The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 15317 Old 07-16-2007, 09:31 AM
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Um... Past buying a replacement parts super tweeter and crossover from a L890 and some how hack it into the E90 to make it into a L890, probably not much you can do.


Oh, and I just got my EC35 in today and MY GOSH ! It sounds so much better then the EC25 in the midrange. As soon as I hit the TV button on the Harmony I was greeted with the type of vocals that I'd been missing from some documentary on the HD national geographic channel. It just sounded, well, right!

I think I need to go grab a speaker switch and do a A-B comparison to give a full review, but that odd sound that had been bothering me for so long is gone.
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post #92 of 15317 Old 07-17-2007, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam61HD View Post

So..if I don't bi-wire, I assume I leave the metal connector between the two post?

Well from everything I've read, if you dont bi-wire they still recommend you dont use those bars. They recommend using speaker wire jumpers between the sets of terminals.
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post #93 of 15317 Old 07-17-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd nOOb View Post

I upgraded to Cinema Sound Series 2



2 Floorstanding CST55 Tower Speakers 150W

I will get 2 more for the rear. I really like them they sound nice and crisp.

But... after coming here I might get the L880's and put them in the front and the CST55's in the rear. Does this seem right?
Would I have to get the L series center as well to go with the L880's?

Is the L880 that much of a sound difference than what I have?
I don't want to over play the sub if I am making my self clear.

Thanks

Well its very important to have your front stage speakers timbre matched or as close as possible so you cant tell when it jumps from one speaker to another. So if I were you I would get the L series center to use with L series mains.
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post #94 of 15317 Old 07-17-2007, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFyre22 View Post

Well from everything I've read, if you dont bi-wire they still recommend you dont use those bars. They recommend using speaker wire jumpers between the sets of terminals.

What?!? I've never heard of that. Why would "they" say that? Why would they put the jumper bars in there if they don't work... well? Would you mind giving your source of info regarding this method?

~Dave

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post #95 of 15317 Old 07-17-2007, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

What?!? I've never heard of that. Why would "they" say that? Why would they put the jumper bars in there if they don't work... well? Would you mind giving your source of info regarding this method?

The jumper bars are easier for the manufacturers to manufacture, store, sort, inventory, and install. The common problems include weak or intermittent connections, uneven plating, and increased impedance over time due to corrosion or patina.

But aren't they gold-plated? Well, okay, sure...

I don't always replace the stamped metal jumpers with wire, but I usually do if I'm setting up a long-term system. Properly measured, stripped, and installed, the wire connection is always secure, predictable, and durable.

I have a pair of wonderful JBL XPL200 speakers that needed serious rehab when I picked them up. After cabinet restoration, network fix up, replacement of a damaged Ti driver and refoams on the woofers, when it was all together, there was no woofer output on one speaker.

Dang! Was it a network problem? Internal wiring mistake? Bad voice coil? (I had scoped the speakers before intalling them.) Hmm. No, it turned out that the stock jumper wouldn't pass a signal, even when very tightly installed. I quickly made a pair of wire jumpers and installed them.

They've worked reliably ever since.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #96 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 06:35 AM
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Very interesting comments Filecat,


by coincidence I have a similar problem with one E-50, as the midrange is not playing at all. I swapped the mids and both are ok, so I tought it could be the xo network though. I'll remove the jumpers and put a wire instead; maybe I'll be the lucky one, who knows?? Shall keep you posted on that.

Regards, Chuck

Regards, Chuck
Hold on tight to your dreams - ELO
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post #97 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

The jumper bars are easier for the manufacturers to manufacture, store, sort, inventory, and install. The common problems include weak or intermittent connections, uneven plating, and increased impedance over time due to corrosion or patina.

But aren't they gold-plated? Well, okay, sure...

I don't always replace the stamped metal jumpers with wire, but I usually do if I'm setting up a long-term system. Properly measured, stripped, and installed, the wire connection is always secure, predictable, and durable.

I have a pair of wonderful JBL XPL200 speakers that needed serious rehab when I picked them up. After cabinet restoration, network fix up, replacement of a damaged Ti driver and refoams on the woofers, when it was all together, there was no woofer output on one speaker.

Dang! Was it a network problem? Internal wiring mistake? Bad voice coil? (I had scoped the speakers before intalling them.) Hmm. No, it turned out that the stock jumper wouldn't pass a signal, even when very tightly installed. I quickly made a pair of wire jumpers and installed them.

They've worked reliably ever since.

Thanks for the comments. Interesting. I have a plethora of JBL speakers that I haven't had any problems with the jumper bars so far. Included are the E30s, E50s, E80s, E100s, and EC35s. At least if I do develop some problems, I'll know that using the jumpers may be a solution.

~Dave

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JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #98 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 06:41 AM
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Does anyone know where to purchase HT Synthesis speakers online? The only place I have found seems a bit dubious (Audiophile Liquidators).

I am looking for HT4s and HT5s.

Thank you.
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post #99 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Thanks for the comments. Interesting. I have a plethora of JBL speakers that I haven't had any problems with the jumper bars so far. Included are the E30s, E50s, E80s, E100s, and EC35s. At least if I do develop some problems, I'll know that using the jumpers may be a solution.

Interestingly, I bought a pair of E50s NIB with the intention of simply playing them "as is" in one of the spare systems in the garage. I couldn't get constant sound from the right speaker. Either the HF would not work of the LF would not work, depending on which terminal I attached the speaker wire to.

It turns out the strap on the + side just wouldn't make reliable contact. When I swapped it with a wire jumper, the problem disappeared. The E50 is a good example of a speaker that doesn't need bi-amp capability IMO. In this case, the extra terminals are unnecessary complications.

So now I'm using three of the OEM straps and one wire jumper. I do like my E50s though.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #100 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Thanks for the comments. Interesting. I have a plethora of JBL speakers that I haven't had any problems with the jumper bars so far. Included are the E30s, E50s, E80s, E100s, and EC35s. At least if I do develop some problems, I'll know that using the jumpers may be a solution.

How would you compare the E80's vs the E100's?
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post #101 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 09:00 AM
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Well the E80s have 6" woofers and the E100s have 10" woofers. That is of course the majority of the difference. The E100s will shake your house apart. If you don't care about ultra-low LFE, then you don't need a subwoofer when using the E100s in a home theater setup. The imaging of the E100s are amazing.

I remember just a couple of months ago I was listening to a cd through the E100s and went to sit down on my couch. After listening for a few seconds I reached for the remote to turn the output back to stereo, because somehow it must have gotten switched to ProLogic or something somehow since the center channel was on. After a minute I figured out that I was wrong, the center channel was not on. The imaging from the speakers was so good that the sound engulfed the whole area creating the illusion that the center channel was outputting sound. Incredible!

As for the E80s, I really haven't had a chance to play with them much. I obtained a pair of them very cheap and one of them has the dust caps pushed in on all the woofers. So I'm looking into repairing the speaker so I can put them with my flat panel in my living room along with another EC35 that I have. I did test the "good" E80 and it sounds pretty good. Nice full sound and they're kind-of a nice compact tower speaker, at least compared to the E100s... <-they're pretty huge in stature and in sound.

~Dave

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post #102 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 10:57 AM
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Well, I blitzed thru the threads, and I got rid of my ex not the JBL's. My 2nd wife loves them, and after 35 years, they sound as good as the day the were bought;
Front 4312 (walnut) x 2
Side Surround: L36 (walnut) x 2
Rear Surround: L100A (walnut) x 2
Rear Surround 2 L26 (walnut) x 2
Center:Pair L26 (walnut)
Sub : 2 Miller & Kreisel MX 350 (walnut)
Denon AVR-5805CI: A/V Surround Receiver

Its old school, its wide field, and they blow away any of the newer stuff JBL sells today. The only trick is replacing the surrounds as needed; and re-centering the voice coils (as you re-do the surrounds).

Its a trick but once you've done it easy to re-do; & worth every dime you save to keep all your old speakers in A1 shape. That and refinishing them with various sandpaper grits, and finally Watco danish oil, to restain them and make them look like new! They look superb.

You cant buy a better set of speakers for less than 12 to 14K; and I think I've got all of 1800 to 2000 in them over the last 30 years.
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post #103 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 08:24 PM
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with a pair of JBL Northrige E90's, LC1 center cannel, and L820's as my rears
will my reciever Yamaha RXV 661 at 90w per channel give me enough power for these? and would i be better off getting a more powerfull reciever?
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post #104 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgvenable View Post

Well, I blitzed thru the threads, and I got rid of my ex not the JBL's. My 2nd wife loves them, and after 35 years, they sound as good as the day the were bought;
Front 4312 (walnut) x 2
Side Surround: L36 (walnut) x 2
Rear Surround: L100A (walnut) x 2
Rear Surround 2 L26 (walnut) x 2
Center:Pair L26 (walnut)
Sub : 2 Miller & Kreisel MX 350 (walnut)
Denon AVR-5805CI: A/V Surround Receiver

Its old school, its wide field, and they blow away any of the newer stuff JBL sells today. The only trick is replacing the surrounds as needed; and re-centering the voice coils (as you re-do the surrounds).

Its a trick but once you've done it easy to re-do; & worth every dime you save to keep all your old speakers in A1 shape. That and refinishing them with various sandpaper grits, and finally Watco danish oil, to restain them and make them look like new! They look superb.

You cant buy a better set of speakers for less than 12 to 14K; and I think I've got all of 1800 to 2000 in them over the last 30 years.

Amen! Nice setup of some classics!

MARGARITAS,
they're not just for breakfast anymore.
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post #105 of 15317 Old 07-18-2007, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn2166 View Post

with a pair of JBL Northrige E90's, LC1 center cannel, and L820's as my rears
will my reciever Yamaha RXV 661 at 90w per channel give me enough power for these? and would i be better off getting a more powerfull reciever?

Your RX-V661 will work beautifully with those JBL's. They're reasonably efficient speakers.

MARGARITAS,
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post #106 of 15317 Old 07-19-2007, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

What?!? I've never heard of that. Why would "they" say that? Why would they put the jumper bars in there if they don't work... well? Would you mind giving your source of info regarding this method?

I cant paste you exact links, but in various different threads i've read in this forum and others there are always posts saying to not use the bus bars and use a piece of speaker wire instead..... Maybe they are wrong, I dont know, but it seemed to be a fairly common recomemndation.
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post #107 of 15317 Old 07-20-2007, 11:27 AM
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any opinions on the JBL Venue Stadium floorstanders and Voice cc? Good price on them online...
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post #108 of 15317 Old 07-20-2007, 05:38 PM
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Hi everyone,

I'll join the discussion as a proud owner of a 3.1 JBL Northridge E Series system. Front R/L are the JBL E30CH, center is an EC35CH, and the sub a JBL E250PCH. Very pleased for the price. . .I picked all of these up new and very cheap, starting with the JBL E30CH a couple years ago, and I found the sub and center earlier this year in limited quanities. SACD/DVD-A/DTS-CD all sound excellent if the mastering/mix is up to the challenge and the 250 provides tight powerful bass for my 15x18 room.

Now that I'm accumulating a respectable high-res collection, I'm very anxious to move the E30CHs back to the rear and pick up some E80CHs. I wish I could have gotten into this sooner when they were in stock, but now I'm stuck with e-bay, Craig's List, H-K Online, and some potentially shady internet retailers. The Cherry color is the hard part, but it's required.

Shopsunshine.com is advertising the E80CHs as being in stock for the same price as Etronics.com. Shopsunshine definitely has some bad reviews and seems shady at best. Etronics was my savior last time with the sub and center, and they are claiming they are trying to seek out more E80CHs. I'm beyond caring about warranty support.

Beyond that, if anyone has any opinions about Shopsunshine or other ways to land these speakers, I'd appreciate it!

Best,
Josh

End LOUDNESS in Music; Fight for High-Resolution Surround Sound: Buy DVD-A/SACD!

Find me at: Last.fm and SA-CD.net
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post #109 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 12:10 AM
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I've seen some Northridge CH models being sold online for above new cost in used condition. They seem to already be collectors items.
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post #110 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 12:21 AM
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Yeah, the CH versions are a HUGE pain to find due to them looking just so much better then the other finishes. If you look back in this thread a bit you can see my pains in finding a EC35Ch (found it with the help of you guys, love it!).

One thing to look at is considering the E60CH and the E90CH along with the E80 in your searches. The E90 will be a little better, and the E60 a little worse, but give you higher odds of finding one.
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post #111 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgvenable View Post

Well, I blitzed thru the threads, and I got rid of my ex not the JBL's. My 2nd wife loves them, and after 35 years, they sound as good as the day the were bought;
Front 4312 (walnut) x 2
Side Surround: L36 (walnut) x 2
Rear Surround: L100A (walnut) x 2
Rear Surround 2 L26 (walnut) x 2
Center:Pair L26 (walnut)
Sub : 2 Miller & Kreisel MX 350 (walnut)
Denon AVR-5805CI: A/V Surround Receiver

That's a nice complement of vintage gear. It's a great collection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgvenable View Post

Its old school, its wide field, and they blow away any of the newer stuff JBL sells today..

If you added IMO, I would say okay, but as is, I would have to disagree. Even the entry level JBL gear these days has many improvements over these old models as well as some things that are not improvements.

The older gear will have real veneer on the cabinets and better looking drivers. The woofers will be better built and the midranges will be overbuilt. The older gear will be voiced with a pronounced midbass hump and forward midrange, the "JBL sound."

The newer gear has imitation wood surfaces and IMO less attractive drivers. The tweeters are far superiior to anything from the consumer models of the 70s, and the woofers and midranges are also advanced in many ways but compromised in others, such as stamped frames. The networks are far better today, and the cabinet geometry, tuning, and porting are more precise. The voicing is quite different from the older stuff, and a vintage guy generally won't like it.

It is possible to like both, of course.

I have L100s, L250s, L7s, SVA2100s, and the current Performance Series among many others, and I enoy them all. However, I paid far less than you'd think for a 7.1 Performance Series system, and it will IMO humble any of the other JBLs I have by a wide margin.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #112 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

That's a nice complement of vintage gear. It's a great collection.



If you added IMO, I would say okay, but as is, I would have to disagree. Even the entry level JBL gear these days has many improvements over these old models as well as some things that are not improvements.

The older gear will have real veneer on the cabinets and better looking drivers. The woofers will be better built and the midranges will be overbuilt. The older gear will be voiced with a pronounced midbass hump and forward midrange, the "JBL sound."

The newer gear has imitation wood surfaces and IMO less attractive drivers. The tweeters are far superiior to anything from the consumer models of the 70s, and the woofers and midranges are also advanced in many ways but compromised in others, such as stamped frames. The networks are far better today, and the cabinet geometry, tuning, and porting are more precise. The voicing is quite different from the older stuff, and a vintage guy generally won't like it.

It is possible to like both, of course.

I have L100s, L250s, L7s, SVA2100s, and the current Performance Series among many others, and I enoy them all. However, I paid far less than you'd think for a 7.1 Performance Series system, and it will IMO humble any of the other JBLs I have by a wide margin.

Filecat13,

Though I've listened to and owned many JBL models, I've not heard any of the P-Series. Would you please compare and contrast their sound with other JBL's you have or had at hand? Thanks.

MARGARITAS,
they're not just for breakfast anymore.
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post #113 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utcpyro View Post

Yeah, the CH versions are a HUGE pain to find due to them looking just so much better then the other finishes. If you look back in this thread a bit you can see my pains in finding a EC35Ch (found it with the help of you guys, love it!).

One thing to look at is considering the E60CH and the E90CH along with the E80 in your searches. The E90 will be a little better, and the E60 a little worse, but give you higher odds of finding one.

Thanks for responding. . .yes I'm definitely keeping the E90CH in my search, as well as the E60CH, but not so much.

The search goes on!
Josh

End LOUDNESS in Music; Fight for High-Resolution Surround Sound: Buy DVD-A/SACD!

Find me at: Last.fm and SA-CD.net
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post #114 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 04:57 PM
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This site has the E90 and other Northridge series speakers for sale:

http://www.garrett-smarthome.com/pro...?prod=JBE90%A0

Good listening, Bill
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post #115 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 05:25 PM
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WOW! Those are pretty expensive prices.

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JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
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post #116 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

Filecat13,

Though I've listened to and owned many JBL models, I've not heard any of the P-Series. Would you please compare and contrast their sound with other JBL's you have or had at hand? Thanks.

On the Lansing Heritage site (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/) I did some of this with top JBL four-ways, and I'll reproduce it here. I compared the legendary L250 (1980s) to the XPL200 (early '90), L7 (mid-late '90s) and later the Performance Series stack (2000s).

Quote:


Comparing and contrasting the four-ways I have in the dungeon/shop/garage illustrates why I like so many different speakers. None is perfect because there is no perfect sound, except perhaps the original performance...maybe.

L250: It's a beautiful, smooth, balanced speaker with prodigious output. It's weak in the highs by my standards, and the midrange is a bit "tight" and breathless compared to the others. The midbass and woofer are just about perfectly matched, and they are powerful performers.

XPL200: Due to personal preference, the Ti tweeter and midrange sound the best to me. They're open, spacious, articulate, and alive. Their clarity is unparalleled in this group (but the Performance Series will beat them.) Sadly, the midbass is an underachiever and disappoints, while the 12" woofer is an agile performer whose output is quite adequate if not outstanding.

L7: The tweeter is very nice of course, and the midrange is full and front, though the XPL's combo is better. The midbass is just as nice sounding as the L250's and the woofer is every bit as strong as the L250's with the added benefit of covering a narrower frequency band. It is articulate, sharp, and controlled; yet it can really kick out the bass when called upon.

In most rooms, the XPL200 will be a good performer, easily sounding better than the other two in many installations.

The L250 will win in any larger environment. By its very physical appearance it will command the space, and the sound will live up to the appearance. It can create an awesome presence, even today. It will gag in a small environment, strangled to death by the room's choke hold.

The L7 in the right room and set up correctly will knock either of these two out of the house. However, it will take more time and effort to achieve this, and if you're just going to compromise and make them go where they look the best to keep the peace, then don't bother.

Asked to add the Performance Series to the equation:

Quote:


Unfortunately, I've not had them in the same room running the same gear, so I can only give a comparison based on indirect evidence. As you know, this process is rife with all kinds of problems.

Anyway, my impression is that the Performance Series stack has most of the positives and few of the negatives of the other four-ways discussed here. It has the open, spacious, articulate clarity of the highs and mids of the XPL200, with a little less brightness. It has the powerful midbass of the L250 and L7. It compares favorably to the bass of the L250, with the LE14H-3 outperforming its sibling in its modern iteration. It beats the XPL200's bass, and is as nimble as the L7's, but not quite as much of a full impact at the low end as the LE120H-1 provides when the L7s are properly set up and the woofers are working together. OTOH, my recent addition of the HTPS400 handily remedied this slight deficit.

Looking just at the L7 and the PS stack, I'd line it up this way. The 035TIA is technically a better tweeter, and the 704G and 708G-1 composite drivers are very good, but the PT800's Ti trio really has so much better uniformity of sound that it's far more appealing to me. From 130Hz to 22kHz, the sound is very much the sameand it's a sound I love.

The cabinets are quite different, the L7 being narrower

I really dig the LE14H-3 and think it's one of the best, but I suppose it's inhibited a bit by the PS1400 enclosure. The LE120H-1 seems ideally set in the L7 cabinet, and, again, the side-firing reinforcement is a sonic blessing (OR a huge, irritating, evil curse if set up wrong).

The PS stack is the winner to my ears, but not by that much. If you consider L7s have gone for as low as $250 a pair, the value equation turns upside down. As a stereo pair, the L7 gives up very little, and gives a bit back, too.

If I could only have one pair for stereo, L7s or PS stacks... hmmm.

In a HT environment, PS all the way.

Hope this answers well enough.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #117 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 09:00 PM
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I'm using JBL SCS300.5's for my surrounds and
a JBL 10" Balboa sub with my Pioneer VSX Reciever.

My setup is great considering I managed to somehow
put the system together for about $300.

Speakers were all new, and the reciever was lightly used.

I'm looking to upgrade my front L+R to a large bookshelf or
floorstander and get an HDMI 7.1 reciever.

Anybody have any suggestions that would with the speakers
I've got now?
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post #118 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 09:27 PM
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The JBL Cinema Sound CSB5 looks like the next logical step up, with a similar 3/4" Ti laminate tweeter, a 5" woofer, 88db sensitivity, and 8 Ohm load. 60Hz to 30kHz. However at $399 retail per pair, it'll double the cost of your system.

A pair of Venue Series "Monitor" speakers only cost $199 a pair with a 3/4" Ti tweeter, 5" Poluyplas woofer, 86db sensitivity, and 8 Ohm load. 68Hz to 20kHz.

The SCS300.5 satellites have a 1/2" Ti laminate tweeter, two 3" woofers, 88dB sensitivity, and 8 Ohm load. 100Hz-20kHz. So either of the above bookshelf speakers will improve your front soundstage and integrate better with your 10" sub.

If you get anything much more potent, then you'll need to replace your center as well, as the SCS300.5 center will be overwhelmed. You could probably go with Venue Series "Arenas," too, but if you get to the Stage or Stadium models, then you'll definitley need to replace your center.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #119 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 09:56 PM
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Yeah, the venue series does seem like the logical choice.
I don't mind spending a little bit.

The current setup was a self challenge to be more patient
and find awesome deals on good stuff, so I could prove to
myself and the people around me that there are MANY MANY
alternatives to stores like Best Buy and Circuit City.

I just want to show others that life is better when you aren't
being spoonfed tech, and that thinking for yourself and doing
research if always better.
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post #120 of 15317 Old 07-21-2007, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Hope this answers well enough.

Very well considered and presented filecat13. It was very informative, articulate, and is appreciated. You obviously well know and appreciate these JBL pieces of acoustic presence and value.

My own experience and enjoyment resides with the L100's, Studio Series, J, E, and N Series varieties. I guess if one grows up on a sound, it's difficult to leave it.

MARGARITAS,
they're not just for breakfast anymore.
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