SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 19 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: There are many surround speakers out there now, but the ones below would have to get my highest reco
Mirage OMD5 (or any other Mirage Omnipole) 24 22.22%
JBL P520WS / Infinity ES-250 / Infinity Classia C255ES (Dual-monopole for 4 channels from 2 speakers, but also Bipole & Dipole switchable) 5 4.63%
Axiom QS8 or QS4 (Unique Quadpole design) 28 25.93%
Paradigm ADP (Many models available with this design, where the tweeters run Dipole, but the woofers are Bipole) 19 17.59%
Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX (Single woofer, but the tweeters can switch to either Dipole or Bipole) 14 12.96%
Monitor Audio GXFX (6 drivers, including a ribbon. (Monopole / Dipole switchable) 12 11.11%
KEF 26/2DS (Dipole only, alas... but with two 6.5 inch side woofers and a front-firing 8 inch!!! ) 6 5.56%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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post #541 of 747 Old 04-17-2013, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey all.

Having recently moved house, I'm now in a situation where I need a new pair of rear-surrounds for my 7.0 setup.

(See my signature & gear below)

Currently, I'm making do with my trusty Infinity ES-250's in dual-monopole mode, but what would really make the surrounds sing is a pair of white Mirage OS3-SAT omnipoles (angles outwards on the rear bookshelf).

The problem is that Mirage have been taken over by Jamo and they're no longer making them.

The other problem is that I'm in Australia and the local distributor never bothered bringing in anything higher that the NanoSat.

There's nothing on eBay.
Might anyone know where I can go in the US that might still stock them and can ship to Australia?
Alternatively, maybe someone has a used pair they'd like to sell?

Thanks in advance!


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post #542 of 747 Old 05-05-2013, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Hey all.

Having recently moved house, I'm now in a situation where I need a new pair of rear-surrounds for my 7.0 setup.

(See my signature & gear below)

Currently, I'm making do with my trusty Infinity ES-250's in dual-monopole mode, but what would really make the surrounds sing is a pair of white Mirage OS3-SAT omnipoles (angles outwards on the rear bookshelf).

The problem is that Mirage have been taken over by Jamo and they're no longer making them.

The other problem is that I'm in Australia and the local distributor never bothered bringing in anything higher that the NanoSat.

There's nothing on eBay.
Might anyone know where I can go in the US that might still stock them and can ship to Australia?
Alternatively, maybe someone has a used pair they'd like to sell?

Thanks in advance!

Crutchfield has them online but I'm not sure where they ship to. Check it out.

Crutchfield OMD-5
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post #543 of 747 Old 06-10-2013, 03:13 PM
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Hello,

I'm new to this Dipole and bipole stuff. When i built my HT i bought all Monitor Audio speakers. I am running them in Dipole right now. Is it me or does it seems like it's hard to tell where the surround sound is coming from? I was playing a star wars movie during the pod races and thought I would be able to clearly tell when the surround went from left, rear to right and I never once felt that.

I need to switch it to Bipole and see if it matters or not. Just the way I have them mounted it's going to be a PIA to do it!

Just curious if this is why I am not sensing that left to back to right feeling, or right, rear to left, etc.
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post #544 of 747 Old 06-10-2013, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad711 View Post

Hello,

I'm new to this Dipole and bipole stuff. When i built my HT i bought all Monitor Audio speakers. I am running them in Dipole right now. Is it me or does it seems like it's hard to tell where the surround sound is coming from? I was playing a star wars movie during the pod races and thought I would be able to clearly tell when the surround went from left, rear to right and I never once felt that.

I need to switch it to Bipole and see if it matters or not. Just the way I have them mounted it's going to be a PIA to do it!

Just curious if this is why I am not sensing that left to back to right feeling, or right, rear to left, etc.

If you have them in dipole mode, they'll be noticeably more diffuse.

But placement makes a huge difference.
How / where are they mounted, relative to your seat?


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post #545 of 747 Old 06-10-2013, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad711 View Post

Hello,

I'm new to this Dipole and bipole stuff. When i built my HT i bought all Monitor Audio speakers. I am running them in Dipole right now. Is it me or does it seems like it's hard to tell where the surround sound is coming from? I was playing a star wars movie during the pod races and thought I would be able to clearly tell when the surround went from left, rear to right and I never once felt that.

I need to switch it to Bipole and see if it matters or not. Just the way I have them mounted it's going to be a PIA to do it!

Just curious if this is why I am not sensing that left to back to right feeling, or right, rear to left, etc.


I have all Monitor Audio all the way around too, and I have my surrounds set to Di-pole.

I have to admit, it does seem cool to know where the speakers are and when the audio shift from one speaker to the other, but that effect is not what you want.

You want to be surrounded/encompassed with the audio and NOT be able to point out where the speakers are when the lights are out and you are watching a movie.

In your statement, you say it’s hard to tell where the surrounds are coming from, well that is a good thing, and how it should be. I too questions this, and sometimes goto each speaker to make sure they are on, but I am surrounded with audio, and that is how it should be.

An example, in a movie scene, when the rain is falling, you want to think it’s raining everywhere, and not from the left back corner where that speaker is located.
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post #546 of 747 Old 06-11-2013, 05:14 AM
 
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Here are a couple of relatively new switchable surround options:

1. Aperion Audio Verus Surround .::. dipole/bipole



Specs:
• Weight: 13.0 lbs
• Frequency response: (+/- 3dB) 90Hz to 18,000Hz; (+/- 6dB) 80Hz to 20,000Hz
• Impedance: 6 Ohms
• Sensitivity: Bipole: 88dB; Dipole: 78dB
• Recommended power: 20 - 200 Watts
• Tweeter: Dual 1" Audiophile-grade Custom Aperion ASR Tweeters
• Woofer: Dual 4.25" Aperion PhaseSync Drivers
• Driver configuration: 2-Way
• Enclosure type: 1" HDF, Ported
• Dimensions: 9.5" H x 13" W x 7" D

Product page: http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/verus-home-theater-speakers/verus-surround-dipole-bipole-speaker


2. SVSound Ultra Surround .::. dipole/bipole/dual channel



Specs:
• Rated bandwidth: 58Hz - 32kHz (± 3dB)
• Nominal impedance: 8 ohms
• Sensitivity: 87dB (2.83V @ 1 meter full-space, 300Hz - 3kHz)
• Recommended amplifier power: 20 - 250 Watts
• Dimensions (HxWxD): 14" x 12.3" x 5.4", 35.6 x 31.2 x 13.7 cm
• Weight: 18 lbs., 8.1 kgs
• 1" tweeter features FEA-optimized diffuser and aluminum dome
• 5.25" woofer features composite glass-fiber cone, aluminum shorting ring, cast aluminum basket and vented voice coil former
• Dual isolated crossover networks allows for bipole, dipole or unique Duet mode
• Tweeter to woofer crossover: 2 kHz

Product page: http://www.svsound.com/speakers/ultra-series/ultra-surround#.UbcJiBaBK2x
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post #547 of 747 Old 06-11-2013, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

If you have them in dipole mode, they'll be noticeably more diffuse.

But placement makes a huge difference.
How / where are they mounted, relative to your seat?

Here is a short video of where they are located. The surrounds are directly left of right of my seat and the rears are between 5-6 feet behind me. Room is 18 L and 15 W. I'd say the surrounds and rears are higher up then what I would prefer but the house was prewired when I had it built and back then I didn't know surrounds should be at head level. They are about 4-5 foot above head level.

Video

Thanks for that info Hamp568, I see what you mean. The rain statement really makes sense. Maybe I will keep it the way I have it then. I just wanted to make sure that it was working as intended!
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post #548 of 747 Old 06-12-2013, 12:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Clicked on the video, but it doesn't open - says "Video not found"


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post #549 of 747 Old 07-02-2013, 09:55 AM
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MonoPole, Bi-Pole, DiPole Speaket Type and Placement???

I'm looking to upgrade my Current 20 year old Surround Speakers to dual BiPoleDiPole from Polk, Monitor Audio, or Other but wasn't sure if my room set up would allow for.
I listen to 50% Music / 50% Movies.
Room Dims24’ Long x 12’ Wide x 8’ Height.
The listening position is against the entire long back wall on sectional sofa / recliner

It is my understanding BiPoles Surrounds should be behind you / DiPoles Surrounds should be on the side of your listening position.
In my case the DiPoles could be mounted on the sidewall but near the rear wall - Will this be a Problem? Please any comments or advice???

What mounting and speaker type would be preferred based on these options:
Option 1. Dipole Speakers mounted on side wall near corners in line with listeners?
Option 2: Monopole Speakers mounted in corners of room firing straight out?
Option 3: BiPole Type mounted on Side Wall or rear Wall but not behind the listeners but rather above?

Speaker Surround Placement.docx 143k .docx file
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post #550 of 747 Old 07-08-2013, 12:36 PM
 
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Can you move the couch a little off the back wall. Being right against the wall is going to be pretty tough. You won't really have much room for dipole/bipole. The whole point of dipoles is to use the wall to disperse the sound,Bipoles work the same way,but I think they are more forgiving. I'd put bipoles up 2-3 ft up on the side walls. On the back wall up above you is an option,but again,they will be right over you.
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post #551 of 747 Old 08-08-2013, 07:33 AM
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I am trying to decide if I should place my monopole surround speakers in the back corners of my media room or centered on the back wall behind the couch.

These are the speakers:




This is the room setup and dimensions:

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post #552 of 747 Old 08-08-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleishher View Post

I am trying to decide if I should place my monopole surround speakers in the back corners of my media room or centered on the back wall behind the couch.

These are the speakers:




This is the room setup and dimensions:


Looks like a 5.1 configuration. I'd go with Placement B.

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post #553 of 747 Old 08-08-2013, 10:46 AM
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I am hearing more and more that if the rear monopole speakers are placed on the back wall they will fire directly at the front wall causing weirdness. Placement on the sides or in the corners would be more ideal.
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post #554 of 747 Old 08-08-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleishher View Post

I am hearing more and more that if the rear monopole speakers are placed on the back wall they will fire directly at the front wall causing weirdness. Placement on the sides or in the corners would be more ideal.

You could certainly try them temporarily both ways to see which position sounds best in your less than optimal listening space. Though, are you sure those are strictly monopole surrounds? They look more like omni-polar designs: Front firing tweeter and midrange are in-phase with the woofers out of phase. What make and model are they?

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #555 of 747 Old 08-08-2013, 11:06 AM
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Great idea. The thing is, my house is being built right now and we are in the pre-wire phase. I would like to have the wires behind the walls coming out in exactly the proper place. Too expensive to run two additional wires to have both areas wired for testing out both positions.
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post #556 of 747 Old 08-08-2013, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleishher View Post

Great idea. The thing is, my house is being built right now and we are in the pre-wire phase. I would like to have the wires behind the walls coming out in exactly the proper place. Too expensive to run two additional wires to have both areas wired for testing out both positions.

Just tack some wires up and slap the speakers temporarily into place. Then whichever position sounds better to you, would be where you permanently ran your speaker wire.

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post #557 of 747 Old 08-08-2013, 01:59 PM
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Hi guys. Which one is better for surrounds speakers. Energy rc 10 or energy rc r?

Energy RC 70 fronts
Energy RC LCR center
Energy RC LCR surrounds
Rythmik LV12R and Mirage Omni 12 subwoofers
Denon 2112CI
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post #558 of 747 Old 08-09-2013, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleishher View Post

Great idea. The thing is, my house is being built right now and we are in the pre-wire phase. I would like to have the wires behind the walls coming out in exactly the proper place. Too expensive to run two additional wires to have both areas wired for testing out both positions.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Wire up both locations now. If (when) you decide to go 7.1 in the future, you're sorted wink.gif

Back to your original question, if those are truly direct radiating monopoles then position B would be best.


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post #559 of 747 Old 08-15-2013, 04:28 PM
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Hi posting here instead of the wrong thread.

I've got a tricky HT/Lounge room in our new house and I'm struggling to work out the best place for the rear and side surrounds. I've googled and googled, read a lot of things.

The sides are Monitor Audio FXI Silver bipole speakers. I think they can also be set as dipole.
The rears are Monopole bookshelf speakers.

The complication is more with the sides than the rears.

As you can see in the diagrams below there is a built in bookshelf on the back wall. This is ideal for the placement of the rear surrounds. I can basically put them on a shelf at the desired height and placement and either in against the back wall or lined up the front edge (I can experiment).

The sides are a bit harder. I had them on the sides in the old house at the recommended 2-3 feet above head height and they worked well (a real sense of wrap around sound).

In the new house the 2 options are:
1) At the sides (bipole), however due to windows (SR) and a sliding door (SL) the lowest the speakers (bottom of the speaker) is 2.1m (7 feet). This is higher than the recommended (my calcs show 1.6 to 1.9m).

There is a reasonable distance from the primary seating positions to them but I do have concerns that it will sound like everything is above you?

From what I've read bipoles should be in this position, though ideally lower down on stands, but the wife won't allow it.

2) At the rear corners (bipole). I can put them at the recommended heights here but they will actually be behind the rears then and I'm concerned about weird sound reflections.

My thinking is option 1. If so should the rears be at the same height or lower?

Any and all advice much appreciated.

I'll be using the new Yamaha A3030 to help EQ all of this so that may help a little.




Regards

Byron
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post #560 of 747 Old 08-16-2013, 02:53 PM
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Further digging shows that option 1 is probably best.

The next question is dipole vs bipole. The fxi are in bipole mode by default and that's how I used them before. Reading this thread and elsewhere I gather bipole is the correct setup, though I do see a lot of variation. I'd try dipole but their is no manual and the fxis simply have a 2 pairs of pos/neg jacks with little wires between them. Is it just a matter of crossing this wires over to put it in dipole mode? I'd have to experiment to find out which way around it is.

Thanks

Byron
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post #561 of 747 Old 09-30-2013, 12:19 AM
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Hi forum members,

Recently i've relocated to a smaller room. I've setup the front 3 speakers but i'm not so sure about my PSB IMAGE S5 Bipole surrounds. My seating position at my ears is 1 ft from the back wall. i was wondering which would be a better option....

1. Install the Bipole surrounds on the side wall of my listening postion. In this installation the side of the Bipole speaker will touch the edge of the meeting of the side wall and back wall. so the surround will be exactly at the corner facing me at 90 degrees.

or...

2. Install the Bipole surrounds on the back wall. ? If you ask me to choose the 2nd option then how far apart the bipole speakers be ? the width of the room is 9 ft 3 inches and i sit right in the center.

Thanks in advance... :-)

Rana

Thanks,

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post #562 of 747 Old 10-13-2013, 10:26 PM
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My 5.1 system uses bipole speakers for the surrounds. If I go to a 7.1 system and add rear speakers should they be bipole as well or direct radiating? The seating position is 5 - 6 feet in front of the rear wall. I suspect the bipole would work best but I haven't heard a 7.1 setup and I don't know exactly what signal is carried in the rear. Is there actual directional steering so that certain sounds appear only in the rears and not in the sides or the fronts?
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post #563 of 747 Old 10-13-2013, 11:36 PM
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omnipole or dipole. But 100% NOT direct radiating.
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post #564 of 747 Old 10-13-2013, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen1254 View Post

My 5.1 system uses bipole speakers for the surrounds. If I go to a 7.1 system and add rear speakers should they be bipole as well or direct radiating? The seating position is 5 - 6 feet in front of the rear wall. I suspect the bipole would work best but I haven't heard a 7.1 setup and I don't know exactly what signal is carried in the rear. Is there actual directional steering so that certain sounds appear only in the rears and not in the sides or the fronts?

Yes there is, whether it's a proper 7.1 mix or you apply Dolby ProLogic IIx to a 5.1 mix.

And yes, they should be bipoles at the rear too - ideally the same speakers as the sides.

If anything, it's usually worth having dipole / bipole switchables at the sides at least, so you have the option to experiment and see what gives you the best diffusion & blending.

Have a good read through this thread, though.
Omnipoles and quadpoles can also be excellent options.


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post #565 of 747 Old 10-28-2013, 04:23 PM
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Edit wrong topic

Yamaha rxv373

Ascend acoustics cbm 340se mains
Ascend acoustics 340se center
Ascend acoustics 170se rear SS

Rythmik lv12r
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post #566 of 747 Old 10-30-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

Wow, i find that quite interesting now because everyone was saying dipoles are best....regardless......
wonder where this leaves me?????

Actually, matching monopoles may end up being the best solution for surrounds if and when object based surround formats are delivered to the home. All the ambient and x-y-z axis location cues are in the mix itself. Dipoles, and perhaps bipoles, will probably smear the soundfield. The speakers from front to back (and ceiling) will also need to timbre match. Gone are the days of advice stating that it doesn't matter. I've heard Atmos and it surely does.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #567 of 747 Old 10-30-2013, 10:32 AM
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I am using B&W CCM 684 in-ceiling speakers as surround speakers in a 5.1 system with B&W CCM 818 as LCR. The room is about 20 x 15 with 8 ft ceilings. I am wondering what I am missing by not having a bipole / dipole speakers?
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post #568 of 747 Old 11-04-2013, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Actually, matching monopoles may end up being the best solution for surrounds if and when object based surround formats are delivered to the home. All the ambient and x-y-z axis location cues are in the mix itself. Dipoles, and perhaps bipoles, will probably smear the soundfield. The speakers from front to back (and ceiling) will also need to timbre match. Gone are the days of advice stating that it doesn't matter. I've heard Atmos and it surely does.

Very good point.

Dipoles with Atmos wouldn't be a good idea.

But bipoles?
I guess it would depend how many speakers you choose to have, relative to the space you want to cover.

For example, if you chose to have a single pair of surrounds for your side walls (rather than a bank of several), then bipoles would still provide a wider sweet spot and more even coverage than regular front-firing speakers.


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post #569 of 747 Old 11-04-2013, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by deeda View Post

I am using B&W CCM 684 in-ceiling speakers as surround speakers in a 5.1 system with B&W CCM 818 as LCR. The room is about 20 x 15 with 8 ft ceilings. I am wondering what I am missing by not having a bipole / dipole speakers?

In short - a bigger, more even spread of sound and a wider sweet spot, wherever you're seated.

That said, consider 7.1 as well.

All 5.1 mixes upconvert brilliantly to 7.1 and you'll get the above benefits, plus more three-dimensional sound-staging and panning.


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post #570 of 747 Old 11-04-2013, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Very good point.

Dipoles with Atmos wouldn't be a good idea.

But bipoles?
I guess it would depend how many speakers you choose to have, relative to the space you want to cover.

For example, if you chose to have a single pair of surrounds for your side walls (rather than a bank of several), then bipoles would still provide a wider sweet spot and more even coverage than regular front-firing speakers.

Here's the rub, in order for object based positional 3D audio to be effective... you will need more than the traditional one pair of side and rear surrounds (and then the amount of ceiling speakers would probably need to mirror at least the amount of side surrounds going off of typical Auro3D and Atmos layouts). Speaker manufacturers are going to love this! biggrin.gif

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