The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 103 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:00 PM
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:06 PM
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Pardon if this has already been covered but I am looking for a better matching center for my surround system. Any advice, good or bad, is welcome. My system currently consists of:
  • Processor: Yamaha RX-N600 (6.1 surround processor)
  • Front speakers: L100S (I bought them new from the Rhein-Main AV Club, in Germany in 1992).
  • Rear speakers: LXE330 (Bought off craigslist a couple months ago.)
  • Front center: ARC Center (Bought off craigslist a couple days ago.)
  • Rear center: nothing at this time

The L100S's are not L100s or L100's. The badging on the front is "L100S", and they are not listed on the JBL website. Nor does it seem that anybody discusses them in forums or anywhere else. I can post a pic if needed.

The LXE330's are a great match for the L100S's as they have the same construction, same tweeters and midbass cones. They also are a great tonal match. They were made between 1994-1995.

The ARC Center is not a great match. It has a very nasal tone compared to the other speakers and the highs are not nearly as crisp. I have cranked it up a bit to compensate but it just isn't cutting it. I just bought it and am not happy with it.

I have thought of just finding another set of LXE330's for the front and rear centers but am not sure if this is the best way to go as they are not on the smaller size.

Anybody have recommendations on a early 90's era center speaker which could be a better match?

P.S. I also have a JBL Control 5 subwoofer, which is not hooked up right now. When I do hook it up I will drive it with a Onkyo Grand Integra 1000 watt amp. (Both are circa early 1990's) With the L100S's this would just be overkill right now.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:46 AM
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I've got an older JBL Control SB-5 that doesn't appear to be providing the desired output.

It's connected to 4 ohm system, the subwoofer is producing sound but not much. When I hook up my Control 5 monitors they practically drown out the SB-5.

Is there any suggestions as to how to test the SB-5 for proper output without spending money taking it to a professional?

I have another pair of Control 5 monitors that need their foam surrounds replaced and am suspicious that the SB-5 may have the same problem.
If I find this to be the case after opening up the enclosure for inspection, can anybody here recommend a secure website I can buy SB-5 foam surrounds from? I know surrounds are available for the Control 5's but have yet to explore price and availability and whether or not you can buy them for the SB-5.

Thanks in advance for any help and I look forward to reading the AVS forums.

Best regards,
~ Rob
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:52 AM
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Hi! I finally did it, i bought Denon 2808 after successfully selling my rotel 1068, i know it's not actually an upgrade but just to keep up with the latest sound format i decided happily on that.

Anyway, going back to my delemma, since iam planning to use my denon 2808 solely as preamp because i have an existing rotel 1075 120x5 powering my 5 speakers i thought of buying a very good 2channel or stereo power amp to drive my fronts so as to complete my 7.1 setup. I've been contemplating on buying one of these power amps: NAD c272 150x2, Anthem MC20 225x2 or a rotel rb 1080 200wX2. My problem is i can't audition any of these amps with my current setup because i live too far from a/v stores i usually buy at. So basically everything i buy was not auditioned at all and i rely solely on forums or friendly guys who fortunately had the same setup that i was eyeing for.

By the way, my setup is JBL studio L x2 L880(fronts) and x4 L820(surrounds) Anthem and Rotel is being sold roughly at the same price points in our country both priced at approx. $1.2k while the NAD is at $666 only. THD of rotel and anthem is exactly the same at .03 while nad at .02 so i think there would be very minimal mismatching problem in that part. Any thoughts guys? .. Thanks
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelone View Post

  • Front speakers: L100S (I bought them new from the Rhein-Main AV Club, in Germany in 1992).
  • Rear speakers: LXE330 (Bought off craigslist a couple months ago.)
  • Front center: ARC Center (Bought off craigslist a couple days ago.)
  • Rear center: nothing at this time

The L100S's are not L100s or L100's. The badging on the front is "L100S", and they are not listed on the JBL website. Nor does it seem that anybody discusses them in forums or anywhere else. I can post a pic if needed.

The LXE330's are a great match for the L100S's as they have the same construction, same tweeters and midbass cones. They also are a great tonal match. They were made between 1994-1995.

The ARC Center is not a great match. It has a very nasal tone compared to the other speakers and the highs are not nearly as crisp. I have cranked it up a bit to compensate but it just isn't cutting it. I just bought it and am not happy with it.

I have thought of just finding another set of LXE330's for the front and rear centers but am not sure if this is the best way to go as they are not on the smaller size.

The best center would be another of the same, in this case the L100S. You might look for a L100t3, they use the same xo as the L100S.
The ARC were pretty low end speakers, I remember seeing them in Costco wholesale (not known for quality audio) about 15 years ago.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Denon disc player, MacBook Pro w/ DragonFly usbDAC.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spenz View Post

Anyway, going back to my delemma, since iam planning to use my denon 2808 solely as preamp because i have an existing rotel 1075 120x5 powering my 5 speakers i thought of buying a very good 2channel or stereo power amp to drive my fronts so as to complete my 7.1 setup. I've been contemplating on buying one of these power amps: NAD c272 150x2, Anthem MC20 225x2 or a rotel rb 1080 200wX2.
By the way, my setup is JBL studio L x2 L880(fronts) and x4 L820(surrounds) Anthem and Rotel is being sold roughly at the same price points in our country both priced at approx. $1.2k while the NAD is at $666 only. THD of rotel and anthem is exactly the same at .03 while nad at .02 so i think there would be very minimal mismatching problem in that part. Any thoughts guys? .. Thanks

All of those amps are of good quality, just go with ever one you can get the best deal on. It never hurts using separate power amps, but the difference between the Rotel and Denon is only 10wpc, so you're not gaining any power. Unless the Rotel is conservative in its power ratings and the Denon has over rated power.
So if you are going to spend money on an amp, might as well get one that is at least 200wpc to drive the mains.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Denon disc player, MacBook Pro w/ DragonFly usbDAC.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

The best center would be another of the same, in this case the L100S. You might look for a L100t3, they use the same xo as the L100S.
The ARC were pretty low end speakers, I remember seeing them in Costco wholesale (not known for quality audio) about 15 years ago.

Expanding on 4DHD's post, the L100S was the vinyl clad version of the L100T, which had actual veneer. There's some dispute over whether "S" stands for "special" or "service" or nothing, but in any case the L100S was a special version for service men and women available at US military bases in the base BX, NEX, or PX.

There are no purpose-built center channel speakers for the old L100T or L100T3 speaker lines. However there were smaller models in those lines, including the smallish L20T and L20T3, which a number of folks use as centers. There was also an L40T3 which might be short enough to fit underneath a screen or TV for use as a center.

These would be virtually exact timbre matches for the L100S, using the same 035TiA tweeter.

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Old 07-08-2008, 02:50 PM
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^^^ LOL ... wow after 2 months somebody at least partially answered my question about a good center match for the L100T ... Perhaps if I had bumped.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:20 PM
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Better late and half done than never, eh?

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Old 07-08-2008, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

All of those amps are of good quality, just go with ever one you can get the best deal on. It never hurts using separate power amps, but the difference between the Rotel and Denon is only 10wpc, so you're not gaining any power. Unless the Rotel is conservative in its power ratings and the Denon has over rated power.
So if you are going to spend money on an amp, might as well get one that is at least 200wpc to drive the mains.

Thanks for your suggestion mate! Iam not sure if rotel or anthem is conservative in power ratings but my denon is only 110x7 and both rotel and anthem are over 200wx2 so i guess it's a good upgrade either way. A while ago i was thinking of doing biamp i'll use denon as my high frequency amp and use rotel 1075 and either anthem mca20,nad c272 or rotel 1080 to power my low frequencies.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:56 PM
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hi guys is there a big difference between the LC1 and LC2 center speakers?
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotc View Post

hi guys is there a big difference between the LC1 and LC2 center speakers?

Some like to match the LC1 with either/or the L810, and L830 as they're all 3-ways.
Others like to match the LC2 with the L820, L880, L890 as they are all 4-ways.
Its just what one prefers really, as the entire series is voiced matched. One main difference is the LC2 is wall mountable.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Denon disc player, MacBook Pro w/ DragonFly usbDAC.
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotc View Post

hi guys is there a big difference between the LC1 and LC2 center speakers?

Just got my new LC2 yesterday, replacing an S-Center that is similar to the LC1. The difference is fairly obvious, the LC2 has some serious huevos. But you'll want to match your L-R mains so go with the best match.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:30 PM
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Hey guys,

Not really a JBL speaker specific question, but I do have the L-series speakers We are building a house and are getting ready to put our old one on the market. In order to sell it I am going to have to store the speakers for a while (probably 6 - 7 months). I am going to rent a storage unit and will have them all in the boxes they came in (just got them a week ago and took them all out to ensure they were working).

Is this a bad idea? The storage place doesn't have any water issues, but it will be pretty hot through the summer being that I am in Kansas (100+)

What do ya think? Thanks!
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:49 PM
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It is a considerably long time in storage. You only have to care for humidity problems. Put your speakers inside a nylon bag, seal those bags, then into the boxes.
Hope everything goes well.
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:11 PM
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Buy some premium clear packing tape, and tape the boxes up like Fort Knox. Sealing every seam as well as possible, to prvent humidity from getting inside the boxes.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:37 PM
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Excellent, thanks guys. I will seal in bags and then seal the boxes also.
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Old 07-09-2008, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

You won't be disappointed, and to get the most from the L890s use an amp of at least 200w, especially if its a large room. They are very good throughout the entire range, and with enough power, those dual 8" woofers will really give you plenty of bass.
I originally had a pair connected to a 220wpc amp in a large HT/LR and the L890s just completly filled the room with sound w/o a sub.


4DHD, i'm thinking of getting an amp to power the front stage and just let my Onkyo do the rear channels. The front will consist of the L890s that I will soon pickup, and my LC2 I already have, and ill be moving the L820's I currently have as the L&R to the surroudn positions.

What do you, and anyone else for that matter, recommend as a good amp for the L890s? Do they have single channel amps? If only 2 channel or higher then id have to buy (2) 2 channel amps, and then only use one channel of it on the LC2.

Basically just looking for brands and maybe models to consider so I can hunt and compare prices.

Thanks
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Old 07-09-2008, 03:47 PM
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I don't like to do this usually, but everyone keeps talking about amps. I'm getting ready to sell a LOT of stuff that is collecting dust. We are getting ready to buy a new house soon, and I don't want to have to move everything again. Among other things, I have six Audiosource Amp One/A amplifiers. 80w x 2 -or- 200w x 1.
PM if interested.

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...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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Old 07-09-2008, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFyre22 View Post

4DHD, i'm thinking of getting an amp to power the front stage and just let my Onkyo do the rear channels. The front will consist of the L890s that I will soon pickup, and my LC2 I already have, and ill be moving the L820's I currently have as the L&R to the surroudn positions.

What do you, and anyone else for that matter, recommend as a good amp for the L890s? Do they have single channel amps? If only 2 channel or higher then id have to buy (2) 2 channel amps, and then only use one channel of it on the LC2.

Basically just looking for brands and maybe models to consider so I can hunt and compare prices.

Thanks

There are 3 channel amps to power the fronts. Or just get a 2 channel amp to power the L890s, and let the receiver do the rest. But get at least a 200w, high current amp for the L890s. I like Parasound, but there are many good brands.
Marantz used to make single amps, don't know if they still do. But using all single amps means more cords to have to deal with.

Custom, one of a kind pair, MJC212 mains, mod PT800 center, PT800 surrounds, SUB1500s. Parasound P7, Citation 19, Parasound HCA2205A, HK AVR3600, Marantz TT, Denon disc player, MacBook Pro w/ DragonFly usbDAC.
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Old 07-09-2008, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

There are 3 channel amps to power the fronts. Or just get a 2 channel amp to power the L890s, and let the receiver do the rest. But get at least a 200w, high current amp for the L890s. I like Parasound, but there are many good brands.
Marantz used to make single amps, don't know if they still do. But using all single amps means more cords to have to deal with.

I like the new signature.

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Old 07-09-2008, 09:41 PM
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So... many of us are pretty happy with a 5.1, 5.2, 7.1 or 7.2 setup with the Studio L's and various subs...

Many of us had jumped onto the Onkyo bandwagon when they rolled out the x05 series of AVRs supporting HDMI 1.3a...

While I'm fairly happy with my setup (Onkyo 805, L890s, LC2, L820s, and L8400)... I was thinking about room treatments, acoustic panels, bass traps, even DREAMING about a Parasound A51 amplifier to get the most out of the Studio Ls... and then I realized the Parasound A51 covers frequencies from 20hz to 20khz:

Continuous power output:
250 watts RMS x 5, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 8 Ω, all channels driven
400 watts RMS x 5, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 4 Ω, all channels driven

1) Studio L890s frequency range 28hz to 40khz. From the SoundStage Equipment Review,

"The L890 is a four-way, front-ported floorstanding design featuring a 3/4" Mylar-dome ultra-high-frequency tweeter, a 1" titanium-dome tweeter, a 4" midrange, and two 8" woofers, all arranged in vertical descent from ultra highs to lows. All drivers are proprietary to JBL. The crossover points are given as 700Hz, 5kHz, and 20kHz -- yes, that uppermost tweeter plays only above what is considered the highest point of human hearing. The L890's frequency range is claimed to be 28Hz-40kHz, and its sensitivity is listed at an above-average 91dB/W/m, with a nominal impedance of 8 ohms."

Wonderful stuff.

2) The Onkyo SR805 frequency response ranges from 20hz to 20khz. From the manual,

130 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8
ohm loads, 2 channels driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz,
with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.05%.

So my 6 month old, $700 receiver won't produce frequencies above 20khz. Then again, my 40 year old ears probably aren't hearing anything above 20khz anyway.

Somehow, my 40 year old brain missed these facts when I ordered the Onkyo 805.

All of a sudden, I have more questions...

3) Which AVRs reproduce frequencies above 20khz?
4) Which SACDs or DVD-As reproduce frequencies above 20khz? Which movie/music producers are recording any sounds with frequencies higher than 20khz?

Then again...

a) I like what I hear so far...
b) I don't have a whole lot more money to spend...
c) Not sure I'll be able to hear anything over 20 khz anyway, though some attest to ultrasonic frequencies affecting the harmonics of the frequencies we do hear?
d) the onkyo 805 seems to be a bargain for what it does offer...

Your thoughts? Besides the obvious that I hit a mid-life crisis at 40?

PilotAce
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:50 PM
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Snake oil... anthing above 20khz should not even be considered for discussion IMO. You can't even hear it, so what's the point.
I'm not trying to be rude,. I'm just sayin... ya know?

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:50 PM
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I don't even crank up the volume all that much... wife and two kids with tender ears to protect...

Would a 200+wpc amplifier make any difference compared to an Onkyo 805 with 130wpc, when played at low volumes?

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Old 07-09-2008, 09:53 PM
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I'm just wondering if JBL's designs for their prosumer speakers (ES, L, Performance and above) make any sense above 20khz?

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Old 07-09-2008, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotAce View Post

I don't even crank up the volume all that much... wife and two kids with tender ears to protect...

Would a 200+wpc amplifier make any difference compared to an Onkyo 805 with 130wpc, when played at low volumes?

Probably not much. There may be a slight enhancement of... robustness to the sound, but certainly not louder or "more powerful" so to speak. This is where the slightest differences it setups make the real difference... like speaker placement, room treatment, room structure, ect...
The only real way of knowing, is to try it both ways and hear the difference for yourself.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotAce View Post

I'm just wondering if JBL's designs for their prosumer speakers (ES, L, Performance and above) make any sense above 20khz?

That's a can of worms my friend . I say no, plenty of audiophiles will say yes. It's really more of a "theory" discussion. I believe there is a seperate forum for that kind of stuff here. They REALLY get into it over there

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:10 PM
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And... let's say frequencies over 20khz do make a difference with the overall sound...

1) what equipment makes the most of those frequencies?
2) what recording material (SACD, DVD-A) contains those frequencies?
3) what artists are producing such material?

Just food for thought... I'd have to be a lottery winner to spend 4K on a Parasound A51 amplifier at this point, to stack with the Onkyo 805...

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Old 07-09-2008, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotAce View Post

I'm just wondering if JBL's designs for their prosumer speakers (ES, L, Performance and above) make any sense above 20khz?

Do some reading on the topic of harmonics. It's not like amps and speakers just clip anything above 20k, they don't. The response rolls off but the audio is still there. Being able to reproduce the higher frequencies, the speaker is able to also reproduce the harmonics of those frequencies at the lower octaves. It's all wrapped up in how we hear things. If JBL feels that the results are worth the effort, I won't argue with them. Point being that just because we cant hear a test tone at 30Hz, doesn't mean we don't perceive it's effects on the lower frequencies.
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Old 07-09-2008, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotAce View Post

3) Which AVRs reproduce frequencies above 20khz?

Actually, almost all of them (the solid state variety) *can* reproduce above 20kHz ... in fact many of them are flat all the way to 100kHz or higher (but not necessarily at the full FTC rated power.)

Hint: your 805 is one of them.

Whether this is beneficial to anyone other than your family dog is another debate.

The so-called 20kHz "cut-off" on the power spec exists because many, many moons ago the FTC decreed that there should be a minimum specification. The power amp need to be able to produce 1/3 of that power over a specific frequency range continuously for at least an hour without self destructing (as many early solid-state amps had a tendency to do.)
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