheers,
Ross

Ross,

Good question. I had a Onix Ref 100 in Piano Black which was right under my plasma. I do not recall having issues with reflections from the PDP. But sometimes you do not notice certain things till they are brought to your attention. I would be curious what PB Sierra owners have to say as well.

Bill

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post #564 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 10:25 AM
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No problem here, and they're sitting in front of an 84 inch projector screen, about 1/7th the bottom of the screen is at the same level as the Sierras (with the sierras being about 1 feet on either side of screen), the speakers are with a slight toe in.

With the toe in, the speakers point pretty much at the listener, so pretty much no reflection there. If there's more than one person sitting and some have more of an angle, then i think you can see a reflection on the far speaker, but I don't remember it being distracting nor have ever received any complaints... But you should be able to see some light reflection... I don't find it distracting, and don't notice my projector's 'rainbows' (color wheel) either, so YMMV.

Just mean some people get bothered by small things, others not. Maybe i don't see rainbows because I don't think of it... If I stared looking for some I'd might see them, and be bothered... Same for reflection off speakers... Probably there, but if you dont think about it, shouldn't be a problem. And with toe in, you normally don't have an angle where the PB can reflect directly the screen. Only what is in front of the speakers, which shouldn't be too bright or distracting anyhow. Unless you're pointing a flashlight at ur TV...
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post #565 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 12:46 PM
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At the risk of total embarrassment, I will put my pride on the shelf and ask this extremely Noobish , although quasi-Sierra-related, question:

I'm currently using 2 Sony SSMF650H speakers in 2-channel in a stereo setup for TV/Movies and some (but not a lot of) music. I consider myself an audiophile in the headphone side of things, but obviously haven't made solid steps in the speaker realm yet.

I'm in the works of putting together my first Home Theatre in a rather large room with projector/movie screen, etc. I've posted on some different forums about advice, but somehow I'm still up in the air as to what to do.

So here goes the Sierra question:

With budget in mind ( ) as well as considering the Sony speakers I've acclimated to for the last few years, which of the Ascend setups below would make more sense for me? Would either or both of them blow my mind in comparison to the Sony's? Mind you, I'd like to add to the system down the road, but budget-wise, this is all I can do right now:

340 LCR / 170 Surrounds / (all 5 will need stands purchased; I'm no handyman)

or

Sierra-1 LCR / (all 3 will need stands purchased; ditto)

Yeah... the age-old 340 vs. Sierra question. I'd like to build a system that will love me long time... ...but, it's hard for me to imagine what the step up from my current Sony situation to either of these setups will be like. The talk of "clarity" and "soundstage" and "imaging" in regards to both of these speaker sets gets me all weak in the knees. And as much as auditioning would help, it's really not in the cards for me. I'd like to pull the trigger on an Ascend setup, I just don't know which route to go.

Also, I should note that I'd be quite fine waiting on a sub until later (WAF plays a role there), and just have a 5.0 or 3.0 setup until that money tree I planted out back bears it's fruit. Although, I do have concerns that either route will leave me bass-starved until I can get a sub. But then again, look at what I'm used to?

I've also thought about doing an entire x-Series 5.1 setup from av123, but something tells me that the Ascend route will keep me quite happy over the years. I've looked at Swans pretty heavily too...but I keep coming back to these god-forsaken Sierras.

Any advice/thoughts/diatribes/recipes on this 80% HT / 20% Music setup would be mucho appreciatado. I really can't spend more than $1500-ish for these speakers as I need to get an AV Receiver too (Yamaha 659 vs. Onkyo 605 anybody?!) and a boat load of other electronic nonsense to make the whole theatre...theatrical.

Aaaah...budgets suck.



EDIT: Fixed link
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post #566 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 01:02 PM
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I can't comment on the 340s, and I'm sure many others can, but the Sierras perform beautifully for me in a 2-channel no-sub setup in our large office. However, if most of your use is movies and HT, you might be better off going with a less-expensive speaker and try to pull off a 5.0 or a 5.1 with your budget.

J.

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post #567 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 03:50 PM
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If you're into movies more than music, don't leave out the sub. Get a 2.1 system rather than 5.0, then over time expand the 2.1 to 3.1, 5.1, and maybe even 7.1.
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post #568 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 04:11 PM
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Well considering your usage of 80/20 HT/Music (which will MOST LIKELY change with good sound- I was the same, now it's 50/50-at best, with more of a lean towards music), I would suggest a decent sub, especially if your watching action movies with alot of "Thunder" at LOUD levels...

The Sierra really does well with bass, but it's NOT designed for high SPL movies and such(Low frequencies), most floorstanders aren't good enough for full HT duty without a sub.

Considering the budget constraints and usage, you may want to invest in a sub, and 340's or even 170's instead, unless of course, your NOT going to play loud thunderous passages.
With a decent sub, these both sound fabulous.

The Sierras definitely go lower, and sound better, but they weren't designed to handle that kinda load(it's not their fault- look around), thats really dedicated subwoofer territory IMO.
For music, they can handle that just fine without a sub IMO.

These are just MY thoughts on the matter, but I wouldn't want to have my Sierras running full range(Large) playing at 90+SPL when the machines come outta the ground in War of the Worlds.

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post #569 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkfuzz View Post

At the risk of total embarrassment, I will put my pride on the shelf and ask this extremely Noobish , although quasi-Sierra-related, question:

I'm currently using 2 Sony SSMF650H speakers in 2-channel in a stereo setup for TV/Movies and some (but not a lot of) music. I consider myself an audiophile in the headphone side of things, but obviously haven't made solid steps in the speaker realm yet.

I'm in the works of putting together my first Home Theatre in a rather large room with projector/movie screen, etc. I've posted on some different forums about advice, but somehow I'm still up in the air as to what to do.

So here goes the Sierra question:

With budget in mind ( ) as well as considering the Sony speakers I've acclimated to for the last few years, which of the Ascend setups below would make more sense for me? Would either or both of them blow my mind in comparison to the Sony's? Mind you, I'd like to add to the system down the road, but budget-wise, this is all I can do right now:

340 LCR / 170 Surrounds / (all 5 will need stands purchased; I'm no handyman)

or

Sierra-1 LCR / (all 3 will need stands purchased; ditto)

Yeah... the age-old 340 vs. Sierra question. I'd like to build a system that will love me long time... ...but, it's hard for me to imagine what the step up from my current Sony situation to either of these setups will be like. The talk of "clarity" and "soundstage" and "imaging" in regards to both of these speaker sets gets me all weak in the knees. And as much as auditioning would help, it's really not in the cards for me. I'd like to pull the trigger on an Ascend setup, I just don't know which route to go.

Also, I should note that I'd be quite fine waiting on a sub until later (WAF plays a role there), and just have a 5.0 or 3.0 setup until that money tree I planted out back bears it's fruit. Although, I do have concerns that either route will leave me bass-starved until I can get a sub. But then again, look at what I'm used to?

I've also thought about doing an entire x-Series 5.1 setup from av123, but something tells me that the Ascend route will keep me quite happy over the years. I've looked at Swans pretty heavily too...but I keep coming back to these god-forsaken Sierras.

Any advice/thoughts/diatribes/recipes on this 80% HT / 20% Music setup would be mucho appreciatado. I really can't spend more than $1500-ish for these speakers as I need to get an AV Receiver too (Yamaha 659 vs. Onkyo 605 anybody?!) and a boat load of other electronic nonsense to make the whole theatre...theatrical.

Aaaah...budgets suck.



EDIT: Fixed link

If it was me, I would go for the Sierra's up front for now, and if you have room for them, you can put the sony's in the back. Not ideal, but that would give you a 5.0 system for now, then you can get a sub as soon as the money tree bears fruit, and then replace the Sonys in the next harvest.

But, I have heard neither, so I could be talking out my a**. I like to buy the best I can afford, so I won't wonder/worry about upgrading later. If you buy the 340's, then you will wonder how much better the Sierra's are.

Also, did you price the Sierra's as a package? Three Sierra fronts, in natural without magnetic shielding are $1224 shipped. And, you can call, and ask for b stock, which will save you another 12% from that.

I am picking up three Sierra, and two of the 200's tomorrow, for my HT. I work close to Ascend, so I save on shipping too .

For a receiver, I am looking at Denon. You can get Denon B stock for a reasonable price, if you don't mind reconditioned. I remember somebody on the SE thread that did not like Onkyo with the 340's, but YMMV.

Good luck
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post #570 of 3185 Old 08-13-2007, 07:18 PM
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Thanks everyone for your feedback.

@Randy:

Quote:
Originally Posted by randytsuch1 View Post

Also, did you price the Sierra's as a package? Three Sierra fronts, in natural without magnetic shielding are $1224 shipped. And, you can call, and ask for b stock, which will save you another 12% from that.

-- Yeah, that is precisely the deal I was looking at. I'd still have to add 3 stands to the mix and it seems that everywhere I look, they're about $100/stand.

I don't fully understand B-stock. I know what it is, but is it always available? I have no prob going with B-stock, just wasn't counting on it being available when I buy.

So, getting 3 Sierra's up front with no sub won't let me down? I really am concerned most with sound quality, not quantity, and while I realize a sub brings the LFE and thus quality to the overall HT experience, I normally equate "quality" with the clarity and accuracy of the mids/highs. That said, you guys think a Sierra LCR 3.0 system would suffice until a sub comes along?

I'm eyeing all kinds of subs... but there's so dang spendy. Here's some relatively cheaper ones that I'm looking at...

HSU VTF-2 MK3 (250) - BLACK $499.00
SVS 25-31PCi Subwoofer $549.00
SVS 20-39 PCi Subwoofer $599.00

I'm sure one of those would go well with the Sierra LCR, and like you said, I could round out the surrounds with the Sony's (I also have some Pioneer and Cambridge Soundwork surrounds too to use).

I'm still torn wondering if I should get a complete setup similar to the one below for less money... hmmm, the choices:

~$1800 5.1 Setup
ASCEND SYSTEM 33-1000 $1,048.00
--(pair of 340's, pair of 200's, 1 340 center)
ASCEND SYSTEM 340M STANDS (pr) $100.00
Ascend Shipping (direct) $66.00
Sanus NFC18 Stand for Sierra Center $95.00
HSU VTF-2 MK3 (250) - BLACK $499.00
HSU SHIPPING $53.42


or stick with the Sierras w/o a sub:

~$1500 3.0 Setup
ASCEND SIERRA Natural LCR $1,178.00
ASCEND SHIPPING $46.00
Sanus SF26B 26" Steel $99.00
Sanus SF26B 26" Steel $99.00
Sanus NFC18 Stand for Sierra Center $95.00




Thanks again for the help!
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