***The Official Ascend Acoustics Sierra Thread*** - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 3185 Old 08-23-2007, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ascend View Post

Hi couch21,

All reasonable concerns and I would be happy to address them...



At the time the 340 was designed, it seemed bi-wiring was very popular. Many customers requested this feature and after thorough evaluation of implementation details, it was realized that we could implement the option to bi-wire with relative ease

Many years later, we determined that less than ½ of 1 percent of our customers are actually using this feature. Instead, the feature actually becomes somewhat problematic as many consumers don't understand it and have actually caused problems due to improper wiring.

Bi-wire implementation on the Sierra would be a bit more complicated. You see, on just about every bi-wireable speaker, a crossover cup or plate is used on the back of the speaker (often a large one). This requires a large section of the rear baffle of the cabinet to be removed and actually compromises the integrity of the cabinet. Since one of the design goals of the Sierra was an extremely inert cabinet, using a binding post / input plate on the Sierra was quickly ruled out. Hate to waste all of that magical bamboo

Additionally, cost does come into play. Bi-wire implementation on the Sierra would be expensive - the binding posts we use are top grade and adding this feature would have added at least $60-$70 retail cost to each speaker ($120-$140 pair), something I don't consider fair to those customers who would never use the option (which is at least 99%)

If bi-wiring is a must, we can make a special-order bi-wireable pair for you



This surprises me a bit.. As Curtis mentioned, our CBM-170 was on the market, completely unchanged - without a single revision for nearly 6 full years. That is unheard of in the loudspeaker industry. New revisions of existing loudspeakers hit the market almost every year, at least every 2 years.

The 1 designation is not meant as a revision More so that it is the first model in our Sierra line. The Sierra-1 has been very well received and a tremendous success for us so far. Of course our intention is to eventually offer a Sierra-2, Sierra-3 - heck, if I had the resources and manpower, I would shoot for a Sierra-10.. But these would not be updates or revised versions of the Sierra-1, just different models altogether. Bookshelf speakers are only a small percentage of the market, why deny consumers the chance to experience the Sierra where a speaker of this size will simply not work for them?

Seriously, how many loudspeaker companies only offer 1 model in a line?

However, those that know me, know how meticulous I am about performance (bordering obsessive).. It could be years before we release a Sierra-2, whatever that speaker may be. I can assure you though, when a Sierra-2 or 3 or 4 etc. are released, they will be designed to complement the Sierra-1 - NOT replace it by any means.

I spent over 4 years working on this loudspeaker -- there is just no chance I am going to make any dramatic changes to it for a very long time.

To be honest, right now my primary concern is finding bamboo suppliers and factories that can manufacture the unique cabinets for us well into the future.

Hope this eases your concerns!

Thanks Dave for taking the time to directly respond to my concerns. There's no "purple monkey dishwasher" effect (Simpsons allusion, of course!) when I hear it straight from you. I appreciate the candid response.

I'm happily breaking-in my new piano black Sierra-1s right now; I don't even know what my problem is - I shouldn't be worrying about release 2 when I have perpetual bliss sitting right in front of me.
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post #632 of 3185 Old 08-24-2007, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

Fantastic post Dave! I am drooling at what a Sierra-2 or 3 might bring to the table!

p.s. I heard a pair of Paradigm Studio 20s (the newest model) a couple days ago. They sounded pretty good, but I wouldn't trade my Sierras for them.

Hi xcjago,

How would you (or anyone else) compare the two? I really like the Studio 20's but they are not perfect...and since they are priced about the same...the 170's and 340's also for that matter.

SBF1

ps I understand that acoustic memory...different rooms...etc...

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post #633 of 3185 Old 08-24-2007, 08:14 PM
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Imaging was very good on the Studio 20s and the highs sounded very crisp not not bright. Where I felt there was a difference is in the bass and mid bass. The Sierras seem to extend deeper and the bass hits have more impact. It's not a huge difference but it was definitely something I noticed.
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post #634 of 3185 Old 08-25-2007, 12:05 PM
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What x-over is being recommended for the Sierras? 60 Hz, or even 50? And the HTM 200's should probably be at ~ 100 Hz, right?
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post #635 of 3185 Old 08-25-2007, 12:11 PM
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If you've got a good sub, personally, I'd cross them over at 80Hz. I'd rather leave the sole mid/bass driver to reproducing great mid-range, and not having it try to go low at the same time. My $.02
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post #636 of 3185 Old 08-25-2007, 05:19 PM
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I cross my Sierras at 60hz. In my room, I feel I lose some bass quality if I cross at 80hz.

-curtis

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post #637 of 3185 Old 08-27-2007, 09:59 AM
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I was wondering if someone could clarify the Sierra's measured frequency response.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages.../srm1meas.html

While the second graph, which shows off-axis response, has the Sierra's response tailing off below 120 Hz, the top graph shows another broad peak at 80Hz. The broad peak seems to be missing in the second graph. There doesn't seem to be any difference between how these two measurements were taken. Any comments?
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post #638 of 3185 Old 08-27-2007, 11:08 AM
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The off-axis response did not employ the technique to accurately capture response below 200hz. DaveF explains it somewhere on the Ascend forum.

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post #639 of 3185 Old 08-27-2007, 11:18 AM
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After extensive WAF meetings, it looks like the Sierra's are back on the Christmas list. What a difference a day makes.

We've decided to use the Sierra's in an LCR 3.0 setup upstairs and work on the downstairs HT later. So, we'll be about 33% HT and 66% Music in our upstairs listening space. We'll round out the system to 5.1 later down the road, but for now, I'm most interested in clarity, imaging and soundstage across the front for watching films in the LCR setup, and 2-channel listening for music which will likely be playing in the house 6-8 hours a day, and a good hour or so of critical vinyl listening at night. I plan to run the Sierra's fullrange until later next year when a sub is introduced, then I'll xover.

Does anybody have a recommendation on a receiver that will drive these speakers sufficiently at my price range: I'd like to spend no more than $400-500 on the receiver at this time. The Emotiva duo looks wonderful, but I'm also buying a ridiculous amount of electronic nonsense in addition to speakers (Plasma, Wii, etc.) , so...something's gotta give. I currently own the following receiver, but I'm told on another thread that it won't power the Sierra's sufficiently. If you think otherwise, then PLEASE chime in, because honestly, I'd like to squeek out what I can with the receiver below and forgo buying a new receiver and save my squid for the rockin' Emotiva duo.

Thoughts? Many thanks from a future Ascend customer!

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post #640 of 3185 Old 08-27-2007, 11:58 AM
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funkfuzz, I'd suggest you keep your Sony for now and only upgrade it if you feel the need.

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post #641 of 3185 Old 08-27-2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

The off-axis response did not employ the technique to accurately capture response below 200hz. DaveF explains it somewhere on the Ascend forum.

Thanks! I'm contemplating ordering a pair and I'm trying to figure out what kind of sub configuartion I would use.
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post #642 of 3185 Old 08-27-2007, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainCatcer View Post

Thanks! I'm contemplating ordering a pair and I'm trying to figure out what kind of sub configuartion I would use.

What are your options?

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post #643 of 3185 Old 08-27-2007, 05:43 PM
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i sure would like a set of those plyboo stands...

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post #644 of 3185 Old 08-28-2007, 03:10 AM
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Ask and ye shall receive...the first batch should be out by the end of this week.

J.

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post #645 of 3185 Old 08-28-2007, 07:16 AM
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Quick addition...I'll post pics of the first batch as soon as they're complete.

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post #646 of 3185 Old 08-31-2007, 10:51 AM
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Another review:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...c_sierra_1.htm

-curtis

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post #647 of 3185 Old 08-31-2007, 10:22 PM
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Pics first thing in the morning...then off to UPS!

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post #648 of 3185 Old 08-31-2007, 10:24 PM
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Wow...made the last post before clicking on Curtis's link...one of the pairs of stands is going to the author of that review!

...and the other is going to Curtis!

Coincidence...? I don't think so!

J.

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post #649 of 3185 Old 08-31-2007, 10:25 PM
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Suddenly the signature starts to make sense...at least to me.

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post #650 of 3185 Old 08-31-2007, 10:43 PM
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Wow! That was a very glowing review, but accurate IMO. I like how he pointed out the importance of placement. Having the Sierras too close to the wall can definitely exaggerate the bass.
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post #651 of 3185 Old 08-31-2007, 10:45 PM
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I agree...with the rear port the bass and even midrange can get a bit "bloated" and muddy if positioned too close to a wall or other reflecting surface. They do really well on stands!

J.

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post #652 of 3185 Old 09-01-2007, 01:45 PM
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The reviewer was referring primarily to the distance of the Sierras to the wall behind them, correct? What about the side walls?

BTW, Just sold my L/C/R 340's today, and my Sierra Center arrives this coming Wed. I ordered b-stock cabinets (since I may actually paint them matte black) and will have to wait until they have more of these to get the L and R. In the meantime I have a pair of old Infinity Primus 160's; they are almost the same size as the Sierras, and actually don't sound so bad. (This will convince you that I'm no audiophile!)
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post #653 of 3185 Old 09-01-2007, 03:17 PM
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I've read through most of this thread in anticipation of my Sierras arriving next week, but have one issue is still not clear to me, the x-over with a sub.

I have a very nice sub (SVS PB10), at least for my medium-size (~ 2100 cu ft) room, so it would be simple just to use the standard 80 Hz x-over. But since the Sierras can go deep, wouldn't using 60 Hz (or maybe even 50) 'spread out' the base over the L/C/R Sierras and thus spread out room resonances better than having so much of the base being concentrated in the sub? Think how much the room resonances change as you move the sub around to different locations. If more of the base is coming from the L/C/R speakers, it seems that it would smooth out the room resonances more.

Is this argument totally out to lunch (quite possible)? And, of course, I will simply try different x-overs when I have the speakers; but I thought it would be good to get some insight from some the the experts here. (I realize that having a lower x-over will put more burden on the AVR, but I have a Onk 805 coming, so I don't think that is a worry.)
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post #654 of 3185 Old 09-01-2007, 03:44 PM
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Right. cschang confirmed that his sound better crossed over at 60hz. Retains more of the quality of the Sierra's bass. DaveF also suggested 60hz in the Ascend forums for the Sierras.

Try no sub also, Sierras sound great just by themselves I haven't run into a lot of material where the sierras seemed to have trouble with bass.


Nice review I also think audioholics somewhat negative comments on the Sierra bass was caused to inadequate placement... So it's nice to see a reviewer taking care to place them correctly go get the most out of them!
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post #655 of 3185 Old 09-01-2007, 05:57 PM
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I am very close to ordering a pair of Sierras to compare to my Dynaudio Focus 140s. I was wondering if anyone has their Sierras powered by any of the Parasound Halo amps (I have the A52)? I will most likely order the Sierra center as well.

Thanks, Bill

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post #656 of 3185 Old 09-01-2007, 09:18 PM
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Another review went up today....
http://www.soundstageav.com/onhifi.html

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post #657 of 3185 Old 09-01-2007, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I have a very nice sub (SVS PB10), at least for my medium-size (~ 2100 cu ft) room, so it would be simple just to use the standard 80 Hz x-over. But since the Sierras can go deep, wouldn't using 60 Hz (or maybe even 50) 'spread out' the base over the L/C/R Sierras and thus spread out room resonances better than having so much of the base being concentrated in the sub?

In the bass that your PB10 can play in common with the Sierra, the Sierra is much better in sound quality, but will not have the same output capability.

In my room, with my VTF-3MK3, which IMO sounds better than the PB10, I cross at 60hz because I feel I lose some quality if I cross at 80hz. I know someone with a JL Audio F112 that crosses at 80hz with his Sierras and does not lose a thing.

I would probably run the Sierra without a sub for music more often...but in my system it is a pain to switch between "with sub" and "without sub".

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post #658 of 3185 Old 09-02-2007, 06:49 AM
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Those two last reviews were really nice. Much better reviews IMHO than the one from audioholics!
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post #659 of 3185 Old 09-02-2007, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I am very close to ordering a pair of Sierras to compare to my Dynaudio Focus 140s. I was wondering if anyone has their Sierras powered by any of the Parasound Halo amps (I have the A52)? I will most likely order the Sierra center as well.

Thanks, Bill

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post #660 of 3185 Old 09-02-2007, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

Those two last reviews were really nice. Much better reviews IMHO than the one from audioholics!

Wow, you are right; what an impressive, and authorative review was this last one. Glad my L/C/R Sierras are on the way.
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