Martin Logan Owners Thread - Page 27 - AVS Forum
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post #781 of 1026 Old 07-04-2014, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
i was researching the martin logan motion for my home movie theater setup and i found that amazon is selling the 40's for only $762 in cherrywood while black is 999. is this a too good to pass up? sold by amazon and says new. they'll be fronts for a 7.1 setup
If the Seller is actually Amazon (versus another seller operating on the Amazon site), then you'd have great buyer protection. Sounds like a good deal, but I'd bounce an email off of the AVS folks who are forum sponsors here, and see what they can do. Craig, are you listening?
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post #782 of 1026 Old 07-04-2014, 05:45 PM
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If the Seller is actually Amazon (versus another seller operating on the Amazon site), then you'd have great buyer protection. Sounds like a good deal, but I'd bounce an email off of the AVS folks who are forum sponsors here, and see what they can do. Craig, are you listening?
they're probably off for the holidays and the price dropped again to $724 each so I jumped on it before price went up. I'm officially an owner of Martin Logan speaker set. Now to find 4 speakers for the rear and find a good deal for the motion 30 for the center....and of course a new reciever that can power them. happy 4th to everyone

it says the motion 2 is discontinued but i'm thinking if i find them i can get away with pairing them with the motion 40 front and motion 30 center instead of buying the motion 4.

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post #783 of 1026 Old 07-06-2014, 12:49 PM
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I was looking at the Martin Logan website and their recommended system (http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSeries/systems.php) for the motion 40 fronts and motion 30 center is to use the motion fx for the surrounds. What are people here using for 5.1 or 7.1 systems with similar front/center? Are people using the motion 2, 4 or fx? I'm also wondering if for a 15x30' room I can get almost as good home movie experience with a 5.1 as 7.1 with one of the above setups

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post #784 of 1026 Old 07-06-2014, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
I was looking at the Martin Logan website and their recommended system (http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSeries/systems.php) for the motion 40 fronts and motion 30 center is to use the motion fx for the surrounds. What are people here using for 5.1 or 7.1 systems with similar front/center? Are people using the motion 2, 4 or fx?
I am using Motion 12's for LF and RF, Motion 6 center (thinking upgrade to 30 here) and 2 Motion 2's for Left/Right side surrounds. Two Pyle Pro cubes for rears for now. The Motion 2's are going to end up as rear surrounds as I am getting ML Helos in ceiling mounted on the sides, pointing the tweeters towards the seats. Also adding either 2 or 4 Helos in ceiling for Dolby Atmos


In all honestly, close friend has the FX's that I want. We hooked up My Cubes vs. Motion 2 vs. the FX's for rear surround. We used Transformersark of the Moon Highway mass destruction scene. For rears, I got to be honest here. the FX's didn't enhance the experience for the money at all. There was a little more crispness in sound from both the FX and Motion 2's, but nothing that justifies spending that type of money on Rear Surrounds.


For the money, if you have a smaller 4-6 person theater, the FX's are way over priced for this type of setup. Now if I had a larger room for 8+ people, then I would definitely buy the FX's. To me it really depends on the size of the listening area.


My 12's are going to be around along time as I have heard the way higher priced 40's and other than look and design, I really can't tell a difference. But I am definitely upgrading the Motion 6 as it is too small of a center.

Cool Beans.
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post #785 of 1026 Old 07-06-2014, 03:19 PM
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For rears, I got to be honest here. the FX's didn't enhance the experience for the money at all. There was a little more crispness in sound from both the FX and Motion 2's, but nothing that justifies spending that type of money on Rear Surrounds.


For the money, if you have a smaller 4-6 person theater, the FX's are way over priced for this type of setup. Now if I had a larger room for 8+ people, then I would definitely buy the FX's. To me it really depends on the size of the listening area.

thanks for the input. I'm still working on the room but it'll be two rows of seats only, about 4 seats each, with one row 12-13 feet back and another 14-15ft back. I imagine with good speaker placement getting two sets of motion 2 (for the side and rear) will be more cost effective than two sets of fx but may sound better than getting only 1 set of fx. I think that's what I'll do. The room has vaulted ceiling so in ceiling speakers are out. For your center, I listened to the motion 30 and it was crisp and clear. I ordered a factory reconditioned from audio advisor in case you're looking. I wouldn't have considered the 40's at present pricing but I got a deal for them at the price of the 20's

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post #786 of 1026 Old 07-06-2014, 03:52 PM
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Interesting I was going to get a pair of motion fx or fx2 to replace my motion 10s which are in my rear.
I have ESLs for fronts and a theater for center.

Now I might just get a pair of helos and call it a day
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post #787 of 1026 Old 07-06-2014, 04:49 PM
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More and more movies I watch the more I realize the front 5 speakers are the most important in the system. Any speaker can do a quick zip or zing or helicopter rotor in the distance for a second or 2 in the rears and you won't tell a difference.


My original plan was to put the Helos in the rear surrounds, but the motion 2's are sitting freeform on stands next to chairs which I really don't like. I just have to figure out how to mount the M2's hanging from the ceiling. Not buying anything yet till all Atmos Receivers are released in fall, then I will buy the speakers with the receiver. I like the Electromotion IC's, but 2 sides and 4 ceilings would run almost $2500 for them. I like the fact that the Helos 12 have a tweeter stem that can be pointed at the listener.

Cool Beans.

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post #788 of 1026 Old 07-06-2014, 05:08 PM
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My room is kinda small for front wides or heights
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post #789 of 1026 Old 07-06-2014, 11:33 PM
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I ordered my speakers from audiophile liquidator. After ordering I read bad reviews of the seller, but info was very old. I did not have any problems, but I'm sure they are not an authorized seller.
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post #790 of 1026 Old 07-07-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
they're probably off for the holidays and the price dropped again to $724 each so I jumped on it before price went up. I'm officially an owner of Martin Logan speaker set. Now to find 4 speakers for the rear and find a good deal for the motion 30 for the center....and of course a new reciever that can power them. happy 4th to everyone

it says the motion 2 is discontinued but i'm thinking if i find them i can get away with pairing them with the motion 40 front and motion 30 center instead of buying the motion 4.
Congrats on the Motion 40s ... they're a great pair of speakers !!!

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Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
I was looking at the Martin Logan website and their recommended system (http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSeries/systems.php) for the motion 40 fronts and motion 30 center is to use the motion fx for the surrounds. What are people here using for 5.1 or 7.1 systems with similar front/center? Are people using the motion 2, 4 or fx? I'm also wondering if for a 15x30' room I can get almost as good home movie experience with a 5.1 as 7.1 with one of the above setups
I enjoy my 5.1 and have no desire for 7.1 :-)

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Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
thanks for the input. I'm still working on the room but it'll be two rows of seats only, about 4 seats each, with one row 12-13 feet back and another 14-15ft back. I imagine with good speaker placement getting two sets of motion 2 (for the side and rear) will be more cost effective than two sets of fx but may sound better than getting only 1 set of fx. I think that's what I'll do. The room has vaulted ceiling so in ceiling speakers are out. For your center, I listened to the motion 30 and it was crisp and clear. I ordered a factory reconditioned from audio advisor in case you're looking. I wouldn't have considered the 40's at present pricing but I got a deal for them at the price of the 20's
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Amazon is currently selling the predecessor of the Motion 15 bookshelf speaker (and as Simp1yamazn states in the following post, the changes were basically cosmetic), the LX16, at a great price:

NEW in dark cherry for $240 per speaker

USED in drk cherry for $412 for a pair

NEW in piano black for $299 per speaker

I've had a pair of the LX16s complimenting my Motion 40s and 30, and they all sound great together.

My son's 3.1 rig consists of a pair of Motion 15s and an LX16 serving as the center channel, and

I just ordered a pair of new LX16s in dark cherry to replace my DefTech SM45s in my exercise room.
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Compared to the Motion 2s and 4s, the LX16/Motion 15 bookshelf speakers are quite a bit more substantial, and at these prices, not much more expensive, if at all.

I was running an LX16 as my center channel for a while with my 40s in a 3.1 set up, and it did a fine job.

When first introduced to ML, my son and I listened to a pair of Motion 4s and a pair ofMotion 15s side by side ... the Motion 15 sounded so much fuller that I knew right away that I'd be buying James the Motion 15s.
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MartinLogan Motion 40s / 30 / LX16s
Marantz SR5007 / UD5007
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SVS PC13ultra

exercise room: MartinLogan LX16s / Dynamo700

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post #791 of 1026 Old 07-07-2014, 01:19 PM
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Very nice price. I wouldn't even really call it a predecessor as the Motion X16 are only a cosmetic change.
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post #792 of 1026 Old 07-07-2014, 01:28 PM
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Very nice price. I wouldn't even really call it a predecessor as the Motion X16 are only a cosmetic change.
Yes ! You are correct sir !

MartinLogan Motion 40s / 30 / LX16s
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post #793 of 1026 Old 07-07-2014, 07:14 PM
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Yes ! You are correct sir !

thanks for the advice, I'll certainly look into the lx16. 239 per speaker new also available from onecall.com which is an authorized dealer I believe. this seems like a pretty good deal considering the motion 4 is already 200 each.
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post #794 of 1026 Old 07-08-2014, 12:28 AM
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I have ESLs for fronts with a theater center and motion 10s for rears.
I am thinking about adding front heights are in ceiling good enough for that
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post #795 of 1026 Old 07-08-2014, 09:18 AM
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I have ESLs for fronts with a theater center and motion 10s for rears.
I am thinking about adding front heights are in ceiling good enough for that
I would say that, yes in-ceiling are good enough for that with the caveat that I would say virtually any speaker is good enough for that. I know plenty of people who disagree with me, but my personal opinion is that height speakers give you the lowest return on investment. There are two reasons I feel this way:

1. The human ears are not nearly as good at judging where sounds come from in the vertical plane as they are in the horizontal plane. Because of this, effects from height speakers in my experience do not nearly add as much to the listening experience as front wides or back surrounds can. Honestly, many times I could not tell a difference when they were turned on or off

2. My understanding is that height speaker set-ups use dolby pro logic iiz. What this means is that the receiver receives a standard 5.1 or 7.1 track and simply upconverts it to include height channels so effects are the receivers interpretations and benefits will likely be minimal.

Because of this, I think I personally would only consider adding height channels after I already have a 7.2/9.2 fully set-up and then only if I have the vertical space to really separate the height channels. Now, dolby atmos looks to eliminate my second point with their object based surroundsound format. That being said, atmos was really created for the large move theaters and I suspect the benefits for home use will be much lower and you would need to buy a new receiver to take advantage of it. Even if atmos does make an impact, my first point still stands.

Ok, these are all my opinions based on my personal experiences in designing, selling, and overseeing custom HT systems.

If you do decide to go for height speakers, I would actually suggest not using in-ceiling if at all possible. In-ceiling speakers obviously send the sound down to the floor. When this happens, many of the height benefits are lost, the volume of the speakers will be absorbed into the carpet, you could end up with some echo effects, and typically sound quality is lower for in-ceilings. If I were doing heights, I would probably use something somewhat directional, fairly small, and just mounted as high up as possible. Didn't someone use the motion 2's for heights a while back?
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post #796 of 1026 Old 07-08-2014, 10:02 AM
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Mmmm well I am only at the 5.1 mark because sides are not possible to my left there is a opening into another small room.

So behind my seats I have motion 10s slanted in at 90 degree from my mlp.

So to go 7.1 what you suggest
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post #797 of 1026 Old 07-08-2014, 08:59 PM
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+1 on 'Maz.
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post #798 of 1026 Old 07-10-2014, 07:21 AM
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Mmmm well I am only at the 5.1 mark because sides are not possible to my left there is a opening into another small room.

So behind my seats I have motion 10s slanted in at 90 degree from my mlp.

So to go 7.1 what you suggest
What do you mean behind you at 90 degrees? I would probably look for some front wides if 7.1 with surrounds and surround backs isn't an option. The LX16 would be a nice wide speaker if you have somewhere to place them or get speaker stands.

Is there an aspect of your system that you are unsatisfied with and are trying to fix?
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post #799 of 1026 Old 07-12-2014, 11:01 AM
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i'd like to ask those using their Martin Logan speakers in a dedicated home theater room what AV receiver are they using to power their speakers and if they are using a external amp. I didn't realize when I made my purchase that the motion 40's and 30 are 4ohm rated. I am also getting a pair of lx16 to complete the setup along w/ with my sub.
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post #800 of 1026 Old 07-12-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
i'd like to ask those using their Martin Logan speakers in a dedicated home theater room what AV receiver are they using to power their speakers and if they are using a external amp. I didn't realize when I made my purchase that the motion 40's and 30 are 4ohm rated. I am also getting a pair of lx16 to complete the setup along w/ with my sub.
Good call to focus on this. I installed Theos fronts and a Stage-X center several months ago. Did a bunch of research on the questions you're asking. Got a lot of conflicting advice from a number of smart folks.

I use a Pioneer VSX-1120k AVR as my hub. It's pretty capable, and specifically rated for either 6 ohm or 8 ohm usage. A number of resources I checked with said it would have zero issues pushing the 4 ohm ML's. Others were unsure. Others said don't even try.

But what tipped me to toward buying more power to drive the front 3 ML speakers was:

First, an ML tech explained that on my speakers, the actual challenge would dip down below 4 ohms to the 1.5 ohm range on certain frequency challenges. So at times, the 4 ohm challenge wasn't the actual challenge my AVR would meet, it was going to be significantly more than that.

Second, my VSX-1120 does everything I want and need it to do as a hub. Has all the right input and outputs and decoding capabilities and all the rest. I didn't want to have to replace it ahead of schedule because I asked it to do something it really wasn't designed to do.

Third, I have long speaker wire runs from my media closet to the front of the theater room where those 3 speakers sit. Each of the runs was about 90 feet. That adds to the power challenge.

And fourth, I didn't want to buy these new speakers, and then feel like I couldn't just let them rip without worrying about clipping the speakers or blowing out the AVR, or both.

So after another wave of research, I got an Emotiva XPA-3 to drive the front three speakers, and I let the VSX-1120 drive the remainder of the 5.1 speakers. It's been the right choice for my particular room and equipment. Good luck, and enjoy your new speakers BK!
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post #801 of 1026 Old 07-12-2014, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
i'd like to ask those using their Martin Logan speakers in a dedicated home theater room what AV receiver are they using to power their speakers and if they are using a external amp. I didn't realize when I made my purchase that the motion 40's and 30 are 4ohm rated. I am also getting a pair of lx16 to complete the setup along w/ with my sub.
I'm running a pair of Theos, Stage center and B&W CM9's for the rears all on a Denon 3313 with no issues.

Samsung 85" 4K, Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 with MartinLogan Theos, Stage, Motion 15, EM-R, Seaton Submersive F2, 5Denon AVR-X5200W, PS4 = SubSolar, Xbox1 = SubSolar0
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post #802 of 1026 Old 07-12-2014, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
i'd like to ask those using their Martin Logan speakers in a dedicated home theater room what AV receiver are they using to power their speakers and if they are using a external amp. I didn't realize when I made my purchase that the motion 40's and 30 are 4ohm rated. I am also getting a pair of lx16 to complete the setup along w/ with my sub.
I have a similar set up and have run the speakers on Denon 3313 and 4520, Pioneer sc-67, marantz avr6007 and 7007. I finally settled on the MM 8077 and AV8801 and have had ZERO issues driving those speakers with any of the amps listed above. I have played movies at reference level and have not heard any clipping to my knowledge and I am extremely sensitive to flaws in sound. I had talked with logan and Marantz extensively during the purchasing process and they both agreed it would be completely fine. Now if you had electrostats I would migrate to a 4 ohm stable amp as those are power hungry speakers and need power to truly unleash their sound capabilities (ex: Mcintosh, emotiva, parasound...). The motion line is a very efficient speaker and does not need a ton of power to drive. Good luck and hope that helps.

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60
Marantz AV8801 pre-pro / MM8077 amp
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Martin Logan Motion 60XT Fronts/40 Rears
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post #803 of 1026 Old 07-13-2014, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
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i'd like to ask those using their Martin Logan speakers in a dedicated home theater room what AV receiver are they using to power their speakers and if they are using a external amp. I didn't realize when I made my purchase that the motion 40's and 30 are 4ohm rated. I am also getting a pair of lx16 to complete the setup along w/ with my sub.
I've been running a Marantz SR5007 to power my ML Motion 40s/30/LX16s set up for a year and a half without any issues ... I have, however, read that my receiver might not be up to the task and might, as a result, go into "protect mode" in some circumstances. This hasn't happened even once for me. The Marantz SR5007 does, in the summer months, get kind of hot to the touch when I'm playing my iTunes content loudly.

So, as a step of preventative maintenance, I :

* run a Cool Components dual fan on top of the AVR in the summer months (70 degrees and up)

* designed a shelf in the armoire which I can pull out to give the AVR some more breathing room

* cross over to my sub @ 110hz ( which sounds fine - no issues with directionality of frequencies btw 80 - 110hz )

Maybe I don't need to do these things, but I'd hate to have it go into "protect mode" even once.

If and when we move to another house and into a "great room" type of environment, or sooner if "our ship comes in" as my dear wife might say, I'd like to get an amp to power the front 2 or 3 speakers ... especially if I hook up the two new LX16s I received last week for a 7.1 set up (right now those 2 new LX16s are in the exercise room).

But bottom line, the SR5007 has proved to be up to the task of driving my ML 40s/30/LX16 5.1 rig without a single hiccup. I listen to this system in the living room, adjacent dining room where the computer desk is ( the two rooms totaling 4,000 cu.ft. ), and even into the kitchen. So far, so good :-)

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MartinLogan Motion 40s / 30 / LX16s
Marantz SR5007 / UD5007
Emotiva XPA-3
SVS PC13ultra

exercise room: MartinLogan LX16s / Dynamo700

Last edited by TomC1315; 07-13-2014 at 12:44 PM.
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post #804 of 1026 Old 07-13-2014, 10:04 AM
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... the Marantz SR5007 does, in the summer months, get kind of hot to the touch when I'm playing my iTunes content loudly.

So, as a step of preventative maintenance, I :

* run a Cool Components dual fan on top of the AVR in the summer months (70 degrees and up)

* designed a shelf in the armoire which I can pull out to give the AVR some more breathing room

* cross over to my sub @ 110hz ( which sounds fine - no issues with directionality of frequencies btw 80 - 110hz )
^ Great cooling PM with the fan and movable shelf Tom.
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post #805 of 1026 Old 07-13-2014, 03:52 PM
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Eek! Amplifier questions! Ok, all I will say is that my denon avr-x4000 has been running my montis and motif x without problem for over a year, gets a little warm but never hot even when I'm really pushing it. It is my opinion that very few people will ever need more power than a mid or higher end avr will push. If volume is an issue, getting more efficient speakers is typically a better use of money than trying to find a 2000w amp.
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post #806 of 1026 Old 07-13-2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bronxkid View Post
i'd like to ask those using their Martin Logan speakers in a dedicated home theater room what AV receiver are they using to power their speakers and if they are using a external amp. I didn't realize when I made my purchase that the motion 40's and 30 are 4ohm rated. I am also getting a pair of lx16 to complete the setup along w/ with my sub.
Unless you're running a low end AVR (like maybe those $100 Denon's) or you have a huge room and listen LOUD all the time I wouldn't worry about it. The mid range and up Denon and Marantz stuff seems to work fine with 4ohm loads from some of my experience as long as the AVR can breathe adequately. Yamaha Aventage line is rated down to 2ohms, so they're probably worth looking at if you're still worried about it. The ML ESL's a little bit of a different story since they have crazy impedance swings (the ohm load goes lower the higher the frequency) and those need a slightly more robust amp section but in general the mid range and higher AVR's can drive them fine. I've ran my ML ESL's off an older higher end Marantz with no problems before I bought my Marantz MM9000 amp and really the only difference is it gets louder and dynamic bits have a tad more impact as far as sound quality is concerned.

My Home Theater/Video Gaming/HTPC/2 Channel rig (Mitsubishi, MartinLogan, Marantz, DIYMA, and others)

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post #807 of 1026 Old 07-13-2014, 04:14 PM
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thanks to everyone for their input. I feel much more relieved that I don't have to go out soon and spend $1000 on a receiver and another $500-1000 on an separate amp. I was going to get the denon avr-x4000 from their website (refurb) but with the new pioneer models out and the denon and Marantz models coming out soon I think I'll try running the ML speakers on a donated receiver I have (Yamaha rx-v3900) which seems capable. Then if I run into any problems, or I see I need features on the upcoming receivers, I'll buy one (probably that has option for adding a amp).

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post #808 of 1026 Old 07-13-2014, 06:15 PM
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Good idea. I doubt you'll feel the need to upgrade for power. I've run them on much less powerful receivers than my X4000. I only upgraded for audyssey and more features.
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post #809 of 1026 Old 07-15-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by TomC1315 View Post
Attachment 151481

Congrats on the Motion 40s ... they're a great pair of speakers !!!


I enjoy my 5.1 and have no desire for 7.1 :-)



Attachment 151465
Amazon is currently selling the predecessor of the Motion 15 bookshelf speaker (and as Simp1yamazn states in the following post, the changes were basically cosmetic), the LX16, at a great price:

NEW in dark cherry for $240 per speaker

USED in drk cherry for $412 for a pair

NEW in piano black for $299 per speaker

I've had a pair of the LX16s complimenting my Motion 40s and 30, and they all sound great together.

My son's 3.1 rig consists of a pair of Motion 15s and an LX16 serving as the center channel, and

I just ordered a pair of new LX16s in dark cherry to replace my DefTech SM45s in my exercise room.
[ATTACH]Attachment 151481[/ATTACH]

Compared to the Motion 2s and 4s, the LX16/Motion 15 bookshelf speakers are quite a bit more substantial, and at these prices, not much more expensive, if at all.

I was running an LX16 as my center channel for a while with my 40s in a 3.1 set up, and it did a fine job.

When first introduced to ML, my son and I listened to a pair of Motion 4s and a pair ofMotion 15s side by side ... the Motion 15 sounded so much fuller that I knew right away that I'd be buying James the Motion 15s.

I bought the LX16's for Wide channel speakers - they are excellent !
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Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
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post #810 of 1026 Old 07-15-2014, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mogrub View Post
If the Seller is actually Amazon (versus another seller operating on the Amazon site), then you'd have great buyer protection. Sounds like a good deal, but I'd bounce an email off of the AVS folks who are forum sponsors here, and see what they can do. Craig, are you listening?

I wasn't - but I am now. I love my Motion 40's - always call me first for a price !


Martin Logan has added some larger Motion Series speakers to the line up -
The Motion60 XT towers - http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSer...els/towers.php


The Motion50 XT center - http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSer...els/center.php


The Motion35 XT book shelf - http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSer.../bookshelf.php


Not available until sometime in August.

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
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