Definitive Technology ProCinema Series 600/800/1000 (or 60/80/100) Thread - Page 250 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7471 of 7475 Old 07-29-2015, 08:59 PM
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I'm not sure what happened with the picture I pasted with a car on the rollers. Hopefully a moderator can erase out all of the text.


But hopefully my 2nd attempt works...


Cheers!


Fulcrum
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post #7472 of 7475 Old 07-29-2015, 09:00 PM
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^ fulcrum2015,

Might want to edit your post.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP(2x4) & 10x10HD, Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.
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post #7473 of 7475 Old 08-22-2015, 06:45 AM
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Procinema 600 speakers + Prosub 800 + Onkyo onkyo tx-sr333

Hi. A friend recently got the Onkyo TX-SR333 AVR and Procinema 600 speakers as a gift - thing is the speakers do not come with the bundled sub but instead have the Prosub 800.

I'm trying to set it up for him and I'm no expert myself. Given that AVR and the system, I'm looking to go the conventional route and just do a simple LFE connection instead of the DefTech recommended method 1.

I have the speaker configuration in the receiver set to 'small' for all channels, yes for sub and crossover at 150Hz. On the sub the volume is set to 12 o clock. From what I've read re the manuals, that's the correct way to do it. However, the sound, especially the bass isn't very good - what I mean by that is that it isn't precise/tight but is instead sort of 'muddy' and diffuse even though the source material is Bluray with a DTS-HD MA track....also bass is low/without impact. All the channel levels in the AVR are set to 0. When I raise the LFE level the bass simply becomes muddier though louder.

Am I doing something wrong here? Or is this a limitation re the relatively low end receiver? And is this the best we can expect out of this setup?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/help/comments.
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post #7474 of 7475 Old Yesterday, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidingGod View Post
Hi. A friend recently got the Onkyo TX-SR333 AVR and Procinema 600 speakers as a gift - thing is the speakers do not come with the bundled sub but instead have the Prosub 800.

I'm trying to set it up for him and I'm no expert myself. Given that AVR and the system, I'm looking to go the conventional route and just do a simple LFE connection instead of the DefTech recommended method 1.

I have the speaker configuration in the receiver set to 'small' for all channels, yes for sub and crossover at 150Hz. On the sub the volume is set to 12 o clock. From what I've read re the manuals, that's the correct way to do it. However, the sound, especially the bass isn't very good - what I mean by that is that it isn't precise/tight but is instead sort of 'muddy' and diffuse even though the source material is Bluray with a DTS-HD MA track....also bass is low/without impact. All the channel levels in the AVR are set to 0. When I raise the LFE level the bass simply becomes muddier though louder.

Am I doing something wrong here? Or is this a limitation re the relatively low end receiver? And is this the best we can expect out of this setup?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/help/comments.
The Onkyo TX-SR333 AVR is an entry level unit that doesn't have a supplied microphone that would enable automatic calibration for levels and trims for individual speakers - let alone the sub. The levels and trims for each speaker as well as the sub needs to be setup first. This will ensure that sound reproduction reaches the individual's ear from every speaker at the same time and same sound pressure level, effectively creating a sound stage this is three dimensional. If it hasn't been done yet, this is the first thing to do.

What it means with the Onkyo TX-SR333 is that you'll have to get out a hand held SPL meter, a calibration disc and tape measure then input the parameters manually into the receiver's levels and distance settings. Where is the Main Listening Position (MLP) relative to all the speakers and sub? Are angles between the MLP and each individual speaker been setup as per the recommendation as shown below?


Bass is room dependent which means the room dimensions will determine the standing wave frequencies. Bass frequencies will "see" the entire room volume as it will fill all the space in three dimensions due to the very long wavelengths. Depending on where the MLP is at, the bass will be either at a peak or null or somewhere in between. Is there some flexibility in moving either the sub or MLP? Have you carried out a sub crawl that will help identify some good locations where to place the sub? The following youtube video from Axiom Audio shows how to carry out a sub crawl:

The Prosub 800 has a single 8" driver and it's ability to reproduce clean 20Hz signal in the room is questionable. Have you set the low pass crossover to it's highest setting? Did you enable double-bass on the AVR? This means both the speaker and sub are reproducing the bass frequencies which interfere with each other in the room. Most at AVS do not recommend this feature to be ON.

Getting good sound reproduction is a work in progress and it's important that the basics are set up properly 1st.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP(2x4) & 10x10HD, Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.
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post #7475 of 7475 Unread Today, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
The Onkyo TX-SR333 AVR is an entry level unit that doesn't have a supplied microphone that would enable automatic calibration for levels and trims for individual speakers - let alone the sub. The levels and trims for each speaker as well as the sub needs to be setup first. This will ensure that sound reproduction reaches the individual's ear from every speaker at the same time and same sound pressure level, effectively creating a sound stage this is three dimensional. If it hasn't been done yet, this is the first thing to do.

What it means with the Onkyo TX-SR333 is that you'll have to get out a hand held SPL meter, a calibration disc and tape measure then input the parameters manually into the receiver's levels and distance settings. Where is the Main Listening Position (MLP) relative to all the speakers and sub? Are angles between the MLP and each individual speaker been setup as per the recommendation as shown below?


Bass is room dependent which means the room dimensions will determine the standing wave frequencies. Bass frequencies will "see" the entire room volume as it will fill all the space in three dimensions due to the very long wavelengths. Depending on where the MLP is at, the bass will be either at a peak or null or somewhere in between. Is there some flexibility in moving either the sub or MLP? Have you carried out a sub crawl that will help identify some good locations where to place the sub? The following youtube video from Axiom Audio shows how to carry out a sub crawl:
sub crawl test

The Prosub 800 has a single 8" driver and it's ability to reproduce clean 20Hz signal in the room is questionable. Have you set the low pass crossover to it's highest setting? Did you enable double-bass on the AVR? This means both the speaker and sub are reproducing the bass frequencies which interfere with each other in the room. Most at AVS do not recommend this feature to be ON.

Getting good sound reproduction is a work in progress and it's important that the basics are set up properly 1st.
Thank you for the pointers - this is very useful for relative noobs like me especially when there's no Audyssey or YPAO to work with. Ok, so first up, I'm going to do level/distance measurements with an SPL meter, tape measure etc, then sub crawl and we'll see how it ends up. Will report back.

To answer some of your questions, the double bass is indeed turned off. The low pass filter is set to max and the speaker placement by default is almost exactly as shown in the diagram. Let's see what the manual measurements show now.
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