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post #691 of 1025 Old 03-05-2014, 10:06 AM
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I'm posting this on the off chance that someone who does apprciate good music and the thought of electrostats is appealing, yet scarry given some (many) ciomments online. I've never had experience with an ES speaker, and I'm in an area where I can't really audition them. I have a set of Theos with Stage X Center. There is a TON of talk of spacing from side walls, and from the back wall. So much talk in fact it made me shockinly nervous about buying them. Let me tell you this. These things sound AMAZING regardless if they are 6" off the wall sides or back. yes you do lose a little imaging, but they sound PHENOMINAL. I'm not saying they don't benefit from a little space, but if you happen to be in the same place I was at where it was scaring me of making the purchase, don't. I think it's entierly overdone online. I also was hesitant as you rarely see them used in a home theater setup. Never mind on a stage behind an AT screen. That part I haven't done yet so will report back when that part of the project is completed.
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post #692 of 1025 Old 03-05-2014, 10:37 AM
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Will be purchasing a pair of ESLs along with a Dynamo 500 next friday (payday). Been drooling over these speakers for a while now and have watched and read too many reviews/articles to count. Needless to say I am ridiculously excited.

 

Plus, Best Buy's running a deal (again) right now where you get a Motion 8 center and two Motion 2 bookshelf (rear) speakers free when you buy a pair of ML floors and a sub. Although, I'll likely sell all 3 and use the money to get an Electromotion center as I'm not interested in a surround setup at the moment.

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post #693 of 1025 Old 03-05-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk26 View Post

I'm posting this on the off chance that someone who does apprciate good music and the thought of electrostats is appealing, yet scarry given some (many) ciomments online. I've never had experience with an ES speaker, and I'm in an area where I can't really audition them. I have a set of Theos with Stage X Center. There is a TON of talk of spacing from side walls, and from the back wall. So much talk in fact it made me shockinly nervous about buying them. Let me tell you this. These things sound AMAZING regardless if they are 6" off the wall sides or back. yes you do lose a little imaging, but they sound PHENOMINAL. I'm not saying they don't benefit from a little space, but if you happen to be in the same place I was at where it was scaring me of making the purchase, don't. I think it's entierly overdone online. I also was hesitant as you rarely see them used in a home theater setup. Never mind on a stage behind an AT screen. That part I haven't done yet so will report back when that part of the project is completed.

Thanks for posting this. I have recently become very interested in the ESL speakers (I'd be looking at the ElectroMotion ESL), and have wondered about using them fairly close to a back wall given some of the comments I have read in reviews and elsewhere. Your comment is reassuring.

I would also be using them in a mixed 2-channel music and home theater environment with an AT screen (three EM ESL across the front, undecided on surround channels). As such, I'm very curious to see how your system works out under these conditions and whether you notice a tonal shift when the speakers are behind the screen.

What AT screen do you intend to use? I've been looking at the Seymour Centerstage XD. Even with the AT screen, I will still be able to leave about 2 feet between the speakers and the wall behind them. Anyway, looking forward to your comments when you get them set up.

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post #694 of 1025 Old 03-05-2014, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk26 View Post

I'm posting this on the off chance that someone who does apprciate good music and the thought of electrostats is appealing, yet scarry given some (many) ciomments online. I've never had experience with an ES speaker, and I'm in an area where I can't really audition them. I have a set of Theos with Stage X Center. There is a TON of talk of spacing from side walls, and from the back wall. So much talk in fact it made me shockinly nervous about buying them. Let me tell you this. These things sound AMAZING regardless if they are 6" off the wall sides or back. yes you do lose a little imaging, but they sound PHENOMINAL. I'm not saying they don't benefit from a little space, but if you happen to be in the same place I was at where it was scaring me of making the purchase, don't. I think it's entierly overdone online. I also was hesitant as you rarely see them used in a home theater setup. Never mind on a stage behind an AT screen. That part I haven't done yet so will report back when that part of the project is completed.

Could not agree more. I've got the Montis and Motif X with the back of the speaker maybe 6" from the back wall and they do still sound phenomenal. When the wife is out of town I will sometimes pull them away from the wall for some serious listening but I'm never left disappointed when they back to their regular spot.
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post #695 of 1025 Old 03-05-2014, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk26 View Post

I'm posting this on the off chance that someone who does apprciate good music and the thought of electrostats is appealing, yet scarry given some (many) ciomments online. I've never had experience with an ES speaker, and I'm in an area where I can't really audition them. I have a set of Theos with Stage X Center. There is a TON of talk of spacing from side walls, and from the back wall. So much talk in fact it made me shockinly nervous about buying them. Let me tell you this. These things sound AMAZING regardless if they are 6" off the wall sides or back. yes you do lose a little imaging, but they sound PHENOMINAL. I'm not saying they don't benefit from a little space, but if you happen to be in the same place I was at where it was scaring me of making the purchase, don't. I think it's entierly overdone online. I also was hesitant as you rarely see them used in a home theater setup. Never mind on a stage behind an AT screen. That part I haven't done yet so will report back when that part of the project is completed.

I also have Theos and Stage X and absolutely love them. I have an old Atlantic Tech 450 (7.2) system and use the old fronts as my side surrounds. I find the direct sides are a big improvement over the dipoles. Plan to replace the subs with 1500X's later this year.
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post #696 of 1025 Old 03-05-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post

Thanks for posting this. I have recently become very interested in the ESL speakers (I'd be looking at the ElectroMotion ESL), and have wondered about using them fairly close to a back wall given some of the comments I have read in reviews and elsewhere. Your comment is reassuring.

I would also be using them in a mixed 2-channel music and home theater environment with an AT screen (three EM ESL across the front, undecided on surround channels). As such, I'm very curious to see how your system works out under these conditions and whether you notice a tonal shift when the speakers are behind the screen.

What AT screen do you intend to use? I've been looking at the Seymour Centerstage XD. Even with the AT screen, I will still be able to leave about 2 feet between the speakers and the wall behind them. Anyway, looking forward to your comments when you get them set up.

I will be running an Elunevision Reference Studio Audio wave 4k 140"

Here are some specs.
http://www.elunevision.com/referenceaudioweave.html

My False wall is 24" deep as well. Biggest stress I had was trying to arrange the front stage height not knowing where to have the screen frame pass the front of the speaker. There is about a 3.5" gap from driver to bottom of panel so I arranged it so that was the part that crossed in front of the speaker. I'll be sure to post updates when done.
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post #697 of 1025 Old 03-05-2014, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John P View Post

I also have Theos and Stage X and absolutely love them. I have an old Atlantic Tech 450 (7.2) system and use the old fronts as my side surrounds. I find the direct sides are a big improvement over the dipoles. Plan to replace the subs with 1500X's later this year.

I'm running 2 1500's myself. Should work well I think. I have FX2's fo rthe rears and the surrounds. Most don't know and assume they are dipoles. They are not. I'm curious to see how they sound as sides and surrounds.
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post #698 of 1025 Old 03-08-2014, 08:36 AM
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If anyone is interested I'm selling a mint pair of Martin Logan Spire's in rare bubinga with silver air frame. I'm in the Atlanta, Georgia area. So anyone in GA or surrounding States would be good.
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post #699 of 1025 Old 03-08-2014, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jslaw81 View Post

If anyone is interested I'm selling a mint pair of Martin Logan Spire's in rare bubinga with silver air frame. I'm in the Atlanta, Georgia area. So anyone in GA or surrounding States would be good.

I am looking for a pair in Atlanta but yours are bit pricey for me ($4,250). Dont get me wrong, your listing price is very reasonable especially considering the original price of $8,495 per pair and the very rare color combination. But above my price range, unfortunately. I am sure they will be sold fairly quickly.
I am looking for used Electromotions below $1500 in fair shape.
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post #700 of 1025 Old 03-10-2014, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by evanengisch View Post

Will be purchasing a pair of ESLs along with a Dynamo 500 next friday (payday). Been drooling over these speakers for a while now and have watched and read too many reviews/articles to count. Needless to say I am ridiculously excited.

Plus, Best Buy's running a deal (again) right now where you get a Motion 8 center and two Motion 2 bookshelf (rear) speakers free when you buy a pair of ML floors and a sub. Although, I'll likely sell all 3 and use the money to get an Electromotion center as I'm not interested in a surround setup at the moment.
Hmm I did this deal, which I love btw but my deal came with the motion6 as the center oh well good for you.

Edit: I was mistaken I DID get the Motion 8 center
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post #701 of 1025 Old 03-10-2014, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanengisch View Post

Will be purchasing a pair of ESLs along with a Dynamo 500 next friday (payday). Been drooling over these speakers for a while now and have watched and read too many reviews/articles to count. Needless to say I am ridiculously excited.

Plus, Best Buy's running a deal (again) right now where you get a Motion 8 center and two Motion 2 bookshelf (rear) speakers free when you buy a pair of ML floors and a sub. Although, I'll likely sell all 3 and use the money to get an Electromotion center as I'm not interested in a surround setup at the moment.

I've done this deal as well, but I also bought two Motion 4's to add to this set up for 7.1 surround. I should have the system by this Tuesday, several speakers were not in stock. I look forward to setting this up, can't wait!biggrin.gif
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post #702 of 1025 Old 03-10-2014, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rr6966 View Post


I've done this deal as well, but I also bought two Motion 4's to add to this set up for 7.1 surround. I should have the system by this Tuesday, several speakers were not in stock. I look forward to setting this up, can't wait!biggrin.gif

What did you get? I am looking at this deal as well..

 

Considering:


Motion 20's

Motion 30 Center Channel (upgrade)

And the free Dynamo 500 and Motion 2 Surround Speakers.

 

This would be about $2250 with the upgraded center channel. Is this a good set?

 

Thanks!

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post #703 of 1025 Old 03-14-2014, 07:51 AM
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Chris,

I bought the following :

2 Electro Motion EM- ESL's
1 Motion 8 Center
2 Motion 4's for L & R rears
2 Motion 2's for 6 & 7 channel
1 Dynamo 500

* Bought at Best Buy Magnolia. The deal essentially gave me the 2 Motion 2's and the Motion 8 for free, and $800 dollar savings. I've been impressed with the speakers! The Motion 4's kinda floored me because they are such small speakers with a big sound. Also, the Dynamo, is a better sub than I thought. I replaced a medium quality Klipch 10" sub, which cost about the same, and the Dynamo is better. I will say setting up the Electrostatic ESL's is a little more complicated than your standard speakers to set up. Right now, I'm trying to break the speakers in, then I will adjust more.
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post #704 of 1025 Old 03-17-2014, 11:04 PM
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^^ Really nice deal. I work at a bestbuy magnolia and love to demo that exact system for my clients. Not to mention the value is incredible right now, because of that bundle deal.

I myself finally got my first Martin Logan speakers today. I bought a pair of Motion 15's in Gloss Black, can't wait till they come in and I can set them up in my room. Still need to eventually get a motion 8 center and a dynamo 700 to go with them, but that's later down the road.
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post #705 of 1025 Old 03-18-2014, 10:16 AM
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I got the Electromotion ESL's a little over a year ago. They came with a free Dynamo 700,which I sold for $500,so the speakers were closer to $1700 smile.gif The 700 was no match for my xv15,sold that and now I have an xs30 smile.gif The problem with forums..Too many people throw their own opinion out there as gospel. Putting the ESL's 5-6' out into the room is absurd for most people. I've pulled them out that far,of course I couldn't leave them there,but 12" from the wall sounds great as well. The sound stage isn't as deep,but it sounds great . There are people on these forums that eat,sleep,drink home audio/theater. If you listen to them,your going to second guess yourself every 5 mins. Room treatments,amps,dac's..blah blah blah. I know I could take my 2 amps out of the equation and I would hardly notice.
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post #706 of 1025 Old 03-20-2014, 06:36 PM
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Hey guys! Just got my speakers and set them up tonight. I am selling the two surround speakers and just going with a 3.1 setup.

 

Motion 30 Center

Motion 20 Left and Right

Dynamo 500 Subwoofer.

 

I hooked the front three to my new VSX-70 reciever (Have not hooked up sub yet) and ran the Auto Mcacc. I am not sure if it did it right because my speakers do not sound loud at all (-20 DBS)

 

I am wondering what I could have possibly done wrong, or maybe I just need to hook up the sub.

 

I have a 5.1 Def Tech (No Sub, but there are subs in the towers) and it is exponentially louder then my first go with these Martin Logans. I am pretty sure I did something wrong.

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post #707 of 1025 Old 03-21-2014, 03:27 PM
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Just to follow up on this.. I am running a 3.1 Martin Logan setup (Motion 30 Center and Motion 20 for Left and Right, with the 500 Subwoofer) and it just does not seem to be pusing much volume through the speakers. I have to put the volume between -10 and -20 to get even decent volume from my speakers. (In comparision, I have a definitive technology surround setup with a VSX-23 and I can get comparable sound at -30 to -40 DB)

 

Is there a way to change the volume level, or is there anything I am missing? I ran the MCACC a few times and it still does not appear to be pushing that much volume through..

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Just an FYI I set all three front speakers to "small" and am using the "pro logic" surround setup. (Even though I have no rears)

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post #708 of 1025 Old 03-21-2014, 04:02 PM
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The Martin Logans are 4 ohm - what were your Def. Tech's rated? Why are you using a 3.1 set up ? Just curious.

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Thank you for the reply. I am not sure what OHM means, or how to find out.

I am only running a 3.1 because i live in a townhome and there is no real room for the surrounds.
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post #710 of 1025 Old 03-21-2014, 04:19 PM
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I recently added a Depth I and a Descent I to my theater replacing some older, ported subs. I listen to a lot of music and wanted subs that were more music oriented. I am totally happy with them. They have enough finesse for music but can also kick out the lf on movie soundtracks. I know these are being replaced with newer models but just thought I'd share.

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post #711 of 1025 Old 03-21-2014, 04:22 PM
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How can i check how many OHMs my receiver is driving to each speaker?

I have a pioneer elite VSX 70
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post #712 of 1025 Old 03-21-2014, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Thank you for the reply. I am not sure what OHM means, or how to find out.

I am only running a 3.1 because i live in a townhome and there is no real room for the surrounds.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/matching-amps-and-loudspeakers-dummieslike-me-1

The ML's are 4 ohm - so they are going to take a little more power to drive perhaps, than your previous speakers. That said, if they can play as loud as you want without issues, I wouldn't worry about what the setting is on your receiver. I find that different movies require anywhere from -15 to reference to a little above reference settings.

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post #713 of 1025 Old 03-21-2014, 04:45 PM
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How can i check how many OHMs my receiver is driving to each speaker?

Look in either the owners manual that came with them, or go to the manufacturer's website, and look up the specifications .

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post #714 of 1025 Old 03-22-2014, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

I recently added a Depth I and a Descent I to my theater replacing some older, ported subs. I listen to a lot of music and wanted subs that were more music oriented. I am totally happy with them. They have enough finesse for music but can also kick out the lf on movie soundtracks. I know these are being replaced with newer models but just thought I'd share.

I run two Depth i's in my set up and really love them.

Having said that, I would love two Descent i's or even better, a couple of their new Balanced Force subs as I would love to use their "Perfect Bass Kit" to see how well they EQ the subs.

How much of a difference in output do you hear between the Descent and the Depth?

Speakers: Martin Logan Montis, EM C2, Dual Depth I Subs, JBL S38 surround (upgrading soon) | Processor: Yamaha CX-A5000 | Amp: Sunfire TGA-5400 | Sources: DirecTV HR34, HTPC, Mac Mini, Oppo BDP-103, PS4, PS3, Xbox One, Wii U | Television: Panasonic 65VT50 | Remote: Logitech Harmony Ultimate
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post #715 of 1025 Old 03-22-2014, 07:48 AM
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Double post

Speakers: Martin Logan Montis, EM C2, Dual Depth I Subs, JBL S38 surround (upgrading soon) | Processor: Yamaha CX-A5000 | Amp: Sunfire TGA-5400 | Sources: DirecTV HR34, HTPC, Mac Mini, Oppo BDP-103, PS4, PS3, Xbox One, Wii U | Television: Panasonic 65VT50 | Remote: Logitech Harmony Ultimate
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post #716 of 1025 Old 03-22-2014, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by liltalkm View Post

I run two Depth i's in my set up and really love them.

Having said that, I would love two Descent i's or even better, a couple of their new Balanced Force subs as I would love to use their "Perfect Bass Kit" to see how well they EQ the subs.

How much of a difference in output do you hear between the Descent and the Depth?

Quite a bit. The descent is on the front wall between the right and center speakers, the depth is in a corner in the back of the room. The max output of the descent is significantly higher in my room but the depth is no slouch.
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post #717 of 1025 Old 04-07-2014, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post

Thanks for posting this. I have recently become very interested in the ESL speakers (I'd be looking at the ElectroMotion ESL), and have wondered about using them fairly close to a back wall given some of the comments I have read in reviews and elsewhere. Your comment is reassuring.

I would also be using them in a mixed 2-channel music and home theater environment with an AT screen (three EM ESL across the front, undecided on surround channels). As such, I'm very curious to see how your system works out under these conditions and whether you notice a tonal shift when the speakers are behind the screen.

What AT screen do you intend to use? I've been looking at the Seymour Centerstage XD. Even with the AT screen, I will still be able to leave about 2 feet between the speakers and the wall behind them. Anyway, looking forward to your comments when you get them set up.

Thought I'd give a bit of an update.

Got everything hooked up for a bit of a test run. Listened to everything with the screen off and with VERY limited adjustments. No EQ, everything flat, a quick toe in simply by eye and a few up times getting up to turn them a bit, but literally played maybe 5 minutes. They sounded amazing. They I ran the Audessey, and man it just got better. From there I put the screen up and to me, and anyone else listening there was nothing audible They are about 10ft apart and I'm about 13ft away. The Audessey was within an inch of every speaker in my setup when it it's thing. Pretty impressive actually. What was also cool is how it set up the subs. I have 2 15's also up on the stage. It set the distances of them like 26 and 47 ft. Clearly this isn't correct, but it surely did it to get the nodes worked out in the listening positions. All in all it was very uniform. When I ran Audessey again it made the most minor of adjustments. Again, very impressed.

I will say that I'm not sure I'd suggest stand up L/R as a center here. Although these ML's have come a long way for dispersion, it's still a tad wide for a center. If sitting way fa rto the side, I'm certain it woul dbe noticed. I'm running the stage X and it's frankly amazing, but it was a hard pill to swallow at the price. I'm sure the Motif, or the original Stage that can still be found would still be a more suitable setup.

Considering they sound amazing with a 5 minute setup, I'm really looking to the final tweaking to come.
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post #718 of 1025 Old 04-08-2014, 07:20 AM
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Awesome, thanks for following up.

I have been wondering whether a third EM-ESL for center channel would have the dispersion necessary to cover my seating area. I just did the math and, for most movie watching, people will be within a 32 degree arc. The dispersion of the EM-ESL is 30 degrees according to the ML website. So then I went to take a look at the Stage X because I hadn't really looked at it closely. Turns out Martin Logan specifies its horizontal dispersion as 30 degrees, just like the EM-ESL! This is also the case with the Motif. I may have to chat with them about that, but it appears I won't be gaining anything as far as dispersion by going with the Stage X (and it would cost almost twice as much [edit: three times as much, and the Motif twice as much] as a single EM-ESL).

I am a big believer in using the same speaker for all three front channels if at all possible, which IMO is one of the two main benefits of an AT screen. So I'm hoping it will work.

Are you using MultEQ XT32 with SubEQ HT? You must be if it is setting separate distances for each sub. You might want to check the settings on the back of the subs to ensure the phase switches are set the same way, and if they were not rerun Audyssey after making the change of course. To have Audyssey measure two subs that are about equidistant from the MLP so differently is odd. I bet the subs are out of phase with each other (before Audyssey) and Audyssey is adjusting the distance to make up for it.

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post #719 of 1025 Old 04-08-2014, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post

Awesome, thanks for following up.

I have been wondering whether a third EM-ESL for center channel would have the dispersion necessary to cover my seating area. I just did the math and, for most movie watching, people will be within a 32 degree arc. The dispersion of the EM-ESL is 30 degrees according to the ML website. So then I went to take a look at the Stage X because I hadn't really looked at it closely. Turns out Martin Logan specifies its horizontal dispersion as 30 degrees, just like the EM-ESL! This is also the case with the Motif. I may have to chat with them about that, but it appears I won't be gaining anything as far as dispersion by going with the Stage X (and it would cost almost twice as much [edit: three times as much, and the Motif twice as much] as a single EM-ESL).

I am a big believer in using the same speaker for all three front channels if at all possible, which IMO is one of the two main benefits of an AT screen. So I'm hoping it will work.

Are you using MultEQ XT32 with SubEQ HT? You must be if it is setting separate distances for each sub. You might want to check the settings on the back of the subs to ensure the phase switches are set the same way, and if they were not rerun Audyssey after making the change of course. To have Audyssey measure two subs that are about equidistant from the MLP so differently is odd. I bet the subs are out of phase with each other (before Audyssey) and Audyssey is adjusting the distance to make up for it.[/quote

Here was a REALLY sad truth I came to find with multiple calls to Martin Logan. They don't know ANYTHING on the phone. They can answer some generic stuff, but thats about it. I've had opposite answers, and some answers that were blatantly made up. At one point I gave up reading and used it more as an additional source of information, not the ultimate in anything. I played with a Single tower as a center, and compared it to the stage X The difference was FAR beyond obvious.

I'm literally going to go down right now to check that sub out. I did find Audessey pretty crazy in that it found my back left surround to be out of phase, stopped the test, and asked me to redo the whole thing. I went and looked, and yes it was reversed somehow. There was no pre or post Audessey odd sounds in terms of bass, but it's a more open space than a closed room, so who knows.
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post #720 of 1025 Old 04-08-2014, 01:26 PM
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So you compared the Stage X and a single EM-ESL and the horizontal dispersion is substantially different? How far away from the center of the speaker can you get before the change in sound becomes noticeable? What else is way different? Thanks.

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