The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 517 - AVS Forum
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post #15481 of 15509 Old 10-21-2014, 04:42 PM
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I have a question about timbre matching JBL speakers. Currently, I have S312IIs and a S Center II up front with S36IIs for sides and rears. All of these speakers are from the same line and matched. If I upgraded to the performance series PC600 Center, would the timbre still match? Reading the specs of the speakers, they seems to use a lot of key words in them that make me think they would blend ok with each other. let me know if you guys have heard the difference between the old Studio line and the Performance line and if you think it would work.




PC600 description:
This 3-way, dual 6-inch center speaker reproduces sound with incredible power, while preserving the clarity and detail of the original recording.

Pure-titanium, high-frequency-transducer domes with neodymium magnet structures are ultralight to accurately reproduce lightning-fast sounds like cymbal crashes, yet extremely rigid to eliminate distortion and ear fatigue in the transition between the midrange and high-frequency bands.

Elliptical Oblate Spheroidal™ (EOS) waveguides were first developed for our JBL Professional LSR studio monitors. They enable Performance Series speakers to evenly disperse high frequencies and create precise stereo imaging over a wide listening area.

Pure-titanium, inverted dome midrange transducers seamlessly blend with the titanium dome tweeters by offering nearly perfect pistonic motion that eliminates uncontrollable flexing found in conventional cones. The inverted dome is driven precisely at its center, which cancels resonances inherent in cone materials. The result is ruler-flat frequency response well beyond the crossover point.

Titanium-alloy, inverted dome low-frequency transducers deliver precise, undistorted bass reproduction that matches the titanium tweeters and midranges. The powerful neodymium magnet provides its own video-shielding, allowing flexible placement, even near video monitors. Cast-aluminum frames remain rigid even at the highest volumes, avoiding distortion found in some other speaker designs. And aluminum doesn't affect the magnetic flux, so that driver movement is precise and unmuddied.


S Center II description:
The amazing 3-way S-Center ii brings dialogue and sound effects to life with outstanding clarity and realism, thanks to pro-style JBL technology! A 1" titanium tweeter and 4" PolyPlas midrange are mounted on an LFP (Linear Field Proximity) bezel for precise localization — on-screen sounds are firmly anchored in place. Two 5-1/2" PolyPlas woofers and rear-firing ports provide ample sonic depth. The molded poly cabinet, with graceful curves and dark gray finish, looks right at home on top of your TV
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post #15482 of 15509 Old 10-21-2014, 05:30 PM
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A quick poll..
Do Studio L owners toe in their speakers, or leave them straight firing?
I've read different views on this....
Is there a definite right or wrong way for placement.
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post #15483 of 15509 Old 10-21-2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JESSIE DART View Post
A quick poll..
Do Studio L owners toe in their speakers, or leave them straight firing?
I've read different views on this....
Is there a definite right or wrong way for placement.
It's pretty dependent on each and every setup. There is no right or wrong answer. Some speakers respond better to some toe in more than others, but it's still a setup related thing.

There are some speakers that are specifically meant to fire straight ahead, my DCM Time Windows come to mind, but most speakers aren't that way.

Last edited by 89grand; 10-21-2014 at 08:21 PM. Reason: spelling
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post #15484 of 15509 Old 10-21-2014, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoZ View Post
I have a question about timbre matching JBL speakers. Currently, I have S312IIs and a S Center II up front with S36IIs for sides and rears. All of these speakers are from the same line and matched. If I upgraded to the performance series PC600 Center, would the timbre still match? Reading the specs of the speakers, they seems to use a lot of key words in them that make me think they would blend ok with each other. let me know if you guys have heard the difference between the old Studio line and the Performance line and if you think it would work.
The PC600 is a formidable speaker, center or otherwise. But I'd suggest that you leave well enough alone since you already have a good match.
I'd add that if you get one PS speaker, you'll be hard pressed to think about anything else but getting more. I can't think of a really good match for your S312 other than the S-Center, but if pressed you might look into an LC2. The S-Center has a bit of a "plastic box" sound to it, which you might avoid with the LC2 or even an EC35.
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post #15485 of 15509 Old 10-22-2014, 08:53 AM
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@Gooddoc

Do you know if it is absolutely necessary to buy the Crown or Mark Levinson amps with the M2s? My question really is, is the DSP used for the active crossover only? Or are there filters included that flatten the anechoic response?

If it's the former there's no reason why one couldn't just use a minidsp to do the crossover and use whatever amp is desired. If it's the latter it's probably worth buying the amps since JBL has access to the full anechoic measurements.

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
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post #15486 of 15509 Old 10-22-2014, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post
@Gooddoc

Do you know if it is absolutely necessary to buy the Crown or Mark Levinson amps with the M2s? My question really is, is the DSP used for the active crossover only? Or are there filters included that flatten the anechoic response?

If it's the former there's no reason why one couldn't just use a minidsp to do the crossover and use whatever amp is desired. If it's the latter it's probably worth buying the amps since JBL has access to the full anechoic measurements.
It's more than just crossovers. There are other filters in there.

But you don't need to buy any special amps, so long as they deliver sufficient power. But you do need the BSS processor at a minimum, it's just convenient that it's built into the Crown amps.

But I may be sending the Crowns back and getting a BSS processor and just use my LG10000Q amp to drive the M2's. I've got some hiss in the CD with the Crowns and I'm not liking that I have to reduce input voltage and gains to reduce it to acceptable levels. Input clipping is a concern at high volumes. But I'm waiting on my new prepro and I'll see how high the output on that can be driven before making a decision.

I've been told by JBL that the Crown amps are the most transparent with the active crossovers and filters, so I don't want to ditch them unless I have to.
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post #15487 of 15509 Old 10-22-2014, 07:58 PM
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Thanks. So many setup options to consider.

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
Living room: Panasonic TC-P60VT60, 3 KEF LS50, Pioneer SW-8, Marantz NR1603
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post #15488 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 04:00 AM
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Thanks. So many setup options to consider.
Are you considering the M2's for purchase?
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post #15489 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 06:22 AM
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Yeah I'm gonna get them. Just rustling up the money now.
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post #15490 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 06:51 AM
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Yeah I'm gonna get them. Just rustling up the money now.
Have you heard them yet, or is this a blind purchase?
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post #15491 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 07:07 AM
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Have you heard them yet, or is this a blind purchase?
Blind, but I've heard enough wide dispersion, constant directivity speakers to know that's the sound I'm after. I just need the output to back it up.
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post #15492 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
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Blind, but I've heard enough wide dispersion, constant directivity speakers to know that's the sound I'm after. I just need the output to back it up.
Wow, you're bold man! I like that . But don't you think you should listen first . They are, after all, just step above "budget" speakers from a cost perspective, hehe. If you're anywhere close to New Jersey, you're welcome to audition them at my place. But if not, I'm sure there's other places near you that have them for audition, no?
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post #15493 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 09:18 AM
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Wow, you're bold man! I like that . But don't you think you should listen first . They are, after all, just step above "budget" speakers from a cost perspective, hehe. If you're anywhere close to New Jersey, you're welcome to audition them at my place. But if not, I'm sure there's other places near you that have them for audition, no?
Not that I'm aware of. I'm in Tennessee. Thanks for the offer.

I'm a little tempted to wait for more information on the LSR708i before I make the decision. If they perform at all close to the M2s (which I doubt) then 11 of them for a 7.1.4 might be indicated.

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
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post #15494 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 09:50 AM
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Not that I'm aware of. I'm in Tennessee. Thanks for the offer.

I'm a little tempted to wait for more information on the LSR708i before I make the decision. If they perform at all close to the M2s (which I doubt) then 11 of them for a 7.1.4 might be indicated.
SQ at lower volumes will, I hope, be incredibly close. I am getting the 700's for surrounds to complement my M2's. But the 700's are not full range which puts them in another class of speaker right off the bat as to performance. The will fall away from the M2's quickly as volume is raised. So yea, nice for surrounds, but designed for an entirely different purpose than the M2's.

You couldn't pay me to take the M2's out of my room .
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post #15495 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 11:22 AM
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I would never run my system without multiple subwoofers, so a speaker's low bass response is about as important to me as my TV's infrared response.

It's interesting that they aren't including sensitivity in the specs for the 7 series. Maybe that will change as they get closer to release. Or maybe we will have to ask them for it along with the frequency response plots.

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
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post #15496 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post
I would never run my system without multiple subwoofers, so a speaker's low bass response is about as important to me as my TV's infrared response.

It's interesting that they aren't including sensitivity in the specs for the 7 series. Maybe that will change as they get closer to release. Or maybe we will have to ask them for it along with the frequency response plots.
Yeah, everyone has there own preferences. But if you get the M2's you might want to give two channel a try without your subs
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post #15497 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 01:18 PM
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Yeah, everyone has there own preferences. But if you get the M2's you might want to give two channel a try without your subs
No subs needed with the 215's, that is for sure.
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post #15498 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM
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No subs needed with the 215's, that is for sure.
I think it's probably a distributed bass philosophy thing, not an output thing. I used to feel the same way. But after experiencing the cohesiveness of a full range I've tempered my opinion on that a bit
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post #15499 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM
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Yeah, everyone has there own preferences. But if you get the M2's you might want to give two channel a try without your subs
I think what I might do is have two equalization profiles. One will be a 6 point average of the main listening position with no subs active for solo music listening. The other will be a more distributed average with multiple subwoofers for shared enjoyment of the system.

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post #15500 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 04:56 PM
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I think what I might do is have two equalization profiles. One will be a 6 point average of the main listening position with no subs active for solo music listening. The other will be a more distributed average with multiple subwoofers for shared enjoyment of the system.
That sounds like a good plan
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post #15501 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 05:42 PM
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It's more than just crossovers. There are other filters in there.
Hi Gooddoc,

I've been reading thru the M2 info on JBL's website, trying to understand what exactly the electronics is doing. As far as I have been able to determine, it implements the crossovers and can be used for room correction but there is no mention of otherwise modifying the anechoic response. I'm not saying it doesn't do the latter but their documentation does not mention it... Is this your understanding as well?
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post #15502 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM
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I think it's probably a distributed bass philosophy thing, not an output thing. I used to feel the same way. But after experiencing the cohesiveness of a full range I've tempered my opinion on that a bit
I am enjoying using mine a little flat and tighter. I was running them in 2 channel with heavy bass, but then I toned them down and found I really like them a little flatter. Don't get me wrong, the bass is still heavy, the things have the equivalent of a Captivator in each speaker, but I think I have dialed them in to my liking with less bass. I built 8 panels and hung them yesterday which have help tremendously.
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post #15503 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM
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Hi Gooddoc,

I've been reading thru the M2 info on JBL's website, trying to understand what exactly the electronics is doing. As far as I have been able to determine, it implements the crossovers and can be used for room correction but there is no mention of otherwise modifying the anechoic response. I'm not saying it doesn't do the latter but their documentation does not mention it... Is this your understanding as well?
There are output EQ filters that are locked and inaccessible. I believe those are the FIR crossover filters. There are also locked and inaccessible driver delay settings.

Then there are parametric filters preloaded that ARE accessible. These filters are likely anechoic based filters and are as follows:

500Hz, 1.1dB gain, 5.260 Q
900Hz, 1.6dB gain, 4.380 Q
1.15kHz, 1.4dB gain, 7.430 Q
1.6kHz, -0.9dB gain, 3.130 Q
2.54kHz, -1.1dB gain, 9.720 Q
3.25kHz, 1.3dB gain, 7.070 Q


The accessible parametric filters that overlap with my own room tuning parametric filters I have disabled. I only correct up to a Q centered at 500Hz. I don't correct above that.
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post #15504 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I am enjoying using mine a little flat and tighter. I was running them in 2 channel with heavy bass, but then I toned them down and found I really like them a little flatter. Don't get me wrong, the bass is still heavy, the things have the equivalent of a Captivator in each speaker, but I think I have dialed them in to my liking with less bass. I built 8 panels and hung them yesterday which have help tremendously.
Not sure what "a little flat" means and I'm hesitant to assume anything since I know the crazy bass curves you guys run with.

I put in bass traps in all corners floor to ceiling and 8 wall panels. I wish I could say it was night and day, but it wasn't. It's better, no doubt, and more so with the bass. But the way treatments are talked about around here as equivalent to a speaker upgrade, I expected much more. Definitely not equivalent to a speaker upgrade, but I guess the specific speaker and how bad the room is to start with has a lot to do with it.
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post #15505 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 08:37 PM
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There are much more sophisticated methods to tuning a room with treatments than to just throw in a bunch of traps and panels and hope for the best.
Proper measurements need taken and the acoustic materials placed in very specific places to combat very specific room nodes, reverb, etc...
Many times the placement of those items doesn't quite work to be the most pleasing to the eyes, but it is pleasing to the ears when done properly.
Ideally, you would need to build a specific type room from scratch to get the very best sound, with the secondary room treatments being the next best option.
Many people have chosen to just go the route of using digital audio and auto-room-correction devices such as Audyssey to correct the issues in their rooms.
I think given the right circumstances, both digital and analog audio can sound superb in most situations, it just depends on the specific setup.


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post #15506 of 15509 Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
There are output EQ filters that are locked and inaccessible. I believe those are the FIR crossover filters. There are also locked and inaccessible driver delay settings.

Then there are parametric filters preloaded that ARE accessible. These filters are likely anechoic based filters and are as follows:

500Hz, 1.1dB gain, 5.260 Q
900Hz, 1.6dB gain, 4.380 Q
1.15kHz, 1.4dB gain, 7.430 Q
1.6kHz, -0.9dB gain, 3.130 Q
2.54kHz, -1.1dB gain, 9.720 Q
3.25kHz, 1.3dB gain, 7.070 Q


The accessible parametric filters that overlap with my own room tuning parametric filters I have disabled. I only correct up to a Q centered at 500Hz. I don't correct above that.
I see - very interesting. I'm wondering if this means the new 700 series monitors will have similar filters as well? Also, if the M2 filters above were disabled, I wonder if more standard correction algorithms such as Audyssey would have much success in compensating?
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Not sure what "a little flat" means and I'm hesitant to assume anything since I know the crazy bass curves you guys run with.

I put in bass traps in all corners floor to ceiling and 8 wall panels. I wish I could say it was night and day, but it wasn't. It's better, no doubt, and more so with the bass. But the way treatments are talked about around here as equivalent to a speaker upgrade, I expected much more. Definitely not equivalent to a speaker upgrade, but I guess the specific speaker and how bad the room is to start with has a lot to do with it.
I am using a DEQ curve to control the bass with my DSP. Have the curve flat. I do like bass heavy music, but I have toned it down till I get my room soundproofed better. Running a flatter curve I have found the music sounds alot better. I actually like movies with deep bass vs music.
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Hi JBL owners/experts,

I'm working on my basement HT and just bought 4x ES80 speakers to use at front and rear. The room size is about 12'x19'. These will be used for movies exclusively. Can you please suggest a matching center and a subwoofer, a pair of satellites and a good receiver? I'm thinking about ES25C as center and ES150P as subwoofer (don't really want to shake the house as I'm living in a townhouse), but read some bad reviews about ES150P that it won't last long. Is there suggested alternative to this? My current setup is HK avr3600 and a set of energy take classic 5.1. I'll need a new receiver to go with JBL as I need more HDMI input on amp. Thanks!
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post #15509 of 15509 Old Today, 07:52 AM
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Hi JBL owners/experts,

I'm working on my basement HT and just bought 4x ES80 speakers to use at front and rear. The room size is about 12'x19'. These will be used for movies exclusively. Can you please suggest a matching center and a subwoofer, a pair of satellites and a good receiver? I'm thinking about ES25C as center and ES150P as subwoofer (don't really want to shake the house as I'm living in a townhouse), but read some bad reviews about ES150P that it won't last long. Is there suggested alternative to this? My current setup is HK avr3600 and a set of energy take classic 5.1. I'll need a new receiver to go with JBL as I need more HDMI input on amp. Thanks!
Yes, the ES25C will be a good match to the 80s.
Or a LC2 center, of the Studio L series.
JBL subs seem to not stand up well. Any brand of sub will do, its not like having to match LCRs.

As for the HK3600, it does have 4 HDMI inputs and with full 7 channel pre-outs makes it possible to add power amps, if needed.
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Jbl Professional , Jbl Harman Kardon , Jbl G200 Bookshelf Speakers , Jbl S Center Center Channel Speaker , Jbl Balboa Sub 10 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Center Channel Speaker Sku Pas749099 , Jbl , Jbl Northridge E30 2 Way 6 Inch Bookshelf Speakers Pair Black Ash , Jbl Lc1 3 Way High Performance Dual 5 1 4 Inch Center Channel Loudspeaker Black , Jbl Lc2 4 Way High Performance 6 Inch Dual Wall Mountable Center Channel Loudspeaker Black , Center Channel Speakers , Athena
Gear in this thread - G200 by PriceGrabber.com



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