The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 15284 Old 07-29-2007, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Most of us JBL fanatics are over on the Lansing Heritage site.
.

Could we have a link? Thx.

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they're not just for breakfast anymore.
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post #152 of 15284 Old 07-29-2007, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

Could we have a link? Thx.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/index.php
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post #153 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Avliner View Post

Comments, photos & reviews most welcome

Well I just took them out of the box here at work (where I have my stuff shipped to). I must say that the fit and finish and build quality is excellent. First thing I noticed is that for their size these suckers are heavy! Im torn betwene leaving the grills on or off. They look sleek and elegant witht he grilles on, but modern and pretty mean and futuristic with them off. Can't wait to get home and try them out.

Dont let the pics ont he web fool you, they are very attractive speakers.
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post #154 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 10:33 AM
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Congrats ColdFrye22!

The HT series I ordered (had to go through a Synthesis dealer) will be delivered today too. I went with horns instead of domes as the L series won't fit in the locations I have available. The HT are tall and narrow and I hope sound as good as their reputation as I haven't heard them yet. But the dealer I went through uses the same model in his home and he has access to the entire Synthesis line.

These are replacing JBL's Control 1X monitors that cost me new $35 each. And they don't sound too bad if someone wants to get into a surround package really cheap. All you need is a good sub to kick in at 80Hz.

BTW the original designer of the HT line is here on the AVS forum. He engineered some of the M&K speakers as well.
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post #155 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 01:28 PM
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Well, they are here and set up. Been listening for about an hour now and the sound is incredibly like a movie theater. Vocals are clear as a bell, which was one of the reasons for upgrading. I think I'll be able to listen to them lower at night and still understand the dialog -- something I see people chasing a lot, they have good music speakers but no voice.

It's almost magical.

If anyone is interested in theater-like sound I highly recommend JBL HTs.
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post #156 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLKstudios View Post

I can't imagine this one would sound too bad...

http://www.performanceaudio.com/cgi/...oducts_id=1259

How low can that go? I was thinking of 2x of them in my room.

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post #157 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

How low can that go? I was thinking of 2x of them in my room.

Flat to 22Hz, but it is designed for high SPL. You'd need a lot of space to crank that baby.
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post #158 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MLKstudios View Post

Flat to 22Hz, but it is designed for high SPL. You'd need a lot of space to crank that baby.

Oh.. I have 'alot' of space. 800 cu ft good enough?

Can I expect alot of SPLs in subsonic frequencies?
Or if I plug the ports?
Or if I drop in the 2242Hs?

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post #159 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 03:18 PM
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800 cf! You'd need 4 then. One for each wall.
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post #160 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLKstudios View Post

800 cf! You'd need 4 then. One for each wall.

Haha, yeah.
Would 2x of these dual 18"s be able to go to say, 16hz? With authority? According to WinISD Pro, with 2000w I should be able to with one, but I'm not sure if it is within excursion limits.

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post #161 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

Filecat13,

Though I've listened to and owned many JBL models, I've not heard any of the P-Series. Would you please compare and contrast their sound with other JBL's you have or had at hand? Thanks.

The reason you've not heard the PS is because they are primarily sold thru Synthesis Dealers. And they don't have showrooms. Tweeters did have the PT800s, at one time, but I don't think they had the center or the subs.

The PS PT800s are the latest generation of the '77 L212 system, the first sat/sub system. Like the L212s the PT800s are much more linear than any JBLs before the L212. The L100s, for instance, had the "West Coast Sound", as done in the L100, I didn't like it. I much preferred the L55, L65.

The main difference between the L212(I had a 7 channel L212 HT) and the PS is how much faster the PS is. That's because all 3 drivers are Titanium, that was the first thing I noticed when I got the PT800s.

The overall sound, I find to be light and airy, with the 8" mid-bass delivering what is missing in most sat, the range from 80~800htz.

But for my analog system, I still use my pair of custom built, mirror imaged, Charged-Coupled L212s and two subs.
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post #162 of 15284 Old 07-31-2007, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

That's a nice complement of vintage gear. It's a great collection.


The older gear will have real veneer on the cabinets and better looking drivers. The woofers will be better built and the midranges will be overbuilt. The older gear will be voiced with a pronounced midbass hump and forward midrange, the "JBL sound."

The newer gear has imitation wood surfaces and IMO less attractive drivers. The tweeters are far superiior to anything from the consumer models of the 70s, and the woofers and midranges are also advanced in many ways but compromised in others, such as stamped frames. The networks are far better today, and the cabinet geometry, tuning, and porting are more precise. The voicing is quite different from the older stuff, and a vintage guy generally won't like it.

Most of what you say is correct, except about the stamped frames. The Performance Series and the Studio L Series have Cast Aluminium Frames.
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post #163 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Most of what you say is correct, except about the stamped frames. The Performance Series and the Studio L Series have Cast Aluminium Frames.

Here's the line I wrote right before the lines you quoted starting "The older gear will have...":

Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Even the entry level JBL gear these days has many improvements over these old models as well as some things that are not improvements.

I think editing that line out changes the context of what follows.

If we look at the recent entry level Northridge E Series or current Venue Series, we'd find stamped frames. I would not consider the Studio L Series entry level, and certainly not the Performance Series. I know you don't either.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #164 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLKstudios View Post


If anyone is interested in theater-like sound I highly recommend JBL HTs.

Congratulations! That's a very nice set.

Today's JBL HT Series is the descendant of the JBL SVA Series, specifically the SVA1500 and SVA Center. SVA means "symmetrical vertical array," and it's typified by a horn surrounded by two identical woofers. One of the main improvements from the older SVA Series is the replacement of the old Audax soft dome driver in the horn with a new Ti driver.

I have a pair of SVA1800s with 8" woofers, a pair of SVA2100s with 10" woofers, and an SVA Center. They are laser-like in their precision, very clean, and amazingly full-bodied. Also, they can produce a lot of sound!

Are you using the HTPS400 sub with them, or something else? It's far and away JBL's best 12" sub--a real sonic treat.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #165 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 06:18 AM
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What irritates me the most about JBL is the lack of availability. Like Mudslide has said, he has never heard the PS, I had not either until I bought 5 laat year.

And now it seems to be getting worse. I went into the local BB, for the first time in months, and the only JBLs were a pair or two of small bookshelf speakers. I must add, that what BB sells for audio is a total disgrace, anyway, Bose, Yamaha, Def Tech...

The only store I've been into in years that had any amount of JBLs, and I mean good ones, is Fry's, last summer. That's where I saw the Studio L Series, Venue, and whatever else. It was really nice to be able to audition the Studio L 890s last summer, so much that I brought a pair home with me. Figured I might as well, being I had to drive to Sac. CA to do the audition.

Its almost like JBL has become an ID brand only. Myself and most others would like to be able to audition speakers, before buying. After 4 years of trying to find the PS, I finally broke down and bought them w/o hearing them first. And that's only because I kinda knew what to expect after having the L212s for years.
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post #166 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 06:35 AM
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I agree. Im piecing together my Studio L's sight unseen and sound unheard. Im going strictly by what I have read and heard from other owners and that I have had JBL's in the past.

Now that I have my first piece of my Studio L's, the L820s, I must say I made the right choice and do not regret it.

I set them up temporarily as my mains untill I get the real mains (L890s) when I got them home yesterday and did an hour or so of 2 channel music listening with some CD's. They are excellent. For having such a narrow wallmountable cabinet and being sealed, they have a good amount of punch in the midbass. I played a couple of CD's with female vocals and was very pleased with how clear they sounded. Being a mirrored pair, the soundstage was just unbelievable. One of the CD's i listened to was my wife's Cristina Aguilera cd and during one ballad it seemed as if she was standing a few feet in front of me mic in hand.

I was hearing nuances in the music int hese cd's I had never heard before. I could make out the subtle sounds of the musicians hand scurrying along the frets of the guitar for example. If these L820s sound so good with music I cant wait to hear the L890s!

Just as a test I turned off my subwoofer and found that on the music I was listening to I really didnt miss it at all. I must admit its a crap subwoofer that is just muddy and boomy and probably does more harm than good on music (Its the sub from an old JBL SCS system).
But the 820s just produced such a rich sound that, unless it was a bass heavy track or genre of music, not having a sub was more than adequate.

Cant wait to get it all together along with a good SVS sub. I would definitely recommend the Studio L's to anyone
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post #167 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 07:21 AM
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ColdFyre22, you're in for a real treat when you finally get the L890s, you'll be able to toss out the sub.
Last year while I was working on my SUB1500 boxes, I setup the L890s in place of the L212s, I had in the HT at the time. The 890s were amazing in a 3200cuft room, w/o a sub.
After I got the 5 PT800s, last Dec., and had both the PT800s and the L890s setup in their rooms, there were days I liked the sound of the L890s better than the PT800s, they were that good. I have since given the L890s to my daughter, after she moved into her own house, she just loves those things.
Also having mirror imaged speakers does, indeed, create a better soundstage, as I found out, when I built my main L212s in mirror image, big improvement over the originals.
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post #168 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Are you using the HTPS400 sub with them, or something else? It's far and away JBL's best 12" sub--a real sonic treat.

I haven't gotten to the sub upgrade yet, but that one is on my list. Wanted to get the L/C/R before I decided on what I needed to upgraded next. Due to the total cost I'll be doing the upgrade in stages.

Currently I am using their CSS10 (Cinema Sound Series), simply because it fit into a nook space in my apt. -- and was cheap. I knew when I bought the Control 1X as satellites and the sub that it was going to be temporary. Total cost for the temporary home theater set-up was around $500 (less than the cost of one HT speaker).

The three HTs (1-HT4H and 2-HT5s) were the first step and unless I wanted to take my chances with a somewhat shady ID I had to buy them through a local Synthesis dealer at full MSRP.

On a side note, I agree with many comments I've read here and at the Heritage forum that JBL is doing an awful job getting these incredible speakers under people's noses. Unless you actually know what you want and are willing to search out a dealer (and willing to pay full MSRP) you don't know they exist.

I wrote an email to Harman about the trouble I had finding a dealer etc., and they replied with "Our Synthesis products are our premier Home Entertainment System products. Quite a bit goes into the setup and installation of these systems and we only sell the systems with professional installation." Which was total BS as mine were dropped off (by a friendly guy) at the curb. IMHO someone (or some group) in JBL marketing and distribution needs to be fired (or at least made to "see the light of day").

Anyway, next will be to replace the HT5s as L/R with THX rated HT4Vs and move the 5s to the surround position or upgrade the sub. I'm going to listen to what I have for a while before I choose. So far the Control1X are doing a pretty good job as surrounds so it will likely be the sub.

I am debating between the HTPS400 and an SVS 16-46 PCi. Because of the price difference I'll probably go with the SVS, for a while anyway, and get the HT4Vs soon afterwards.

According to specs the SVS has a lower end but I imagine the HTPS is tighter and can move more air.
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post #169 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLKstudios View Post

On a side note, I agree with many comments I've read here and at the Heritage forum that JBL is doing an awful job getting these incredible speakers under people's noses. Unless you actually know what you want and are willing to search out a dealer (and willing to pay full MSRP) you don't know they exist.

I think Harman pissed off many HiFi stores over the last couple of decades. I know that is the case with a local HT shop that used to sell Infinity speakers. The owner told me he would never deal with Harman again. What the exact reasons were, I don't know.
And then there is the case that Filecat 13 had. He lives in SoCa, where the PS are made and he couldn't get a local Synthesis dealer to sell him a 5.2 PS system. The dealer told him he couldn't be bothered for only a $10k system.
So Filecat had to search the net until he found a dealer that would sell him a system, go figure.


Quote:


I wrote an email to Harman about the trouble I had finding a dealer etc., and they replied with "Our Synthesis products are our premier Home Entertainment System products. Quite a bit goes into the setup and installation of these systems and we only sell the systems with professional installation." Which was total BS as mine were dropped off (by a friendly guy) at the curb. IMHO someone (or some group) in JBL marketing and distribution needs to be fired (or at least made to "see the light of day").

There is a big difference between buying a couple, or 3 speakers and setting them up where you think they're good, and having an entire HT system installed. I mean 7 channels, of speakers and all the electronics that go with it and have it all dialed in to its best possible sound.

I built my own room, be it a LR used as HT and I think it sounds damn good.
I'm sure it could be better if it were dialed in properly. But being I've got thick carpet, well padded fabric chairs, not leather, minimal windows, w/thick drapes the need for accoustic treatment would be minimal.
Plus I've played around with various sub locations, as well as the number of subs.
Its all time consumming.
And the people with the big bucks to spend would rather have a pro come in, set up the entire thing and be done with it.
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post #170 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 10:19 AM
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I totally agree that a custom install is another thing. But my point here was they didn't need to make me go through a specialized dealer to sell me three standalone speakers -- that can be dropped off at the curb in two boxes.

Had I bought another brand from an ID, the UPS guy would have at least carried them to the door.

I think they should separate the built in speakers that many of the Synthesis line include and make the standalones available to us, the masses, online at a discount -- or at least offer free shipping -- would be wise. They could sell the HT line, the PS line, the Array line and even the K2s.

IOW they don't need back into the B&M stores but instead a dedicated online store like they use to sell the refurbs. Put a K2 in your basket.
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post #171 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 10:52 AM
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The only speakers JBL sells at a discount are refurbs, such as the PT800s, that are currently available. Although the Studio L series has been seen online at fairly large discounts, the question then becomes, are those e-tailers authorized JBL dealers? Most likely not, and how did they manage to get them, if they're not authorized?
Also, those of us at Lansing Heritage site, that have bought the PS line, have paid nowhere near the $1700/ea price. I bought mine from a guy in central CA., via ebay, that had them for so little time, he never opening the boxes!

Years ago the only way JBLs were sold at a discount was if you bought a store's display models, as I did in '79.

As far as you having to go thru a Synthesis dealer, who has no stock on hand, goes back to my last post, imo, they pissed off the small HiFi shops. Maybe because JBL started selling at CC, then Sears, MW, BB. In which case the small independent dealer could, in no way, compete at the prices sold at the big box stores. That is only a guess, on my part.

And as I've said before, the Synthesis dealers don't have any showrooms for auditions, at least none that I've talked to. The local dealer, here in Reno, doesn't even have a store front anymore, works out of his house., or so I gathered by the address given for him on a web site.
As far as not needing B&M, I've seen alot of guys on this forum, trying to decide what speakers to buy, because they have no clue, and are hesitant to buy speakers online, w/o having auditioned them first.
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post #172 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

As far as not needing B&M, I've seen alot of guys on this forum, trying to decide what speakers to buy, because they have no clue, and are hesitant to buy speakers online, w/o having auditioned them first.

Isn't that the point. There is no where to audition them so why not sell them online? They would then be the "authorized" dealer.

I bought mine unheard (and I believe filecat did too). It was having experience with their other speakers (and reading what I could find online) that made my decision.

Many people are buying that way now -- based on reviews and etc. When I buy online I usally pay no sales tax and often get free shipping to my door, and many times I have never even seen what I bought before it arrives.

It seems to me they don't want to compete with Swan, AV123, SVS and others who do a lot of online sales.
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post #173 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 11:14 AM
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I bought my Studio L pair at a significantly lower price than list but I also purchased them from a non authorized retailer on eBay. I doubt they are stolen or anything shady liek that as the seller has a legit e-store on ebay and has thousands and thousands of positive feedback and a miniscule amount of negative feedback. The speakers i received came shipped via UPS in the original boxes and as fasr as I could tell never opened or tampered with. I inspected them fully and found no issues with them.

For ther significantly cheaper price i paid for these speakers ill bite the bullet when it comes to not having a warranty. You can go to JBL's web page and buy online any replacmeent drivers or crossover network you need inc ase of anything at a VERY reasnable price. I could replace 2 - 3 drivers and STILL have paid less than the price of buying the pair at an authorized retailer.
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post #174 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 11:31 AM
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I've seen the Studio L series too online as they seem to be a more popular, and prettier, speaker system. The HT speakers I found only at a very shady ID. They did, however, contact me and told me they had one of the three I was looking for available and is why I decided to go with the authorized dealer.

My point is simply why make people jump through hoops to buy a speaker when the internet could give them an "authorized" outlet. It just bewilders me.

After all, no matter what prestigious line they choose to include it in, it is just a speaker. You plug it in and sound comes out. If someone wants to do a custom install, they can be found online too.
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post #175 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 01:09 PM
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Back to the HT speakers I got...

Am watching Munich and the sound is phenomenal. In an elevator scene I could hear the screeching of the metal and the echo it created as if it were real. Voices are crisp and clear, no straining for dialogue. They are just alive.

Do think I need a better sub now. Need to decide between a SVS 16-46 PCi or SVS 20-39 Plus. The cost of the HTPS400 is a bit prohibitive. Maybe later (when I hit the lotto).

If interested I am running them on an H/K 7.1 with 55 wpc. The volume level at 0 is 85dB reference with pink noise. Normal listening level is -20 to -10 dB. At -25dB sound is still clear and intelligible (i.e. night time mode for an apt.).
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post #176 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Congratulations! That's a very nice set.

Today's JBL HT Series is the descendant of the JBL SVA Series, specifically the SVA1500 and SVA Center. SVA means "symmetrical vertical array," and it's typified by a horn surrounded by two identical woofers. One of the main improvements from the older SVA Series is the replacement of the old Audax soft dome driver in the horn with a new Ti driver.

I have a pair of SVA1800s with 8" woofers, a pair of SVA2100s with 10" woofers, and an SVA Center. They are laser-like in their precision, very clean, and amazingly full-bodied. Also, they can produce a lot of sound!

Are you using the HTPS400 sub with them, or something else? It's far and away JBL's best 12" sub--a real sonic treat.

You are lucky.
I wish I was into Hi-Fi systems when the SVA's were around. I've always wanted a set of SVA2100 once I heard about them.

"The choices we make define our lives, because choice, not chance, determines destiny"

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post #177 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 01:33 PM
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Isn't that the point. There is no where to audition them so why not sell them online? They would then be the "authorized" dealer.

Depends what line you're talking about. In the case of the HT or any other line sold by Synthesis, its thru them or on the Harman online store, for refurbs. I think Harman doesn't want to screw over their Synthesis dealers, like they did with other dealers years ago.
Any other line can be bought online.

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I bought mine unheard (and I believe filecat did too). It was having experience with their other speakers (and reading what I could find online) that made my decision.

Actually Filecat has mentioned at Lansing Her. that he first heard the PS at a trade show, back around 2000 or '01.
I like to be able to hear a speaker system before I buy, as I did with the L890s. But the Fry's where I bought them is about 130 miles from here, in Sac, Ca. And the closest Tweeters is in LV, assuming it survived the closings of Tweeter stores in SoCa. And it may have not.
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post #178 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MLKstudios View Post

Do think I need a better sub now. Need to decide between a SVS 16-46 PCi or SVS 20-39 Plus. The cost of the HTPS400 is a bit prohibitive. Maybe later (when I hit the lotto).

Completely understand. The SVS brand is a fine, fine sub. The HTPS400 is pricey, but it truly is a kick-ass sub.

Don't hate me when I report that I bought two of them for about $400 each (in the box) a while back. Sorry, no more where they came from.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #179 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 02:11 PM
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Actually Filecat has mentioned at Lansing Her. that he first heard the PS at a trade show, back around 2000 or '01.

Yep, I first heard the Performance Series at a show in Chicago, and I was smitten. Then later I heard them in the JBL showroom in Northridge. Without those auditions I would not have pursued them for months with such persistence. I bought 'em from a dealer in upper NY State and had them shipped to CA.

Actually, it's much easier to find them now than it was then, though they are still by no means readily available. For the moment, there seem to be some online at harmanaudio.com as has been noted.

Even at refurb prices, they're not cheap, and the Studio L Series is a better deal (if not a better speaker).

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post #180 of 15284 Old 08-01-2007, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

You are lucky.
I wish I was into Hi-Fi systems when the SVA's were around. I've always wanted a set of SVA2100 once I heard about them.

The SVA2100 is the only of the SVAs to have a 1.5" driver in the horn instead of a 1" so it does shine the brightest of all. Add in dual 10" drivers and it's really something. The 10 inchers are monsters when out of the cabinet, like icebergs with 90% of the mass hidden from view.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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