SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 24 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: There are many surround speakers out there now, but the ones below would have to get my highest reco
Mirage OMD5 (or any other Mirage Omnipole) 26 21.85%
JBL P520WS / Infinity ES-250 / Infinity Classia C255ES (Dual-monopole for 4 channels from 2 speakers, but also Bipole & Dipole switchable) 8 6.72%
Axiom QS8 or QS4 (Unique Quadpole design) 32 26.89%
Paradigm ADP (Many models available with this design, where the tweeters run Dipole, but the woofers are Bipole) 20 16.81%
Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX (Single woofer, but the tweeters can switch to either Dipole or Bipole) 14 11.76%
Monitor Audio GXFX (6 drivers, including a ribbon. (Monopole / Dipole switchable) 13 10.92%
KEF 26/2DS (Dipole only, alas... but with two 6.5 inch side woofers and a front-firing 8 inch!!! ) 7 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll

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post #691 of 790 Old 06-30-2014, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
I appreciate all the insight. I do want to keep my RC line, so I wanted to know which out of those speakers that you mentioned would best for the four in ceiling speakers that the atoms setup would require. What about the placement too. I saw a diagram where the fronts ceiling speakers were above the main fronts and another where they were above the wides. Then the rear ceilings were right above the listener and in another pic they were above the rear surrounds. What is your take on that, and which of those speakers that you mentioned would timbre match the best. Thanks again
Def Tech UIW RCS II in-ceiling speakers would be a close approximation of the Energy RC line. You need four.

So, then I would still use your current Energy surrounds for the sides and back wall surrounds in either bipole or monopole mode, but not dipole mode. I'm still mulling over how best to proceed with the front screen wall. If you can squeeze an acoustic screen in there... that would be best.

We're still not sure exactly where the top surrounds should optimally be located. Dolby is supposed to have more details in a big August event prior to the CEDIA convention. However, what we DO know is that they are not placed directly above the front mains or back surrounds like some DTS Neo:X layouts. It's as clear as mud.

Just be patient like the rest of us.

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post #692 of 790 Old 06-30-2014, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
I appreciate all the insight. I do want to keep my RC line, so I wanted to know which out of those speakers that you mentioned would best for the four in ceiling speakers that the atoms setup would require. What about the placement too. I saw a diagram where the fronts ceiling speakers were above the main fronts and another where they were above the wides. Then the rear ceilings were right above the listener and in another pic they were above the rear surrounds. What is your take on that, and which of those speakers that you mentioned would timbre match the best. Thanks again
Also I took a look at the triads, their specs have a minimum frequency of 70 doesn't it have to be at least 40 like you mentioned for an optimal Atmos setup?
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post #693 of 790 Old 06-30-2014, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
Also I took a look at the triads, their specs have a minimum frequency of 70 doesn't it have to be at least 40 like you mentioned for an optimal Atmos setup?
I should have clarified. Dolby recommends surrounds down to 40 Hz, but if your theater does not meet that specification some Atmos processors (manufacturer dependent) can compensate with surround speaker bass management and dedicated subwoofer outputs aside from the LFE output.

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post #694 of 790 Old 07-01-2014, 12:42 AM
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That makes sense. So would you still take the Triads over the Def Techs for my setup or since the Def Techs are close to what I already have, then go with those? As far as the acoustic screen, what would be the benefit, if I can put the front's next to the screen and the front wides there too? I don't know if 18-20 inches would be enough space for a false wall, and what do I do with my front wides? if they are going to be outside of the false wall, what is the main benefit? I'm just asking because I really don't know. I really appreciate the help.
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post #695 of 790 Old 07-01-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
That makes sense. So would you still take the Triads over the Def Techs for my setup or since the Def Techs are close to what I already have, then go with those? As far as the acoustic screen, what would be the benefit, if I can put the front's next to the screen and the front wides there too? I don't know if 18-20 inches would be enough space for a false wall, and what do I do with my front wides? if they are going to be outside of the false wall, what is the main benefit? I'm just asking because I really don't know. I really appreciate the help.
I'm off to an appointment. Not leaving you hanging. Will be back this evening.

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post #696 of 790 Old 07-01-2014, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
That makes sense. So would you still take the Triads over the Def Techs for my setup or since the Def Techs are close to what I already have, then go with those? As far as the acoustic screen, what would be the benefit, if I can put the front's next to the screen and the front wides there too? I don't know if 18-20 inches would be enough space for a false wall, and what do I do with my front wides? if they are going to be outside of the false wall, what is the main benefit? I'm just asking because I really don't know. I really appreciate the help.
For one thing, an acoustically transparent screen allows you to place the speakers directly behind the material, just like a commercial theater. This locks the picture with the sound rather than having the sound of the center come from below the action or the left and rights off to the sides of the screen. It's the best thing you can possibly do as it is the premium speaker setup in a theater.




Given that, using the RC-70's behind the screen... you may be pushing things a bit given their large size. If you sell your Energy's and go with Triad Silver LCR in-walls or in-room's behind an AT screen... you could easily pull it off (someone made a 14" deep false wall -- total depth of 12" decking with stud framing and screen frame mounting standoffs -- and used larger Triad Gold LCR in-room's and two medium subs behind the screen with no problem - see image above). If the cost of the Triad's happen to fall outside your budget (I don't know the latest retail price-- check the Triad speaker thread or contact AVS's sales staff for a quote), you could go with the Def Techs I mentioned.

The Triads would definitely be a big step up in sound quality.

You would size your screen up to your seating distance... I doubt it would cover the entire width of your room. This is a handy calculator for 16x9 screens. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html

Then you would place front wide side surrounds on the side walls. They usually sit a little bit between the traditional side surrounds (perhaps slightly closer to the screen wall than the side surrounds) and your front screen wall speakers and are angled to fire towards your primary listening space. They fill in the sonic gap between those two speaker positions.

Again, we should know more precise speaker locations for Atmos fairly soon.

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post #697 of 790 Old 07-07-2014, 05:38 PM
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So, is there any links or diagrams for ideal set up for HOME ATMOS?

Thanks!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

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post #698 of 790 Old 07-07-2014, 05:58 PM
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So, is there any links or diagrams for ideal set up for HOME ATMOS?

Thanks!
Not yet. Whatever has been released doesn't really help. They're just general sketches, no specifics.

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post #699 of 790 Old 07-07-2014, 07:10 PM
 
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So, is there any links or diagrams for ideal set up for HOME ATMOS?

Thanks!
This Audioholics article (which I know Dan has some issues with) gives the general configurations:

Dolby Atmos For Home Theater Explained


A set up diagram is posted here and discussed by the DIY crew. It looks pretty specific to me.

Design Challenge - Ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos


The diagram was originally posted by AVR guru jdsmoothie, so I presume it's lifted from the owner's manual of one of the upcoming (Denon?) Atmos enabled AVR's.

The 'Official' 2014 Denon "S Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
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post #700 of 790 Old 07-07-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
This Audioholics article (which I know Dan has some issues with) gives the general configurations:

Dolby Atmos For Home Theater Explained


A set up diagram is posted here and discussed by the DIY crew. It looks pretty specific to me.

Design Challenge - Ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos


The diagram was originally posted by AVR guru jdsmoothie, so I presume it's lifted from the owner's manual of one of the upcoming (Denon?) Atmos enabled AVR's.

The 'Official' 2014 Denon "S Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

I wouldn't call that diagram specific enough if you're designing a theater from scratch and maybe paying someone to create blueprints. A lot of people need more than that to go on. They haven't even laid out the speaker recommendations yet (just those compromised all-in-ones). Maybe in August... maybe at CEDIA... who knows for certain??

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post #701 of 790 Old 07-08-2014, 08:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I wouldn't call that diagram specific enough if you're designing a theater from scratch and maybe paying someone to create blueprints. A lot of people need more than that to go on.
Well it's 100% better than nothing and I would call it specific enough. In my line of work, if a tech agency sent me a trainee CAD operator that couldn't interpret that diagram, I'd send them back the next day.

Honestly, what more could one need to successfully lay out the speakers? The diagram shows the alignment of the speakers from the front to rear based on the position of the mains, and a range of acceptable angles of declination from the main listening position. Having a range of acceptable values is no different to the recommended 5.1 and 7.1 speaker layouts published by Dolby (and others) for years. Indeed, the fact that there are a range of acceptable values tells me that a level of precision beyond that is not required for proper height/top speaker positioning.

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They haven't even laid out the speaker recommendations yet (just those compromised all-in-ones). Maybe in August... maybe at CEDIA... who knows for certain??
I'm aware of that thanks, but @thebland didn't ask about speaker recommendations.
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post #702 of 790 Old 07-09-2014, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

I'm aware of that thanks, but @thebland didn't ask about speaker recommendations.
I have all Quested direct radiators. 7.5 bed and 6 speakers for heights. At this point, I think I am going to set up all for AUro and hope it will work with Atmos as the Datasat processor can use Auro to upmix.

I'll place front heights up at the front, above the screen, tipping down to the main listening area and side heights on either side of the main listening area and rear heights up and above the surround rears but angled down to the main listening area.

I suspect this should be pretty close for Atmos and, perhaps, DTS UHD when it arrives... if not, I can move them.

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post #703 of 790 Old 07-09-2014, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I have all Quested direct radiators. 7.5 bed and 6 speakers for heights. At this point, I think I am going to set up all for AUro and hope it will work with Atmos as the Datasat processor can use Auro to upmix.

I'll place front heights up at the front, above the screen, tipping down to the main listening area and side heights on either side of the main listening area and rear heights up and above the surround rears but angled down to the main listening area.

I suspect this should be pretty close for Atmos and, perhaps, DTS UHD when it arrives... if not, I can move them.
There has been absolutely no movement on the Auro front. Unless there's some stealth announcement planned for CEDIA I would instead consider Atmos speaker positioning. Besides, Atmos can sound better since it has discrete information to work with. Much of Auro is based on matrixing. This seems to bear out with people's comparisons between the two formats.

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post #704 of 790 Old 07-20-2014, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Timbre matching is very important for all object based formats for a seamless 3D sound scape. Here's what I would do: Get four short, positional ceiling mount brackets and use the RC-R's in bipole mode to use as the on ceiling surrounds. Position each with the side drivers firing towards the front and back of the room and angled so that the left array fires towards the farthest listener on the right and the right array fires towards the farthest listener on the left of the room.

We just have commercial Dolby Atmos specs. to go by right now.

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...=cin-atmos-pro

Are you planning on a front projection screen by any chance?
Whew!!!! Just read every page of this thread and have to say it's quite exhausting. One thing I'd like to know is if it generally still advisable to use surround speakers that utilize bipole/dipole (switchable) or are regular bookshelfs preferred with what is coming with Atmos? I"m looking to upgrade my system now (very modest budget): help upgrading my speakers
and thought this might pertinent to my decision making. Especially, since I have been considering adding switchable bipole/dipole speakers as surrounds that would not be timbre matched to whatever I end up using in the front.

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post #705 of 790 Old 07-21-2014, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
Whew!!!! Just read every page of this thread and have to say it's quite exhausting. One thing I'd like to know is if it generally still advisable to use surround speakers that utilize bipole/dipole (switchable) or are regular bookshelfs preferred with what is coming with Atmos? I"m looking to upgrade my system now (very modest budget): help upgrading my speakers
and thought this might pertinent to my decision making. Especially, since I have been considering adding switchable bipole/dipole speakers as surrounds that would not be timbre matched to whatever I end up using in the front.
The short answer is that we may know more concrete bits of information no later than CEDIA in September. Dolby has promised they will release a detailed installer white paper for recommended home Atmos systems shortly.

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post #706 of 790 Old 07-22-2014, 04:16 AM
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Hey Guys,
I have a 14'x16' HT room where the Couch is on the Back wall (14') and I have a 7.1 denon 1911 receiver.
I currently have it set up as 5. with the surrounds in the ceiling.

What would be the best way to use the 7.1 set up? Front heights or rear sides?

Would it be possible to wire a total of 4 surrounds to the rear 2 channels for more sound or would that be weird?
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post #707 of 790 Old 07-22-2014, 04:18 AM
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Don't wire up four speakers to two amp terminals it'll put strain on your amp.

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post #708 of 790 Old 07-22-2014, 05:20 AM
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Question on Klipsch Reference II theater speakers

My front speakers are 6 cubic ft JBL L-200 studio monitors. (Room is 13 by 24 living room with 8 ft ceiling, carpeted and with cloth furniture. I have a 65 inch Sony 4k tv and an Epson front Projector.) I like the JBL compression driver horns for real vocal clarity and the 15" bass drivers go pretty strong and deep. Up to now I used a low cost (about $200) center channel Klipsch with tweeter and side by side 4 inch bass drivers. It was better than some I heard but still lacked the clarity I wanted. To compliment my big JBL's I just purchased Klipsch Reference II RS 62 II surrounds and RC 64 II center channel also incorporating horn loaded high frequency drivers. I went with the surrounds matching the center channel since that center channel is supposed to be super clear for dialogue. They have a bass and trebel driver pair facing at what appears to be 45 degrees to the front and the second pair 45 degrees tot he rear but in phase to preserver bass. The three Klipsch speakers are over 97 dB efficiency and have decent power handling ability so should have good dynamics even with the 93 dB efficient JBL's on my Yamaha 3010 receiver. I considered just skipping a center channel and just using my stereo JBL pair and buying only surrounds, but took the plunge anyway. Anyone have these Klipsch units? Mine are to arrive late this week. I heard some similar lower cost Klipsch at the dealer and really hope these will be a good match for my JBL's. Hate to spend $2500 and not get decent improvement.

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post #709 of 790 Old 08-05-2014, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Shenefelt View Post
Question on Klipsch Reference II theater speakers

My front speakers are 6 cubic ft JBL L-200 studio monitors. (Room is 13 by 24 living room with 8 ft ceiling, carpeted and with cloth furniture. I have a 65 inch Sony 4k tv and an Epson front Projector.) I like the JBL compression driver horns for real vocal clarity and the 15" bass drivers go pretty strong and deep. Up to now I used a low cost (about $200) center channel Klipsch with tweeter and side by side 4 inch bass drivers. It was better than some I heard but still lacked the clarity I wanted. To compliment my big JBL's I just purchased Klipsch Reference II RS 62 II surrounds and RC 64 II center channel also incorporating horn loaded high frequency drivers. I went with the surrounds matching the center channel since that center channel is supposed to be super clear for dialogue. They have a bass and trebel driver pair facing at what appears to be 45 degrees to the front and the second pair 45 degrees tot he rear but in phase to preserver bass. The three Klipsch speakers are over 97 dB efficiency and have decent power handling ability so should have good dynamics even with the 93 dB efficient JBL's on my Yamaha 3010 receiver. I considered just skipping a center channel and just using my stereo JBL pair and buying only surrounds, but took the plunge anyway. Anyone have these Klipsch units? Mine are to arrive late this week. I heard some similar lower cost Klipsch at the dealer and really hope these will be a good match for my JBL's. Hate to spend $2500 and not get decent improvement.
Bill,
How do you like your new speakers and overall setup?
I'm looking at buying 4 bipoles for surround use to match up as best I can with JTR T12s.
Klipsch, DEf Tech and JBL are high on my list.
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post #710 of 790 Old 08-05-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post
Bill,
How do you like your new speakers and overall setup?
I'm looking at buying 4 bipoles for surround use to match up as best I can with JTR T12s.
Klipsch, DEf Tech and JBL are high on my list.
Many seem to recommend the JBL 8320 or 8340A wide dispersal surrounds as inexpensive alternatives to JTR surrounds that match up quite well for wall and ceiling installations. If you're considering Atmos in your future at all, you don't want bipoles or dipoles and you want to timbre match as closely as possible to your fronts.

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post #711 of 790 Old 08-05-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Many seem to recommend the JBL 8320 or 8340A wide dispersal surrounds as inexpensive alternatives to JTR surrounds that match up quite well for wall and ceiling installations. If you're considering Atmos in your future at all, you don't want bipoles or dipoles and you want to timbre match as closely as possible to your fronts.
I AM considering Atmos in the very near future. Why do you say you won't want bipoles in an Atmos setup?
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post #712 of 790 Old 08-05-2014, 09:47 AM
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I AM considering Atmos in the very near future. Why do you say you won't want bipoles in an Atmos setup?
The severe dispersal pattern of bipole and especially dipole radiating drivers seems to wreck some havoc on the 3D effect created by Atmos audio objects when positioned by the renderer. Dolby is releasing a white paper soon that should spell out some of their recommendations for placement and other important items.

I don't know of any bipole speakers that are close sonic fits for JTR's. That's why those JBL's are usually recommended. With those Triple 12HT, I would probably move towards the 8340A's for all the surrounds. Be sure to put them on adjustable brackets for proper positioning.

I don't know how many speakers your room can handle or your budget, but it looks like the full home Atmos layout (given the right processor) is:

Five behind the screen speakers (for larger screens)
Five left wall surround array
Five right wall surround array
Five back wall surround array
10 overheads

Plus subs

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post #713 of 790 Old 08-05-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
The severe dispersal pattern of bipole and especially dipole radiating drivers seems to wreck some havoc on the 3D effect created by Atmos audio objects when positioned by the renderer. Dolby is releasing a white paper soon that should spell out some of their recommendations for placement and other important items.

I don't know of any bipole speakers that are close sonic fits for JTR's. That's why those JBL's are usually recommended. With those Triple 12HT, I would probably move towards the 8340A's for all the surrounds. Be sure to put them on adjustable brackets for proper positioning.

I don't know how many speakers your room can handle or your budget, but it looks like the full home Atmos layout (given the right processor) is:

Five behind the screen speakers (for larger screens)
Five left wall surround array
Five right wall surround array
Five back wall surround array
10 overheads

Plus subs
I am planning on a 7.2.4 setup. I currently have a 5.2 setup with plans in motion to add the 2 rear channels and 4 ceiling Atmos channels. I hadn't heard that bipoles weren't recommended in Atmos but I guess most of the info hasn't been released for home theater implementation. Good to know.
Anything else you'd recommend other than the 8340's? I was hoping to stay between $1k and $1500 for the 4 surrounds knowing that I'm also going to be ponying up for 4 ceiling speakers in near future. It looks like the JBL's would be over $2k for four of them.
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post #714 of 790 Old 08-05-2014, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post
I am planning on a 7.2.4 setup. I currently have a 5.2 setup with plans in motion to add the 2 rear channels and 4 ceiling Atmos channels. I hadn't heard that bipoles weren't recommended in Atmos but I guess most of the info hasn't been released for home theater implementation. Good to know.
Anything else you'd recommend other than the 8340's? I was hoping to stay between $1k and $1500 for the 4 surrounds knowing that I'm also going to be ponying up for 4 ceiling speakers in near future. It looks like the JBL's would be over $2k for four of them.
The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head would be to down scale to the 8320's. Under $500 a pair. Given B&H Photo's price, it would be $1,482 for three pairs. What are you using for surrounds right now? So you don't mismatch your surrounds, I would probably bump up your budget and get four pairs and then they're all the same. If the current surrounds aren't JTR's then perhaps sell them to help cover some costs.

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Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 08-05-2014 at 10:06 AM.
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post #715 of 790 Old 08-05-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head would be to down scale to the 8320's. Under $500 a pair. Given B&H Photo's price, it would be $1,482 for three pairs. What are you using for surrounds right now? So you don't mismatch your surrounds, I would probably bump up your budget and get four pairs and then they're all the same. If the current surrounds aren't JTR's then perhaps sell them to help cover some costs.
I'm using Emotiva ERD-1's. They just aren't cutting it and since I'm making these changes and adding 2 rear speakers, I might as well replace my side surrounds as well.
I assume I'll hear a difference switching to 8320's?
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post #716 of 790 Old 08-05-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post
I'm using Emotiva ERD-1's. They just aren't cutting it and since I'm making these changes and adding 2 rear speakers, I might as well replace my side surrounds as well.
I assume I'll hear a difference switching to 8320's?
Hit the wrong button. Okay... here we go...

The 8320's are designed and built for small commercial cinema auditoriums and THX Certified, with attachments for various wall and ceiling mounting brackets. They're the real McCoys, unlike the ERD-1's.

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post #717 of 790 Old 08-05-2014, 01:13 PM
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Klipsch with jbl

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Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post
Bill,
How do you like your new speakers and overall setup?
I'm looking at buying 4 bipoles for surround use to match up as best I can with JTR T12s.
Klipsch, DEf Tech and JBL are high on my list.
I'm not sure what JTR's sound like. The front Klipsch RF 64 has a fuller warmer midrange than my JBL "L-300" front speakers and thus with dialogue they are not as good to my ears as the front JBL monitors. I was really disappointed by this. I was hoping the RC 64 would take over, not degrade, dialogue. It seems to depend a lot on the source so I am not yet convinced they cannot be adjusted to push up the treble in the dialogue range and lower the "honky muffled tone in some but not all dialogue. I find myself switching my yamaha to "2 channel stereo" and not surround, to help clarity of dialogue in these cases. Again it is only necessary for some TV dialogue that sounds muffled like they are speaking thru a thick blanket. I picked the Klipsch because at least they used horn loaded HF and thought they might match the big JBL horns in sound character. They do not! My JBL 15 inch drivers cross over to the mid-range horns at 800 cps. The Klipsch a few hundred cps higher so I thought they might match the JBL character. They do not. The 15 inch guys are good down to the low 30's and even into the mid 20 cps realm. They seem to blend with the horns at 800 cps providing great punch. The Klipsch cut off sooner at 60 cps but are a sealed box so they do have great bass extension. The JBL are ported with a faster cutoff down in the 25 cps area.

The two RS 62's are far from "dipoles" and I suppose are classed as bipoles. As best I can hear, the two rear facing drivers on each channel are in phase with the front facing drivers. Dipoles are 180 degrees out of phase to keep from creating a single point sounding source. The RS 62's just point in two directions at about a 90 degree angle . They sound more like decent, powerful bookshelf units reasonable in bass content and power. If you are looking for added volume spread in a big room, the Klipsch RS 62s may fit the bill. Your speakers seem to match a love for powerful sound. Would you be happier with electrostatics in the front? If not, as I suspect, maybe the klipsch will work for you. With the YAPO Yamaha setup they are, for me, way too loud and act not like speakers that increase the surround sound stage but provide separate speakers to the sides to really fill up the room. Instead of sounding like rear sound bleeding into the film stage, they sound like separate microphones were used in the rear to gather detail on what was going on there,independent of the front and thus have equal importance. My old ones sounded better "surround effect wise". They were just cheap JBL 3 inch with tweeter surround speakers and I angled them up to the ceiling to get an spread effect, not a point second source. I sure do not see $2300 in improvement over what I had. Now this was just using TV stuff, not any movies yet. Possibly with movies they surround will be less made up than it is with TV shows. Maybe my 13x27' room is too small for this setup and just does not need these. The JBL front speakers and sub give me more volume than anyone could possibly want in the room. These seem to give a second source of sound not an extension of the front sound-stage adding some side and rear effects. If you are after dipoles with 180 degree phase front to back, the DEF techs are not described to be dipoles either. Maybe a pr of some lower cost speakers wired out of phase on each side of the room and pointed at the ceiling could give you such a non localized effect? For $600 each, the Klipsch RS 62's do not do that. In addition, I struggled to hold them up and mount them at my age without help. If I get in the mood, maybe I will try to open them and put in a switch to change phase of the second pr of drivers in the enclosure but that might not work as they are in the same box I would guess, not divided. Try calling Crutchfield and asking about some of their polk surrounds. They seem to have several surround units and carry a lot of speaker types so maybe they could provide some insight. Some surrounds can be wired either way and may fit your needs. I do not know what your speaker sound character is but maybe they could give some insight. Go to a local place that has some Polks to see what they sound like. I only went to the Klipsch 62's for the bass extension. Not sure it is needed though. To me $600 each was a lot for each speaker of a pr of surround speakers.

My JBL's are about 8 dB less efficient than I see for the JTR T12 specs but can handle a ton of power. I hit the 18 incher once with a slap of over a kilowatt (250 watt per channel Heathkit amp with 3 db headroom, then bridged). It lit the overload lights and I assume that meant in excess of 1000 watts. and really shook some cobwebs loose. The horns can take 30 watts and output 112dB with 1 watt input.

I am eying up some room acoustic traps and am considering adding some "RealTraps" Mondos to get better control of low frequency room effects etc. I have yet to hear a speaker that gives better clearer dialogue than my JBL 300 mockups (all JBL components except their cabinets). Even my 4343 JBL monitor mockups are not as crisp as these L-300's for dialogue and vocals. Are you looking for vocal clarity or for increased fullness? I liked what I heard once, clarity and sound-stage wise on a pr of Apogee speakers on a fortune in electronics but other than those and some B&W monitors, I am sticking to my JBL's for what I like to hear. JBL generally has a strong upper midrange which works well with vocals. Sounds like they are made for movies if you care about dialogue. If I record my daughter (light lyric soprano in opera work) in my living room and play it back on the JBL's, it sounds like she is standing there. The JBL front and side surround units just did not fit my placement issues and the front center unit was way too tall. I was considering putting it over my pull down screen it was going to be a major challenge. The Klipsch was also too much a challenge so I had to stick it on a stand shelf and increase the legs by about 8 inches to bring the center up to a reasonable height. If I had room for a bass driver in the center, I would have gone with a JBL horn compression driver and a bass driver. Have you heard any bipole versus dipole systems?
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post #718 of 790 Old 08-06-2014, 05:12 PM
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Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole...What about tripoles like the M&K MPS-2525 or MPS-2575? I've used bipoles and dipoles, but like the tripole much more.
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post #719 of 790 Old 08-06-2014, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaswerner@gmail View Post
Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole...What about tripoles like the M&K MPS-2525 or MPS-2575? I've used bipoles and dipoles, but like the tripole much more.
Do you want to use these speakers with Atmos? If so, I would stick to wide dispersion monopoles. Tripoles tend to have some element that has a dipolar pattern, which is not a good match with object based surround.

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post #720 of 790 Old 08-08-2014, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Do you want to use these speakers with Atmos? If so, I would stick to wide dispersion monopoles. Tripoles tend to have some element that has a dipolar pattern, which is not a good match
with object based surround.
Some people prefer diffused or spread sound. Depends on the room too.

If the sofa was right up against the back wall, no way I'd use monopoles, even if they're the coaxial type which generally have a wider dispersion and central sound point source.

I have heard M&K tripoles, forget the model maybe K and S series. Like the S series but too expensive for me.

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