Definitive Technology ProCinema Series 600/800/1000 (or 60/80/100) Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 7290 Old 08-09-2007, 07:37 PM
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hamsamish09 - what frequency did you cross your speakers and sub at? For my 600 I picked 120Hz though the 605 insisted on 150Hz. I read this review on the 800's and it seems to suggest crossing them at 80Hz. Seems like a big difference from the 600's to 800's.

http://www.definitivetech.com/review...RevuSV1106.pdf
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post #122 of 7290 Old 08-09-2007, 08:11 PM
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I have the PM800s for my surrounds. I cross them over at 100Hz. At 80Hz, I lost WAY too much mid/upper bass response.

Not sure why the reviewer liked the sound of the PM800s crossed so low. Look at the insert in the article were Tom Nousaine measured the -3dB point at about 120Hz. At 100Hz, it looks like it's down -6dB. That's the lowest point I would use for the PM800s. Below that, ain't useable plus the PM800s won't be able to play as loudly without distortion if you cross them that low.

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post #123 of 7290 Old 08-09-2007, 08:25 PM
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Here's more data on the 800's ... only if I understood what all the data really meant ...

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...er-system.html
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post #124 of 7290 Old 08-09-2007, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

I decided to take my ProCinema 600 package back to Magnolia and get the ProCinema 800 instead from ABT for just a little more $$.

I'm also taking the Onkyo 605 back, I'm fed up with the popping noises and the excessive heat it puts out. I'm replacing it with the new Denon 3808ci also from ABT. I had a Denon in the past and I was very happy with it, paired with a set of B&W CDM SE speakers - ah, how much I miss those speakers!

I hope the new setup Denon + ProCinema 800 will sound decent as I'm not putting any more money into this thing!

i have no popping problem with my 605 at all. ive had it for about a month now and havent heard a pop yet.
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post #125 of 7290 Old 08-09-2007, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savage1005 View Post

i have no popping problem with my 605 at all. ive had it for about a month now and havent heard a pop yet.


I just received my SR-805 and hope I don't encounter the popping either.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I think I'll go with the ProMonitor 800, ProCenter1000 and the Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer. One more question....if I went with the 800's as the L and R fronts, could I use 600's as the rear surrounds or would that be a problem? I don't think I want speakers as big as the 800s in the back for my surrounds.
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post #126 of 7290 Old 08-10-2007, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post

I just received my SR-805 and hope I don't encounter the popping either.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I think I'll go with the ProMonitor 800, ProCenter1000 and the Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer. One more question....if I went with the 800's as the L and R fronts, could I use 600's as the rear surrounds or would that be a problem? I don't think I want speakers as big as the 800s in the back for my surrounds.


thats fine. Same tweeter, so should be pretty seamless soundfield. Not much difference than having a bigger center. When I move my system to a bigger room I'm putting the 4 600's in the back and getting 3 ProMonitor1000 s for the front. I'll probably add a second sub too, as the 600 is fine for a small room but doesn't go very low.
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post #127 of 7290 Old 08-10-2007, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post

if I went with the 800's as the L and R fronts, could I use 600's as the rear surrounds or would that be a problem? I don't think I want speakers as big as the 800s in the back for my surrounds.

I was thinking the same myself, for my setup, trouble is you can't just buy 2 ProMonitor 600 speakers, the ProCinema 600 seems to be sold as a complete 5.1 package only, at least that's what ABT and Magnolia told me. The 800 and 1000 can be mixed and matched.
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post #128 of 7290 Old 08-10-2007, 07:43 AM
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Speaking with Definitive Tech's support, they recommended crossing the 800's at 120Hz, the center 1000 at 100Hz and hooking everything up to the receiver directly, not via the sub.

I guess I can experiement and also see what the Denon wants to do with its auto setup feature.

I'd think that crossing them at somewhere between 100-120Hz would be the right point.
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post #129 of 7290 Old 08-10-2007, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post

Went to BB today and listened to the following setup....

4 - Pro Monitor 800's
1 - ProCenter1
1 - Martin Logan Dynamo 10" powered sub

I was fairly impressed. Is there a reason I shouldn't pair the satellites from Def Tech with a sub from Martin Logan? Is the ProCinema 800 or 1000 subwoofer a better choice? Should I step to a SuperCube?

I should be able to do this system for under $1200.

Thanks.


If your going to consider the any SC I/II/III please take a look at the SVS SB12 Plus about the same size and cost, but hands down better and has great reviews

Audyssey setup guide
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post #130 of 7290 Old 08-10-2007, 03:05 PM
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When I heard other people post that they got their equipment(tv, receiver) but didn't have the time to use or set them up I thought"they must be crazy".

Well thats just what has happened to me. I set my system up with Audssey last sunday afternoon after running back speakers and running a new 20amp outlet for rx,sub and PS3 on FRI and Sat. and dressing my cables... Anyway I haven't looked at the settings until you asked.

Fr=150
cen=150
surr=70
lfe=120

Wow, I need to cal with my R.S. spl meter but I have not had time. Plan on watching 300br I bought this weekend.

I'll keep you posted.
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post #131 of 7290 Old 08-11-2007, 08:47 AM
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Well, I've changed my mind once again. Yesterday I heard the Mythos Gem and Mythos Seven Center Channel. I was very impressed and loved the styling and smaller size than the Pro Cinema 800's. I will be using Mythos speakers for the L/C/R. As for the rear speakers, I am likely going to put 2 in-ceiling speakers from Def Tech or maybe even Polk Audio to the sides and behind my primary seating area. Also, I'm still onboard with the Martin Logan Dynamo 10" powered sub. I listened again yesterday and I just love the thing.

I know it's important that all 3 front speakers are the same/similar so that they are timbre-matched, etc. so I will be fine with the Mythos. I am wondering if there is any problem with using Polk in-ceiling rear speakers or the Martin Logan sub?

Also, is 16 AWG speaker wire okay for these speakers if I use and LFE for the sub?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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post #132 of 7290 Old 08-11-2007, 09:53 AM
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Go with 14 or 12 ga. I thought Monoprice.com had a good deal on wire, IMHO. I use LFE, had an old and fairly thick gauge video cable left over from some equipment. Used that.

The gem's are about 2" taller than the 800's and twice the price....so if you like them better ..great. Let us know how they sound when you get them, though. I'd like your opinion when you get them home.
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post #133 of 7290 Old 08-11-2007, 10:57 AM
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I second that, I use 14 AWG wire. I think 12 AWG is overkill. Here's a table to give you an idea on ga vs. length of the wire. As you can see 14 AWG takes you pretty far even with a 4 ohm speaker:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

For the sub cable, I use a special cable that also has a ground connector which gets hooked up the to the sub's ground and the receiver's ground. Apparently it helps with hum noises, if any.

Here's the sub cable that Magnolia gave to me for a couple of bucks when I got the Def Tech's from them. It was "open box", used cable, but who cares, works fine:

http://www.needledoctor.com/Audioque...bwoofer-Cables

I think paying a lot for cables is a rip-off, I can't tell the difference between a decent cable and a very expensive one. This sub cable I would not have paid retail for it ever, but as I said I got it for free (almost).

For the speakers, I think it's OK to get a very good set if you can afford them. These are probably the only components that don't need an upgrade, not much changes in the speaker world, as opposed to receivers, DVD players, etc. You can make use of them for 10-15 yrs. or even more.
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post #134 of 7290 Old 08-11-2007, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamsamish09 View Post

Go with 14 or 12 The gem's are about 2" taller than the 800's and twice the price....so if you like them better ..great.

Twice the price also gets you a much more rigid enclosure. I have the PM800s and I can hear some cabinet resonance from them when they are pushed. My Mythos Ones and Three have none that I can hear due to the better enclosure material. Also, the Gems should have noticeably better dispersion. However, I think the PM800s will have better low end extension due to the larger driver and use of a passive radiator.

Gordon
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post #135 of 7290 Old 08-11-2007, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post

I am wondering if there is any problem with using Polk in-ceiling rear speakers or the Martin Logan sub?

No problem with the sub. The sub is reproducing different frequencies than your mains or surrounds so there is no such thing as timbre matching. The rear speakers, yes, that can be a problem depending on how good your ears are and what you are listening to. To my ears, most in-ceiling speakers have a vastly different timbre than enclosure speakers. Even if both in-ceiling and enclosure use the same drivers. For music, I find it distracting. But for movies, it's acceptable to me.

Gordon
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post #136 of 7290 Old 08-11-2007, 08:28 PM
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My entertainment center is made up of a TV credenza with an audio tower on each side. When I got my ProMonitor 1000s and my ProCenter 1000 a week or so ago, I initially put my fronts on top of the towers (obviously quite a bit higher than ear level) and have placed my Center right in front of my DLP, just below the power button and Samsung logo. I had considered getting the stands for my fronts, but I realized there's really not enough room along that wall to place anything any farther out than it is now. So, I opted to place my fronts on shelves inside my towers and just make sure the doors are open when I'm listening to something. The sound, to me, sounds excellent. But I'm just wondering if there's anything wrong with doing this. I still have about 8-9 inches of airspace to the left, right and rear of the speakers and about 3 inches above them. So am I missing out on much by the passive radiators on top being so close to the shelf above them? ALSO, I'm going to move my center down to a shelf below the TV shelf since it's somewhat covering the IR on my TV. Is there any problem with doing this?
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post #137 of 7290 Old 08-11-2007, 09:23 PM
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Thanks again guys. I looked at the speaker wire table and it says that even a 4 ohm speaker should be okay up to 24 feet in length with 16 AWG. Here are the specs on the Mythos Gems...

Dimensions:
10-1/4" H x 4-1/4" D x 4-1/8" W
Freq. Response: 60Hz - 30kHz
Nominal Impedance:
Compatible 8 Ohm outputs

Recommended Amplification:
10 - 200 Watts/channel.
Efficiency: 89 db
Driver Complement:

Two 3-1/2" Long Throw Upper Bass/Midrange
One 1" Ferrofluid-Dampened Pure Aluminum Dome Tweeter
Magnetically shielded for safe placement near video monitors and televisions with no risk of video distortion.
Secure Wall Mounting Bracket Included.
Finish: polished aluminum or gloss black
Suggested Retail: $249 ea.

Does "Nominal Impedance: Compatible 8 Ohm outputs" mean that these are 8 ohm speakers?

My front three Mythos speakers won't need more than 15 feet of speaker to get from receiver to each. My rears will need about 20 feet. I already have 150ft. of Monster THX speaker wire that is 16 AWG. Do I need to ditch that and buy 14 AWG? Since these are all separates with small drivers (i.e. not floor-standing speakers housing 10" sub, mid and tweeter) I was thinking 16 would be fine. Am I way off?

I did close the deal on the speakers.

Mythos Gem x 2 for L, R
Mythos Seven Center
Polk Audio TC620i x 2 in-ceiling rear speakers (also 8 ohms)
Martin Logan Dynamo 10" powered subwoofer

I'm about 2 weeks from installation and starting to get excited about this.
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post #138 of 7290 Old 08-11-2007, 10:26 PM
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Some say that 16 AWG wire can put a higher load on your receiver and overheat it. Not sure how true that is, so I went with 14 AWG, just for piece of mind. My Onkyo 605 makes a lot of heat and the popping noises, I would have suspected the wires had I gone with the 16 AWG and ended up upgrading the wiring anyway ... I think if you can get a good deal on the 14 AWG wire, the incremental cost is very small compared to what you paid for the entire setup. You can try and sell/return the Monster 16 AWG or maybe you can trade it in at the same place you got your speakers, after all you spent lots of money with them ...
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post #139 of 7290 Old 08-12-2007, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

Some say that 16 AWG wire can put a higher load on your receiver and overheat it. Not sure how true that is, so I went with 14 AWG, just for piece of mind. My Onkyo 605 makes a lot of heat and the popping noises, I would have suspected the wires had I gone with the 16 AWG and ended up upgrading the wiring anyway ... I think if you can get a good deal on the 14 AWG wire, the incremental cost is very small compared to what you paid for the entire setup. You can try and sell/return the Monster 16 AWG or maybe you can trade it in at the same place you got your speakers, after all you spent lots of money with them ...


I hear ya. I've got the Onkyo SR805 and I'm hoping to not get the popping sound. I think it makes sense to just go with the 14 AWG and remove that variable entirely from the equation. It's probably only another $40-50 extra for the 150ft.
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post #140 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 08:49 AM
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Is my understanding correct that the ProCinema series is like the Bose Acoustimass series in which all the speakers are wired directly to the sub, and then the sub is wired to the Receiver?

This seems like a poor design for rooms which have been pre-wired for surround sound...
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post #141 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCStateFan View Post

Is my understanding correct that the ProCinema series is like the Bose Acoustimass series in which all the speakers are wired directly to the sub, and then the sub is wired to the Receiver?

This seems like a poor design for rooms which have been pre-wired for surround sound...

You can wire them like that if you want to, but you don't have to. In fact if you speak with the people at Def Tech, they will tell you to ignore what the manual says and just hook them up directly to the receiver, if you have a fairly new receiver that does a good job at bass management.

I have the ProCinema 800 and I have them hooked up straight to the receiver and just run 1 cable for the LFE channel, to the sub.
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post #142 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 09:15 AM
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I originally posted this over in the main Def Tech thread, I just noticed this thread focusing on the Pro series so maybe this would be a better thread to post in.


....................

I'm hoping someone here could give me some advice on my surround system upgrade.

Long story short, I sold my old budget surround package. What I am doing is moving my music only (stereo) speakers into my "new" surround system. My first new HT purchase was an Onkyo 705 that has an external amp powering my front Def Tech BP 8Bs (old stereo setup speakers) that I will be adding a ProSub.

My is question is about the center, rear and side channel speakers. For budget reasons I would like to go with a ProCenter 1000 and ProMonitor 800 for the rear/side. Will these speakers fit in well with my current BP 8Bs or do I need to go up in price with a C/L/R and Center Channel Speaker, and bipolar (BP series) rear/side surround speakers? The listening area is a medium sized condo living room.

Also is there an AV forum member or sponsor the sells Definitive Technology speakers?

Thanks,
Artlsinger
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post #143 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Artslinger View Post

Also is there an AV forum member or sponsor the sells Definitive Technology speakers?

Call ABT, Robert at ext 2787 - they sell Def Tech speakers, authorized dealer and he can get you a good deal over the phone - ignore the prices listed on the web site.
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post #144 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

Call ABT, Robert at ext 2787 - they sell Def Tech speakers, authorized dealer and he can get you a good deal over the phone - ignore the prices listed on the web site.

Thanks, and ABT is is only few miles from my house.
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post #145 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 12:17 PM
 
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I have a much older system then most of you. I am running Pro Cinema 200's for the Front's, Pro Cinema C2 for the Center, BPX for the sides, Pro Cinema 800 for the rear, and a Super Cube 3.

I am going to repalce the center soon. Dialog sounds very muddy and I think this may be do to age.

Here are a few pics:



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post #146 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

You can wire them like that if you want to, but you don't have to. In fact if you speak with the people at Def Tech, they will tell you to ignore what the manual says and just hook them up directly to the receiver, if you have a fairly new receiver that does a good job at bass management.

I have the ProCinema 800 and I have them hooked up straight to the receiver and just run 1 cable for the LFE channel, to the sub.

Thanks SirDracula. I'll probably be powering with the HK AVR247 or 347, so I think that should work out then.
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post #147 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCStateFan View Post

Thanks SirDracula. I'll probably be powering with the HK AVR247 or 347, so I think that should work out then.

Yeah, you'll be fine with a direct hookup to the HK. Just make sure you set the crossover knob on the sub all the way up (150Hz) and set the proper crossovers in the receiver for each of the speakers. Run the auto-calibration in the HK and then check/adjust the results with something like Avia or Video Essentials and a RadioShack SPL meter.
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post #148 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 06:28 PM
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Why turn the sub knob to 150? I missed that trick.

Nice pictures ...nerdyone ...makes me want to post pictures.
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post #149 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 08:40 PM
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These are for Adam so he can help me figure this thing out
LL
LL
LL

Living Room: Samsung 46" LCD HDTV (LN-T4665F)/Onkyo 605/Definitive Technology Mythos 8's and BP2X's/Parts Express 15" Titanic Sub/Harmony 890 Remote
Master Bedroom: Polaroid 26" LCD HDTV (2611-TLXB)
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post #150 of 7290 Old 08-21-2007, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamsamish09 View Post

Why turn the sub knob to 150? I missed that trick.

Because you don't want the sub to do any crossover and cut the signal it gets in any way, you want to limit it at the receiver so the sub should play the full signal it gets. Say you're managing the bass/crossover in the receiver and the receiver decides to send the sub some 110Hz signal. Now if the crossover knob on the sub is at say 100Hz, this 110Hz signal it got will be passed to the sub's output speaker connectors which won't have anything connected to them. But if the knob is at 150Hz, the sub will play the 110Hz signal.
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