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post #271 of 15317 Old 08-12-2007, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

And nothing in the Magnolia HT corner that can touch my PS PT800s. Filecat13 knows all about that.

Yeah, I burned those Magnolia Audio Video guys big time when I took two PT800s in to compare to their Sonus Faber Cremonas and MartinLogan Ascents. Details are in posts 344 to 352 here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...PT800+Magnolia

Sadly, I went by the Torrance Magnolia store last Thursday, and it's closed for good. Despite everything, I regret it when another audio/video retailer closes a store. I keep hoping that someday a brick and mortar retailer will get it right. There's a Best Buy not too far away with a Magnolia HT corner in it, but it sucks.

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post #272 of 15317 Old 08-12-2007, 01:04 PM
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Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advice.

I'm going to be wall-mounting my E30s and need to decide on a mount.

I do plan on being able to rotate and tilt the speakers to the optimum setting. I want to try to avoid as much hole drilling as the laws of physics will allow and if I do drill any hole I obviously don't want to damage the internal components of the speakers.

1) Anyone out there wall mount E30s? What product did you use? Care to share your experience? Thanks!

At this point after an extensive search I am down to two: the Omnimount 20.0 and the BTech BT77. The BT77s were initially appealing because I didn't want to drill into the cabinets. However, BTech and users' reviews recommend using support screws to hold the speaker to the brace when tilting the speaker downward. I could also place support screws in the bottom of the speaker.

The Omnimount solution requires drilling a mounting plate into the back of the speaker with recommended 1/2" or 3/4" screws. If I had to drill holes, I'd rather do it to the back where the holes would be less visible. An advantage of the Omnimount solution as well is more tilting freedom; the BT77s are limited to 7 degrees. Additionally, the Omnimounts are far less obtrusive and bulky.

If I were to use the Omnimount solution, I would want to ensure:

2) The thickness and strength of the rear panel of the E30 is enough to support a 1/2" or even 3/4" screw for a mounting plate to be used to support the speaker's weight. Does anyone know the thickness of the cabinet in the back?

I am aware the Omnimount supports mounting the plate on the bottom of the speaker, but I would like to avoid that if possible.

Any additional suggestions beyond my questions? Your advice is greatly appreciated!

Best,
Josh

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post #273 of 15317 Old 08-12-2007, 03:20 PM
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SoonerCaniac, I have E30s in storage that I am planning on using for surrounds in my living room. Due to extreme lack of spare time these days, I haven't been able to mount them yet. Having them "in hand" though, i realize what you are trying to do. For mine I planed on just making some custom shelves for them as I thought they would be too heavy to mount. I don't know anything about those mounts that you mentioned, but it definately sounds as you have done your homework. I'll take a look at them though for sure to see if hopfully they'd be any type of solution for me as well.
I would (IMHO) definately NOT drill holes in the bottom of the cabinets if I didn't have to. That makes me cringe just thinking about it. Putting holes in the back is bad enough.

I just took off the rear connection bracket off the back of one of mine and the back panel measure 5/8" thick.

~Dave

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post #274 of 15317 Old 08-12-2007, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

I would (IMHO) definately NOT drill holes in the bottom of the cabinets if I didn't have to. That makes me cringe just thinking about it. Putting holes in the back is bad enough.

I know, me too, that's why I'm reluctant. Of course, I'm trying to come to grips with the fact that I paid $150 for the pair (they aren't $$$$$ speakers, if you know what I mean), and I don't want them falling off the walls! However, from a physics standpoint, it unfortunately is logical that there is no product out there that allows flexible tilting and rotating without altering the cabinet somehow. I have to make the call about the holes, I know that, but now I just want to make sure I won't damage what matters most. . .the SOUND.

Quote:
I just took off the rear connection bracket off the back of one of mine and the back panel measure 5/8" thick.

Thanks for that info; it is very helpful. I guess the $64,000 question is: Can it support the entire speaker weight?

Here are links for the products I found, in case it helps anyone else in the same predicament:

B-Tech BT-77

Omnimount 20.0

Omnimount 30.0
(Cannot find product page on manufacturer site)

I just came across this one as well, but they recommend 1" screws going into the cabinet.
Vantage Point Soundgear Theatre


Best,
Josh

End LOUDNESS in Music; Fight for High-Resolution Surround Sound: Buy DVD-A/SACD!

Find me at: Last.fm and SA-CD.net
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post #275 of 15317 Old 08-12-2007, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerCaniac View Post

and I don't want them falling off the walls! However, from a physics standpoint, it unfortunately is logical that there is no product out there that allows flexible tilting and rotating without altering the cabinet somehow. I have to make the call about the holes, I know that, but now I just want to make sure I won't damage what matters most. . .the SOUND.
Best,
Josh

You really don't need to have your surround speakers tilted down.
From the elevation of your ears, while seated, your surrounds should be no more than 2' higher to the midpoint of the speakers.

My PT800s and L212s are about 24" tall and the wall mounted surrounds are 58" above the floor to the midpoint of that 24". That's all the elevation you need for surrounds and my seat backs are quite high.
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post #276 of 15317 Old 08-12-2007, 04:58 PM
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there are speaker mounts that do not require drilling, mine have a clamp device that presses against the sides at the bottom and holds the speakers securely. Then you can tilt and adjust as well.

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post #277 of 15317 Old 08-12-2007, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Sadly, I went by the Torrance Magnolia store last Thursday, and it's closed for good. Despite everything, I regret it when another audio/video retailer closes a store. I keep hoping that someday a brick and mortar retailer will get it right. There's a Best Buy not too far away with a Magnolia HT corner in it, but it sucks.

I've never been into a regular Mag, just the two BB Mags in this area, and I'm not overly impressed.
And the only things worth buying at BB are video displays.

But the problem is the B&M can't compete, price wise, with IDs. And most people on this forum think that is the only way to get a cheap deal.
And in Reno we lost the Good Guys, although I think another CE store has moved in there. I keep forgetting to drive by and look.
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post #278 of 15317 Old 08-12-2007, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerCaniac View Post

I know, me too, that's why I'm reluctant. Of course, I'm trying to come to grips with the fact that I paid $150 for the pair (they aren't $$$$$ speakers, if you know what I mean), and I don't want them falling off the walls! However, from a physics standpoint, it unfortunately is logical that there is no product out there that allows flexible tilting and rotating without altering the cabinet somehow. I have to make the call about the holes, I know that, but now I just want to make sure I won't damage what matters most. . .the SOUND.


Thanks for that info; it is very helpful. I guess the $64,000 question is: Can it support the entire speaker weight?

Here are links for the products I found, in case it helps anyone else in the same predicament:

B-Tech BT-77

Omnimount 20.0

Omnimount 30.0
(Cannot find product page on manufacturer site)

I just came across this one as well, but they recommend 1" screws going into the cabinet.
Vantage Point Soundgear Theatre


Best,
Josh


B-Tech BT-77 is the best choice out of the ones listed. You actually wouldn't neccessarily have to put screws in the bottom either. You could get some really strong double sided tape to put between the speaker and the platform. Unless there are kids doing pull-ups on them, then that should hold just fine.

I've also thought that (for large speakers) you could use a nice looking tv wall mount to set them on. Just that the TV ones are so big (the platform) that you'd need a tool to cut the platform down to proper size. PartsExpress has one right now for like $12.

~Dave

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post #279 of 15317 Old 08-12-2007, 07:54 PM
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These are some wall mounts that I made for my Monitor Audio Studio 6's that I use as my surrounds. http://www.pbase.com/rking401/image/221786 (To keep this on topic, my fronts are JBL 4430's ). I would think that you could do something similar, but have the angle you desire built in and attach the speakers to the bracket similar to how televisions are attached to wall brackets (with straps). My only cost for these was for the stain that I used to finish them. The wood was scraps from another project. I don't know what your speakers weigh in at, but the Monitor Audios are QUITE heavy.

Of the ones listed in the above, I agree that the B-Tech is the way to go. No drilling, will hold up to 55 pounds. The only problem I see is that they only give you a + - 7 degree tilt. I would be willing to bet that the picture shown is more than the specified 7 degrees.
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post #280 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 11:57 AM
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Sooner Caniac,

I have 4 E-30's mounted on a DIY bracket, as you can see in the attached snapshot below. Had to do that due to space constraints and it gets the job pretty well though.



What I've done was to build a swivelling iron bracket, facing 45 degrees downwards. No complaints so far. I'm sure if you look around, you'll find some other nice & fancy options, though.

Regards, Chuck
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post #281 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 12:15 PM
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If possible, you want to avoid going all the way through the cabinet with a screw. There are two primary reasons for this: 1) to avoid nicking wiring or the crossover that may be attached to the rear of the cabinet, and 2) to avoid detuning the cabinet down the road by allowing extra air volume to escape. (This is less of a problem with an E30, since it's already ported and you will have screws in the holes, and more of a problem when you give them to someone else who doesn't mount them and doesn't fill the holes.)

Additional reasons not to go all the way through are the weakening of the MDF by cratering it on the inside where you can't see the bits and chunks that fall into who knows where, and the possibility that the attachment point will be weaker if the full screw shaft width goes all the way through.

Carefully pre-drilling the holes to within 1/8" of depth will yield great results. The Web is full of stories about guys who didn't predrill or drilled too small who ruined their projects when the MDF cracked, cratered, or crumbled when installing screws.

The Performance Series PT800 and PC600 have mounting bolts on the back that fit into steel, threaded sleeves. They also come with brackets. Two bolts hold up a 37 pound speaker quite easily. It's a great system, but it would be a lot of work for DIY to try to do the same thing holding up the 50 pound E50.

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post #282 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avliner View Post

Sooner Caniac,

I have 4 E-30's mounted on a DIY bracket, as you can see in the attached snapshot below. Had to do that due to space constraints and it gets the job pretty well though.



What I've done was to build a swivelling iron bracket, facing 45 degrees downwards. No complaints so far. I'm sure if you look around, you'll find some other nice & fancy options, though.

Good job on the black wall. That must really help your video.

Do you have a close up look at the brackets?

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post #283 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

If possible, you want to avoid going all the way through the cabinet with a screw. There are two primary reasons for this: 1) to avoid nicking wiring or the crossover that may be attached to the rear of the cabinet, and 2) to avoid detuning the cabinet down the road by allowing extra air volume to escape. (This is less of a problem with an E30, since it's already ported and you will have screws in the holes, and more of a problem when you give them to someone else who doesn't mount them and doesn't fill the holes.)

Additional reasons not to go all the way through are the weakening of the MDF by cratering it on the inside where you can't see the bits and chunks that fall into who knows where, and the possibility that the attachment point will be weaker if the full screw shaft width goes all the way through.

Carefully pre-drilling the holes to within 1/8" of depth will yield great results. The Web is full of stories about guys who didn't predrill or drilled too small who ruined their projects when the MDF cracked, cratered, or crumbled when installing screws.

The Performance Series PT800 and PC600 have mounting bolts on the back that fit into steel, threaded sleeves. They also come with brackets. Two bolts hold up a 37 pound speaker quite easily. It's a great system, but it would be a lot of work for DIY to try to do the same thing holding up the 50 pound E50.

Wise words indeed. I never thought of the chipping of the mdf falling inside the speaker. I was now thing of just trying a wall mount on mine, but am once again leaning more toward making some custom shelves. Now, just to figure out how to freeze time long enough for me to complete all my projects .

~Dave

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post #284 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 02:03 PM
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I'd like to chime in here seeing this is something I've kinda done myself and had to deal with as well. I would go with the advice of creating a shelf even a angled shelf if need be. I've have my downstairs living room center channel that I have dangled from the ceiling slanted at 50 degree's and what I ended up doing was creating a small shelf with a one pedastal leg with the shelf having a small angled lip to hold the speaker in place (since its not screwed down in any way). Now granted it was a smaller speaker than yours but same priciple I think will apply here. FYI, I have the Omnimount 20's mounted on a 10ft ceiling angled around 40degree's and off camber on some studio series 36II which holds just fine now for last 3 years.

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post #285 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 02:45 PM
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I used a product similar to this one http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=249-020 to mount my E50's for my rear surround speakers.

Bill
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post #286 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 04:56 PM
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I just wanted to thank everyone for posting their opinions and experiences. I am reading all of the posts with great interest. Filecat, thank you for the cabinet specifics; it is very good advice. I am inspired by some of you and your success with DIYers that I'd like to try it myself (rking, your mounts are beautiful!). I agree that if I don't go DIY that the BT77s may make the most sense. Metal is certainly not as attractive as wood, but the BT77s are the best-looking ones of the bunch. We'll see. . .I'll sit on it for a little while while I wait for PartsExpress to deliver some of the accessories I need to make it happen.

In the meantime, the listening continues in 2.1 and 3.1! Just got through a few songs from Elton's Madman SACD and while it was excellent via the E30s, the E90s have made the music literally come alive. I can't get over the midrange improvement. Even stereo tracks from my TV on DVDs sound better and talk about a phantom center channel. . .great imaging!

On Friday night my wife and I did experiment with the sub and ended up moving it behind the couch (we have the couch out about 3.5 feet from the back of the room). . .it used to be in the left front. Our bass experience has improved tremendously now that we have help from the E90s, and instead of the bass originating from the front, it envelops the whole room now. We played the T-Rex scene from Jurassic Park to test it out.

Keep your thoughts coming about those mounts and thanks,
Josh

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post #287 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 07:53 PM
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Question for you DIYers. I feel ashamed that I don't know the answer already, but when it comes to speaker building/repair I don't know too much. A while ago I bought some speakers off fLeaBay and a couple of the woofers have the center-caps pushed in. Is there any way to repair them or should I just buy new woofers. The replacement would probably cost me a total of around $75 for 2 woofers. Any comments would be appreciated.

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post #288 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 08:03 PM
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The center helps shape the waveform and I know of no way to replace them without replacing the entire driver.
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post #289 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 08:09 PM
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You might try using a vacuum cleaner, just depends on how much suction the vacuum has as to if it works and how stiff the cap is.
Also, you can always buy new caps, cut the old ones out and clue in the new.
Parts Express has different sizes.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....up_ID=827&SO=2
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post #290 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

You might try using a vacuum cleaner, just depends on how much suction the vacuum has as to if it works and how stiff the cap is.
Also, you can always buy new caps, cut the old ones out and clue in the new.
Parts Express has different sizes.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....up_ID=827&SO=2

Thanks for the quick responses guys.
Hrrmmm, vedy intervesding. I shall try delving farther into to this rehlm previously unknown to me.
I measured the caps on my speakers and they're 2". Problem is those ones at PtsExp are all bigger, smallest is 2 1/2". Should/could they be trimed?...Is there some kind of "lip" around the edge that overlaps the speaker with the cap?

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post #291 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Thanks for the quick responses guys.
Hrrmmm, vedy intervesding. I shall try delving farther into to this rehlm previously unknown to me.
I measured the caps on my speakers and they're 2". Problem is those ones at PtsExp are all bigger, smallest is 2 1/2". Should/could they be trimed?...Is there some kind of "lip" around the edge that overlaps the speaker with the cap?

Looking at the pic of the 2.5" I would say the lip is 1/8", maybe a 1/4" so the cap would be 2" or just slightly bigger, Should work.
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post #292 of 15317 Old 08-13-2007, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Looking at the pic of the 2.5" I would say the lip is 1/8", maybe a 1/4" so the cap would be 2" or just slightly bigger, Should work.

Went ahead and ordered them. Easy try for $5. Thanks again.

~Dave

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post #293 of 15317 Old 08-14-2007, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Good job on the black wall. That must really help your video.
Do you have a close up look at the brackets?


Shure I do,





BTW, I'm also attaching the new front view arrangement, as I've recently got a Panny 42" Plasma though. IMO, overall view now is a lot better, as the TV is completely black and blends pretty well with the back wall.



Now all 3 fronts are at same level and I put the S38 as CC and E-50's as L/R.

Regards,
Chuck

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post #294 of 15317 Old 08-14-2007, 01:10 PM
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I would have went with two of these....

http://www.performanceaudio.com/cgi/...oducts_id=1275
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post #295 of 15317 Old 08-14-2007, 01:32 PM
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MLK, not a fair comparison when considering price/performance value. Many may consider your choice to be a good choice for the price, but the E50s could be had for less than half the price 8330As ($500) for a pair. When JBL was "clearing out stock" just before the discontinuation of the E series, a pair of E50s could be had for $200. Now as for the S38s, those can be had on fLeaBay for even less.

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post #296 of 15317 Old 08-14-2007, 01:43 PM
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They look to be easy to wall mount is all.
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post #297 of 15317 Old 08-14-2007, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

If possible, you want to avoid going all the way through the cabinet with a screw. There are two primary reasons for this: 1) to avoid nicking wiring or the crossover that may be attached to the rear of the cabinet, and 2) to avoid detuning the cabinet down the road by allowing extra air volume to escape. (This is less of a problem with an E30, since it's already ported and you will have screws in the holes, and more of a problem when you give them to someone else who doesn't mount them and doesn't fill the holes.)

One other thing that can be done is to get a few Tee nuts, say 1/4 20, or what ever size will work. Then remove which ever driver gives the most access to the inside of the speaker box.
Check the inside for clearances so you don't drill through crossovers or wires.
Drill through the box where you need mounting holes and then insert the tee nuts from the inside.
Use a bit of adhesive to make sure they stay in place, if you like, re-mount the driver and you're good to go. Could even add a bit of coax seal to the inside surface, over the tee nuts to seal the box.
I've used tee nuts to attach crossover boards to the insides of speaker boxes.
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post #298 of 15317 Old 08-14-2007, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MLKstudios View Post

They look to be easy to wall mount is all.


~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #299 of 15317 Old 08-14-2007, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

One other thing that can be done is to get a few Tee nuts, say 1/4 20, or what ever size will work. Then remove which ever driver gives the most access to the inside of the speaker box.
Check the inside for clearances so you don't drill through crossovers or wires.
Drill through the box where you need mounting holes and then insert the tee nuts from the inside.
Use a bit of adhesive to make sure they stay in place, if you like, re-mount the driver and you're good to go. Could even add a bit of coax seal to the inside surface, over the tee nuts to seal the box.
I've used tee nuts to attach crossover boards to the insides of speaker boxes.

Tee nuts???

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #300 of 15317 Old 08-14-2007, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Tee nuts???

Yes, any hardware store will have them in the bolt and nut isle. They are round, and tee shaped. The part that goes through the hole, that has been drilled through the box is around a 1/4 in diameter, depending on the size. The flare, or tee, has teeth that bite into the inside surface of the box to hold it in place.
You run the screw, or bolt, through the shelf into the speaker box tee nut to hold the box to the shelf.
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