SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 13 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: There are many surround speakers out there now, but the ones below would have to get my highest reco
Mirage OMD5 (or any other Mirage Omnipole) 23 23.00%
JBL P520WS / Infinity ES-250 / Infinity Classia C255ES (Dual-monopole for 4 channels from 2 speakers, but also Bipole & Dipole switchable) 4 4.00%
Axiom QS8 or QS4 (Unique Quadpole design) 26 26.00%
Paradigm ADP (Many models available with this design, where the tweeters run Dipole, but the woofers are Bipole) 18 18.00%
Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX (Single woofer, but the tweeters can switch to either Dipole or Bipole) 13 13.00%
Monitor Audio GXFX (6 drivers, including a ribbon. (Monopole / Dipole switchable) 11 11.00%
KEF 26/2DS (Dipole only, alas... but with two 6.5 inch side woofers and a front-firing 8 inch!!! ) 5 5.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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post #361 of 708 Old 01-10-2012, 11:21 AM
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I'm using Atlantic tech di/bi-poles (switchable) for SL/R and SBL/R and I love them. No problem at all. I am also using AT full main speakers for L/R and both Wides. I am going to add another pair of the di/bi-poles for Fr Height. I called AT and they said that di/bi-poles should be fine for height duty. AT puts di/bi-poles in a good sized cabinet, they are not afterthoughts.
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post #362 of 708 Old 01-10-2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post

So I finally mounted my new OMNI Direction mirage surrounds. OH MY GOD!

I was AMAZING - what a freakin differnece...maybe I was expecting greatness, but man it was so cool.

Now I REALLY want to add a rear surround...but thinking it is overkill. Specifically the OMD-R.


Remember, I am about 16 ft back from the screen and the sofa is about 6" off the rear wall.
Because my sitting area is so close to the wall what would happen if I mounted a rear surround, say one of the mirages?

1) not much effect, might add a little
2) it would ruin the side surrounds, since there is so little space and sound would compete
3) it would add greatness

Thanks again in advance!

Being so close to the wall negates any benefit of going for more than 5.1 (2 surrounds on the sides). Besides, the envelopment from those two surrounds should be MORE than enough to get the job done for your listening area. 7.1 is not an advisable option unless you have more distance between the couch and that wall. You're stuck with 2 side surrounds but it's not like it's a problem as 2 rear speaker is all that is needed.
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post #363 of 708 Old 01-10-2012, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

Being so close to the wall negates any benefit of going for more than 5.1 (2 surrounds on the sides). Besides, the envelopment from those two surrounds should be MORE than enough to get the job done for your listening area. 7.1 is not an advisable option unless you have more distance between the couch and that wall. You're stuck with 2 side surrounds but it's not like it's a problem as 2 rear speaker is all that is needed.

Yeah, that is what I thought...just got excited on how awesome it sounded and thought more might be better...thanks for setting me straight!
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post #364 of 708 Old 01-12-2012, 05:07 PM
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I've had these Boston Acoustic VRS dipoles for a long time and never been all that happy with them. They have decent tonal quality but I'm not sure I like the dipole aspect and the lack of bass. I've got NHT Classic 3 mains with ThreeC center and a bunch of subs. The Boston speakers I got because one is mounted along a wall that is also near the flight path of a dart board and they have metal grills (it has paid off many times!).

I'm thinking of taking some NHT SuperOnes I have laying around and make them the surround channel and change the dipoles to the surround rear (or should I do the opposite ?)

I wonder, can you make a dipole into a bipole by going in there and swapping the polarity on one of the drivers ?
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post #365 of 708 Old 01-12-2012, 06:58 PM
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Hoping someone can answer this...

The B&W DS3 surrounds are dipole/monopole selectable. But they have drivers arranged at somewhat opposing angles. From what I understand dipole = opposite drivers out of phase, bipole = opposite drivers in phase.

Does this mean that B&W's "monopole" mode is really bipole? Or am I not understanding the definition of bipole?

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speake...eries/DS3.html

Also, the only place I can mount speakers for a 5.1 system is behind my seating area, about 4' back and spread out a bit. Since surrounds in a 5.1 setup are supposed to be more coming from your sides and not behind you, my thinking is that bipole/dipole would be better back there to kind of diffuse it out to the sides more. Is that thinking in line with how these will work in my space?
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post #366 of 708 Old 01-13-2012, 03:41 AM
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Try reading the manual.
In Monopole, angled speakers are disabled.
In Di-pole, front tweeter is disabled.
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post #367 of 708 Old 01-13-2012, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackbuzz View Post

Try reading the manual.
In Monopole, angled speakers are disabled.
In Di-pole, front tweeter is disabled.

Thanks. I did read the manual, but zeroed in on the section describing the mode switch and it didn't mention that. After re-reading it I see they describe this in a different section. Thanks for pointing it out!
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post #368 of 708 Old 01-16-2012, 08:05 AM
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Looking for recommendations for a pair of either bipole or dipole to use as Rears and would maybe look to add a second set for sides at a later date.

Room size 15' x 15' x 8' with opening to dining room

Receiver Onkyo TX-SR604 90w x 7
Fronts Polk Monitor 70
Center Polk CS2

I have a new set of floor speaker stands designed for smaller satellite speakers that I would like to use if possible.
Budget is $300 for a pair.

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post #369 of 708 Old 01-16-2012, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyStreetRacer View Post

Looking for recommendations for a pair of either bipole or dipole to use as Rears and would maybe look to add a second set for sides at a later date.

Room size 15' x 15' x 8' with opening to dining room

Receiver Onkyo TX-SR604 90w x 7
Fronts Polk Monitor 70
Center Polk CS2

I have a new set of floor speaker stands designed for smaller satellite speakers that I would like to use if possible.
Budget is $300 for a pair.


Many, many options on this thread.

Polk make decent enough surrounds, but there's no need to match them and you can do way better.


If you want to use two speakers at rear or sides now, and perhaps stick with two in the future, I'd probably go with the Infinity or JBL dual-monopole switchables mentioned throughout the thread.

This will give you 4 surround channels (and 7.1) from 2 speakers, and it's surprisingly good.


On the other hand - having read so many great reports here & elsewhere about the Mirage omnipoles, I'd be having a very good look at them too.
By all accounts, they seem to be absolutely phenomenal as surround speakers.

The Mirage OMD5 is the best of the lot...
http://www.miragespeakers.com/na-en/...md-5-overview/

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=mi...=1741&bih=1173


In any case, have a good read through this thread. It should only take about 15 mins to scan through from the start.
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post #370 of 708 Old 01-16-2012, 03:54 PM
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Anybody here using Definitive Technology Surround Speaker SR-8080BP? There is no way for me to put speakers on the sides and would have to put them 4 to 5 feet behind me. Per website "Definitive's bipolar surrounds are designed for easy and unobtrusive placement in your room. Easy-to-use mounting plates are included for wall mounting. Definitive's BP surround speakers may be located on the sides or rear of the room (or both as in 6.1 and 7.1 channel installations) with excellent results."
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post #371 of 708 Old 01-16-2012, 04:21 PM
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Got a placement question for you guys:

Dipoles have an orientation. According to the diagram below, you should "point" them forward for side wall placement in a 5.1 or 7.1. If using dipole on the rear wall in a 7.1 setup, point them toward each other. I'm guessing this helps them from not creating additional nulls between the sides and rears.

But what about if you are using dipoles in a 5.1 setup mounted on the rear wall? I realize it is not recommended to place them this way, but I actually heard this today and it sounded better than monopoles in the same location.

My theory (based on not much at this point) is that you'd treat them back there like you would the sides and have them pointed outward instead of inward as indicated on this diagram. That way the "forward facing" driver would bounce sound along the side walls just like they would in the side configuration. Do you guys agree? Or is there something about the rear placement that better produces a null the way that it's shown in the diagram?

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post #372 of 708 Old 01-18-2012, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Many, many options on this thread.

Polk make decent enough surrounds, but there's no need to match them and you can do way better.


If you want to use two speakers at rear or sides now, and perhaps stick with two in the future, I'd probably go with the Infinity or JBL dual-monopole switchables mentioned throughout the thread.

This will give you 4 surround channels (and 7.1) from 2 speakers, and it's surprisingly good.


On the other hand - having read so many great reports here & elsewhere about the Mirage omnipoles, I'd be having a very good look at them too.
By all accounts, they seem to be absolutely phenomenal as surround speakers.

The Mirage OMD5 is the best of the lot...
http://www.miragespeakers.com/na-en/...md-5-overview/

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=mi...=1741&bih=1173


In any case, have a good read through this thread. It should only take about 15 mins to scan through from the start.



Thanks for the input. I have actually heard these speakers at a local shop and when they priced them, they were more expensive than Vanns sells them and so I didn't think twice, but now seeing the price at Vanns, I may just go this way.
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post #373 of 708 Old 01-22-2012, 01:13 PM
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I just received my Definitive Technology SR-8040BP pair and I replaced my rear Polk RM7650 satellites with those. Holy Molly! What a difference! The sound is so clean and the dispersion is so fantastic that the rear channel tracks are enveloping you without giving themselves away!

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post #374 of 708 Old 01-22-2012, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerrh View Post

Got a placement question for you guys:

Dipoles have an orientation. According to the diagram below, you should "point" them forward for side wall placement in a 5.1 or 7.1. If using dipole on the rear wall in a 7.1 setup, point them toward each other. I'm guessing this helps them from not creating additional nulls between the sides and rears.

But what about if you are using dipoles in a 5.1 setup mounted on the rear wall? I realize it is not recommended to place them this way, but I actually heard this today and it sounded better than monopoles in the same location.

My theory (based on not much at this point) is that you'd treat them back there like you would the sides and have them pointed outward instead of inward as indicated on this diagram. That way the "forward facing" driver would bounce sound along the side walls just like they would in the side configuration. Do you guys agree? Or is there something about the rear placement that better produces a null the way that it's shown in the diagram?


The arrows are not showing which way the audio will go, because the audio will be going in both direction.

The arrows are there to help you make sure you have the left and right speakers in the proper place, so in the manner that the tweeter work if you are using bi-pole or di-pole. Depending on which one you use, the tweeters will be in phase or out of phase.
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post #375 of 708 Old 01-23-2012, 04:54 AM
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Hi - I have a pair of bipole surrounds that I am planning to use as side surrounds. In figuring out placement, I discovered that I won't be able to have the centers of the two speakers at exactly the same spot across the room from each other.

This is due to the location of a window on the right side and an opening to a stairwell on the left, and the related limitations of stud placements.

I figure I can tweak the placement enough to get them within about 3 inches.

Question is, when I am sitting down enjoying my movie, will I notice that the center position is not exact in both ears?

FWIW, I plan to run a 7.1 setup using front height speakers rather than rear surrounds. Would I be better off putting these bipoles on the rear wall and going without side surrounds?

I love it when a [HT] plan comes together!
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post #376 of 708 Old 01-23-2012, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

The arrows are not showing which way the audio will go, because the audio will be going in both direction.

The arrows are there to help you make sure you have the left and right speakers in the proper place, so in the manner that the tweeter work if you are using bi-pole or di-pole. Depending on which one you use, the tweeters will be in phase or out of phase.

That's how I understood it as well, however there's still something more to it. They tell you in a 5.1 system, to point the arrows forward. If all you are doing is aligning phases, it seems as though they could point forward or rearward as long as they were pointing the same direction, right? Because you're just matching phases at that point. (Same thing if you have them along the rear wall in a 5.1 setup...seems like it wouldn't matter)

I understand how in a 7.1 system, it could matter so the sides don't inadvertently cancel out the rears where they are not supposed to, but it seems for a 5.1 it shouldn't matter.

I'm trying to understand why it would, so if anyone can shed some light please do!

I just set up a pair of B&W DS3s this weekend along my rear wall up high. I actually have the arrows pointed toward each other (like the image above) although, like I said, I am not sure it matters because the phases seem like they are aligned either way with only one set of speakers. But I actually have them in monopole mode for the moment. Seems to sound better. Could be because of the high placement or the fact that behind you is not recommended for dipoles, but they aren't that easy to locate unless there is a specific "thing" in the soundtrack trying to call your attention.
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post #377 of 708 Old 01-25-2012, 08:48 PM
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I have Paradigm Dipoles. I have a smaller room,1 side with wall,the other side open.. Would I be better off with bipoles or monopoles? I was actually looking into the DT SR 8040 bipoles or the OMD5's.. What do you guys think?
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post #378 of 708 Old 01-26-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerrh View Post

Got a placement question for you guys:

Dipoles have an orientation. According to the diagram below, you should "point" them forward for side wall placement in a 5.1 or 7.1. If using dipole on the rear wall in a 7.1 setup, point them toward each other. I'm guessing this helps them from not creating additional nulls between the sides and rears.

But what about if you are using dipoles in a 5.1 setup mounted on the rear wall? I realize it is not recommended to place them this way, but I actually heard this today and it sounded better than monopoles in the same location.

My theory (based on not much at this point) is that you'd treat them back there like you would the sides and have them pointed outward instead of inward as indicated on this diagram. That way the "forward facing" driver would bounce sound along the side walls just like they would in the side configuration. Do you guys agree? Or is there something about the rear placement that better produces a null the way that it's shown in the diagram?


I would not use dipoles in the rear -- period. Rears should be directs, like the mains.
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post #379 of 708 Old 01-26-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

I would not use dipoles in the rear -- period. Rears should be directs, like the mains.

I heard dipoles in Best Buy (same ones I ended up buying) mounted in the rear and they actually sounded good, however I think it was more due to their room shape now. These speakers actually have a dipole/monopole switch and in my room I actually prefer them in monopole mode. I like having the choice, but it looks like it is monopole for me after all. Probably due to what you are saying.
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post #380 of 708 Old 01-26-2012, 09:02 AM
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Are you talking about the Def tech bipoles?
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post #381 of 708 Old 01-26-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

Are you talking about the Def tech bipoles?

Nope, B&W DS3's.
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post #382 of 708 Old 01-26-2012, 10:02 AM
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My preference is having Hi-Def Bipolars in the rear surround, because they are not so direct sounding. Sound behind you in general hasno specific "focus" as your mind/ears are not focusing on sounds behind you. Hence these bipolars make it sound just like that. Not so much for the mains. The main sound should be as direct as possible. Hence I went for a CLR2002 main soundstage coupled with SR-B8040BP rear soundstage.
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post #383 of 708 Old 01-26-2012, 02:20 PM
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In my bedroom, my bed is on one end of the room by the rear wall. I am quite near the right side wall as well but on the left side wall, im a bit far by 6 feet. I cant move the bed since theres a door

a) I want to put a bipole surround on the left and right side wall despite the left wall being farther by 6 feet. Will this be ok?

b) I want to put another pair of bipole speakers on the rear wall despite my bed having no space between it and the wall AND the bipole speaker will be on the very top of the wall near the ceiling due to WAF (height around 9 feet)

My amp = denon 4311 (with audyssey XT32)

will this work? Thanks
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post #384 of 708 Old 01-26-2012, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

I have Paradigm Dipoles. I have a smaller room,1 side with wall,the other side open.. Would I be better off with bipoles or monopoles? I was actually looking into the DT SR 8040 bipoles or the OMD5's.. What do you guys think?

Hard to say without seeing it.

Very seldom are monopoles the best option for surrounds.
I've found that if you only have one pair to the sides and no rears, bipoles are too direct.
I'd probably either go for Mirage OMD5's or Axiom quadpoles, or consider going 7.1 with a pair of Infinity / JBL dual-monopoles.

Where are the speakers placed?
Have a good read through the thread and post a photo or diagram...
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post #385 of 708 Old 01-26-2012, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joms View Post

In my bedroom, my bed is on one end of the room by the rear wall. I am quite near the right side wall as well but on the left side wall, im a bit far by 6 feet. I cant move the bed since theres a door

a) I want to put a bipole surround on the left and right side wall despite the left wall being farther by 6 feet. Will this be ok?

b) I want to put another pair of bipole speakers on the rear wall despite my bed having no space between it and the wall AND the bipole speaker will be on the very top of the wall near the ceiling due to WAF (height around 9 feet)

My amp = denon 4311 (with audyssey XT32)

will this work? Thanks

That'll work fine, after the distances & EQs are set in the Denon.

I'd either go for dipole/bipole switchables, possibly switched to dipole for the sides and probably bipole for the rear.

Or perhaps seriously consider Mirage OMD's omnipoles all round, with Axiom quadpoles also worth a look.
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post #386 of 708 Old 01-28-2012, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

That'll work fine, after the distances & EQs are set in the Denon.

I'd either go for dipole/bipole switchables, possibly switched to dipole for the sides and probably bipole for the rear.

Or perhaps seriously consider Mirage OMD's omnipoles all round, with Axiom quadpoles also worth a look.

I don't think that is a good idea, depending where they are located, your talking about a high chance of phase Cancellation.
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post #387 of 708 Old 01-29-2012, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

I don't think that is a good idea, depending where they are located, your talking about a high chance of phase Cancellation.

I prefer to recommend dipole/bipole switchables, as you can switch to bipole if you run into any phase problems, or just don't care for the dipole effect.

But omnipoles or perhaps quadpoles are well worth looking into, as they offer wide dispersion without any chance of phase problems.
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post #388 of 708 Old 01-29-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

I prefer to recommend dipole/bipole switchables, as you can switch to bipole if you run into any phase problems, or just don't care for the dipole effect.

But omnipoles or perhaps quadpoles are well worth looking into, as they offer wide dispersion without any chance of phase problems.

I've been running di-poles, I haven't found a need to try out the bi-poles. I have (4) di/bi-pole switchables surrounds from Monitor Audio. I already know the rear do not have to match the fronts, but I love having to timbre match all the way around.
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post #389 of 708 Old 01-31-2012, 06:45 PM
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Toole says dipoles aren't needed anymore now that we have uncorrelated discrete surround channels.

For me, their sound field is too diffuse. And I don't like that my Paradigm dipoles radiate to the front of the room, too. At least not while I don't have treatment on the front wall. I don't need to hear side/rear cues coming from my front soundstage!

On a lark while EQing the sub today, I plugged the right surround ADP-170 dipole into the front-right channel. Ran a full range sweep in REW. Just like Toole said they do, the high frequencies were SEVERELY rolled off.

I will move the dipoles to the rear walls after I buy bipoles to swap in for side surrounds.

I think it's pretty telling when Paradigm, long a hold out for making only dipole surrounds and always quoting that dated THX article from the 90's, switched to bipoles in their new Series 7 Monitors!
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post #390 of 708 Old 01-31-2012, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

Toole says dipoles aren't needed anymore now that we have uncorrelated discrete surround channels.

For me, their sound field is too diffuse. And I don't like that my Paradigm dipoles radiate to the front of the room, too. At least not while I don't have treatment on the front wall. I don't need to hear side/rear cues coming from my front soundstage!

On a lark while EQing the sub today, I plugged the right surround ADP-170 dipole into the front-right channel. Ran a full range sweep in REW. Just like Toole said they do, the high frequencies were SEVERELY rolled off.

I will move the dipoles to the rear walls after I buy bipoles to swap in for side surrounds.

I think it's pretty telling when Paradigm, long a hold out for making only dipole surrounds and always quoting that dated THX article from the 90's, switched to bipoles in their new Series 7 Monitors!


Toole has a point. They're certainly rarely needed... yet are still often desired, as bipoles can often be too direct at the sides with 5.1.

Good point about not wanting surrounds bouncing off your front wall and hurting the soundstage.
Although I guess it really comes down to the room and how it reacts.

Always a good idea to test your surrounds as fronts to see how they measure up, as you've done.
Too many folks never do this.

Those ADP-170's are a seriously old-school dipole design, with next to no angling, and everything you hear is way off-axis.
I used to have surrounds like that and they were horrible.

A design like the Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX can be worthwhile, as the woofer faces forward (and is in phase), the angling of the tweeters isn't too severe, and they're dipole/bipole switchable.
Having a larger 6-inch woofer is also nice....

http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/bronze-bx/bxfx/
http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/silver-rx/rxfx/


Have you considered Axiom quadpoles or Mirage omnipoles?


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