Definitive Technology ProCinema Series 600/800/1000 (or 60/80/100) Thread - Page 197 - AVS Forum
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post #5881 of 7290 Old 02-15-2012, 04:40 PM
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Plex, thanks for your help. I may just go with the Denon AVR-2112CI to pick up the MultiEQ XT. I wasn't big on the Marantz, but HiDef Lifestyle sells them locally and a salesman there was promoting Marantz as their go to line.

As for the surround speakers, I'm currently trying to work a deal on some used BP2X's.

For the front center, I'm still torn as to whether to go with the ProCenter 2000 w/ ProMonitor 1000's or just go with the ProCenter 1000 and ProMonitor 800's. If I understand correctly, I should try and match the front driver diameters (please confirm). I'm just concerned that the ProCenter 2000's height may be a bit much in front/under the TV monitor frame. The 2000 may also conflict with the TV remote control (not sure). I may see if I can borrow a ProCenter 2000 from somewhere to see how it fits. It seems Longbow is pleased with the ProCenter 1000 and Pro Monitor 800's. Decisions Decisions...

Plex, It's been a while but I finally got my Denon AVR 2112CI, Def Tech ProCenter 2000, ProMonitor 1000 fronts and I picked up a used pair of BP2X's. I'm pleased with the system and got a nice package deal from HiDEF Lifestyle in Harrisburg, PA. I have a few questions for the experts:

What is the proper way to set the distance between the front left and front right speakers? I'ver read about the 22 to 30 degree angle off the center listening position to locate the left and right speakers. What's the best method for positioning? Can they be too far apart or too close to the TV? There are three images of my family room about 3 pages back for reference.

Plex mentioned something about keeping the speaker main cable lengths equal. Does this pertain to the left and right fronts or also the center? Should the left and right rear surround speaker cable lengths also be the same? I'm running all the 14 AWG speaker cable from www.monoprice.com in the wall as much as possible. Just curious as to whether I should attempt to keep the lengths equal by adding a coil to obtain equivalent speaker length?
Lastly, I am interested in purchasing something other than a DT sub. Can you suggest a sub from a sub specific manufacturer (i.e. HSU, SVS or other) that would do well with theatre and stereo music? I can't go with the vertical cylinder subs given the WAF. Instead, I have to hide it under an end table or beside the couch or a chair.

Let me know your thoughts, your help is greatly appreciated.
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post #5882 of 7290 Old 02-15-2012, 10:50 PM
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Hey,

Just wondering if my center channel fits well with my other speakers.


I currently have:
Denon AVR 1912
4x PM1000's
1x C/L/R 2002
1x SVS PB12NSD sub

I like the way everything sounds but I'm just not sure if my center really fits in with this system. I looked at the PC2000 and don't like its size and sound.

I am now contemplating to return the C/L/R 2002 for a DefTech 8040. The 8040 apparently has smaller drivers but is supposed to sound better? And I don't know if it would suit my other surround speakers.

Thanks for any help!

Ray

Projector: AE7000
Screen: 5x12 Wilson Art Laminate Designer White
Receiver: Denon 2112Ci
Fronts: DefTech 8020ST
Center: DefTech 8040HD
Side Surround: DefTech SR 8040 BPs
Rear Surround: DefTech PM 1000s
Subwoofers: 2x HSU VTF 15H's
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post #5883 of 7290 Old 02-16-2012, 11:59 AM
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Hello all, FYI - the new Studio Monitor 45 and 55 are now shipping. The SM 65 will begin shipping soon. Info is up on the Definitive web site now - Best, Joe
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post #5884 of 7290 Old 02-16-2012, 12:10 PM
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I am a owner of the Definitive Technology Promonitor 800's with a pioneer vsx-1020. I had just ordered a pair of studio monitor 350's for ($250) will this setup mesh well together?
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post #5885 of 7290 Old 02-16-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehza View Post

Hey,

Just wondering if my center channel fits well with my other speakers.


I currently have:
Denon AVR 1912
4x PM1000's
1x C/L/R 2002
1x SVS PB12NSD sub

I like the way everything sounds but I'm just not sure if my center really fits in with this system. I looked at the PC2000 and don't like its size and sound.

I am now contemplating to return the C/L/R 2002 for a DefTech 8040. The 8040 apparently has smaller drivers but is supposed to sound better? And I don't know if it would suit my other surround speakers.

Thanks for any help!

Ray

Basic rule of thumb is, same sized drivers across the LCR gives best timber balance "Speakers from the same brand and model line "should" be timbre matched. Basically this means if a sound pans from Left to Center to Right it should sound seemless. Exactly the same across the front sound stage just at different directions."

the PC2000 has the same exact speakers as the PM1000 and will be the best timber match. Listening to the center seperatly may not give you a sence of how the sound really should be.

Audyssey
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post #5886 of 7290 Old 02-16-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post

Basic rule of thumb is, same sized drivers across the LCR gives best timber balance "Speakers from the same brand and model line "should" be timbre matched. Basically this means if a sound pans from Left to Center to Right it should sound seemless. Exactly the same across the front sound stage just at different directions."

the PC2000 has the same exact speakers as the PM1000 and will be the best timber match. Listening to the center seperatly may not give you a sence of how the sound really should be.


Excellent info. I went ahead and purchased 2x 8020STs Floor Stands and 1x 8040HD Center. This should be a great overall improvement for my system I think. The Floorstands have 3 each 3-1/2" (9cm) midrange drivers and the Center has 2 each 4-1/2" BDSS bass/midrange. If I wanted to match the driver size, I would have to buy the much more expensive 8060ST series. I hope the 8020St's will work with the center..... or did I make a mistake? I know, hi-jacking the ProMonitor thread with my Floorstanding speaker questions, sorry.

Ray

Projector: AE7000
Screen: 5x12 Wilson Art Laminate Designer White
Receiver: Denon 2112Ci
Fronts: DefTech 8020ST
Center: DefTech 8040HD
Side Surround: DefTech SR 8040 BPs
Rear Surround: DefTech PM 1000s
Subwoofers: 2x HSU VTF 15H's
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post #5887 of 7290 Old 02-16-2012, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by raehza View Post

Excellent info. I went ahead and purchased 2x 8020STs Floor Stands and 1x 8040HD Center. This should be a great overall improvement for my system I think. The Floorstands have 3 each 3-1/2" (9cm) midrange drivers and the Center has 2 each 4-1/2" BDSS bass/midrange. If I wanted to match the driver size, I would have to buy the much more expensive 8060ST series. I hope the 8020St's will work with the center..... or did I make a mistake? I know, hi-jacking the ProMonitor thread with my Floorstanding speaker questions, sorry.

Ray

no worries

I know its tuff to get a timber match when buying new front ends but dod the best you can with the money you have. Your AVR's cal system will help balance those small differences. I know we are mostly loosing you to the main thread but if you have any questions about most anything, sub, cables, rears...come on back

Audyssey
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post #5888 of 7290 Old 02-16-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pigpiles View Post

I am a owner of the Definitive Technology Promonitor 800's with a pioneer vsx-1020. I had just ordered a pair of studio monitor 350's for ($250) will this setup mesh well together?

YES!!! what center will you use with the 350? If its the PC1000 you may want to jump to the PC2000 and you could go to baja and pick up a 2000 for <$200. the 350 will over power the PC1000, if money is short right now you may have to boost the level ofthe center even after calibration.ake up a 7.1 system

Are you going to use the old mains [800's] to

Audyssey
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post #5889 of 7290 Old 02-16-2012, 05:40 PM
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YES!!! what center will you use with the 350? If its the PC1000 you may want to jump to the PC2000 and you could go to baja and pick up a 2000 for <$200. the 350 will over power the PC1000, if money is short right now you may have to boost the level ofthe center even after calibration.ake up a 7.1 system

Are you going to use the old mains [800's] to

Yep it is the pc1000, it might take me a little while (a month or two) to get the 2000 (because of buying the 350's) . Yeah going to use them to make it a 7.1 system. Do you think i would have to boost the level a whole lot?
Thank You for your advice.

What is better: PC2000, C/L/R 2002, CS8040HD
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post #5890 of 7290 Old 02-16-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pigpiles View Post

Yep it is the pc1000, it might take me a little while (a month or two) to get the 2000 (because of buying the 350's) . Yeah going to use them to make it a 7.1 system. Do you think i would have to boost the level a whole lot?
Thank You for your advice.

What is better: PC2000, C/L/R 2002, CS8040HD

the PC2 and 2002 are very similar sound wise but the 2002 is harder to find space for, the 8040 is to new for me. You will not go wrong with the PC2000. There are few there that have even gone all PC2000 for bioth L&R, I'd do the same If I new the PC2000 was going away, the PC2 is such a stronger speaker and smooth and clear

It all dependens, if you have a wife or Girl friend, like many of us our other halves can't ever seem to hear low talking on the TV or during a movie. But if I softly mumble about her bitching about this and that she hears that LOUD and CLEAR

I don't think you'll need to boost it much, my wife has caused my center to boost 2-3 db about calibration point, so its not that bad.


Anyway, when it comes time to get the PC2000 try here first http://www.ebay.com/itm/Definitive-T...item2a1880930e

please let know what you think about the 350's

Audyssey
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post #5891 of 7290 Old 02-17-2012, 09:06 AM
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Plex, It's been a while but I finally got my Denon AVR 2112CI, Def Tech ProCenter 2000, ProMonitor 1000 fronts and I picked up a used pair of BP2X's. I'm pleased with the system and got a nice package deal from HiDEF Lifestyle in Harrisburg, PA. I have a few questions for the experts:

What is the proper way to set the distance between the front left and front right speakers? I'ver read about the 22 to 30 degree angle off the center listening position to locate the left and right speakers. What's the best method for positioning? Can they be too far apart or too close to the TV? There are three images of my family room about 3 pages back for reference.

Plex mentioned something about keeping the speaker main cable lengths equal. Does this pertain to the left and right fronts or also the center? Should the left and right rear surround speaker cable lengths also be the same? I'm running all the 14 AWG speaker cable from www.monoprice.com in the wall as much as possible. Just curious as to whether I should attempt to keep the lengths equal by adding a coil to obtain equivalent speaker length?
Lastly, I am interested in purchasing something other than a DT sub. Can you suggest a sub from a sub specific manufacturer (i.e. HSU, SVS or other) that would do well with theatre and stereo music? I can't go with the vertical cylinder subs given the WAF. Instead, I have to hide it under an end table or beside the couch or a chair.

Let me know your thoughts, your help is greatly appreciated.

I'm looking for a little help with the above questions and I am anxious to identify a sub to close out my sysytem. Any thoughts or suggestions, keeping in mind the above concerns, is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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post #5892 of 7290 Old 02-17-2012, 11:52 AM
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I'm looking for a little help with the above questions and I am anxious to identify a sub to close out my sysytem. Any thoughts or suggestions, keeping in mind the above concerns, is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I tried to listen to most subs but many are not avalible in stiores. So I did tons or research and ended up with 2 SVS cylinders Try the SuperCube series, from DT they are small but strong, you could try used or best bet get from baja http://stores.ebay.com/bajawaverunne...=p4634.c0.m322SCI is a very nice sub

Audyssey
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post #5893 of 7290 Old 02-17-2012, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe@Definitive View Post

Hello all, FYI - the new Studio Monitor 45 and 55 are now shipping. The SM 65 will begin shipping soon. Info is up on the Definitive web site now - Best, Joe

Plex! Plex! Time to dump your old 450's!

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post #5894 of 7290 Old 02-18-2012, 06:45 AM
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Plex! Plex! Time to dump your old 450's!

Dear God Man Really If I did I'd only consider the 65's and if was going to spend that I' get 2 more PC2000's. Still the Golden Ear tower's are still in my mind

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post #5895 of 7290 Old 02-20-2012, 02:43 PM
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the PC2 and 2002 are very similar sound wise but the 2002 is harder to find space for, the 8040 is to new for me. You will not go wrong with the PC2000. There are few there that have even gone all PC2000 for bioth L&R, I'd do the same If I new the PC2000 was going away, the PC2 is such a stronger speaker and smooth and clear

It all dependens, if you have a wife or Girl friend, like many of us our other halves can't ever seem to hear low talking on the TV or during a movie. But if I softly mumble about her bitching about this and that she hears that LOUD and CLEAR

I don't think you'll need to boost it much, my wife has caused my center to boost 2-3 db about calibration point, so its not that bad.


Anyway, when it comes time to get the PC2000 try here first http://www.ebay.com/itm/Definitive-T...item2a1880930e

please let know what you think about the 350's

Just got the 350's hooked up so far i like them, but right now i have them connected with 16 awg cable (waiting on 12 awg cable to arrive). They are connected into the subwoofer ( waiting on LFE cable to arrive) so i can hook directly to receiver.

Do you think changing those two things will help dramatically with the sound? Oh and for the break in time is there anything special i need to do?

When i calibrated the speakers it kept giving me an error saying that my center channel wires was crossed (double checked and they were right) then it would also add one of the rears with the same error ( not every time).

Do you think that could be my speaker cable? or my receiver?

Thank You.
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post #5896 of 7290 Old 02-20-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pigpiles View Post



When i calibrated the speakers it kept giving me an error saying that my center channel wires was crossed (double checked and they were right) then it would also add one of the rears with the same error ( not every time).

Do you think that could be my speaker cable? or my receiver?

Thank You.

If audyssey gives you occasional phase errors, verify the connections on both the speaker and receiver then ignore the error. Happens rarely when calibrating my surrounds.

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post #5897 of 7290 Old 02-20-2012, 09:56 PM
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Hi All,

I have two pairs of less than a year old Studio Monitor 450s for sale in excellent condition. Please PM me if interested.
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post #5898 of 7290 Old 02-21-2012, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pigpiles View Post

Just got the 350's hooked up so far i like them, but right now i have them connected with 16 awg cable (waiting on 12 awg cable to arrive). They are connected into the subwoofer ( waiting on LFE cable to arrive) so i can hook directly to receiver.

Do you think changing those two things will help dramatically with the sound? Oh and for the break in time is there anything special i need to do?

When i calibrated the speakers it kept giving me an error saying that my center channel wires was crossed (double checked and they were right) then it would also add one of the rears with the same error ( not every time).

Do you think that could be my speaker cable? or my receiver?

Thank You.

Just to be clear, you have the 350 conneted to the sub, right? If so that's ok for the short term but when you get your sub cable have evenything running thru the AVR. Use my link to Audyssey setup to understand how the sub controls are set, it does not matter if you are using Audyssey or any other cal system the sub controls will not be used.

when you have the AVR controling both speakers and sub you'll notice the affect calibration has.

As for break in, there not really much you need to do expect start logging time on the speakers, some say cranking the speakers will shorten the break in time. I think normal use will do just fine, DT states 40-50 hrs use, I think 100 hrs before they are really ready.

Now I think you should cal your speakers when you get them and every two weeks after that, two reasons. One, the first time anyone hears cal'ed speakers they think its very strange and are not sure they like the sound and want to self-calibrate, your ear are nowhere that good to make those adjustments so don't even try. Two, If you cal the speakers first thing and every two weeks after that this slow calration walks your ears to the correct way your speakers should sound in your room. Also, as they are broken in the change in sound will not be so dramatic if you only did one calibration after the break in was completed.

Very important - do not worry about the crossover points that are set after each calibration, these change as the speakers breakin and these are how your speakers sound in your room. Many revert to DT XO points, problem is those were calculated using a prefect acoustic room, which is not the same as your room.

After the last calibration is done for the 350's or any DT speaker you will bevome very spoiled and find it hard to listen to speakers that are not calibrated for a room. Be kind to your friends and try to help them find better sound thru calibration. I convinced my cousin to geta new AVR that had a calibration system [Audyssey] and he did notice the difference. he said he can now hear more detail and he is listening to older CD's just to hear what he missed before.

Audyssey
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post #5899 of 7290 Old 02-21-2012, 04:24 PM
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Hi All,

I have two pairs of less than a year old Studio Monitor 450s for sale in excellent condition. Please PM me if interested.

So are you selling to get the new SM's?

Audyssey
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post #5900 of 7290 Old 02-21-2012, 05:18 PM
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HT Setup:

4 ProMonitor 1000's
ProCenter 2000
Epik Legend Sub
Pioneer VSX-53 Receiver

I am wondering what cross over setting I should set my pioneer receiver at. Also I assume I set the speakers to small also. My receiver has 1 single crossover setting for all speakers.

If I run full MCACC the receiver sets speakers to large and crossover to 150Hz which does not seem right to me.

Also I was not sure what setting to set my Sub's crossover at.
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post #5901 of 7290 Old 02-21-2012, 05:54 PM
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80Hz is the recommended crossover for the PM1000s. While I think you can get away with 60 on the PC2000, I would go with 80 to match the rest of the speakers, and because 80 is getting to be something of a standard.

I also have 1000s and a 2000, specifically so I could cross all my speakers over at the same 80Hz with a Pioneer receiver that doesn't support different xover frequencies per speaker.

You're using the receiver's bass management, so you should not also use the sub's. That means setting the sub's crossover to bypass, or its highest setting if there's no bypass.

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80Hz is the recommended crossover for the PM1000s. While I think you can get away with 60 on the PC2000, I would go with 80 to match the rest of the speakers, and because 80 is getting to be something of a standard.

I also have 1000s and a 2000, specifically so I could cross all my speakers over at the same 80Hz with a Pioneer receiver that doesn't support different xover frequencies per speaker.

You're using the receiver's bass management, so you should not also use the sub's. That means setting the sub's crossover to bypass, or its highest setting if there's no bypass.

Okay thanks for the help. What about the speaker size, am I right to set this on small?

I also have a phase setting on my sub which has either 0 or 180 should I leave that at 0?
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post #5903 of 7290 Old 02-21-2012, 09:02 PM
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Okay thanks for the help. What about the speaker size, am I right to set this on small?

I also have a phase setting on my sub which has either 0 or 180 should I leave that at 0?

Small is correct.

Basically, the phase switch should be set to the position that produces the strongest bass at your listening position. Play music with strong, steady bass to evaluate this.

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post #5904 of 7290 Old 02-22-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raidflex View Post

HT Setup:

4 ProMonitor 1000's
ProCenter 2000
Epik Legend Sub
Pioneer VSX-53 Receiver

I am wondering what cross over setting I should set my pioneer receiver at. Also I assume I set the speakers to small also. My receiver has 1 single crossover setting for all speakers.

If I run full MCACC the receiver sets speakers to large and crossover to 150Hz which does not seem right to me.

Also I was not sure what setting to set my Sub's crossover at.

Set the speakers to small unless the AVR has already done this.

Let MCACC determine what to set the XO. crossover points that are set after each calibration will change as the speakers breakin and these are how your speakers sound in your room. Many revert to DT XO points, problem is those were calculated using a prefect acoustic room, which is not the same as your room.

Your AVR knows what its doing and the calibration computer is telling the system your speakers should be set to this OX based on the reading from the microphone placement. Does your MCACC offer more than one postion for mic placement, I thought I read this was going to be added on new AVR to help give better sound

Are you using a tripod to place the mic on, this is very important and is the placement on your seat or infront of it and at ear level. These might seem small items but you are calibrating the sound for your ears and mic placment is very important.

Audyssey
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post #5905 of 7290 Old 02-22-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raidflex View Post

HT Setup:

4 ProMonitor 1000's
ProCenter 2000
Epik Legend Sub
Pioneer VSX-53 Receiver

I am wondering what cross over setting I should set my pioneer receiver at. Also I assume I set the speakers to small also. My receiver has 1 single crossover setting for all speakers.

If I run full MCACC the receiver sets speakers to large and crossover to 150Hz which does not seem right to me.

Also I was not sure what setting to set my Sub's crossover at.

You really don't want to say this speaker should be crossed over at 80Hz period. That does not take into account your room, speaker placement and listener placement. All of which impact the auto cal systems choice of 150hz. Tell us about those things.

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post #5906 of 7290 Old 02-22-2012, 04:19 PM
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You really don't want to say this speaker should be crossed over at 80Hz period. That does not take into account your room, speaker placement and listener placement. All of which impact the auto cal systems choice of 150hz. Tell us about those things.

If MCACC chose 150Hz with these speakers, there is something wrong. Maybe with the room, maybe with the speaker or subwoofer placement, maybe with the calibration. But it shouldn't be accepted; it's too much of a compromise, too much of a waste of the mid-bass capabilities of these very good speakers. They don't sound like satellites specifically because they are so strong between 80 and 120Hz.

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post #5907 of 7290 Old 02-22-2012, 11:25 PM
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Well the 350's i got one of them has a blown speaker. I also hooked up the subwoofer with lfe and the sub doesnt work hooked up that way . I will be sending the 350's back and not sure what to do about the sub.

Since i am returning these 350's just going to upgrade and get the 450's.

When i plug the cable into the sub it does make a quick sound but no other sound is made. Any suggestions on getting the sub to work would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You
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post #5908 of 7290 Old 02-23-2012, 12:24 AM
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guys, can you pls tell me what is the best crossover for procinema 800 (procenter 1000 + promonitor 800)

currently I had set it to 150 (max) but is it necessary or should I lower

thanks in advance
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post #5909 of 7290 Old 02-23-2012, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Plex View Post

Make sure you get the PC2000 with the PM1000 mains and not the PC1000, I think the PC1000 is part of the ProCinema 1000 system, you'd want the ProCinema 1000 Plus system . The PC1000 is meant to be used with the PM800's check driver size for both and you'll see the PC1000 uses a smaller driver. Another way is to use another PM1000 as a center. Three of the same speakers across the front is ideal but many of us can't fit a mains speaker in most cabinets center space. So the PC2000 is the next best bet same size drivers as the PM1000's

Now you could save some money by getting PM800's for the rears and sides. It is not a rule the rears must be the same size as the front of the system.

Does the Pioneer have a sub calibration section if so that will help a lot.

Hi Plex, I have been reading a lot of your posts here and got myself a procinema 800 set (procenter 1000 + 4 promonitor 800 + prosub 800)

I am so far happy with the sound quality I am geting with my denon 1912 which is UK version and has multeq XT,

the audyssey set the speakers crossed to 100, but I increased it to 120 and sometimes 150, first thing, what would you recommend as optimum crossover

now for music listening...is the PM800 sufficient to sound good with music or do I need to upgrade it to PM1000 ? I like to hear all details in music

my room size is not that much its around 350 sq feets, so getting a procenter 2000 + PM 1000 will be a overkill ?

kindly suggest if my system need any upgradation...thanks
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post #5910 of 7290 Old 02-23-2012, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpiles View Post

Well the 350's i got one of them has a blown speaker. I also hooked up the subwoofer with lfe and the sub doesnt work hooked up that way . I will be sending the 350's back and not sure what to do about the sub.

Since i am returning these 350's just going to upgrade and get the 450's.

When i plug the cable into the sub it does make a quick sound but no other sound is made. Any suggestions on getting the sub to work would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

Make sure the AVR knows you now have a sub, try running the cal step with speaker and sub hooked up. I've read that this sometimes happens and you need to make sure the AVR knows to look for a sub

Audyssey
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