Definitive Technology ProCinema Series 600/800/1000 (or 60/80/100) Thread - Page 198 - AVS Forum
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post #5911 of 7287 Old 02-23-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Plex View Post

Make sure the AVR knows you now have a sub, try running the cal step with speaker and sub hooked up. I've read that this sometimes happens and you need to make sure the AVR knows to look for a sub

I tried the cal and check the settings several times and it is a no go.

If it is the receiver, i have possibly found a replacement for cheap a vsx 921. Is it better than the 1020.
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post #5912 of 7287 Old 02-23-2012, 10:58 AM
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any suggestion on my previous post for crossover on 800 ?
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post #5913 of 7287 Old 02-23-2012, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by pigpiles View Post

I tried the cal and check the settings several times and it is a no go.

If it is the receiver, i have possibly found a replacement for cheap a vsx 921. Is it better than the 1020.

Since you are talking Pioneer, I'm not a good source, but since you are considering a new AVR try to find one that may have a better bass managment system [XO for eack speaker set]

Ok, I just wanted you to make sure all settings where checked before you blamed the AVR

Audyssey setup guide
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post #5914 of 7287 Old 02-23-2012, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saj2001ind View Post

Hi Plex, I have been reading a lot of your posts here and got myself a procinema 800 set (procenter 1000 + 4 promonitor 800 + prosub 800)

I am so far happy with the sound quality I am geting with my denon 1912 which is UK version and has multeq XT,

the audyssey set the speakers crossed to 100, but I increased it to 120 and sometimes 150, first thing, what would you recommend as optimum crossover

now for music listening...is the PM800 sufficient to sound good with music or do I need to upgrade it to PM1000 ? I like to hear all details in music

my room size is not that much its around 350 sq feets, so getting a procenter 2000 + PM 1000 will be a overkill ?

kindly suggest if my system need any upgradation...thanks

First, great AVR and to also have the MultEQ XT on top is unreal

Please remind me, what is the age of your system, and have you played around with the number of calibration positions much? If I remember correctly you can do 8 positions.

The age thing is just to make sure you have enough hours in play time for the speakers to be fully broken in. Even though DT states 40-60 hrs to break in I stand by 100 hrs before they are truely streched out.

If you are getting 100 Hz XO than leave it there, it sounds like your 8's are getting to the max break in point or are almost there. i had my SM 450's drop from 120Hz when new down to 100 and finished at 80Hz.

I'm sitting at

mains = 80 Hz
Center = 100 Hz
rears = 80 Hz
Sub = 80Hz

I think play time will setttle your speakers but if you change positions of a chair or add even a small table, do the a calibration.

My 3808CI also has the MultEQ XT, and doing all positions was a bit trying at times, but I found a great enough change in XO's to warannt doing all 8.

As for room size and speaker size the 8's should do every well in that sized room and I don't think you'll hear the cost difference if you upgraded to the 1000/2000. Now, with the new SM's hitting the market you may be able to find someone selling the older SM350/450's. going from the 8's the the 350 would be a noticable sound difference and possibly worth keeping an eye out for that. IMHO the SM350/450 speakers give more detail to music than the PM's and are a better stand alone speaker if needed [if budget can't swing sub].

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post #5915 of 7287 Old 02-23-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

If MCACC chose 150Hz with these speakers, there is something wrong. Maybe with the room, maybe with the speaker or subwoofer placement, maybe with the calibration. But it shouldn't be accepted; it's too much of a compromise, too much of a waste of the mid-bass capabilities of these very good speakers. They don't sound like satellites specifically because they are so strong between 80 and 120Hz.


I don't think its a compromise at this point, now if the system was a year or two old, then yes, further work would be need to explain this 150Hz.

It sounds like the speakers are new enough not to be broken in fully so having the lowest and best XO may be too much to ask for right now. As I said, get those play time hours in and do repeated calibrations, this 150Hz value should drop. If this doesn't change, let us know we all will pitch in to help, right?

Now if its a room issue that will take time pinning down what is doing what to affect the absorbance of those bass notes that are giving a need to set the XO to 150Hz reading. I"m not a fan of an AVR that gives a one pass XO for all channels. But one does not learn this until the issue comes up and you see why those small features are just not fluff to drive the price higher.

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post #5916 of 7287 Old 02-23-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post

So are you selling to get the new SM's?

No I bought BP-2000TLs and a CLR-3000.

I like SM 450s a lot and I am keeping a pair as front heights (they have the same 6.5" driver as BP-2000TLs and CLR-3000).
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post #5917 of 7287 Old 02-23-2012, 05:15 PM
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[quote=Plex;21688904]Since you are talking Pioneer, I'm not a good source, but since you are considering a new AVR try to find one that may have a better bass managment system [XO for eack speaker set]

Ok, I just wanted you to make sure all settings where checked before you blamed the AVR[/QUO

Not for sure if it is the sub or the avr. Im going to guess maybe the avr. Been doing alot of research and have decided to get the Denon 2112.
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post #5918 of 7287 Old 02-23-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post

First, great AVR and to also have the MultEQ XT on top is unreal

Please remind me, what is the age of your system, and have you played around with the number of calibration positions much? If I remember correctly you can do 8 positions.

The age thing is just to make sure you have enough hours in play time for the speakers to be fully broken in. Even though DT states 40-60 hrs to break in I stand by 100 hrs before they are truely streched out.

If you are getting 100 Hz XO than leave it there, it sounds like your 8's are getting to the max break in point or are almost there. i had my SM 450's drop from 120Hz when new down to 100 and finished at 80Hz.

I'm sitting at

mains = 80 Hz
Center = 100 Hz
rears = 80 Hz
Sub = 80Hz

I think play time will setttle your speakers but if you change positions of a chair or add even a small table, do the a calibration.

My 3808CI also has the MultEQ XT, and doing all positions was a bit trying at times, but I found a great enough change in XO's to warannt doing all 8.

As for room size and speaker size the 8's should do every well in that sized room and I don't think you'll hear the cost difference if you upgraded to the 1000/2000. Now, with the new SM's hitting the market you may be able to find someone selling the older SM350/450's. going from the 8's the the 350 would be a noticable sound difference and possibly worth keeping an eye out for that. IMHO the SM350/450 speakers give more detail to music than the PM's and are a better stand alone speaker if needed [if budget can't swing sub].

thanks buddy for your response, I have been using this system for past 2 months now and it is used for approx 8-10 hrs daily as it is hooked to my sat box as well and TV runs a lot at my home I also play a lot of blurays and hidef mkv files

will do the calibration again and yeah since 1912 is from UK it has the very necessary multeq XT

one more question though, so the procinema 800 package is recommended for how big a room, or rather what is the limit of procinema 800 package and from what room size should we go for 1000 with procenter 2000 ?

If you can give me the room size in square feets thats will be helpful for me analyse thanks again
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post #5919 of 7287 Old 02-25-2012, 12:33 AM
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Last week I picked up a df tech pro 600 package, and was loving it so much the following week I wanted to make it a 7.1 system so I picked up 2 def tech pro 1,000's . For the front left and right and put the 600's for surround . Everything sounded great my living room is only 17X15 . I loved the 1,000's so much this following week I picked up 2 more and replaced the 2 surround back left and right , I left 2 600's for the left and right 7.1 set up . And now since I have 4 1000's I then purchased a pro center 2000 for the center . And now I'm really enjoying the system more I left the subwoofer alone that came with the pro600 it's fine for the 17X15 room. So now I have taken the 2 left over 600's and 600 center and put them in my bedroom for my computer setup!!! Lol I think I went a little crazy I should have just put a 1000 system together but I'm happy how it all ended up . In the later future I might upgrade the subwoofer . But for now I think it's time to put my bank card away hahahah. I think I did have a def tech overload! But I'm loving it!!!!!
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post #5920 of 7287 Old 02-25-2012, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by W2GOD View Post

Last week I picked up a df tech pro 600 package, and was loving it so much the following week I wanted to make it a 7.1 system so I picked up 2 def tech pro 1,000's . For the front left and right and put the 600's for surround . Everything sounded great my living room is only 17X15 . I loved the 1,000's so much this following week I picked up 2 more and replaced the 2 surround back left and right , I left 2 600's for the left and right 7.1 set up . And now since I have 4 1000's I then purchased a pro center 2000 for the center . And now I'm really enjoying the system more I left the subwoofer alone that came with the pro600 it's fine for the 17X15 room. So now I have taken the 2 left over 600's and 600 center and put them in my bedroom for my computer setup!!! Lol I think I went a little crazy I should have just put a 1000 system together but I'm happy how it all ended up . In the later future I might upgrade the subwoofer . But for now I think it's time to put my bank card away hahahah. I think I did have a def tech overload! But I'm loving it!!!!!

Just wait, I started out on pretty much the same path.

Just makin' lemonade baby.
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post #5921 of 7287 Old 02-25-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2GOD View Post

Last week I picked up a df tech pro 600 package, and was loving it so much the following week I wanted to make it a 7.1 system so I picked up 2 def tech pro 1,000's . For the front left and right and put the 600's for surround . Everything sounded great my living room is only 17X15 . I loved the 1,000's so much this following week I picked up 2 more and replaced the 2 surround back left and right , I left 2 600's for the left and right 7.1 set up . And now since I have 4 1000's I then purchased a pro center 2000 for the center . And now I'm really enjoying the system more I left the subwoofer alone that came with the pro600 it's fine for the 17X15 room. So now I have taken the 2 left over 600's and 600 center and put them in my bedroom for my computer setup!!! Lol I think I went a little crazy I should have just put a 1000 system together but I'm happy how it all ended up . In the later future I might upgrade the subwoofer . But for now I think it's time to put my bank card away hahahah. I think I did have a def tech overload! But I'm loving it!!!!!

well that upgrade bug you hard Di you come here before you got the 6's, if so I can't believe anyone who have not tried to get you to opt for the 8 just based on room size. All worked out in the end

Now, if you think the speakers made a sound difference wait until you upgrade the sub. I've always said and believed that a sub can make or break a system. I have that a fair sub can't make great speakers sound fair, but a great sub can make fair speakers sound great. The sub that came with the 600 series is a fair to OK sub and nothing more, it is made to fit a room much smaller [10x12].

A great sub removes the lower frequencies that the speakers have a hard time reproducing correctly . If your sub can't do that well enough the whole system fails to impress.

Audyssey setup guide
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post #5922 of 7287 Old 02-25-2012, 11:26 PM
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well that upgrade bug you hard Di you come here before you got the 6's, if so I can't believe anyone who have not tried to get you to opt for the 8 just based on room size. All worked out in the end

Now, if you think the speakers made a sound difference wait until you upgrade the sub. I've always said and believed that a sub can make or break a system. I have that a fair sub can't make great speakers sound fair, but a great sub can make fair speakers sound great. The sub that came with the 600 series is a fair to OK sub and nothing more, it is made to fit a room much smaller [10x12].

A great sub removes the lower frequencies that the speakers have a hard time reproducing correctly . If your sub can't do that well enough the whole system fails to impress.

Hey Plex, your post always helps and I also initially bought the 600 series set but later upgraded to 800's

on a thumb rule and for your very useful recommendation, what are the room size the 600, 800 and 1000's you would recommend for ? my friends wanted to setup up their system and this input will help them as well...thanks in advance.
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post #5923 of 7287 Old 02-26-2012, 12:15 PM
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Ohhh no now your telling me if I upgrade the sub I will be more happy hahahah!!! Now I'm in trouble because then that's what I will probaly do. The 600 sub sounds great in my living. Room when it's not even turned up even half during movies the couches vibrate!!!! Lol living in a apartment building I don't think my neighbors will appreciate me !!!! Hahahah but in the future I will update the sub no question about that! Thanks for the input guys having this hobby is like a addiction!!! But only good thing is you pay once and it keeps giving and giving !!!!!
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post #5924 of 7287 Old 02-26-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saj2001ind View Post

Hey Plex, your post always helps and I also initially bought the 600 series set but later upgraded to 800's

on a thumb rule and for your very useful recommendation, what are the room size the 600, 800 and 1000's you would recommend for ? my friends wanted to setup up their system and this input will help them as well...thanks in advance.

let me do some checking and i'll post room sizes this week

Audyssey setup guide
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post #5925 of 7287 Old 02-27-2012, 03:52 PM
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well i have only owned the pro 600 system for 2 weeks and the sub stopped working, now its strange it did the same the first week , then what i did was pull the plug out the wall and putt back in and it kicked on again but today i couldn't revive it. so any way i brung it back to best buy with the rest of the speakers and center channel and got the credit back that i spent on the whole system and picked up a pro 1000 sub . now i have 4 pro 1000's for fronts and back surround and a pro center 2000 and now the new addition pro 1000 sub so in the end it tuned out great i should have put together a pro 1000 system from the beginning lol i guess it turned out for the better with an additional $400 back on my BB card . Now to make this a 7.1 surround system for the left and right should I pick up 2 pro 800's or should I just get 2 pro 1000's I know there aren't many blu ray movies in 7.1 so I don't know if getting the the 1000's is just over kill or stick to 800's any one have any input thanks.
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post #5926 of 7287 Old 02-27-2012, 08:28 PM
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IMO, unless you listen to a lot of multichannel music, you can get away with 800s as the back rears, although identical speakers are best if you have the space and money.

Exception, if you have an AVR that forces you to use the same crossover frequency for all speakers (such as Pioneers with MCACC), then you really should get all the same speakers.

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post #5927 of 7287 Old 02-28-2012, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Plex View Post

let me do some checking and i'll post room sizes this week

thats a lot, that will be really helpful for me and for any new guy getting this speakers, since most of the time we buy but end up replacing with better and bigger one and end up loosing a lot of bucks
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post #5928 of 7287 Old 02-28-2012, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

IMO, unless you listen to a lot of multichannel music, you can get away with 800s as the back rears, although identical speakers are best if you have the space and money.

Exception, if you have an AVR that forces you to use the same crossover frequency for all speakers (such as Pioneers with MCACC), then you really should get all the same speakers.

The 800's wouldn't be for back rears 2 1000's would be for back rears and for surround left and right 2 800's and for fronts across 2 1000's and pro center 2000 but I'm still considering 6 1000's and the pro center 2000 and my sub 1000 would complete my 7.1 system
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post #5929 of 7287 Old 02-28-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by W2GOD View Post

The 800's wouldn't be for back rears 2 1000's would be for back rears and for surround left and right 2 800's and for fronts across 2 1000's and pro center 2000 but I'm still considering 6 1000's and the pro center 2000 and my sub 1000 would complete my 7.1 system

Makes no sense. The surround speakers -- sometimes referred to as "side surrounds" and which you seem to be calling "surround left and right" are the primary surround speakers. With a pure 5.1 signal, these would be the active surrounds, and the rear-surrounds would be silent. So the least capable speakers should be the rear-surrounds.

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post #5930 of 7287 Old 02-28-2012, 01:33 PM
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Makes no sense. The surround speakers -- sometimes referred to as "side surrounds" and which you seem to be calling "surround left and right" are the primary surround speakers. With a pure 5.1 signal, these would be the active surrounds, and the rear-surrounds would be silent. So the least capable speakers should be the rear-surrounds.

Ahhh yes exactly lol sorry I'm new to this . The whole 7.1 system I'm just gonna make it 6 def tech pro 1000's keep the pro center 2000 and the pro sub 1000. This way everything is at least the same match. I'm just gonna pick up 2 1000's and I'm set. Everything is set up in a 17x14 room I've been told to set the crossover for the 1000's and the center and sub any were from 80-100hz does that sound right????
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post #5931 of 7287 Old 02-28-2012, 02:40 PM
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Ahhh yes exactly lol sorry I'm new to this . The whole 7.1 system I'm just gonna make it 6 def tech pro 1000's keep the pro center 2000 and the pro sub 1000. This way everything is at least the same match. I'm just gonna pick up 2 1000's and I'm set. Everything is set up in a 17x14 room I've been told to set the crossover for the 1000's and the center and sub any were from 80-100hz does that sound right????

See what your auto-setup picks. DT recommends 80 for the 1000s. There could be room or placement conditions that make the system sound better with a higher crossover, but IMO anything above 100 calls for close examination of the room to discover why your AVR wants a higher crossover; the full potential of these speakers is wasted if you don't use 80 or 100, IMO.

If the AVR insists on 150, say, then try different speaker placements, move the subwoofer (look up "subwoofer crawl) or shift the seating positions. Trying various placements is a good idea anyway, but in the case of setting the crossover for these DefTechs, IMO, the main reason they sound so good is because of their response in the upper midbass, around 100 Hz, which makes them sound much bigger than they are. A higher crossover negates that characteristic, and you might as well have stuck with 800s.

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See what your auto-setup picks. DT recommends 80 for the 1000s. There could be room or placement conditions that make the system sound better with a higher crossover, but IMO anything above 100 calls for close examination of the room to discover why your AVR wants a higher crossover; the full potential of these speakers is wasted if you don't use 80 or 100, IMO.

If the AVR insists on 150, say, then try different speaker placements, move the subwoofer (look up "subwoofer crawl) or shift the seating positions. Trying various placements is a good idea anyway, but in the case of setting the crossover for these DefTechs, IMO, the main reason they sound so good is because of their response in the upper midbass, around 100 Hz, which makes them sound much bigger than they are. A higher crossover negates that characteristic, and you might as well have stuck with 800s.

Ok veryGood 80hz for the 1000's and for the center??? And sub???? Same thing ??
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post #5933 of 7287 Old 02-28-2012, 04:55 PM
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Ok veryGood 80hz for the 1000's and for the center??? And sub???? Same thing ??

You're using the AVR's bass management, not the sub's. Set the sub to bypass, or turn the crossover frequency to the highest setting, so it doesn't come into play at all amd interfere with the AVR's settings.

Sam advice for the center as for,the others.

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post #5934 of 7287 Old 02-29-2012, 10:12 AM
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Could use some help.

Current owner of
Onkyo 609 receiver
L/R - 1000's
C - 2000
SL/SR - JBL (5.1 satellite in a box type speakers)
Sub- JBL Sub from the above mentioned box

Room is relatively small at probably 15 X 12

Looking to upgrade both my side surrounds and also my sub.
I was thinking about getting the 800's as my sides. If I do this, should I consider using the JBL's as back surrounds for a 7.1 system? or should I just stick with the 5.1?
Any suggestion other than the 800's?

Also the couch is pushed against the back wall, so if I had rear surrounds (existing JBL's?) they would be on stands that would just sit slightly above the seating space. Too close?

And in regards to the sub, I know some of you express a lot of love for the SVS units with Def Tech speakers. Would one of those be a recommended way to go?

Thanks
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post #5935 of 7287 Old 02-29-2012, 06:44 PM
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Thanks everyone for giving me tips
On setting up my system I'm very new to this and loving it !!!! So my set up consists of front left/right pro 1000's center is a pro center 2000. Sub is a pro sub 1000. Surround Back left/right are 1000's now I want to make a 7.1 system I know there's not much movies that do 7.1 , so should I get 2 1000's for the surround left/right or should I go for 2 pro 800's ????? Since they are not used as much I feel that the 1000's might be a waste sitting there and the 800's are cheap enough and sound great even tho not getting much use. Lol I'm confused I spent a lot
Of money already and still wanna upgrade my AVR left over cash would go to that. Thanks all.
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post #5936 of 7287 Old 02-29-2012, 09:39 PM
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Could use some help.

Current owner of
Onkyo 609 receiver
L/R - 1000's
C - 2000
SL/SR - JBL (5.1 satellite in a box type speakers)
Sub- JBL Sub from the above mentioned box

Room is relatively small at probably 15 X 12

Looking to upgrade both my side surrounds and also my sub.
I was thinking about getting the 800's as my sides. If I do this, should I consider using the JBL's as back surrounds for a 7.1 system? or should I just stick with the 5.1?
Any suggestion other than the 800's?

Also the couch is pushed against the back wall, so if I had rear surrounds (existing JBL's?) they would be on stands that would just sit slightly above the seating space. Too close?

And in regards to the sub, I know some of you express a lot of love for the SVS units with Def Tech speakers. Would one of those be a recommended way to go?

Thanks

I have every similar sub, in fact I have two SVS20-39
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SVS-25-31PC-...item3f144ad6c3
or here are the other svs's
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...fer&_sacat=293

try to get the frist guy to ship or if you live close enough it worth the drive

Audyssey setup guide
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post #5937 of 7287 Old 02-29-2012, 09:47 PM
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thats a lot, that will be really helpful for me and for any new guy getting this speakers, since most of the time we buy but end up replacing with better and bigger one and end up loosing a lot of bucks

The recommended room sizes for the ProCinema speakers isn't an exact science. It depends a bit on how critical you're going to be when listening to the system and how loud you wish to play the system. However, I'd use the following recommendations as a starting point.


ProMonitor 600s - 12' x 16' or smaller

ProMonitor 800s - 16' x 20' or smaller

ProMonitor 1000s - 20' x 22' or smaller

got these sizes from DT but I'd still error on the smaller size room for the 6's. A 12x16 is bigish, after listening to these at Bestbuy review room I would never say they were a filling speaker [BB room was ~12x16]

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post #5938 of 7287 Old 03-01-2012, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Plex View Post

The recommended room sizes for the ProCinema speakers isn't an exact science. It depends a bit on how critical you're going to be when listening to the system and how loud you wish to play the system. However, I'd use the following recommendations as a starting point.


ProMonitor 600s - 12' x 16' or smaller

ProMonitor 800s - 16' x 20' or smaller

ProMonitor 1000s - 20' x 22' or smaller

got these sizes from DT but I'd still error on the smaller size room for the 6's. A 12x16 is bigish, after listening to these at Bestbuy review room I would never say they were a filling speaker [BB room was ~12x16]


thanks for these figures, if we take a realistic rate then 15*15 size which is around 225 sq feets should be fine with 800's ? and any bigger should go for 1000's
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post #5939 of 7287 Old 03-01-2012, 08:24 PM
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thanks for these figures, if we take a realistic rate then 15*15 size which is around 225 sq feets should be fine with 800's ? and any bigger should go for 1000's

Yea the 8's should do well in that sized room.

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post #5940 of 7287 Old 03-02-2012, 12:09 AM
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thats gr8 thanks Plex, I hope this info would help ppl like me who tends to buy a set but end up upgrading in short span of time and loose money
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