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post #1591 of 3905 Old 11-12-2008, 06:38 PM
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As mtrot said, most Yamahas outside of the Z models aren't real power-house. They usually offer the lower-end of adequate amounts of power, but make up for it with great features and tons of DSP options. Their YPAO is also usually on-par or superior to Pioneer MCACC and Audyssey 2EQ, but not quite up to the level of MultiEQ or MultiEQ XT. I drove my 6.1s in a very small room (10x11x8) with a Yamaha 1400 for about a month and while the power was adequate, it wasn't impressive. I stepped up to a Pioneer 82TXs which felt much more powerful and effortless at higher volumes, and was still powerful enough to drive the 6.1s well enough at full range when I moved into a medium sized room (15x22x8)... it opened up even more when I rebuilt my subwoofer, taking some load off of the internal amps. I saw a similar step up in power going to the Onkyo SR805 (the Pioneer was struck by lightning). It is a beast of a receiver... the only thing I can think of that has ever come close in a similar price range is the HK 7200/7300 some years back (a 65lb beast). I would easily put the SR805's amplification on par with the $2-3k offerings such as the Denon 4308, Marantz 9xxx series, and the higher end HK line when they still had one.

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post #1592 of 3905 Old 11-12-2008, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

In my theater I currently have the following in a 15x22x8 listening area (drywall, carpet, and poster frames, no acoustic treatments) :

Swans 6.1 Mains
Swans 2.1 Surrounds
Swans C3 Center
Avalanche 12" w/ 300w BASH Amp in 6ft^3 Enclosure tuned to 18zh
Onkyo SR805 Receiver
Samsung BD-UP5000 Duo Player
Tivo HD 160gb DVR
Panasonic AX100u 720P Projector
Ultra 100" 16:9 Motorized Screen

My listening is 99% HT, either DVD/Blu/HD or HDTVFor a almost 2 years I've had the receiver crossovers for the 6.1s set at 50hz, and everything else set at 80hz (THX). I've never had a clear-cut reasoning for this other than that the 6.1s can go lower cleanly so I figured I'd let them.

Is this the setup you guys would recommend? Last night I had to reset the receiver and, in turn, go through the setup again. For whatever reason I when I got to the speaker size settings (Auddysee automatically sets everything to full-range) I began to question this even though I'd never given it any thought before.

Would setting the mains to 40hz be too low? Is setting them to 50hz already too low? Would setting them to 80hz be a waste of these great speakers' capabilities? Is 80hz too low for the C3? Should it be at 100hz?

I did some quick A-B testing. I couldn't instantly go back and forth the different EQ settings, so it's far from scientific. I noticed very little if any difference between 40hz and 50hz. At 80hz the front sound stage was not quite as full, but I have no idea which is more accurate.

For now, I'm sticking with 50hz for the mains and 80hz for everything else, but I'd love to hear some input from other owners.

Based purely on published frequency plots, a general recommendation, you should look to crossover your speakers about 20hz higher that what the manufacturer claims as their low end response. If you look at the 6.1s a good crossover point is 50hz if you aren't going to run them full range. The C3 is best crossed-over at 75-80 (the problem here is OZ hometheater's plot and the plot on Swan's website are entirely different, which maybe because one of the plots is the original top mounted tweeter C3 and the other is the current model) The 2.1s should be crossed-over over at 70hz. However with all that being said, we have no idea what the actual in room response shall be. So as many would suggest, the Audyssey multieq, which is very convenient for those that have it built in their receiver (and rather simpleto use I might add). However for those that like a more involved task and like to tinker with the environment's sound. I would suggest the use of a free software, REW with a behringer ECM8000 mic plugged into 48volt power supply.

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post #1593 of 3905 Old 11-13-2008, 10:17 PM
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Jon,

Nice price on the d2.1se in your new special (599 - PB, 649 for rosewood). The description calls it a limited edition - is this different than the d2.1se that you have been selling until now?
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post #1594 of 3905 Old 11-13-2008, 11:17 PM
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I saw the November special posted today at TAI on the D2.1se as well. Great price if you missed the summer $499 piano black deal and you can get the great rosewodd finish too. I can't imagine it's a special edition. I think it's a special price. The special edition is something that has yet to surface.
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post #1595 of 3905 Old 11-14-2008, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSatch View Post

I saw the November special posted today at TAI on the D2.1se as well. Great price if you missed the summer $499 piano black deal and you can get the great rosewodd finish too. I can't imagine it's a special edition. I think it's a special price. The special edition is something that has yet to surface.

That's correct -- these are stock D2.1se laid in for early holiday sales (while the Signatures will come later...)

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post #1596 of 3905 Old 11-14-2008, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Lane View Post

That's correct -- these are stock D2.1se laid in the early holiday sales (while the Signatures will come later...)

Cool. I saw the "limited edition" in the description and wanted to see if there was a change. These are absolutely fabulous speakers.
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post #1597 of 3905 Old 11-16-2008, 01:32 PM
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Well, I should recieve my C3BC on Tuesday, after some initial confusion at Oz.

But I'm beginning to wonder if the search.live.com cashback is going to work out for me. I think I did everything right when ordering. But nothing has shown up in my PayPal account, and live.com will not let me log into my cashback account-it just times out. I saw in another forum that others are now having the same problem of it timing out and not going to their cashback accounts. So, I can't find out what is going on with it.

If I like the C3BC, I had planned to also pick up a pair of 6.1s, but if the cashback is not going to work, I may rethink the whole deal.

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post #1598 of 3905 Old 11-16-2008, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Well, I should recieve my C3BC on Tuesday, after some initial confusion at Oz.

But I'm beginning to wonder if the search.live.com cashback is going to work out for me. I think I did everything right when ordering. But nothing has shown up in my PayPal account, and live.com will not let me log into my cashback account-it just times out. I saw in another forum that others are now having the same problem of it timing out and not going to their cashback accounts. So, I can't find out what is going on with it.

If I like the C3BC, I had planned to also pick up a pair of 6.1s, but if the cashback is not going to work, I may rethink the whole deal.


The cashback won't show up in Paypal for 60 days, and probably an additional few after that until it hits your bank account.

Try logging in again, I just tried and got in relatively quickly.
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post #1599 of 3905 Old 11-16-2008, 04:38 PM
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I recently purchased my 6.1s and a C3 via ebay/cashback. You may have to wait a couple of days after the purchase to get the cashback email before it shows up in your cashback account.

I've had issues with some vendors and cashback. I contacted Microsoft cashback support and they have been very helpful. Remember it will take at 60 days before the cash back is available and another 4-5 days to move it into your paypal account.

----------------------------
Samsung HL67A750 LED DLP
Marantz 7002
Swan Diva 6.1, C3 Fronts
Mirage Omni 150 Surrounds
ED a2-300
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post #1600 of 3905 Old 11-18-2008, 09:13 PM
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Quick question: Are there going to be any more new Rosewood C3's added to the ebay store anytime soon? Looks like I missed out on the ones that were there earlier....

Update: It looks like the Rosewood may be listed...it's labeled as being a Black Cherry in the subtitle, but under the item description it says: "Brand new Diva by Swans C3 Center Channel Loudspeaker. 100% Real Wood Rosewood Finish."...also, the Rosewood is pictured...and the listing "Buy It Now" price on this one is higher than the other Black Cherry listing (as it should be)...so, I pulled the trigger on this assuming it's the Rosewood....hope I did good
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post #1601 of 3905 Old 11-19-2008, 07:34 AM
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Seems to have arrived in good condition. Compared to my PSB cc570v.3, the Diva is smaller than I expected. I thought they would be roughly the same size, but the PSB cabinet is much larger overall. Not sure about how internal volume compares. The Swans is not ported, while the PSB is.

I was only able to listen a bit so far last night, but it does seem very clear in the mids and highs. I still hear some "boxiness" on some male and female voices, but it may be due to the acoustic setting where the voices were recorded. On other voices, it is crystal clear. Supposedly, there is some break in time on these speakers, so I plan to use it for a while before making any further judgement.

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post #1602 of 3905 Old 11-19-2008, 08:39 AM
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Can I get some impressions of the R3's as surrounds? The 5.2R? Which would be considered the better of the two?
I'm looking to replace all of my surrounds and the Swans are near the top of the list, alot due to their asthetic appeal, as I've never heard them before.
Would perhaps getting a pair of 2.1s for the rears and either the R3's or 5.2Rs for the sides? Or just go with 4 of the same?
Thanks for any advice and experiences.
Sean
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post #1603 of 3905 Old 11-19-2008, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Seems to have arrived in good condition. Compared to my PSB cc570v.3, the Diva is smaller than I expected. I thought they would be roughly the same size, but the PSB cabinet is much larger overall. Not sure about how internal volume compares. The Swans is not ported, while the PSB is.

I was only able to listen a bit so far last night, but it does seem very clear in the mids and highs. I still hear some "boxiness" on some male and female voices, but it may be due to the acoustic setting where the voices were recorded. On other voices, it is crystal clear. Supposedly, there is some break in time on these speakers, so I plan to use it for a while before making any further judgement.

Yep, give it +200 hours and sit back in amazement at this excellent performing center.The thing I noticed most with the break in was, an increasing midrange presentation (maybe cause the treble on these tweeters seem to grab you upon first listen), once they were broken in these was an excellent balance and integration of the tweeter/midrange. Also it is worth mentioning the bass seemed to improve in terms of is tighteness and extension. Bass extension on this speaker its impressive considering its size and design

"Without music life would be a mistake." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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post #1604 of 3905 Old 11-19-2008, 08:03 PM
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By chance is anyone running Diva 6.1's for both fronts and rears....?
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post #1605 of 3905 Old 11-19-2008, 10:28 PM
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I'm wondering this also. Itching for matching rears and can't decide on diva 2.1s, R3s, or the ultimate splurge another set of 6.1s!

I have a 5.1 setup now because my couch is on the back wall of a 22' x 14' room

----------------------------
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Marantz 7002
Swan Diva 6.1, C3 Fronts
Mirage Omni 150 Surrounds
ED a2-300
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post #1606 of 3905 Old 11-19-2008, 10:40 PM
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I would love to find a set of M10's for my PC, but I am having little luck
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post #1607 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 07:56 AM
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I would love to find a set of M10's for my PC, but I am having little luck

Drop us a line - they're in ready stock.

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post #1608 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Seems to have arrived in good condition. Compared to my PSB cc570v.3, the Diva is smaller than I expected. I thought they would be roughly the same size, but the PSB cabinet is much larger overall. Not sure about how internal volume compares. The Swans is not ported, while the PSB is.

I was only able to listen a bit so far last night, but it does seem very clear in the mids and highs. I still hear some "boxiness" on some male and female voices, but it may be due to the acoustic setting where the voices were recorded. On other voices, it is crystal clear. Supposedly, there is some break in time on these speakers, so I plan to use it for a while before making any further judgement.

Thanks for the comments mtrot. Keep us posted on the progress with break-inI think you'll be quite surprised at what a difference it makes with the C3 (you'd be surprised how many emails we get about break-in changes with the entire Diva line). After about 75 hours, the tweeter should calm down a bit and the speaker as a whole will become much more coherent. Up through 100-150 hours, low frequency response will continue to extend and the midrange will become significantly more audible. As you've noted - the C3 is indeed a non-ported design. This is intentional - and is the result of hundreds of hours of real-world in-room testing and R&D during the initial Diva design phase. All major multi-channel HT formats (Dolby Digital, DTS, THX, etc.) mix the center channel with an 80 Hz crossover point. This crossover point isn't a "brick wall" but more of a sharp slope. As a result, it's still VERY important that the C3 be able to play well below 80 Hz, though it doesn't need to reproduce significant output below this level (unlike the fronts in a full range music system).

As I'm sure you already know (but for those that may not) - porting a speaker is a way to achieve greater air movement (which translates to better bass response) in a smaller cabinet - and is thus great for main/floorstanding speakers like the 6.1 (as the cabinet would need to be much bigger to produce the same low frequency energy if this speaker was sealed). On the other hand, a sealed cabinet will typically offer a much tighter and more accurate response (a property known as acoustic suspension). Take the C3 for examplethe volume of air inside the cabinet is fixed - nothing comes in and nothing goes out. Through the simple laws of physics, this constant air volume actually controls the movement of the driverswhen a driver fires out, a vacuum is created inside the cabinet, thus "pulling" it back in. On the other hand, when the driver recoils inside the cabinet, the increase in pressure creates a spring that "pushes" the cone back out. It's this opposition of movement (favoring a "neutral" position) that gives the C3 its incredible detail and accuracywhile the substantial cabinet volume and dual 6.5" woofers provide enough energy to produce a substantial midbass punch from 40-80Hz.

In addition, porting a cabinet (especially rear porting) can make placement in a "normal" living environment (i.e. anything short of a dedicated theater) very difficult. Because of the air movement in and out of a ported enclosure, the energy off the back of a driver is reflected inside the cabinet and eventually sent out through the port. This can cause some serious frequency/imaging problems if not placed carefully (often in an acoustically treated environment). Many of our customers are using their C3's inside a cabinet, under a TV, against a wall, etc...and the C3 responds very well to this kind of placement - without sacrificing performance.

Sorry for the long post. In a nutshell - give your C3 some time and let us know how it works out for you.

Steve Ozmai
OZ Home Theater, LLC
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post #1609 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikethewxguy View Post

By chance is anyone running Diva 6.1's for both fronts and rears....?

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the post. I'm sure a couple dual 6.1 owners will pop up shortly to give you their feedback - though I can tell you that we have quite a few customers running dual 6.1 + C3 systems (mainly a result of our prices offered on the 6.1's…which, unfortunately, will be going up on January 1st). There are several benefits to a dual 6.1 based system - including the fact that you can tear your house down with the low frequency output (always a fun experiment).

Outside of the obvious increased bass response, this configuration also allows you to set a much lower crossover point for the entire system - thus playing more of the "visceral" midbass energy through both front and back channels, rather than mixing all of this energy into a single channel and sending it to the subwoofer in the corner of the room. With discrete digital multi-channel formats (i.e. Dolby Digital and DTS), this translates to better positional bass response - meaning you'll hear low frequency effects in specific locations (i.e. front left or back right) rather than just from the sub alone (especially as you get closer to 80 Hz - as low frequency energy tends to be a bit more localized at this frequency).

Another significant benefit to a dual 6.1 system is in its multi-channel music performance. If you currently have - or plan on - a SACD or DVD-A player for your system - the dual 6.1 system is definitely the way to go. These formats do not have integrated bass management like home theater formats. To preserve the true integrity of the recording, engineers in SACD and DVD-A formats mix 100% of the original recording into 5 speakers…no sub. While you can add aftermarket bass management, SACD and DVD-A engineers recommend the use of a full range monopole speaker (like the 6.1), for both front and rear channels, for best performance.

If you've got the space and the world's most understanding wife/girlfriend…I say go for it!

Steve Ozmai
OZ Home Theater, LLC
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post #1610 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 03:19 PM
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Well,folks i sent the F2.2F's back and the F5F's arrived yesterday,but 1 of the bottom sections was marked Black on the crate which is the color I wanted,actually turned out to be Merlot,so the black bottom section will be here next week,I will post pictures on here or over on Nuance's thread.
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post #1611 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 03:58 PM
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Tawaun,

I was reading a review by someone on av123 about the f2.2s and they were raving about it being the perfect speaker. What were your impressions?
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post #1612 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 06:50 PM
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Tawaun,

I was reading a review by someone on av123 about the f2.2s and they were raving about it being the perfect speaker. What were your impressions?

The F2.2F is awsome,the best speaker I've heard at their price,very good balance,very very deep bass down to the upper 20's to mid 20's very musical,very tough to beat.
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post #1613 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ozmai View Post

Thanks for the comments mtrot. Keep us posted on the progress with break-in…I think you'll be quite surprised at what a difference it makes with the C3 (you'd be surprised how many emails we get about break-in changes with the entire Diva line). After about 75 hours, the tweeter should calm down a bit and the speaker as a whole will become much more coherent. Up through 100-150 hours, low frequency response will continue to extend and the midrange will become significantly more audible. As you've noted - the C3 is indeed a non-ported design. This is intentional - and is the result of hundreds of hours of real-world in-room testing and R&D during the initial Diva design phase. All major multi-channel HT formats (Dolby Digital, DTS, THX, etc.) mix the center channel with an 80 Hz crossover point. This crossover point isn't a "brick wall" but more of a sharp slope. As a result, it's still VERY important that the C3 be able to play well below 80 Hz, though it doesn't need to reproduce significant output below this level (unlike the fronts in a full range music system).

As I'm sure you already know (but for those that may not) - porting a speaker is a way to achieve greater air movement (which translates to better bass response) in a smaller cabinet - and is thus great for main/floorstanding speakers like the 6.1 (as the cabinet would need to be much bigger to produce the same low frequency energy if this speaker was sealed). On the other hand, a sealed cabinet will typically offer a much tighter and more accurate response (a property known as acoustic suspension). Take the C3 for example…the volume of air inside the cabinet is fixed - nothing comes in and nothing goes out. Through the simple laws of physics, this constant air volume actually controls the movement of the drivers…when a driver fires out, a vacuum is created inside the cabinet, thus "pulling" it back in. On the other hand, when the driver recoils inside the cabinet, the increase in pressure creates a spring that "pushes" the cone back out. It's this opposition of movement (favoring a "neutral" position) that gives the C3 its incredible detail and accuracy…while the substantial cabinet volume and dual 6.5" woofers provide enough energy to produce a substantial midbass punch from 40-80Hz.

Steve,
My findings are in complete agreement with yours in regards to the C3 on breaking in, I will add that once i put 3 Audiopoints 2AP.7D spikes with the APCD2 coupling discs under the C3, the gains became quite apparent and I highly reccomend them as a tweak...as well as the herbie grungebuster dots

"Without music life would be a mistake." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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post #1614 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 07:19 PM
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Steve,

Many thanks for your detailed response regarding using dual 6.1's...lets just say that I am now very close to pulling the trigger on another set.

My rationale behind this is that if the Microsoft Live Cashback promo were to end tomorrow - a set of 6.1's (with the cashback promo factored in) wouldn't be all that much more than the R3's would be without the promo Another plus is that I will not have to buy rear stands or mess with mounting the R3's....
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post #1615 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ozmai View Post

Thanks for the comments mtrot. Keep us posted on the progress with break-inI think you'll be quite surprised at what a difference it makes with the C3 (you'd be surprised how many emails we get about break-in changes with the entire Diva line). After about 75 hours, the tweeter should calm down a bit and the speaker as a whole will become much more coherent. Up through 100-150 hours, low frequency response will continue to extend and the midrange will become significantly more audible. As you've noted - the C3 is indeed a non-ported design. This is intentional - and is the result of hundreds of hours of real-world in-room testing and R&D during the initial Diva design phase. All major multi-channel HT formats (Dolby Digital, DTS, THX, etc.) mix the center channel with an 80 Hz crossover point. This crossover point isn't a "brick wall" but more of a sharp slope. As a result, it's still VERY important that the C3 be able to play well below 80 Hz, though it doesn't need to reproduce significant output below this level (unlike the fronts in a full range music system).

As I'm sure you already know (but for those that may not) - porting a speaker is a way to achieve greater air movement (which translates to better bass response) in a smaller cabinet - and is thus great for main/floorstanding speakers like the 6.1 (as the cabinet would need to be much bigger to produce the same low frequency energy if this speaker was sealed). On the other hand, a sealed cabinet will typically offer a much tighter and more accurate response (a property known as acoustic suspension). Take the C3 for examplethe volume of air inside the cabinet is fixed - nothing comes in and nothing goes out. Through the simple laws of physics, this constant air volume actually controls the movement of the driverswhen a driver fires out, a vacuum is created inside the cabinet, thus "pulling" it back in. On the other hand, when the driver recoils inside the cabinet, the increase in pressure creates a spring that "pushes" the cone back out. It's this opposition of movement (favoring a "neutral" position) that gives the C3 its incredible detail and accuracywhile the substantial cabinet volume and dual 6.5" woofers provide enough energy to produce a substantial midbass punch from 40-80Hz.

In addition, porting a cabinet (especially rear porting) can make placement in a "normal" living environment (i.e. anything short of a dedicated theater) very difficult. Because of the air movement in and out of a ported enclosure, the energy off the back of a driver is reflected inside the cabinet and eventually sent out through the port. This can cause some serious frequency/imaging problems if not placed carefully (often in an acoustically treated environment). Many of our customers are using their C3's inside a cabinet, under a TV, against a wall, etc...and the C3 responds very well to this kind of placement - without sacrificing performance.

Sorry for the long post. In a nutshell - give your C3 some time and let us know how it works out for you.

Steve,

Thanks for the info. A couple other questions:

I have my crossover set at 80hz, but from your post, I would conclude I could set it to 60hz with no problem, right? I like to set the crossover as low as possible, but some center speakers seem to me to get congested and lose clarity as the volume goes up, if the crossover is down at 60 or so.

Also, I have the C3 sitting directly on top of my Mits CRT RPTV, with the C3 tilted downward, due to the top of the TV being so high. Is it vital to isolate the C3 from the TV?

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post #1616 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ozmai View Post

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the post. I'm sure a couple dual 6.1 owners will pop up shortly to give you their feedback - though I can tell you that we have quite a few customers running dual 6.1 + C3 systems (mainly a result of our prices offered on the 6.1'swhich, unfortunately, will be going up on January 1st). There are several benefits to a dual 6.1 based system - including the fact that you can tear your house down with the low frequency output (always a fun experiment).

Outside of the obvious increased bass response, this configuration also allows you to set a much lower crossover point for the entire system - thus playing more of the "visceral" midbass energy through both front and back channels, rather than mixing all of this energy into a single channel and sending it to the subwoofer in the corner of the room. With discrete digital multi-channel formats (i.e. Dolby Digital and DTS), this translates to better positional bass response - meaning you'll hear low frequency effects in specific locations (i.e. front left or back right) rather than just from the sub alone (especially as you get closer to 80 Hz - as low frequency energy tends to be a bit more localized at this frequency).

Another significant benefit to a dual 6.1 system is in its multi-channel music performance. If you currently have - or plan on - a SACD or DVD-A player for your system - the dual 6.1 system is definitely the way to go. These formats do not have integrated bass management like home theater formats. To preserve the true integrity of the recording, engineers in SACD and DVD-A formats mix 100% of the original recording into 5 speakersno sub. While you can add aftermarket bass management, SACD and DVD-A engineers recommend the use of a full range monopole speaker (like the 6.1), for both front and rear channels, for best performance.

If you've got the space and the world's most understanding wife/girlfriendI say go for it!

I'm heartened to hear you acknowledge the benefit of large surrounds with respect to positional bass in movie soundtracks. I have gone round and round a bit with some(who maintain that deep bass is non-directional) AVSers on this topic. I actually hear a lot of directional bass effects in the surrounds on certain movies(Try War of the Worlds). My surrounds are PSB Image 5T towers, which are not huge, but can certainly go down to ~40hz. My front L/R are Legacy Signature IIs, which can go down to almost 20hz.

I actually don't even set them to small in the receiver setup. I set my front mains and my surrounds to large, so I get a full range signal to them. I only set my center to small. This is not to bad a problem for my receiver because I don't listen to movies that loud anyway, no where near reference levels.

I also agree about the benefits of the large surrounds for SACD and DVD-A. BTW, they do have the sub channel on the SACD and DVD-A multi-channel releases.

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post #1617 of 3905 Old 11-20-2008, 08:10 PM
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The higher the frequency the easier it is to localize bass. Usually bass is hard to localize below 80 IIRC. The added advantage of having bass coming from multiple sources is that it reduces room nodes.
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post #1618 of 3905 Old 11-21-2008, 10:08 AM
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Steve Ozmai - please check your PM. Thanks.
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post #1619 of 3905 Old 11-21-2008, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SeanCJ View Post

Can I get some impressions of the R3's as surrounds? The 5.2R? Which would be considered the better of the two?
Would perhaps getting a pair of 2.1e's for the rears and either the R3's or 5.2Rs for the sides? Or just go with 4 of the same?
Thanks for any advice and experiences.
Sean

Anyone?
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post #1620 of 3905 Old 11-21-2008, 07:03 PM
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Is the Swan D2.1SE in Piano Black still available for $499?
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