The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 02:33 PM
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If you mount it just below the screen it shouldn't be a problem, as the second row is higher than the first. Plus you can always tilt the center back a bit.
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post #542 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

If you mount it just below the screen it shouldn't be a problem, as the second row is higher than the first. Plus you can always tilt the center back a bit.

That will definitely save me a TON of work
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post #543 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

I doesn't make any difference what a center goes to if the xo in the receiver is set to the standard 80htz. I don't know where you heard about the 60htz thing. Sounds like a sales pitch to me.
There is no loss in the center anyway. As with all sat speaker channels, the frequencies below the xo are directed to the sub(s) and/or mains.
As far as the Voice, that is your call, how it sounds to your ears, if there is a BB near you they should have the Venue Series. As far as the L880s, I've never heard them, just the L890s and they are awesome.

Don't get me wrong about the L880's. They are very nice and I liked them but I found the RTi8's to be a little brighter. From what I've learned in the forum is some folks don't like bright. I like a little.

Thanks for the info on xo and subwoofer. So much to learn, so little time.
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post #544 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 03:52 PM
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Can anyone here give me their thoughts on whether a pair of Jbl stadiums would be a worthwhile upgrade to a pair of in-wall polks?
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post #545 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by plnorris View Post

Can anyone here give me their thoughts on whether a pair of Jbl stadiums would be a worthwhile upgrade to a pair of in-wall polks?

There's a reason why people go with in-walls... to avoid having those big speakers standing out where everyone can see them. The in-walls can blend in with the background. Although there are some pretty darn good in-wall speakers made now-a-days, cabinet style speakers will always be better because of the greater flexability in design. Now there are plenty upon plenty of speakers out there that high-end in-walls will beat out, but the nicer cabinet speakers are going to usually sound better in the long run. Mostly in the lower range and a "fuller" sound is where the cabinet speakers will prevail. You're not mentioning what model and what the specs are of the Polks. You'll get more responses and help when you provide as much information as possible.

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post #546 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 04:15 PM
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Hey Smarty, I believe the polks are the RC80i. Eight inch cone with a one inch directional tweeter. They were already installed in our house when we moved here. Also these in wall speakers are not boxed in.
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post #547 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 04:46 PM
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Also I'd like to mention that I did contact the previous home owner and he couldn't recall which brand those speakers were, but that he did spend about 700$ for five of them. So I'm asuming that they're polks by some measurements I took and then compared them to the polks. The center speaker is rectangular and is the only one that matched in dimensions exactly to the polk RC55i. Here is another question concerning the stadiums. I wanted to upgrade the center speaker also and got a boston acoustics VRCB center. I wonder how well it will match up with the stadiums? The reason for the boston center is that I was going to get the boston VR2 towers, but I didn't like the way they sounded. The boston center is still in an unopened box so it could be easily returned. I paid 200 for it.
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post #548 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by plnorris View Post

Also I'd like to mention that I did contact the previous home owner and he couldn't recall which brand those speakers were, but that he did spend about 700$ for five of them. So I'm asuming that they're polks by some measurements I took and then compared them to the polks. The center speaker is rectangular and is the only one that matched in dimensions exactly to the polk RC55i. Here is another question concerning the stadiums. I wanted to upgrade the center speaker also and got a boston acoustics VRCB center. I wonder how well it will match up with the stadiums? The reason for the boston center is that I was going to get the boston VR2 towers, but I didn't like the way they sounded. The boston center is still in an unopened box so it could be easily returned. I paid 200 for it.

You shouldn't mix different series from the same brand across LCR let alone mixing two different brands.
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post #549 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 05:21 PM
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bilbo, not trying to be rude here, but do your ears tell you not to mix series or brands or is it marketing? I believe you are probably correct because it sure makes sense to me when a lot of people on this forum suggest using 3 identical speakers for L C R. I think the center that matches the stadium series is the voice and it has a plastic cabinet!! I don't really want a speaker with a plastic cabinet. But do you think those stadiums would sound significantly better than the in-walls? Any other suggestions for a center?
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post #550 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by plnorris View Post

bilbo, not trying to be rude here, but do your ears tell you not to mix series or brands or is it marketing? I believe you are probably correct because it sure makes sense to me when a lot of people on this forum suggest using 3 identical speakers for L C R. I think the center that matches the stadium series is the voice and it has a plastic cabinet!! I don't really want a speaker with a plastic cabinet. But do you think those stadiums would sound significantly better than the in-walls? Any other suggestions for a center?

Like you I have read posts and internet articles saying that a perfect match of LCR speakers would be identical speakers. As a practical matter the C speaker usually can't match the LR unless you want it right in front of your screen. So we buy timbre matched speakers from the manufacturer for C.

I understand the concept of timbre matching but can't claim any expertise on how much difference the typical listener will hear. Like the expression goes "Your Mileage May Vary".

I thought different series may not be as important going from front to back as I was considering the Studio series for LCR and the Venue series for surrounds and rears. I sent an email to JBL asking if this would work. His response was the series are not timbre matched but would work. However, he then said I would notice a timbre difference as dialogue and audio sweeps around the room, especially at higher volume levels. In summary, he tells me mixing will work then tells me twice there is a difference and I will notice it.

The Stadiums should be better than the in-walls. Shoot JBL an email about an alternative to the Voice. I contacted them Friday and they got back to me yesterday.
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post #551 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plnorris View Post

bilbo, not trying to be rude here, but do your ears tell you not to mix series or brands or is it marketing? I believe you are probably correct because it sure makes sense to me when a lot of people on this forum suggest using 3 identical speakers for L C R. I think the center that matches the stadium series is the voice and it has a plastic cabinet!! I don't really want a speaker with a plastic cabinet. But do you think those stadiums would sound significantly better than the in-walls? Any other suggestions for a center?

NO, it is not marketing. If speakers used in a multi-channel system are not voiced matched(timbre matched) you WILL hear the difference. I know from personal experience. And it doesn't matter what channels we are talking about, LCR, SS, BS. Although you do seem to have a bit of wiggle room of the BS.
As for the in-walls, unless the quality of the in-walls is miles better than the Stadiums, the Stadiums should be better.
I have identical speakers for 5 of my 7 channels, only the BS are different. All JBLs. The only difference between the L/R and my center is the PT800 mains sit on top of the subs, and the center has 4" rods, in the front of the bottom and shorter ones in the back so that it is tilted back but off the floor and just below the screen.
LL
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post #552 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 07:24 PM
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Attached Images dcp_0007.jpg (79.3 KB, 3 views)


What is that back there in the corner?... a Behringer A500? Do you drive a sub or speakers with it? (if you don't mind me asking )

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post #553 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

What is that back there in the corner?... a Behringer A500? Do you drive a sub or speakers with it? (if you don't mind me asking )

No Behringer. Behind the Left main is all the gear. On top is a cable box that sits on top of a Parasound 2505 THX 5 channel amp, 220wpc. The subs are driven by a Crown K2 stereo amp, 800wpc. If I wire the two subs in parallel to one side of the K2 they get 1250w/ea.
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post #554 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

No Behringer. Behind the Left main is all the gear. On top is a cable box that sits on top of a Parasound 2505 THX 5 channel amp, 220wpc. The subs are driven by a Crown K2 stereo amp, 800wpc. If I wire the two subs in parallel to one side of the K2 they get 1250w/ea.

Oh ok. Thanks for the reply. It was hard to make out and I was thinking of buying a couple of the A500s and thought to ask how you like 'em, but since that's not even what it is then... nevermind . Nice setup BTW .

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post #555 of 15431 Old 09-23-2007, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plnorris View Post

bilbo, not trying to be rude here, but do your ears tell you not to mix series or brands or is it marketing? I believe you are probably correct because it sure makes sense to me when a lot of people on this forum suggest using 3 identical speakers for L C R. I think the center that matches the stadium series is the voice and it has a plastic cabinet!! I don't really want a speaker with a plastic cabinet. But do you think those stadiums would sound significantly better than the in-walls? Any other suggestions for a center?

Here's a thread about the center channel that you might find interesting. It was started yesterday and it's already three pages long. Lot's of passion.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=912123
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post #556 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bilbo3660 View Post

Like you I have read posts and internet articles saying that a perfect match of LCR speakers would be identical speakers. As a practical matter the C speaker usually can't match the LR unless you want it right in front of your screen. So we buy timbre matched speakers from the manufacturer for C.

I understand the concept of timbre matching but can't claim any expertise on how much difference the typical listener will hear. Like the expression goes "Your Mileage May Vary".

I thought different series may not be as important going from front to back as I was considering the Studio series for LCR and the Venue series for surrounds and rears. I sent an email to JBL asking if this would work. His response was the series are not timbre matched but would work. However, he then said I would notice a timbre difference as dialogue and audio sweeps around the room, especially at higher volume levels. In summary, he tells me mixing will work then tells me twice there is a difference and I will notice it.

The Stadiums should be better than the in-walls. Shoot JBL an email about an alternative to the Voice. I contacted them Friday and they got back to me yesterday.


I am not a big "timbre matcher either however, I have some pioneer mains and a Cerwin Vega center channel and there is a definite difrence in the sound. the transition is not smooth at all especially soce the cerwin vega has igger bass drivers than the mains! anyway, I can't wait to swap that athing out.


Thanks,
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post #557 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 05:41 AM
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I am not a big "timbre matcher either however, I have some pioneer mains and a Cerwin Vega center channel and there is a definite difrence in the sound. the transition is not smooth at all especially soce the cerwin vega has igger bass drivers than the mains! anyway, I can't wait to swap that athing out.


Thanks,

My $.02 here - Until this weekend we had a piecemeal system with JBL S38 fronts and Bose center/surround. It sounded decent, but not great, and you could distinctly tell which speakers were on. Saturday we watched our first movie with a full JBL Studio L series setup. My wife asked not more than 5 minutes into the movie - are the surrounds even on? Granted there was not a lot of action behind us, but mainly it was that much of a blended sound stage to where there was no way to tell which speaker is on or where the sound is coming from.

So I would say, that if you have never heard different you may not miss a true timbre matched system, but even someone that has never heard of timbre matching will immediately notice a difference in the way things sound.
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post #558 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 07:26 AM
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A lot of good information from different perspectives. Thank you all very much! One other thing I wanted to mention about the Stadiums. How crazy of an idea would it be to put a light coat of flat black spray paint on those silver grills?
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post #559 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 08:59 AM
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Timber matching in my own personal experience is important and noticeable when you dont have a match. Im piecing together my Studio L series system and so far have purchased the LC2 and a pair of L820's. The L820's will eventually be the surround speakers. But I havent purchased my L890 towers yet, so the L820's are now serving the duty of being my l and R mains. This setup of L820, LC2, L820 for the front stage is pretty phenomenal during movies. Damn it sounds good and that LC2 sure has some balls LoL. What im running as my surrounds are the JBL stallite speakers from a SCS home cinema speaker package I purchased about 6 years ago. Im still using the sub fromt hat setup too (talk about underwhelming and crappy sub)

The sattelites are way to bright and completely noticeable. When an effect pans from front to back, lets just say the transition is abrupt to say the least. So I would recommend get the same series speakers all around for proper timbre matching.
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post #560 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnio View Post

My $.02 here - Until this weekend we had a piecemeal system with JBL S38 fronts and Bose center/surround. It sounded decent, but not great, and you could distinctly tell which speakers were on. Saturday we watched our first movie with a full JBL Studio L series setup. My wife asked not more than 5 minutes into the movie - are the surrounds even on? Granted there was not a lot of action behind us, but mainly it was that much of a blended sound stage to where there was no way to tell which speaker is on or where the sound is coming from.

So I would say, that if you have never heard different you may not miss a true timbre matched system, but even someone that has never heard of timbre matching will immediately notice a difference in the way things sound.

I agree because I have a 7.1 in my office and play a lot of video games with my daughter. My Pio 84 will simulate back information, Even though it is blended well you can definitely tell which direction a sound is coming from. make sure you calibrate your system. I have found that I have to run the 820s and 810 and bit hotter that the 890s. My wife can definitely tell the difference going from one room to the other.
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post #561 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by plnorris View Post

A lot of good information from different perspectives. Thank you all very much! One other thing I wanted to mention about the Stadiums. How crazy of an idea would it be to put a light coat of flat black spray paint on those silver grills?

I would strongly recommend against that. The spray paint will easily clog up the porous fabric, and make the grills detrimental to you sound quality.

Refabric them in black, take them off all together, or sell them to a friend and get the black speakers you want.

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post #562 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 10:45 AM
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I would strongly recommend against that. The spray paint will easily clog up the porous fabric, and make the grills detrimental to you sound quality.

Refabric them in black, take them off all together, or sell them to a friend and get the black speakers you want.

I'd have to agree on the paint. And they don't look all that easy to refabric. I'm thinking it would be pretty easy to just make new grills.
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post #563 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 10:52 AM
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I just read this whole thread, I really enjoyed it. I've been using JBL since the mid nineties when I got my first HT rig. Here's what I'm using now:

JBL E80 Northridge Main Speakers
JBL EC35 Center
JBL LXE550 Surrounds(rather icey sound as main speakers, but they blend in nicely as surrounds)
HSU STF-1 Subwoofer

Once in awhile I use the SCenter just for experimentation, and it actually voices quite well with the Northridge E80's.


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post #564 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonnio View Post

My $.02 here - Until this weekend we had a piecemeal system with JBL S38 fronts and Bose center/surround. It sounded decent, but not great, and you could distinctly tell which speakers were on. Saturday we watched our first movie with a full JBL Studio L series setup. My wife asked not more than 5 minutes into the movie - are the surrounds even on? Granted there was not a lot of action behind us, but mainly it was that much of a blended sound stage to where there was no way to tell which speaker is on or where the sound is coming from.

So I would say, that if you have never heard different you may not miss a true timbre matched system, but even someone that has never heard of timbre matching will immediately notice a difference in the way things sound.

Sounds, pun intended, like you have a nice system. Enjoy.
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post #565 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 12:21 PM
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Just a comment on timbre.

Once you finally try timbre matching, you'll generally know why it's so important. It may not always be a night and day difference, but it's always better.

Imagine that you know your Mom's voice, and she's standing right in front of you talking. Even with eyes closed you know it's her, in part because of the timbre of her voice. If you have five Mom clones, all standing at a 5.1 position (LF, C, RF, LS, RS) then you'll hear your Mom's voice sounding the same wherever her voice comes from. (Forget about the room anomalies for a second, okay?)

Now, imagine that your Mom is still the center channel, but your loud-mouthed aunt Betty is LF and LR, and your 11-year-old, squeeky cousin Emily is the LS and RS. If they repeat your Mom's words precisely, at the same time with the same pitch, will you still hear your Mom wherever the sound comes from? The answer is no, even if Betty and Emily are trying to imitate your Mom's voice.

Why not? Different timbre.

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post #566 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 12:30 PM
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Well, as much as I like JBL products, I'm forced to admit that the grilles on the Venue Series are not my cup of tea. If I had a set, I'd take them off and leave them off.

Trying to paint them will likely result in unhappiness. They won't paint easily, and you'll have to watch for runs that clog the pores and make the covering too dense. Also, the paint will be brittle on that surface and flake, fall off , or scrape off easily, especially if you have cats or kids. Then you'll have really ugly grilles: black with uneven bits of silver here and there. Plus the denser you make the covering, the more it'll impede the sound.

Sorry to say it, but if you don't like them, your options are few: remove them, or make your own.

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post #567 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Just a comment on timbre.

Once you finally try timbre matching, you'll generally know why it's so important. It may not always be a night and day difference, but it's always better.

Imagine that you know your Mom's voice, and she's standing right in front of you talking. Even with eyes closed you know it's her, in part because of the timbre of her voice. If you have five Mom clones, all standing at a 5.1 position (LF, C, RF, LS, RS) then you'll hear your Mom's voice sounding the same wherever her voice comes from. (Forget about the room anomalies for a second, okay?)

Now, imagine that your Mom is still the center channel, but your loud-mouthed aunt Betty is LF and LR, and your 11-year-old, squeeky cousin Emily is the LS and RS. If they repeat your Mom's words precisely, at the same time with the same pitch, will you still hear your Mom wherever the sound comes from? The answer is no, even if Betty and Emily are trying to imitate your Mom's voice.

Why not? Different timbre.

Great analogy! I wonder if they would sound the same if they were nagging you?
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post #568 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 12:38 PM
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Great analogy! I wonder if they would sound the same if they were nagging you?

They would all sound the same... annoying.

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JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #569 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by eugovector View Post

I would strongly recommend against that. The spray paint will easily clog up the porous fabric, and make the grills detrimental to you sound quality.

Refabric them in black, take them off all together, or sell them to a friend and get the black speakers you want.

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Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Well, as much as I like JBL products, I'm forced to admit that the grilles on the Venue Series are not my cup of tea. If I had a set, I'd take them off and leave them off.

Trying to paint them will likely result in unhappiness. They won't paint easily, and you'll have to watch for runs that clog the pores and make the covering too dense. Also, the paint will be brittle on that surface and flake, fall off , or scrape off easily, especially if you have cats or kids. Then you'll have really ugly grilles: black with uneven bits of silver here and there. Plus the denser you make the covering, the more it'll impede the sound.

Sorry to say it, but if you don't like them, your options are few: remove them, or make your own.

Great advice file, a very complete and convincing piece of advice! That's why this forum is so good. Sometimes other peoples ideas and view of things just hit home. Eugo had a similar message but he made me chuckle when suggested that I sell them to a friend. But as for timbre matching, this where it gets interesting. Before I start talkin timber I would like to mention my situation. I've been collecting my new equipment for about a month. It is now complete since friday. Everything is still in boxes sort of hidden in the basement. The Dish guys are supposed to be here tomorow between 8 to 4 for HD. So I will try to get everthing hooked up and the old setup moved upstairs. It's all pretty much pedestrian equipment so no pictures but I'm still excited to open all my new boxes! Here is what I got: The ubiquitous Onkyo 605, Toshiba 37" 720p tv, Toshiba dvd recorder. As for the speakers, this is where I had the most trouble deciding what I wanted and may have made some minor mistakes along the way. Before I even got to listen to anything I had it in my mind that I wanted to go strictly with Boston Acoustics because in the early 80's I had a pair of their bookcase speakers that I thought were just awesome. So I listened to the little 8" XB2 sub and it sounded way way way better than my 100$ sony sounds like a lumber jack fartin in a cold mud puddle sub that I thought I was sold on that brand and also bought the Boston VRCB center with the intention to also get a pair Boston VR2 towers. But after auditioning them at cc I felt like they were way to bright, with the volume up they were screaming, in a good way I guess but I want my mains to sound like Boston bookshelves did a long time ago. So I went with the JBL stadiums for my mains and they also cost quite a bit less than I planned to spend on mains. My limit was not more than 600 out the door or delivered and I only spent half that on the Stadiums. Mistake? Maybe. But paired up with a Boston center? From what I gather from all this timbre talk, very likely a mistake, but for now I will try it, I'm going to shut my eyes, take in all the sound and then decide. For the rears another timbre mis-match, I'm just going to use the Polks that are already mounted in the ceiling. So if I don't post for a few days that means an audio-visual success! Thank you all for your input. If I hadn't found this forum I would have bought everthing from BB, CC, or HH but I got almost everthing online for a lot less. Thanks again!
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post #570 of 15431 Old 09-24-2007, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by plnorris View Post

Great advice file, a very complete and convincing piece of advice! That's why this forum is so good. Sometimes other peoples ideas and view of things just hit home. Eugo had a similar message but he made me chuckle when suggested that I sell them to a friend. But as for timbre matching, this where it gets interesting. Before I start talkin timber I would like to mention my situation. I've been collecting my new equipment for about a month. It is now complete since friday. Everything is still in boxes sort of hidden in the basement. The Dish guys are supposed to be here tomorow between 8 to 4 for HD. So I will try to get everthing hooked up and the old setup moved upstairs. It's all pretty much pedestrian equipment so no pictures but I'm still excited to open all my new boxes! Here is what I got: The ubiquitous Onkyo 605, Toshiba 37" 720p tv, Toshiba dvd recorder. As for the speakers, this is where I had the most trouble deciding what I wanted and may have made some minor mistakes along the way. Before I even got to listen to anything I had it in my mind that I wanted to go strictly with Boston Acoustics because in the early 80's I had a pair of their bookcase speakers that I thought were just awesome. So I listened to the little 8" XB2 sub and it sounded way way way better than my 100$ sony sounds like a lumber jack fartin in a cold mud puddle sub that I thought I was sold on that brand and also bought the Boston VRCB center with the intention to also get a pair Boston VR2 towers. But after auditioning them at cc I felt like they were way to bright, with the volume up they were screaming, in a good way I guess but I want my mains to sound like Boston bookshelves did a long time ago. So I went with the JBL stadiums for my mains and they also cost quite a bit less than I planned to spend on mains. My limit was not more than 600 out the door or delivered and I only spent half that on the Stadiums. Mistake? Maybe. But paired up with a Boston center? From what I gather from all this timbre talk, very likely a mistake, but for now I will try it, I'm going to shut my eyes, take in all the sound and then decide. For the rears another timbre mis-match, I'm just going to use the Polks that are already mounted in the ceiling. So if I don't post for a few days that means an audio-visual success! Thank you all for your input. If I hadn't found this forum I would have bought everthing from BB, CC, or HH but I got almost everthing online for a lot less. Thanks again!

Let me see if I got this straight. You have JBL Stadiums for LR, Boston Acoustics for C and ceiling mounted Polks for your Surrounds. Definitly come back and let us know how it all sounds.

Funny how you think the VR2 is too bright. I auditioned them and thought they had a rich sound, at least richer than the Polk Monitor 50 I was comparing them to.
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