Martin Logan Owners Thread - Page 70 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Oops. I didn't know how much it was at retail.
yea haha. If I do somehow get my hands on one, you don't think it's gonna be too much power?

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Old 02-22-2017, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Faezan Mob Odhwani View Post
yea haha. If I do somehow get my hands on one, you don't think it's gonna be too much power?

If it's the 'right' kind of power, I prefer 'ample' over just 'adequate'
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Old 02-23-2017, 08:45 AM
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Hello All



Just looking to get Martin Logan Electro Motion R Speakers for my atmos install. I currently have LCR Seaton Catalyst 12C and Surrounds as Sparks. I waited for some thing affordable from Seaton to do my atmos install, but have nothing as of now. So I decided to go with these. Can any one comment on this? I was told by a few to go with Monitor IDC in ceiling.



I would appreciate any advice.



Cheers


Is your ceiling flat? The EM-R woofer/tweeter is angled and not adjustable so if you have a flat ceiling they will not be firing straight down, which is what you want for Atmos.

I'm in the same situation as you. I have cathedral ceilings so originally planned on using the EM-R too. After looking closer at the angles of the speaker and my ceiling I decided it was too much of a compromise. So I have been looking at using something that is adjustable and pivots enough so they will be firing straight down.


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Old 02-23-2017, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jedimindcontrol View Post
Is your ceiling flat? The EM-R woofer/tweeter is angled and not adjustable so if you have a flat ceiling they will not be firing straight down, which is what you want for Atmos.

I'm in the same situation as you. I have cathedral ceilings so originally planned on using the EM-R too. After looking closer at the angles of the speaker and my ceiling I decided it was too much of a compromise. So I have been looking at using something that is adjustable and pivots enough so they will be firing straight down.


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My ceiling is flat and i was under the impression if it can pivot towards MLP will be a good option. I will then look for other options. I liked them as it would be a match to my Cat's that have a warm sound to it.

Cheers
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Faezan Mob Odhwani View Post
So I posted in the Motion owner thread before, but figured maybe I'd have better luck here. I'm planning on getting some ESLs and am wondering about power. I'm using a Marantz NR1606 as a pre and was looking at a few amp choices, but am willing to listen to other opinions and insight as well. The 3 I like are the MM7025 by Marantz, the Rotel 1572, and the Emotiva XPA-2. I really do want seperates because I will be running a subwoofer as well. I'd like to stick with around $1000 at the high point.


I would take the Marantz off your list. It does not offer much power (barely more than a good receiver) and is not 4 ohm stable. The EM-ESL is 6 ohms and can dip down to 2 ohms. So you should look at amps rated to at least 4 ohms.

The Rotel and Emotiva both have specs that will work with the ESLs. Have you listened to these combos? I would definitely try to audition them if possible. The transparency of these speakers make gear selection critical IMHO

Regarding power I will always take too much over not enough. Extra headroom is much better than clipping!


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Old 02-23-2017, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rramacha View Post
My ceiling is flat and i was under the impression if it can pivot towards MLP will be a good option. I will then look for other options. I liked them as it would be a match to my Cat's that have a warm sound to it.

Cheers
Everything I have read and been told points to ideally having the speaker perfectly flat and firing straight down. That is why many go with a true coaxial design for the overhead Atmos channels. But as with most things you will probably get different answers depending on who you ask lol
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jedimindcontrol View Post
Everything I have read and been told points to ideally having the speaker perfectly flat and firing straight down. That is why many go with a true coaxial design for the overhead Atmos channels. But as with most things you will probably get different answers depending on who you ask lol
My quest for atmos continues
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jedimindcontrol View Post
I would take the Marantz off your list. It does not offer much power (barely more than a good receiver) and is not 4 ohm stable. The EM-ESL is 6 ohms and can dip down to 2 ohms. So you should look at amps rated to at least 4 ohms.

The Rotel and Emotiva both have specs that will work with the ESLs. Have you listened to these combos? I would definitely try to audition them if possible. The transparency of these speakers make gear selection critical IMHO

Regarding power I will always take too much over not enough. Extra headroom is much better than clipping!


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Yea I think the Marantz is off my list. I'm trying to swing getting the RB1590, but like I said, that's a whole lot of power. At 8 ohms its at 350w. I'm going to guess that at 6 ohms we're close to 450 and at 4 ohms around 600. Unfortunately I have no way of testing the Emotiva.

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Old 02-23-2017, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimindcontrol View Post
I would take the Marantz off your list. It does not offer much power (barely more than a good receiver) and is not 4 ohm stable. The EM-ESL is 6 ohms and can dip down to 2 ohms. So you should look at amps rated to at least 4 ohms.

The Rotel and Emotiva both have specs that will work with the ESLs. Have you listened to these combos? I would definitely try to audition them if possible. The transparency of these speakers make gear selection critical IMHO

Regarding power I will always take too much over not enough. Extra headroom is much better than clipping!



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"The EM-ESL is 6 ohms and can dip down to 2 ohms"


less
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
"The EM-ESL is 6 ohms and can dip down to 2 ohms"


less
ok 1.6 ohms if you want to get picky
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faezan Mob Odhwani View Post
Yea I think the Marantz is off my list. I'm trying to swing getting the RB1590, but like I said, that's a whole lot of power. At 8 ohms its at 350w. I'm going to guess that at 6 ohms we're close to 450 and at 4 ohms around 600. Unfortunately I have no way of testing the Emotiva.
Those numbers are probably very close. So yes its totally overkill but that's why I like it lol. If you do go that route just use common sense with the volume knob. Look at it this way...you most likely won't have to upgrade the amp for a really long time
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faezan Mob Odhwani View Post
Yea I think the Marantz is off my list. I'm trying to swing getting the RB1590, but like I said, that's a whole lot of power. At 8 ohms its at 350w. I'm going to guess that at 6 ohms we're close to 450 and at 4 ohms around 600. Unfortunately I have no way of testing the Emotiva.
The RB1582 is more than enough amp for the EM-ESL if you cannot swing the RB1590. I used the RB990 with them (older version of the 1582) and it was a good match as far as the solid state amps I tried. It should come in right at your budget too!
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:34 PM
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The RB1582 is more than enough amp for the EM-ESL if you cannot swing the RB1590. I used the RB990 with them (older version of the 1582) and it was a good match as far as the solid state amps I tried. It should come in right at your budget too!

I forgot about that one. That should work fine too.


Continuous Power Output
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Frequency Response
10Hz - 100kHz ±0.5dB

S/N Ratio (IHF "A" Weighted)
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RCA: 26.5dB
XLR: 22.5dB
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimindcontrol View Post
Everything I have read and been told points to ideally having the speaker perfectly flat and firing straight down. That is why many go with a true coaxial design for the overhead Atmos channels. But as with most things you will probably get different answers depending on who you ask lol
And here's a different answer

Coaxials are indeed preferred, as at the short distances between MLP and overheads, the lobing of other designs is an issue. But something like the Electromotion R should work well enough.

Regardless of speaker design, recommendations and my own experience point to directing the overheard tweeters at the MLP as being ideal.
A Electromotion R could be mounted such that the tweeters achieved that, even if they are not adjustable, but that puts the onus on getting the location right and then mounting them correctly to achieve that outcome.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:50 PM
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Hi all - there's a guy selling the following items locally. What do you think of this setup for EM-ESL and Electromotion C2? Also how much would be a reasonable offer?

Reciver:
Marantz SR5009

Amplifiers:
Two Marantz MA700
One Marantz MA6100
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:16 AM
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Hi all - there's a guy selling the following items locally. What do you think of this setup for EM-ESL and Electromotion C2? Also how much would be a reasonable offer?

Reciver:
Marantz SR5009

Amplifiers:
Two Marantz MA700
One Marantz MA6100
I try to never pay more than 30% of MSRP for used equipment. For the right price that should be a good budget setup ($500-700).
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:20 AM
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I try to never pay more than 30% of MSRP for used equipment. For the right price that should be a good budget setup ($500-700).
Anything between $500-700 a good deal for the receiver and 3 amps? I know good deal is subjective but figured i'd get some input.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:28 AM
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Keep an eye in the classified section. Lots of great deals in there...

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Old 03-08-2017, 02:19 PM
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Decided against the 11As, doing measurements they were not going to work for my space so I got the 9As

Big jump from my little Motion 35XTs, will leave the same center channel due to the great dispersion plus it will timbre match and I use motion4s as rears which will change to the new Electromotion FX2s. Not too shabby for a 24 year old I remember just three years ago I thought I had the best system in the world with my little Pioneer Elite VSX-90 with the Andrew Jones 5.1 set up, I've come a long way!

System will be:
Anthem AVM 60 connected via balanced cables to my Theta Intrepid which is rated at 200w at 4ohms bi-wired

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Old 03-08-2017, 03:16 PM
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Decided against the 11As, doing measurements they were not going to work for my space so I got the 9As

Big jump from my little Motion 35XTs, will leave the same center channel due to the great dispersion plus it will timbre match and I use motion4s as rears which will change to the new Electromotion FX2s. Not too shabby for a 24 year old I remember just three years ago I thought I had the best system in the world with my little Pioneer Elite VSX-90 with the Andrew Jones 5.1 set up, I've come a long way!

System will be:
Anthem AVM 60 connected via balanced cables to my Theta Intrepid which is rated at 200w at 4ohms bi-wired


What size is your room? And post pics if you can.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:20 AM
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What size is your room? And post pics if you can.
Ignore my cat haha, but here are some pics! I sit about 15 ft away and I got them dialed in just right, what a sound stage! I can pin point where everything is and they're just so alive and revealing speakers. As they break in more, the mid bass has been coming to life. No complaints here! I'm in my living room currently(My fiance totally digs Hifi as long as I pay for it ) and it's an open floor plan with 12 ft ceilings. We are going to buy a home this year and I will have a dedicated space for these. They fill the room no problem and I have no echo issues either. Room is 16 deep by 14 wide but it opens up to the kitchen and computer area, etc.

Here's some pics:





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Old 03-09-2017, 12:23 PM
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Looks great.


For an idea try less toe in. You should be on the inner 1/3rd to the inner edge. For giggles, I'd suggest far far further into the room as the imaging, three dimensionality, depth, height too get way better. Sometimes width too.


There's way more to be had so enjoy.


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Old 03-09-2017, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Looks great.


For an idea try less toe in. You should be on the inner 1/3rd to the inner edge. For giggles, I'd suggest far far further into the room as the imaging, three dimensionality, depth, height too get way better. Sometimes width too.


There's way more to be had so enjoy.


Thanks,

I did the flashlight trick to get the inner 1/3 right where I sit and I got them just right for both. It is truly phenomenal, thanks for the advice!

Anthem/Theta Digital/MartinLogan Electrostats/Sony ES FPJ/
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Old 03-09-2017, 01:21 PM
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Thanks,

I did the flashlight trick to get the inner 1/3 right where I sit and I got them just right for both. It is truly phenomenal, thanks for the advice!
If, at some point, you find them a little too hot, that's the fix. A little less toe in. And you can adjust height cues by rake. However, it's really important that both sides are exactly the same. As close as you get to within a 1/10th of a degree.

And the easiest way is found in the tool department at Menards





Trumpet and coronet should be up there. The bell of the bass sax should be down there. Kick drum pretty much down there. Triangle up there. Taller vocalist up higher than short vocalist. Guitar below the voice. Should be able to tell who is sitting versus standing. And lord help ya if you have a bad recording. These will let you know.

Enjoy
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Old 03-09-2017, 03:45 PM
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If, at some point, you find them a little too hot, that's the fix. A little less toe in. And you can adjust height cues by rake. However, it's really important that both sides are exactly the same. As close as you get to within a 1/10th of a degree.

And the easiest way is found in the tool department at Menards





Trumpet and coronet should be up there. The bell of the bass sax should be down there. Kick drum pretty much down there. Triangle up there. Taller vocalist up higher than short vocalist. Guitar below the voice. Should be able to tell who is sitting versus standing. And lord help ya if you have a bad recording. These will let you know.

Enjoy
We don't have a Menard's but could you let me know the name of that tool? I did mess with them a bit of bath and forth swaying my head from left to right up down the whole shabang and I feel like I got them just right. Vocals are dead center and I do get the left right separation but also up and down and front and back soundstage!

OH man you aren't wrong about that! I'm currently using Spotify via PlayFi or my PS4 as a temporary source for music but I just signed up for Tidal and ordered a BlueSound Node 2 so I can stream MQA files and I have a Cambridge Audio CD player that I still haven't gotten around to connecting.

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Old 03-09-2017, 05:29 PM
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We don't have a Menard's but could you let me know the name of that tool? ...
Here's another relatively inexpensive option for adjusting ML rake angle... https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level...magnetic+level

For some reason, link keeps directing to Amazon.ca, but this device also available on domestic US Amazon site.

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Old 03-09-2017, 05:40 PM
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We don't have a Menard's but could you let me know the name of that tool? I did mess with them a bit of bath and forth swaying my head from left to right up down the whole shabang and I feel like I got them just right. Vocals are dead center and I do get the left right separation but also up and down and front and back soundstage!

OH man you aren't wrong about that! I'm currently using Spotify via PlayFi or my PS4 as a temporary source for music but I just signed up for Tidal and ordered a BlueSound Node 2 so I can stream MQA files and I have a Cambridge Audio CD player that I still haven't gotten around to connecting.

It's a home tool brand of Menards named Masterforce. I'm sure a Homo Depot or a Lowes or other large good big box home store would have an equivalent angle meter that's similar.

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...inStoreId=3312

The case is a magnet so it makes it real handy to attach to the perforated metal panels. Very handy to get the rake identical from side to side.

At the link is another very thorough HT reviewer who really took the time to get these set up correctly. I agree with much of what he had to say. It isn't easy to get all these have to offer as these are so different than setting traditional dynamic speakers due to the back wave available that can be used very creatively. I've been doing this with planar dipole ESLs since 1959.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...er-review.html

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...tml#post680654

True, different models, but other than the rear firing woofer, the theory is the same.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
Looks great. For an idea try less toe in. You should be on the inner 1/3rd to the inner edge. For giggles, I'd suggest far far further into the room as the imaging, three dimensionality, depth, height too get way better. Sometimes width too. There's way more to be had so enjoy.
I say I'm on the inner third but I'm really on the inner sliver, just enough toe that I start to light up the inner panel. And you are right about pulling them out some more. They are OK where the op has them but like you say there is a whole lot more left if you can pull them out some more.

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Old 03-10-2017, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sleepysurf View Post
Here's another relatively inexpensive option for adjusting ML rake angle... https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Level...magnetic+level

For some reason, link keeps directing to Amazon.ca, but this device also available on domestic US Amazon site.

That will work fine too.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
I say I'm on the inner third but I'm really on the inner sliver, just enough toe that I start to light up the inner panel. And you are right about pulling them out some more. They are OK where the op has them but like you say there is a whole lot more left if you can pull them out some more.

Yep, yep, yep. Just the inner edge. I'm not really lighting up any diaphragm. Just a touch. I'm sure not into the 'inner 1/3rd' as ML suggests. It's a tough balance between losing high end and image starting to collapse. Even a degree makes a huge difference. People look at me like I'm nuts (true) until I tell them to get in there and try it. My grandson said he thought he had vertigo first time he heard it. He said it was making him dizzy. By the third time or so, he got it. It made sense. His issue is that he's never been to a live unamplified concert. I'll get him to one one of these days or he'll run out of excuses.
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