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post #841 of 1025 Old 07-31-2014, 01:59 PM
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And one more advantage to the 60XT is the vertical dispersion, which they list as 30 degrees instead of 80 degrees. One assumes that is mostly in the tweeter's range, and it makes sense since the tweeter is longer in the vertical plane and displays more line-source-like behavior because of it. Regardless, it is beneficial to avoid excessive "splash" off the ceiling and/or floor.

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post #842 of 1025 Old 07-31-2014, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
Craig it sounds like you don't have an output problem with the Motion 40. I subscribe to the idea that, all else equal, lots of piston area in a speaker equates to better sound due to lower distortion, because the system is just loafing along, or idling, to produce the output you request of it.

This is what attracts me to the Motion 60XT. Every single driver in the system is bigger and more capable. You've got about 50% more radiating area from the bottom up to the first crossover at 400 Hz, and 40% more radiating area from the midrange (400-2200 Hz). They also claim about 40% large radiating area in the tweeter. So, assuming the tonality and overall sound quality is basically the same as the Motion 40, I'm all for it. Hoping reviews soon will confirm this.

I expect the Motion 40 will play plenty loud for me, but can it do it with the ease and effortlessness of the 60XT? That is the question on my mind.
From an academic standpoint I would agree but I think higher sound quality from larger speakers is more than just lower distortion. THD in speakers is already pretty low so I doubt that's the main benefit. Larger speakers have larger cabinets which allow for better use of the bass/mid-range drivers so it can extend the FR. Larger cabinet also allows for larger drivers which will allow the designer more flexibility in FR and crossover design.

That being said, the benefits of a larger speaker will also rely heavily on what subwoofer you are using and how it's being crossed over with your mains. Most people cross their speakers at 80hz so really anything below 80hz is being routed away from your mains. Any real benefit from extending the low-end is then a moot point. That's why so many people suggest getting SMALLER mains and putting more of your money into your subs. There are a plethora of small towers and bookshelf speakers that are great performers above 80hz.

So, basically I agree that larger speakers will likely sound better, just for different reasons

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Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post
And one more advantage to the 60XT is the vertical dispersion, which they list as 30 degrees instead of 80 degrees. One assumes that is mostly in the tweeter's range, and it makes sense since the tweeter is longer in the vertical plane and displays more line-source-like behavior because of it. Regardless, it is beneficial to avoid excessive "splash" off the ceiling and/or floor.
Huh, didn't notice the difference in dispersion. Probably a benefit for an HT system though it may be seen as a drawback in certain environments.
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post #843 of 1025 Old 07-31-2014, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
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Craig it sounds like you don't have an output problem with the Motion 40. I subscribe to the idea that, all else equal, lots of piston area in a speaker equates to better sound due to lower distortion, because the system is just loafing along, or idling, to produce the output you request of it.

This is what attracts me to the Motion 60XT. Every single driver in the system is bigger and more capable. You've got about 50% more radiating area from the bottom up to the first crossover at 400 Hz, and 40% more radiating area from the midrange (400-2200 Hz). They also claim about 40% large radiating area in the tweeter. So, assuming the tonality and overall sound quality is basically the same as the Motion 40, I'm all for it. Hoping reviews soon will confirm this.

I expect the Motion 40 will play plenty loud for me, but can it do it with the ease and effortlessness of the 60XT? That is the question on my mind.
Ya, I would agree with bigger speakers / drivers being better ( to a point ). I've experienced using too small a speaker when I first got into home theater - that wasn't good.


A lot depends on your room size / and room volume. Anyway, I hope to hear these in person soon.

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post #844 of 1025 Old 07-31-2014, 03:58 PM
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It is nice to see Martin Logan expanding the Motion Series line - great speakers !!

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post #845 of 1025 Old 07-31-2014, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post
Sometimes it can be hard determining if distortion is coming from a recording, a speaker, or if the amp is running out of juice. Is there a specific scene that you can remember had distortion? If you an find a scene that does this, two easy ways of determining what's causing distortion. First, play it a lower volume and get your head near the speaker. If you still get distortion, it is more likely the recording or the speaker itself. speakers with wear or defects can cause distortion at volume as well so if you swap speakers and the distortion follows the speaker then you know it's not an amp or recording issue.
I have tried doing 2ch stereo and multi-ch stereo and the distortion is in all the speakers so I doubt it's the speaker. Prolly not the amp then either. At lower volumes (-15db) it is present as well. Thoughts?

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post #846 of 1025 Old 07-31-2014, 05:33 PM
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It's the recording then. Nothing you can do about it.

My Home Theater/Video Gaming/HTPC/2 Channel rig (Mitsubishi, MartinLogan, Marantz, DIYMA, and others)

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post #847 of 1025 Old 08-01-2014, 06:26 AM
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Is it present in all/most recordings that you play? Definitely not speakers if they all have distortion (or you have the worse luck of all time). If the distortion happens with most recordings then you can rule out bad recordings. At that point you just need to go methodically to rule out each individual part. When the system is powered on but nothing playing (movie or music paused) and you crank the volume do you get any noise or is it dead silent? If it is not silent then you can rule out a bad recording. From that point I'd disconnect everything and add pieces in one by one. Start with just the amp connect to the speakers, no preamp. Then add the connections one by one from the pre-amp to the amp, but leave the amp disconnected. Then add the amp without any sources plugged into it. Add source cables one by one, then plug in the sources one by one. Something will eventually cause the issue, just gotta be methodical.
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post #848 of 1025 Old 08-01-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post
Is it present in all/most recordings that you play? Definitely not speakers if they all have distortion (or you have the worse luck of all time). If the distortion happens with most recordings then you can rule out bad recordings. At that point you just need to go methodically to rule out each individual part. When the system is powered on but nothing playing (movie or music paused) and you crank the volume do you get any noise or is it dead silent? If it is not silent then you can rule out a bad recording. From that point I'd disconnect everything and add pieces in one by one. Start with just the amp connect to the speakers, no preamp. Then add the connections one by one from the pre-amp to the amp, but leave the amp disconnected. Then add the amp without any sources plugged into it. Add source cables one by one, then plug in the sources one by one. Something will eventually cause the issue, just gotta be methodical.
It occurs on 50-60% of movies but usually only one clip in the recording. Occurs only with voices when there is a large increase in voice volume (example: yelling). Large explosion/crash scenes do not seem to have any distortion. Occurs more in old recordings such as Air Force One.
If I turn up the volume with no source playing it is very quiet. I can hear some noise when close to the speakers but believe it is the noise floor (could be wrong). My new speakers arrive this Tuesday but would like to problem solve before I get those speakers. I can try unhooking everything but it's hard to illicit the problem if there is no noise other than the noise floor.

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post #849 of 1025 Old 08-01-2014, 05:05 PM
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That's really strange. Only thing now is start switching out pieces one at a time while playing that specific scene that causes distortion. Each pieces needs to be replaced individually, including interconnects, hdmi, digital coax, optical, etc. Do you have another amp or AVR you can swap out?
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post #850 of 1025 Old 08-01-2014, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post
That's really strange. Only thing now is start switching out pieces one at a time while playing that specific scene that causes distortion. Each pieces needs to be replaced individually, including interconnects, hdmi, digital coax, optical, etc. Do you have another amp or AVR you can swap out?
I think it's the recording because it happens so seldom and at low volumes.

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post #851 of 1025 Old 08-03-2014, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
It occurs on 50-60% of movies but usually only one clip in the recording. Occurs only with voices when there is a large increase in voice volume (example: yelling). Large explosion/crash scenes do not seem to have any distortion. Occurs more in old recordings such as Air Force One.
Do you have Dolby Volume engaged?
If it's the recording it should be a simple matter of putting the disc in another system OR posting the exact time here so others can check. Air Force One was a reference quality audio track back in the day and still is.
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post #852 of 1025 Old 08-03-2014, 01:13 PM
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How would the motion FXs do as front height or surround back speakers? Or would I be better off with 4s instead?
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post #853 of 1025 Old 08-04-2014, 05:25 AM
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Do you have Dolby Volume engaged?
If it's the recording it should be a simple matter of putting the disc in another system OR posting the exact time here so others can check. Air Force One was a reference quality audio track back in the day and still is.
I did have a volume processing engaged for a while but not anymore-has helped. I have replayed scenes on another system (tv speakers only) and same thing.

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post #854 of 1025 Old 08-04-2014, 11:11 AM
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How would the motion FXs do as front height or surround back speakers? Or would I be better off with 4s instead?
For height speakers I'd use ( and I AM using ) Motion 4's. From everything I've read height and wide speakers should be direct radiator type speakers.


For surround rear ( and side ) speakers I'd use ( and I AM using ) Motion FX speakers. They sound great.

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post #855 of 1025 Old 08-04-2014, 12:07 PM
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How would the motion FXs do as front height or surround back speakers? Or would I be better off with 4s instead?
I answered you just this AM in your standalone thread

I completely agree with Craig. Motion 4's as heights not FX's. My reason is exactly the same as Craig's but I elaborate in your thread. And I use them myself.

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post #856 of 1025 Old 08-05-2014, 09:53 AM
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For height speakers I'd use ( and I AM using ) Motion 4's. From everything I've read height and wide speakers should be direct radiator type speakers.


For surround rear ( and side ) speakers I'd use ( and I AM using ) Motion FX speakers. They sound great.

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I answered you just this AM in your standalone thread

I completely agree with Craig. Motion 4's as heights not FX's. My reason is exactly the same as Craig's but I elaborate in your thread. And I use them myself.
Thanks, appreciate the input. I think I'll likely get the 4's for the heights now and the FXs for the rear channels later unless I decide to get another set of towers for wides instead.
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post #857 of 1025 Old 08-05-2014, 10:14 AM
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I'm moving into a new house in mid September and upgrading to Dolby Atmos 7.1.4. Currently I have a pair of Theos and Stage for the LCR. My plan is to add two FX2 for the side surrounds and six of the EM-R in-ceilings (four for the "Voice of God" Atmos overheads and two for the back surrounds). Thoughts?

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post #858 of 1025 Old 08-05-2014, 03:01 PM
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I'm moving into a new house in mid September and upgrading to Dolby Atmos 7.1.4. Currently I have a pair of Theos and Stage for the LCR. My plan is to add two FX2 for the side surrounds and six of the EM-R in-ceilings (four for the "Voice of God" Atmos overheads and two for the back surrounds). Thoughts?

Sounds like a good plan. If I hadn't just installed my 11.2 set up, I'd be thinking about Atmos " Voice of God " speakers too. However, I refuse to go up into the attic for 24 months. Then I'll re-visit an Atmos upgrade. It was so hot last time I ran new wire up there last year, I think I lost 3 years off my life.

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post #859 of 1025 Old 08-05-2014, 03:51 PM
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Interestingly, "Voice of God" is translated to be Logos (I think actually "Word of God"), Martin Logan's first center channel speaker...

It's hard to love Martin Logans and 2.35:1 CIH at the same time...
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post #860 of 1025 Old 08-05-2014, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
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If I hadn't just installed my 11.2 set up, I'd be thinking about Atmos " Voice of God " speakers too. However, I refuse to go up into the attic for 24 months. Then I'll re-visit an Atmos upgrade. It was so hot last time I ran new wire up there last year, I think I lost 3 years off my life.
I'm more optimistic than you Craig. I lost 12 pounds sweating on my wiring project in the attic last year, but up until now (at least until I read your post) I assumed my longevity had not been compromised. Now I'm not so sure. I have noticed more grey hair since then ...


Every once in a while, quite inexplicably, things actually go according to plan.
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post #861 of 1025 Old 08-05-2014, 04:00 PM
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I'm more optimistic than you Craig. I lost 12 pounds sweating on my wiring project in the attic last year, but up until now (at least until I read your post) I assumed my longevity had not been compromised. Now I'm not so sure. I have noticed more grey hair since then ...

After that stint in the attic, I know how meatloaf feels @ 425F.


Anyway, I'm really enjoying my current 11.2 Martin Logan setup using NEO:X. Watched " The Lincoln Lawyer " last night - fun, good movie with an outstanding sound track. I can wait to upgrade to Atmos. Sometimes you just need to sit back, fire up the projector and receiver, put a Blu Ray on, and enjoy the show. I just spent a ton of $ and time last year ( black carpet, new electric screens, painted the theater darker, new Martin Logan Motion speakers all around, new Denon 4520, new Oppo 103 etc. ) - I'm happy for now !! The picture and sound are excellent !

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post #862 of 1025 Old 08-06-2014, 02:08 PM
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Just picked up another Martin logan Dynamo (original) to finish my all Martin Logan theater.

It has: Mosaic fronts, Fresco center, Fresco i side surrounds, ML-67 "installer series ceiling speaker" rear surrounds, and 2x Dynamos.

I'm quite pleased, it's my first all 7.1 all ML home theater. Now of course, none of these ML's are electrostats, or even the new folded motion (the ATF drivers are Radia drivers) but it sounds pretty dang good nonetheless.
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It's hard to love Martin Logans and 2.35:1 CIH at the same time...
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post #863 of 1025 Old 08-06-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
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I did have a volume processing engaged for a while but not anymore-has helped. I have replayed scenes on another system (tv speakers only) and same thing.
If you are getting the same distortion at lower levels on a second system, then it has to be the recording.

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post #864 of 1025 Old 08-07-2014, 07:43 AM
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After that stint in the attic, I know how meatloaf feels @ 425F.


Anyway, I'm really enjoying my current 11.2 Martin Logan setup using NEO:X. Watched " The Lincoln Lawyer " last night - fun, good movie with an outstanding sound track. I can wait to upgrade to Atmos. Sometimes you just need to sit back, fire up the projector and receiver, put a Blu Ray on, and enjoy the show. I just spent a ton of $ and time last year ( black carpet, new electric screens, painted the theater darker, new Martin Logan Motion speakers all around, new Denon 4520, new Oppo 103 etc. ) - I'm happy for now !! The picture and sound are excellent !
Psh 11.2 I'm still rockin my 3.0
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post #865 of 1025 Old 08-07-2014, 08:13 AM
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Hey guys/gals, I did not see a ML thread until after the fact or I would of posted this here. Click the link and let me know what you think. I can get these speakers for well under 1k.


Martin Logans Aerius I & Cinema CC
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post #866 of 1025 Old 08-07-2014, 08:24 AM
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Psh 11.2 I'm still rockin my 3.0
Then you should have been over to my house last night to experience Cloud Atlas's soundtrack in glorious 11.2 surround sound !

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post #867 of 1025 Old 08-07-2014, 10:34 AM
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Hey guys/gals, I did not see a ML thread until after the fact or I would of posted this here. Click the link and let me know what you think. I can get these speakers for well under 1k.


Martin Logans Aerius I & Cinema CC
I'm not so sure I'd go for them. They are pretty old and ML panels are considered a wear item. You should look into how much replacement panels cost from ML, typically pretty pricey.
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post #868 of 1025 Old 08-07-2014, 12:15 PM
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I'm not so sure I'd go for them. They are pretty old and ML panels are considered a wear item. You should look into how much replacement panels cost from ML, typically pretty pricey.
I can get them for 600.00. I am with you I think the panel replacement is the issue. I seen one on ebay for 300.00
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post #869 of 1025 Old 08-07-2014, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I can get them for 600.00. I am with you I think the panel replacement is the issue. I seen one on ebay for 300.00
Panel replacements used to be reasonably priced, but then ML said they weren't going to do them anymore, then they relented but increased the price 3x effectively not doing them anymore.

It's hard to love Martin Logans and 2.35:1 CIH at the same time...
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post #870 of 1025 Old 08-07-2014, 02:55 PM
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Well that is a bummer. I am still going to buy them anyway and hold on too. They have low hours on them.

To be honest I am not sure if the are the Aerius I or not. These have the 10" driver and adjustable cross over in the back. Does that sound like the Aerius I? I know the center is a cinema.

Edit* after further research the mains are SL3's not the Aerius I. Which is big upgrade. Lol it's been awhile...

Last edited by basshead81; 08-07-2014 at 07:58 PM.
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