Definitive Technology ProCinema Series 600/800/1000 (or 60/80/100) Thread - Page 243 - AVS Forum
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post #7261 of 7286 Old 06-18-2014, 09:02 AM
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I've read through much of this thread (and posted a couple of times, getting very helpful responses) since purchasing my DT set up in October (2x PM1000, PC 1000, 2x PM800, PS1000). The system sounds great in 5.1 (though I think it might improve with a better/larger sub than the DT PS1000, especially in my open room), but I find myself wishing the PM1000s would play louder when listening in stereo, particularly to vinyl. (I can make my ears bleed streaming Spotify, etc. via airplay, etc.). I'm using an NAD phono preamp and my AVR is a Denon 1913. My initial thought was that adding a 2 channel amp (NAD, Emotiva, etc.) might allow me to push the PM100s up front harder, but, alas, there is no preamp out on my AVR. Sounds like a lot of people in this thread have similarly powered/priced AVRs which makes sense, given the cost of DT's speakers.

My question: I was wondering if anyone had (or had heard) a DT ProCinema system that used higher quality separates/ or a higher powered system (in real world terms) and whether it made a difference in terms of the volume/sound quality that these speakers put out. The AVR gets a lot of use, and I've pushed it hard enough in the past to put it into protect mode from over heating (have since made adjustments for better venting in the cabinet), so it'l need to be replaced at some point, or I may just find the funds and pull the trigger on better components if it is worth it. I know it doesn't necessarily make sense to spend as much on a preamp/amp as the speakers, but the PM1000s are about as large (particularly depth-wise) as I can get into my space, so I'm trying to get the most out of them.

Open to any other suggestions.

Thanks

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post #7262 of 7286 Old 06-18-2014, 05:06 PM
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Nice you will be very happy with your def tec speakers . do you still have your set up mic that came with your sony reciever
Yes I still have the mic. I have a guy coming to hook it up who works for a local company. I'll be sure and tell him about the suggested hook up w/ L/R going through sub and 8 ohms with the crossover setting as well. He's going to run all the cables and mount my tv as well. I'm so anxious, he's not available till next Fridsy.
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post #7263 of 7286 Old 06-19-2014, 11:12 AM
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Just hooked up a pair of PM 1000 that I got from Bajawaverunner. Using them as height speakers and they blend nicely with my old BP2000 and CLR2000 front/center setup. I tried Neo:x but I think I prefer PLIIz better. Watched some Expendables 2 and presently I'm checking out Dredd. Sounds pretty nice...the heights improve my soundstage more than I thought they would. It only took me a year and a half to get around to it, but I finally did it. Have to try out a few more movies to see how they sound.
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post #7264 of 7286 Old 06-19-2014, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnyKerabatsos View Post
I've read through much of this thread (and posted a couple of times, getting very helpful responses) since purchasing my DT set up in October (2x PM1000, PC 1000, 2x PM800, PS1000). The system sounds great in 5.1 (though I think it might improve with a better/larger sub than the DT PS1000, especially in my open room), but I find myself wishing the PM1000s would play louder when listening in stereo, particularly to vinyl. (I can make my ears bleed streaming Spotify, etc. via airplay, etc.). I'm using an NAD phono preamp and my AVR is a Denon 1913. My initial thought was that adding a 2 channel amp (NAD, Emotiva, etc.) might allow me to push the PM100s up front harder, but, alas, there is no preamp out on my AVR. Sounds like a lot of people in this thread have similarly powered/priced AVRs which makes sense, given the cost of DT's speakers.

My question: I was wondering if anyone had (or had heard) a DT ProCinema system that used higher quality separates/ or a higher powered system (in real world terms) and whether it made a difference in terms of the volume/sound quality that these speakers put out. The AVR gets a lot of use, and I've pushed it hard enough in the past to put it into protect mode from over heating (have since made adjustments for better venting in the cabinet), so it'l need to be replaced at some point, or I may just find the funds and pull the trigger on better components if it is worth it. I know it doesn't necessarily make sense to spend as much on a preamp/amp as the speakers, but the PM1000s are about as large (particularly depth-wise) as I can get into my space, so I'm trying to get the most out of them.

Open to any other suggestions.

Thanks
Try the Rythmik LV12R sub for $599 and you will be very happy with the upgrade.

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post #7265 of 7286 Old 06-19-2014, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nowitzness41 View Post
Yes I still have the mic. I have a guy coming to hook it up who works for a local company. I'll be sure and tell him about the suggested hook up w/ L/R going through sub and 8 ohms with the crossover setting as well. He's going to run all the cables and mount my tv as well. I'm so anxious, he's not available till next Fridsy.
I know your pain when I installed my tv on the wall I had to bribe my friends with pizza and a few cold ones . But we got it done . The time will go quick but it will seam to drag the closer you get to next Friday
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post #7266 of 7286 Old 06-20-2014, 09:47 AM
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Try the Rythmik LV12R sub for $599 and you will be very happy with the upgrade.
Particularly for music, how does it compare with the SVS PC12-NSD or PB2000, since those were at the top of the list for my upgrades (the Variable tuning of the Hsu makes me think i'd just be tinkering with it constantly, instead of enjoying it.) Thanks.
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post #7267 of 7286 Old 06-20-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DonnyKerabatsos View Post
Particularly for music, how does it compare with the SVS PC12-NSD or PB2000, since those were at the top of the list for my upgrades (the Variable tuning of the Hsu makes me think i'd just be tinkering with it constantly, instead of enjoying it.) Thanks.
DonnyKerabatsos,

You might want to ask this question in the Rythmik sub thread here: Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread

You'll probably get a better feedback from various sub owners who have tried a number of brands compared to the dedicated thread of Def Tech ProCinema series of speakers.

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post #7268 of 7286 Old 06-27-2014, 08:44 AM
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(apologies if this is more appropriate for a subwoofer thread, but it seems like so many frequent posters here are so well versed regarding subwoofers and how they integrate with these speakers that I hoped y'all could help.)

After a lot of reading and correspondence/chat with folks at various sub manufacturers, I believe I've decided to add a Rythmik E15 to my setup (PM1000s up front, PC1000, Prosub1000). Weirdly, the SVS rep I spoke to was worried about me "overwhelming" my speakers, so recommended either a single PB1000 or SB2000 at the most, rather than duals or a single SB13. I figured you all would assuage my thoughts of overwhelming my speakers.

Also, I currently run my pro sub 1000 with speaker wire, rather than the LFE, sort of(?) making the PM1000s/PS1000 function as a pair of floor standers. Is it silly to leave it like this and use whatever additional subwoofer I get as a true sub hooked up to the LFE? Or am I better off unloading the Prosub for whatever I can get for it and using a traditional 5.1 set up with the new sub?

If it matters, my room is 14' x 22' with approx. 9' ceilings, hardwood floors, and is open to a hallway, a dining room, and a stairwell. Tight, articulate bass in stereo music listening is more important to me than earth shaking bass when watching blu-rays. Cabinet size and WAF comes into play here, hence I can only get a very small (PB1000) ported sub or a sealed sub.

Thanks.
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post #7269 of 7286 Old 06-27-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnyKerabatsos View Post

Also, I currently run my pro sub 1000 with speaker wire, rather than the LFE, sort of(?) making the PM1000s/PS1000 function as a pair of floor standers. Is it silly to leave it like this and use whatever additional subwoofer I get as a true sub hooked up to the LFE? Or am I better off unloading the Prosub for whatever I can get for it and using a traditional 5.1 set up with the new sub?
This is a perfectly legitimate approach; in essence, you would treat the PS1000/PM1000 mains as a pair of "large" speakers. It would play back all the bass that belongs to the main L/R channels, but because you have a dedicated sub as well, the sub would get all of the LFE (plus the bass from the other channels below the AVR's crossover frequency).

I would be a bit concerned about the PC1000 coming up a bit short, however. That's by no means a small room, and with surround content the center channel often does more work than any other. And what are you using for surrounds?

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post #7270 of 7286 Old 06-27-2014, 01:49 PM
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This is a perfectly legitimate approach; in essence, you would treat the PS1000/PM1000 mains as a pair of "large" speakers. It would play back all the bass that belongs to the main L/R channels, but because you have a dedicated sub as well, the sub would get all of the LFE (plus the bass from the other channels below the AVR's crossover frequency).

I would be a bit concerned about the PC1000 coming up a bit short, however. That's by no means a small room, and with surround content the center channel often does more work than any other. And what are you using for surrounds?
Thanks for the input. The PC1000 has been adequate; I only realized that the PC2000 was the true match of the PM1000s after I had the PC1000 mounted (drilling into masonry). It is mounted above the TV, angled down at the couch, and I'm not sure there's even room up there for the PC2000 (TV is mounted as low as it can be, just grazing the mantle). If I could squeeze in the PC2000, would there be a downside to having it (and the radiators on the ends) so close to the ceiling, even with it angled downwards?

Surrounds are PC800s. (needed to be smaller for WAF/Wall mounting; plus, I'm far more concerned with music listening that HT).
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post #7271 of 7286 Old 06-27-2014, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnyKerabatsos View Post
Thanks for the input. The PC1000 has been adequate; I only realized that the PC2000 was the true match of the PM1000s after I had the PC1000 mounted (drilling into masonry). It is mounted above the TV, angled down at the couch, and I'm not sure there's even room up there for the PC2000 (TV is mounted as low as it can be, just grazing the mantle). If I could squeeze in the PC2000, would there be a downside to having it (and the radiators on the ends) so close to the ceiling, even with it angled downwards?

Surrounds are PC800s. (needed to be smaller for WAF/Wall mounting; plus, I'm far more concerned with music listening that HT).
If that location works for the PC1000 it will work as well for the PC2000. Location near a room boundary will only help reinforce the low end.

If you install the PM1000/PS1000 as discussed above, then I predict that a PC2000 will yield an immediate audible improvement on surround material, particularly if you have an AVR that allows you to choose a different (lower) crossover frequency for the center channel than for the surrounds. Meanwhile, with stereo music, the trio of PM1000s and a PS1000 will work very well, sounding like much larger tower speakers, assuming optimal placement of the sub.
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post #7272 of 7286 Old 06-27-2014, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnyKerabatsos View Post
Also, I currently run my pro sub 1000 with speaker wire, rather than the LFE, sort of(?) making the PM1000s/PS1000 function as a pair of floor standers. Is it silly to leave it like this and use whatever additional subwoofer I get as a true sub hooked up to the LFE? Or am I better off unloading the Prosub for whatever I can get for it and using a traditional 5.1 set up with the new sub?

If it matters, my room is 14' x 22' with approx. 9' ceilings, hardwood floors, and is open to a hallway, a dining room, and a stairwell. Tight, articulate bass in stereo music listening is more important to me than earth shaking bass when watching blu-rays. Cabinet size and WAF comes into play here, hence I can only get a very small (PB1000) ported sub or a sealed sub.

Thanks.
DonnyKerabatsos,

With your current set-up, do a sub crawl to determine the best place for your sub. If you haven't, grab an SPL meter (its inexpensive from your local Radio Shack store) and do a sub crawl as per this video: http://www.audioholics.com/home-thea...ofer-placement
The purpose of the sub crawl is to identify the best (or more than one) location where there is the least peak to peak variation in bass at your Main Listening Position (MLP).

Not sure what model of AVR you have, but does it have room correction like Audyssey XT32 with sub EQ HT? The reason I ask is that after speakers, room correction is the next in line that impacts sound reproduction.

You would then run the room correction in the AVR to smooth out the bass further and hopefully address the room modes.

Go with satellite + sub configuration first as this is the simplest and least complicated setup. In this case 5.1 with direct wiring to the Def Tech Promonitors and LFE output to the sub. Modern AVRs have auto setup that takes this into account. You don't have to fiddle with much to get this right. I.e. reduce the possibility of user error.

The goal is to physically find out the best location for your bass (sub) and imaging (satellites), with respect to the best possible position(s) of your satellites, sub and MLP. This setup is the foundation of good sound reproduction in your room.

After the foundation has been set, you can then experiment/tweak with running speaker wires to the sub and satellites to make it appear as 'large' in the AVR configuration and play around with the settings.

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post #7273 of 7286 Old 06-28-2014, 04:42 PM
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I know your pain when I installed my tv on the wall I had to bribe my friends with pizza and a few cold ones . But we got it done . The time will go quick but it will seam to drag the closer you get to next Friday
So I finally got them all hooked up and did the auto test. After finishing it has speaker set up as 3:2 which I assume is the same thing as "sub - no", Am I correct? Also it has all speakers set to large, should I leave as is or have center and surround to small? Next I was wondering what the recommended db should be for each speaker? Auto setup has FL at -.05, FR at +.05, C at -4.0, SurL at -.05 & SurR @ 0.0. Dual mono is main/sub? Bass set at 10db, treble at 6db, good or should I adjust. Sound field is PLII MOVIE, should I put on auto? Crossover frequency is set at 120hz across the board. Any suggestions or additional things I should do?
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post #7274 of 7286 Old 06-28-2014, 06:17 PM
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So I finally got them all hooked up and did the auto test. After finishing it has speaker set up as 3:2 which I assume is the same thing as "sub - no", Am I correct? Also it has all speakers set to large, should I leave as is or have center and surround to small? Next I was wondering what the recommended db should be for each speaker? Auto setup has FL at -.05, FR at +.05, C at -4.0, SurL at -.05 & SurR @ 0.0. Dual mono is main/sub? Bass set at 10db, treble at 6db, good or should I adjust. Sound field is PLII MOVIE, should I put on auto? Crossover frequency is set at 120hz across the board. Any suggestions or additional things I should do?
Set sound field to auto for different sound tracks and movies now for the db levals you'll have to play around and find what sounds better to you and blind it all together . The 800 system my be set to large you will also play around with that setting also but to be on the safe side I'll start on small with an 100hz cross over then put your favorite movie in and listen to your system
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post #7275 of 7286 Old 07-03-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
DonnyKerabatsos,

With your current set-up, do a sub crawl to determine the best place for your sub. If you haven't, grab an SPL meter (its inexpensive from your local Radio Shack store) and do a sub crawl as per this video: http://www.audioholics.com/home-thea...ofer-placement
The purpose of the sub crawl is to identify the best (or more than one) location where there is the least peak to peak variation in bass at your Main Listening Position (MLP).

Not sure what model of AVR you have, but does it have room correction like Audyssey XT32 with sub EQ HT? The reason I ask is that after speakers, room correction is the next in line that impacts sound reproduction.

You would then run the room correction in the AVR to smooth out the bass further and hopefully address the room modes.

Go with satellite + sub configuration first as this is the simplest and least complicated setup. In this case 5.1 with direct wiring to the Def Tech Promonitors and LFE output to the sub. Modern AVRs have auto setup that takes this into account. You don't have to fiddle with much to get this right. I.e. reduce the possibility of user error.

The goal is to physically find out the best location for your bass (sub) and imaging (satellites), with respect to the best possible position(s) of your satellites, sub and MLP. This setup is the foundation of good sound reproduction in your room.

After the foundation has been set, you can then experiment/tweak with running speaker wires to the sub and satellites to make it appear as 'large' in the AVR configuration and play around with the settings.
My Denon has Audyssey, which I've run. The way the room is configured, there is really only one place for the front speakers, and I've done as much with toeing them in and elevating the backs slightly (they are placed higher than your ears at the MLP). Similarly, there are only a couple of acceptable places for the sub, and where it is currently placed is the easiest set up and aesthetic wise, and is also most like being in a corner of the available positions (against a wall and next to the equipment cabinet). There really isn't a lot of flexibility with the odd room and WAF, so I've got to make the best of the constraints that exist.
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post #7276 of 7286 Old 07-03-2014, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DonnyKerabatsos View Post
My Denon has Audyssey, which I've run. The way the room is configured, there is really only one place for the front speakers, and I've done as much with toeing them in and elevating the backs slightly (they are placed higher than your ears at the MLP). Similarly, there are only a couple of acceptable places for the sub, and where it is currently placed is the easiest set up and aesthetic wise, and is also most like being in a corner of the available positions (against a wall and next to the equipment cabinet). There really isn't a lot of flexibility with the odd room and WAF, so I've got to make the best of the constraints that exist.
DonnyKerabatsos,

Since your placement options for the front sound stage is limited as well as for the sub, you might have to carry out some room measurements to see how good/bad the frequency response is going to be with the setup.

Have you done a sub crawl to confirm that the placement has the smoothest bass? Are you planning to go with one or two subs? A two sub setup would give a more smooth bass compared to just one. From previous posts, your receiver is a Denon AVR-1913 (sorry I missed that). Note that the 1913 has a single LFE out and you'll need a Y-adapter like this: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2 from Monoprice or something similar and connect to each sub. If you're going with two subs and based on your subs optimal placement, you would then "gain match" the subs. The purpose is to prevent the subwoofers working unequally, therefore it is best to match their output levels at each source location by “gain matching” them.

The 1913 has got Audyssey MultiEQ room correction. Once you've got the optimal subs placement and the subs gain matched, carry out the 6 position close mic measurement.

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post #7277 of 7286 Old 07-04-2014, 10:11 AM
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How tough is it to replace a tweeter in my PM800? I think it's blown. Also anyone know where I can get the part?
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post #7278 of 7286 Old 07-04-2014, 05:03 PM
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How tough is it to replace a tweeter in my PM800? I think it's blown. Also anyone know where I can get the part?
It's not too hard just get the proper screw driver and unscrew the screws then remover the tweeter. Look up bajawaverunner on EBAY and contact him he is a factory refurbisher for def tec and will have the part. Or you can call def tec them self and talk to customer service
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post #7279 of 7286 Old 07-10-2014, 04:24 AM
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I have recently got the following speakers.

PM1000 fronts
PC2000
PM800 surrounds
I had AVR yahama rx 673

Question1.
Need suggestion for a SUB that can go with above combination.

My first choice after reading here svs pb1000 and other suggestion?

Questions 2. What crossover frequency should I set for each speaker?
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post #7280 of 7286 Old 07-10-2014, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by srkmag View Post
I have recently got the following speakers.

PM1000 fronts
PC2000
PM800 surrounds
I had AVR yahama rx 673

Question1.
Need suggestion for a SUB that can go with above combination.

My first choice after reading here svs pb1000 and other suggestion?

Questions 2. What crossover frequency should I set for each speaker?
Hello set all speakers to small with a 80hz cross over and the pm800 ones set to small also with a 100hz I would go with the svs 1000 sub
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post #7281 of 7286 Old 07-10-2014, 06:17 AM
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Question1.
Need suggestion for a SUB that can go with above combination.
srkmag,

How big is your room? The sub is meant to reproduce the bass frequencies and this is very dependent on the room dimensions, volume, placement and where you sit (Main Listening Position).

Most will do better with a pair of subs to smooth out the bass due to room modes (peaks and dips due bass) and allow some margin in the crossover point.

Your Yamaha has bass management, but doesn't do any room correction for bass frequencies. You might want to consider an additional device such as anti-mode in the LFE output chain to help tame the room modes as an easy solution. If your willing to roll up the sleeves and learn about how to tame the bass there are better options available.

The internet direct companies offer great value for the money on subs. Apart from SVS, consider also:
HSU
Rythmik
PSA

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post #7282 of 7286 Old 07-10-2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srkmag View Post
I have recently got the following speakers.

PM1000 fronts
PC2000
PM800 surrounds
I had AVR yahama rx 673

Question1.
Need suggestion for a SUB that can go with above combination.

My first choice after reading here svs pb1000 and other suggestion?

Questions 2. What crossover frequency should I set for each speaker?
There is nothing specific about the DT speakers that favors one sub over another. I would recommend spending some time in the subwoofer forum and learn about the factors and concerns that may influence your choice.

If your Yamaha allows you to select different crossover frequencies by speaker position, then yes, I'd start with 80Hz across the front, 100Hz in back -- keeping in mind that different rooms, different speaker positioning, and particularly different subwoofer locations will all influence what sounds best.

If your AVR requires a single crossover frequency for all channels that are set to Small (which all of yours should be), 80Hz may be too low for the PM800s. Try 100Hz all around and if it sounds good, leave it there.

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post #7283 of 7286 Old 07-15-2014, 09:58 AM
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I've found what seems like conflicting info on this question: Can I use ProMount 80s for a Procenter 2000, or do I need to buy ProMount 90s? I know the distance between the mounts is different on the PC1000 that I pan to replace with a PC2000, so I'll have to move one or more likely both mounts anyway, but I hoped I wouldn't have to purchase new mounts too.

If I do purchase new mounts, any places to get a deal on them? Didn't see any in bajawaverunner's ebay store.
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post #7284 of 7286 Old 07-27-2014, 11:29 AM
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I have the following config:

-Left: PM1000, Center: PC2000 , Right: PM1000
-Subwoofer SVS PB 1000 - Back settings - Volume Knob in Middle, Phase Knob - 0 degree, Low pass filter knob at LFE. Using LFE to connect to ARV. View back image of sub how the subs look. http://www.svsound.com/STA-300Db.jpg
-Receiver Yahama RX-V673

I used YAPO Mic to setup and configure the arv system. Did not change anything. I thought it will configure everything.
In ARV settings crossover frequency for sub is set as 100.
All speakers are set to small and could not locate crossover frequency for each speaker. Is there different setting I need to so for these speakers.

I found that vocals are very clear with light music in background. Dance music with lots of beats & instruments e.g. Clarity by Zedd, Kesha Timber etc. get blends. Background instruments no that clear but vocals are.

My old logitech 2.1 speakers in same location purchased 10 years ago seems to sound better for music and movies.

I am new to setting up the speakers and I feel it is something to do with the settings.

Any ideas which areas should I look to setup.
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post #7285 of 7286 Old 07-27-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srkmag View Post
I have the following config:

-Left: PM1000, Center: PC2000 , Right: PM1000
-Subwoofer SVS PB 1000 - Back settings - Volume Knob in Middle, Phase Knob - 0 degree, Low pass filter knob at LFE. Using LFE to connect to ARV. View back image of sub how the subs look. http://www.svsound.com/STA-300Db.jpg
-Receiver Yahama RX-V673

I used YAPO Mic to setup and configure the arv system. Did not change anything. I thought it will configure everything.
In ARV settings crossover frequency for sub is set as 100.
All speakers are set to small and could not locate crossover frequency for each speaker. Is there different setting I need to so for these speakers.

I found that vocals are very clear with light music in background. Dance music with lots of beats & instruments e.g. Clarity by Zedd, Kesha Timber etc. get blends. Background instruments no that clear but vocals are.

My old logitech 2.1 speakers in same location purchased 10 years ago seems to sound better for music and movies.

I am new to setting up the speakers and I feel it is something to do with the settings.

Any ideas which areas should I look to setup.
Hey I have the exact same configuration as you with the exception of a Yamaha RX-A1020 AVR. I ran YPAO & have everything set identical to your configuration. All speakers crossed over at 100Hz & everything seems to sound fine. I haven't changed anything that YPAO initially set. Did you just purchase your speakers? If so, Definitive recommends a break-in period of about 20-40 hrs before everything starts "opening up".

Hopefully this helps
Carmine.
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post #7286 of 7286 Old 07-27-2014, 04:26 PM
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My friend was upgrading to different system so I purchased his 1 year old speakers.
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