SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 15 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: There are many surround speakers out there now, but the ones below would have to get my highest reco
Mirage OMD5 (or any other Mirage Omnipole) 23 22.33%
JBL P520WS / Infinity ES-250 / Infinity Classia C255ES (Dual-monopole for 4 channels from 2 speakers, but also Bipole & Dipole switchable) 4 3.88%
Axiom QS8 or QS4 (Unique Quadpole design) 28 27.18%
Paradigm ADP (Many models available with this design, where the tweeters run Dipole, but the woofers are Bipole) 18 17.48%
Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX (Single woofer, but the tweeters can switch to either Dipole or Bipole) 13 12.62%
Monitor Audio GXFX (6 drivers, including a ribbon. (Monopole / Dipole switchable) 11 10.68%
KEF 26/2DS (Dipole only, alas... but with two 6.5 inch side woofers and a front-firing 8 inch!!! ) 6 5.83%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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post #421 of 737 Old 02-26-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

Wow!!! Really? Flat? That is the first I heard that about Monitor Audio RX series. I usually hear how well they sounded or some say they are bright(but only with the RS).

What were they using as a source?

Flat, muted, muffled. Perhaps they were setup incorrectly. I tend to like brighter sounding speakers so if they are typically bright, I might have liked them. The source was a Arcam CD player and AVR, but I don't know which ones. (The AVR had a $4999 price tag.) The dealer had B&W CM9s, CM8s, and 802s in the same room and the Studio 60s in another room. I thought the CM8s and 9s sounded better than the RXs and I had them bring the Studios for comparison. To my ears, the Studios seemed to have the best soundfield and imaging.

As far as surrounds, I'll have to do in-home demos of the di-poles vs. monopoles. I can't exactly line up the di-poles with my main seating area, so monopoles might actually do better.

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post #422 of 737 Old 02-27-2012, 12:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

Wow!!! Really? Flat? That is the first I heard that about Monitor Audio RX series. I usually hear how well they sounded or some say they are bright(but only with the RS).

What were they using as a source?

Agreed. Very weird.

Surely just a flawed setup, methinks.
Monitor Audios have been relatively bright sounding, from what I've heard in the past.
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post #423 of 737 Old 02-27-2012, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cyde01 View Post

I'm looking to pick up a pair of bipolar speakers for surrounds around $300. I came across these, and I would be much obliged if anyone could point me in the right direction.

Right now I'm using Polk Monitors for fronts, but I plan on upgrading in the near future. I take it matching surrounds isn't terribly important, but do I at least want to match the same type of tweeter?

Polk FXi a4 (refurb) $270
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/r...ex.php?s=fxia4

DCM TP160BDP-B $280
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...P160BDP-B.html

Level TWO surrounds $260
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-tw...l-TWO-Surround

Def Tech SR-8080BP (refurb) $242
http://compare.ebay.com/like/1906354...Types&var=sbar

Premier Acoustic PA-6S $209
http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...3/product.html

Premier Acoustic PA-8S $290
http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...3/product.html


Well those PA-8S got my attention.
Dual 8 inch woofers on a surround speaker... Now THAT's more like it !!!
Pity they only have a single front-firing tweeter. I imagine they'd be fairly monopole in their imaging, but has anyone heard these?

The Polk Polk FXi a4 are ok, but the FXi a6 would be a much better bet.
Dipole/bipole switchable and with a 6.5 inch woofer...

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/r...?s=fxia4#fxia6

Have you read the last few pages of this thread?
The Mirage OMD-5 or Axiom quadpoles are also well worth considering.
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post #424 of 737 Old 03-01-2012, 08:23 AM
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Anyone have the DCM TP160BDP-B? If so, how is it?
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post #425 of 737 Old 03-01-2012, 01:54 PM
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Does anyone have experience with the Emotiva XRS-4.1? Seems like they discontinued the ERD's....I know, i'm late. lol.
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post #426 of 737 Old 03-01-2012, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by azula View Post

Does anyone have experience with the Emotiva XRS-4.1? Seems like they discontinued the ERD's....I know, i'm late. lol.

There is a review in Home theater magazine. It got a very good review. I am considering it also.
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post #427 of 737 Old 03-01-2012, 06:46 PM
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I am considering them also but since they are 4-6 ohm I was wondering if I could push them sufficiently with my SC-27 in addition to my Paradigms? Anyone has experience with them?
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post #428 of 737 Old 03-03-2012, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Well those PA-8S got my attention.
Dual 8 inch woofers on a surround speaker... Now THAT's more like it !!!
Pity they only have a single front-firing tweeter. I imagine they'd be fairly monopole in their imaging, but has anyone heard these?

The Polk Polk FXi a4 are ok, but the FXi a6 would be a much better bet.
Dipole/bipole switchable and with a 6.5 inch woofer...

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/r...?s=fxia4#fxia6

Have you read the last few pages of this thread?
The Mirage OMD-5 or Axiom quadpoles are also well worth considering.

I was considering the Axiom quads briefly, but they were outside of my budget. Also couldn't find any pairs used or refurbished. Ended up calling Polk and ordering a pair of refurbished FXi A6s for $318 shipped. It's a little more than I wanted to spend, but I rather get a decent pair now than a less expensive junk pair that would need to be swapped out.

Thanks for the feedback.
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post #429 of 737 Old 03-03-2012, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyde01 View Post

I was considering the Axiom quads briefly, but they were outside of my budget. Also couldn't find any pairs used or refurbished. Ended up calling Polk and ordering a pair of refurbished FXi A6s for $318 shipped. It's a little more than I wanted to spend, but I rather get a decent pair now than a less expensive junk pair that would need to be swapped out.

Thanks for the feedback.

No worries.

Sounds like you made the right choice, but just wondering if you considered the Mirage OMD-5 omnipoles ?
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post #430 of 737 Old 03-03-2012, 10:13 PM
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Just wondering if anybody has used the in-ceiling Sonance VP65R SUR for surround and what they thinkg of them
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post #431 of 737 Old 03-04-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

No worries.

Sounds like you made the right choice, but just wondering if you considered the Mirage OMD-5 omnipoles ?

I'm contemplating ordering those. I just got the OMD 15's and The OMD C1 should be showing up weds.. I'm just wondering if the OMD 5's are going to be enough speaker..
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post #432 of 737 Old 03-04-2012, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

I'm contemplating ordering those. I just got the OMD 15's and The OMD C1 should be showing up weds.. I'm just wondering if the OMD 5's are going to be enough speaker..

For surrounds, I would say they'd be just enough - especially if you have 2 pairs in 7.1.

That said, it'd be great if Mirage made one with a 6.5 inch or even an 8 inch woofer.



Has anyone compared the OMD-5 to their smaller speakers?
How did they fair?
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post #433 of 737 Old 03-05-2012, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

For surrounds, I would say they'd be just enough - especially if you have 2 pairs in 7.1.

That said, it'd be great if Mirage made one with a 6.5 inch or even an 8 inch woofer.



Has anyone compared the OMD-5 to their smaller speakers?
How did they fair?

Haggis,

I currently have the JBL HLS610s & center up front and am considering 4 OMD-5s for surround duty. Should this work or should I get all mirage speakers? I currently have the Optimus LXII dipoles but never mounted due to size.
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post #434 of 737 Old 03-05-2012, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levy07 View Post

Haggis,

I currently have the JBL HLS610s & center up front and am considering 4 OMD-5s for surround duty. Should this work or should I get all mirage speakers? I currently have the Optimus LXII dipoles but never mounted due to size.

The JBL seem OK. If you're happy enough with them, I'd stick with them for now and go for the four OMD-5s for surrounds.

When they arrive, give three a try as fronts to see how they compare to the JBLs.

It's not a fair comparison, as the JBLs have larger woofers and are better suited to front speakers - but it'll still be very educational.

I'm willing to bet you'll find the OMD-5 smoother and less harsh.
That said, I'd personally stay away from Mirages for the front trio, as I'm not a fan of diffuse sound at the front. For surrounds, however, it's just what you want.

If you keep them JBLs as fronts, having a different brand like the Mirages as surrounds will be just fine. Or you may find you want to replace the JBLs with something else anyway.

For front speakers, I'm a huge fan of larger woofers in a 2-way arrangement, be it bookshelf or floorstanding.
For the record, I have three VAF Research DC-X at the front and I absolutely love them. I've auditioned a LOT of speakers over the years, and I can't imagine I'll ever replace these.

If I was only able to buy bookshelves, I'd probably consider a 2-way with at least a 7-inch woofer or preferably larger. JBL make them, as do Paradigm and others...

Let us know how you go!
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post #435 of 737 Old 03-06-2012, 10:12 AM
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Gentlemen,I lied.. I ordered the OMDR's instead.. I'm still breaking in the OMD 15's,but they sound really good. They aren't not as diffuse as you would think. They are very clear,nice sound stage and I was surprised by the bass.. It sounds like my sub is on with good music.. I'm only about 40 hrs in break in,so they should only get better..
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post #436 of 737 Old 03-06-2012, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Have you read the last few pages of this thread?
The Mirage OMD-5 or Axiom quadpoles are also well worth considering.

Yes. It's my opinion that if you are buying surround speakers for a typical sized living room or modestly sized theater room (under 2500cuft) that the Mirage Omnipolar speakers or Axiom Quadpoles are bar-none, the very best surrounds speaker options available at just about any price.

I am planning to use the Mirage Omnipolar design for my future home theater when I move out of my condo and buy a house. The Axiom Quadpoles will also be a very strong consideration.
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post #437 of 737 Old 03-07-2012, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

Yes. It's my opinion that if you are buying surround speakers for a typical sized living room or modestly sized theater room (under 2500cuft) that the Mirage Omnipolar speakers or Axiom Quadpoles are bar-none, the very best surrounds speaker options available at just about any price.

I am planning to use the Mirage Omnipolar design for my future home theater when I move out of my condo and buy a house. The Axiom Quadpoles will also be a very strong consideration.

Both are great, unique designs, but I my vote would probably go to the Mirages.

Has anyone had a chance to compare them?
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post #438 of 737 Old 03-07-2012, 03:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

Gentlemen,I lied.. I ordered the OMDR's instead.. I'm still breaking in the OMD 15's,but they sound really good. They aren't not as diffuse as you would think. They are very clear,nice sound stage and I was surprised by the bass.. It sounds like my sub is on with good music.. I'm only about 40 hrs in break in,so they should only get better..

I guess the OMD-15 would be a little less diffuse than the OMD-5 due to the front firing woofers.

It looks like the OMD-R is basically a bipole, yes?
Pretty sure it'd be noticeably less diffuse than the OMD-5.




I reckon the U-L-T-I-M-A-T-E surround speaker would have....

1. Omnipole design for tweeter and midrange.

2. Two sets of omnipole tweeter and midrange drivers at each side, angled out.

3. At least 5.25" midrange drivers.

4. One or even two 8 inch woofers (either top and bottom or angled out to the sides).

5. A vented design for cleaner bass.

6. Dipole / bipole / dual-monopole switchable (for four surround channels from two speakers, as with the Infinity/JBL design).

7. Dipole mode would affect only the tweeters, but leave the midrange & woofers in phase.



Now, that is pretty ultimate.... !

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post #439 of 737 Old 03-07-2012, 08:16 AM
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^^^so when is that releasing and by whom?

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post #440 of 737 Old 03-07-2012, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

No worries.

Sounds like you made the right choice, but just wondering if you considered the Mirage OMD-5 omnipoles ?

Speakers arrived today, and Polk messed up by sending me two identical surrounds. They were very professional, apologetic and offered to replace the mistake with a brand new pair of FXi A6s. They were a bit too bulky for my taste, so I'm getting a refund and going with the OMD-5s instead. So it worked out in my favor.

Didn't really get a good feel for the FXi A6s since they couldn't be properly set up. After reading more about the OMD-5s, they seem like the best choice for me and would work well in either room I decide to dedicate a home theater in the new house.

I appreciate that nudge in the right direction.
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post #441 of 737 Old 03-07-2012, 06:55 PM
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This a very informative thread, Electric.(I'm glad it's here) I just started to think about surrounds recently, and am torn on the subject of direct vs 'ambient' surround speakers.

A good friend, and avowed audiophile, has recently argued with me that movie producers deliberately mix with direct sound in mind. Therefore rendering this whole 'ambient' representation invalid and inaccurate.

What do you think, in regards to 'direct' surrounds? (Or should I start my own thread?)

Thanks...

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post #442 of 737 Old 03-07-2012, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquisonic View Post

This a very informative thread, Electric.(I'm glad it's here) I just started to think about surrounds recently, and am torn on the subject of direct vs 'ambient' surround speakers.

A good friend, and avowed audiophile, has recently argued with me that movie producers deliberately mix with direct sound in mind. Therefore rendering this whole 'ambient' representation invalid and inaccurate.

What do you think, in regards to 'direct' surrounds? (Or should I start my own thread?)

Thanks...

With my old set up, monopoles worked great as surrounds with a sofa against the wall. I set them on shelves 3 feet above listening position and pointed them inward. Got some decent reflection off the back wall and a nice ambient effect. Since they were a good distance above the ear, they didn't sound too direct. What are the dimensions of your room? If you can mount directs higher and farther away from listening position, they will work very well. Keep them from firing directly into your ear and not too close to your seat.

The direct firing surrounds will move to the rear position and OMD5s will take their place as side surrounds in the new house.

Old set up:
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post #443 of 737 Old 03-07-2012, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquisonic View Post

A good friend, and avowed audiophile, has recently argued with me that movie producers deliberately mix with direct sound in mind. Therefore rendering this whole 'ambient' representation invalid and inaccurate.

They also intend their soundtracks to be heard in an auditorium with 20 surround speakers and maybe 25ft to the closest speaker. In an environment like that, the sound has space to radiate. I have never found surround material hot or distracting in a commercial theatre.
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post #444 of 737 Old 03-08-2012, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bing View Post

They also intend their soundtracks to be heard in an auditorium with 20 surround speakers and maybe 25ft to the closest speaker. In an environment like that, the sound has space to radiate. I have never found surround material hot or distracting in a commercial theatre.

Pretty much what I was going to say!

I once suggested to a professional cinema soundmixer that commercial and mixing theatres would be better off with multiple bipole-type speakers around the auditorium, rather than multiple point-source speakers. He agreed wholeheartedly.

I've heard of non-theatrical mixing studios using direct front-firers for surround monitoring, but the the next time I go to a big mixing theatre with a single pair of bookshelf speakers up the back, I'll let you know!

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post #445 of 737 Old 03-10-2012, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post


I reckon the U-L-T-I-M-A-T-E surround speaker would have....

1. Omnipole design for tweeter and midrange.

2. Two sets of omnipole tweeter and midrange drivers at each side, angled out.

3. At least 5.25" midrange drivers.

4. One or even two 8 inch woofers (either top and bottom or angled out to the sides).

5. A vented design for cleaner bass.

6. Dipole / bipole / dual-monopole switchable (for four surround channels from two speakers, as with the Infinity/JBL design).

7. Dipole mode would affect only the tweeters, but leave the midrange & woofers in phase.



Now, that is pretty ultimate.... !


That would be quite a speaker! But possibly too tall in the 8" 3-way version.

I've approached a local Australian speaker builder (Adelaide Speakers) to custom build a pair for dipoles for me. It's sad but none of the local manufacturers have dipoles in the their catalog, and stuff from overseas is either too expensive locally (Paradigm ADP3 - $4000AUD), or too expensive to ship (Axiom - $1200AUD landed with stands). My requirements go something like:
  • Half hexagon shaped bass reflex cabinet (as viewed from top down)
  • Two tweeters, one in each angled section
  • One 6.5" mid-range/woofer facing listener
  • External switch to toggle between tweeters out of phase to in phase

Using very high quality SB Acoustics drivers for the mid range and ribbons for tweeters, this ticks all the boxes for me. Just need to wait for my LCR's to arrive from Adelaide Speakers next week before going ahead with it.


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post #446 of 737 Old 03-10-2012, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradenko View Post

That would be quite a speaker! But possibly too tall in the 8" 3-way version.

I've approached a local Australian speaker builder (Adelaide Speakers) to custom build a pair for dipoles for me. It's sad but none of the local manufacturers have dipoles in the their catalog, and stuff from overseas is either too expensive locally (Paradigm ADP3 - $4000AUD), or too expensive to ship (Axiom - $1200AUD landed with stands). My requirements go something like:
  • Half hexagon shaped bass reflex cabinet (as viewed from top down)
  • Two tweeters, one in each angled section
  • One 6.5" mid-range/woofer facing listener
  • External switch to toggle between tweeters out of phase to in phase

Using very high quality SB Acoustics drivers for the mid range and ribbons for tweeters, this ticks all the boxes for me. Just need to wait for my LCR's to arrive from Adelaide Speakers next week before going ahead with it.

Haven't heard of Adelaide Speakers. They have quite a serious of lineup of offerings there... but a bit crazy that they don't do bipole/dipoles, as you say.

What you're suggesting sounds good, and very similar to the Monitor Audio RXFX
I wonder how the cost would compare?
It should be easy enough to throw in dual-monopole switching too, if that suits you.

I guess they can add it to their range after this!
Good to have a local option available...
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post #447 of 737 Old 03-11-2012, 03:04 AM
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Electric_Haggis,

Adelaide Speakers is a bit of a hidden gem. As a VAF owner I'm sure you can appreciate that city knows how to make speakers

I took a closer look at the RXFX, yes the layout is similar to that. I modelled it after the Emotive ERD-1's and its shared among some of the Paradigms too. The RXFX retails for $750USD so it probably sells for double that in Australia. I was quoted around ~$900 for the custom dipoles, less $100 if domes rather than ribbons are used for tweeters. Considering the quality of the components I think thats a fair price.

I considered allowing for dual-monopole, but really that would mean two 6.5" drivers to be effective, which would increase cabinet size and cost. It's not likely to be a feature I would use so I left it out.

But hey, now you know where to go if you want your dream 3-way 8" dipoles built


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post #448 of 737 Old 03-11-2012, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gradenko View Post

Electric_Haggis,

Adelaide Speakers is a bit of a hidden gem. As a VAF owner I'm sure you can appreciate that city knows how to make speakers

I took a closer look at the RXFX, yes the layout is similar to that. I modelled it after the Emotive ERD-1's and its shared among some of the Paradigms too. The RXFX retails for $750USD so it probably sells for double that in Australia. I was quoted around ~$900 for the custom dipoles, less $100 if domes rather than ribbons are used for tweeters. Considering the quality of the components I think thats a fair price.

I considered allowing for dual-monopole, but really that would mean two 6.5" drivers to be effective, which would increase cabinet size and cost. It's not likely to be a feature I would use so I left it out.

But hey, now you know where to go if you want your dream 3-way 8" dipoles built


Sounds good.
Be sure to keep us posted and send pics when you've got 'em!


What will their efficiency and frequency response be? Will they be ported?
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post #449 of 737 Old 03-11-2012, 07:09 PM
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Electric_Haggis, will do! I'll let you know of all the details when I get them.
Yes, cabinet will be ported.


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post #450 of 737 Old 03-22-2012, 07:17 PM
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After reading this thread I just placed order for a pair of omd5s for my side surrounds.

They will be used in a (smallish) dedicated HT/music listening room, roughly 12x22x7.5
I can be fairly flexible about the placement.

How high should I place them?

I currently run a pair of ascend 170se (direct radiators) for side surround. They are positioned slightly behind of MLP and vertically aligned with the front stage speakers with tweeters approx at ear level.
Should I place the OMD-5s higher? Or vertical placement is not as important for omnipolars?

Any feedback is much appreciated.
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