SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 24 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: There are many surround speakers out there now, but the ones below would have to get my highest reco
Mirage OMD5 (or any other Mirage Omnipole) 23 23.23%
JBL P520WS / Infinity ES-250 / Infinity Classia C255ES (Dual-monopole for 4 channels from 2 speakers, but also Bipole & Dipole switchable) 4 4.04%
Axiom QS8 or QS4 (Unique Quadpole design) 26 26.26%
Paradigm ADP (Many models available with this design, where the tweeters run Dipole, but the woofers are Bipole) 17 17.17%
Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX (Single woofer, but the tweeters can switch to either Dipole or Bipole) 13 13.13%
Monitor Audio GXFX (6 drivers, including a ribbon. (Monopole / Dipole switchable) 11 11.11%
KEF 26/2DS (Dipole only, alas... but with two 6.5 inch side woofers and a front-firing 8 inch!!! ) 5 5.05%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #691 of 703 Old 06-30-2014, 08:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
I appreciate all the insight. I do want to keep my RC line, so I wanted to know which out of those speakers that you mentioned would best for the four in ceiling speakers that the atoms setup would require. What about the placement too. I saw a diagram where the fronts ceiling speakers were above the main fronts and another where they were above the wides. Then the rear ceilings were right above the listener and in another pic they were above the rear surrounds. What is your take on that, and which of those speakers that you mentioned would timbre match the best. Thanks again
Def Tech UIW RCS II in-ceiling speakers would be a close approximation of the Energy RC line. You need four.

So, then I would still use your current Energy surrounds for the sides and back wall surrounds in either bipole or monopole mode, but not dipole mode. I'm still mulling over how best to proceed with the front screen wall. If you can squeeze an acoustic screen in there... that would be best.

We're still not sure exactly where the top surrounds should optimally be located. Dolby is supposed to have more details in a big August event prior to the CEDIA convention. However, what we DO know is that they are not placed directly above the front mains or back surrounds like some DTS Neo:X layouts. It's as clear as mud.

Just be patient like the rest of us.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #692 of 703 Old 06-30-2014, 09:49 PM
Senior Member
 
cxr369's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
I appreciate all the insight. I do want to keep my RC line, so I wanted to know which out of those speakers that you mentioned would best for the four in ceiling speakers that the atoms setup would require. What about the placement too. I saw a diagram where the fronts ceiling speakers were above the main fronts and another where they were above the wides. Then the rear ceilings were right above the listener and in another pic they were above the rear surrounds. What is your take on that, and which of those speakers that you mentioned would timbre match the best. Thanks again
Also I took a look at the triads, their specs have a minimum frequency of 70 doesn't it have to be at least 40 like you mentioned for an optimal Atmos setup?
cxr369 is offline  
post #693 of 703 Old 06-30-2014, 10:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
Also I took a look at the triads, their specs have a minimum frequency of 70 doesn't it have to be at least 40 like you mentioned for an optimal Atmos setup?
I should have clarified. Dolby recommends surrounds down to 40 Hz, but if your theater does not meet that specification some Atmos processors (manufacturer dependent) can compensate with surround speaker bass management and dedicated subwoofer outputs aside from the LFE output.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #694 of 703 Old 07-01-2014, 12:42 AM
Senior Member
 
cxr369's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 12
That makes sense. So would you still take the Triads over the Def Techs for my setup or since the Def Techs are close to what I already have, then go with those? As far as the acoustic screen, what would be the benefit, if I can put the front's next to the screen and the front wides there too? I don't know if 18-20 inches would be enough space for a false wall, and what do I do with my front wides? if they are going to be outside of the false wall, what is the main benefit? I'm just asking because I really don't know. I really appreciate the help.
cxr369 is offline  
post #695 of 703 Old 07-01-2014, 08:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
That makes sense. So would you still take the Triads over the Def Techs for my setup or since the Def Techs are close to what I already have, then go with those? As far as the acoustic screen, what would be the benefit, if I can put the front's next to the screen and the front wides there too? I don't know if 18-20 inches would be enough space for a false wall, and what do I do with my front wides? if they are going to be outside of the false wall, what is the main benefit? I'm just asking because I really don't know. I really appreciate the help.
I'm off to an appointment. Not leaving you hanging. Will be back this evening.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #696 of 703 Old 07-01-2014, 09:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxr369 View Post
That makes sense. So would you still take the Triads over the Def Techs for my setup or since the Def Techs are close to what I already have, then go with those? As far as the acoustic screen, what would be the benefit, if I can put the front's next to the screen and the front wides there too? I don't know if 18-20 inches would be enough space for a false wall, and what do I do with my front wides? if they are going to be outside of the false wall, what is the main benefit? I'm just asking because I really don't know. I really appreciate the help.
For one thing, an acoustically transparent screen allows you to place the speakers directly behind the material, just like a commercial theater. This locks the picture with the sound rather than having the sound of the center come from below the action or the left and rights off to the sides of the screen. It's the best thing you can possibly do as it is the premium speaker setup in a theater.




Given that, using the RC-70's behind the screen... you may be pushing things a bit given their large size. If you sell your Energy's and go with Triad Silver LCR in-walls or in-room's behind an AT screen... you could easily pull it off (someone made a 14" deep false wall -- total depth of 12" decking with stud framing and screen frame mounting standoffs -- and used larger Triad Gold LCR in-room's and two medium subs behind the screen with no problem - see image above). If the cost of the Triad's happen to fall outside your budget (I don't know the latest retail price-- check the Triad speaker thread or contact AVS's sales staff for a quote), you could go with the Def Techs I mentioned.

The Triads would definitely be a big step up in sound quality.

You would size your screen up to your seating distance... I doubt it would cover the entire width of your room. This is a handy calculator for 16x9 screens. http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html

Then you would place front wide side surrounds on the side walls. They usually sit a little bit between the traditional side surrounds (perhaps slightly closer to the screen wall than the side surrounds) and your front screen wall speakers and are angled to fire towards your primary listening space. They fill in the sonic gap between those two speaker positions.

Again, we should know more precise speaker locations for Atmos fairly soon.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 07-01-2014 at 09:49 PM.
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #697 of 703 Old 07-07-2014, 05:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 23,576
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 86
So, is there any links or diagrams for ideal set up for HOME ATMOS?

Thanks!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
thebland is online now  
post #698 of 703 Old 07-07-2014, 05:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
So, is there any links or diagrams for ideal set up for HOME ATMOS?

Thanks!
Not yet. Whatever has been released doesn't really help. They're just general sketches, no specifics.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #699 of 703 Old 07-07-2014, 07:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
GIEGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
So, is there any links or diagrams for ideal set up for HOME ATMOS?

Thanks!
This Audioholics article (which I know Dan has some issues with) gives the general configurations:

Dolby Atmos For Home Theater Explained


A set up diagram is posted here and discussed by the DIY crew. It looks pretty specific to me.

Design Challenge - Ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos


The diagram was originally posted by AVR guru jdsmoothie, so I presume it's lifted from the owner's manual of one of the upcoming (Denon?) Atmos enabled AVR's.

The 'Official' 2014 Denon "S Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
GIEGAR is online now  
post #700 of 703 Old 07-07-2014, 07:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
This Audioholics article (which I know Dan has some issues with) gives the general configurations:

Dolby Atmos For Home Theater Explained


A set up diagram is posted here and discussed by the DIY crew. It looks pretty specific to me.

Design Challenge - Ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos


The diagram was originally posted by AVR guru jdsmoothie, so I presume it's lifted from the owner's manual of one of the upcoming (Denon?) Atmos enabled AVR's.

The 'Official' 2014 Denon "S Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

I wouldn't call that diagram specific enough if you're designing a theater from scratch and maybe paying someone to create blueprints. A lot of people need more than that to go on. They haven't even laid out the speaker recommendations yet (just those compromised all-in-ones). Maybe in August... maybe at CEDIA... who knows for certain??

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 07-07-2014 at 07:50 PM.
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #701 of 703 Old 07-08-2014, 08:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
GIEGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
I wouldn't call that diagram specific enough if you're designing a theater from scratch and maybe paying someone to create blueprints. A lot of people need more than that to go on.
Well it's 100% better than nothing and I would call it specific enough. In my line of work, if a tech agency sent me a trainee CAD operator that couldn't interpret that diagram, I'd send them back the next day.

Honestly, what more could one need to successfully lay out the speakers? The diagram shows the alignment of the speakers from the front to rear based on the position of the mains, and a range of acceptable angles of declination from the main listening position. Having a range of acceptable values is no different to the recommended 5.1 and 7.1 speaker layouts published by Dolby (and others) for years. Indeed, the fact that there are a range of acceptable values tells me that a level of precision beyond that is not required for proper height/top speaker positioning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
They haven't even laid out the speaker recommendations yet (just those compromised all-in-ones). Maybe in August... maybe at CEDIA... who knows for certain??
I'm aware of that thanks, but @thebland didn't ask about speaker recommendations.
GIEGAR is online now  
post #702 of 703 Old 07-09-2014, 06:29 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 23,576
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

I'm aware of that thanks, but @thebland didn't ask about speaker recommendations.
I have all Quested direct radiators. 7.5 bed and 6 speakers for heights. At this point, I think I am going to set up all for AUro and hope it will work with Atmos as the Datasat processor can use Auro to upmix.

I'll place front heights up at the front, above the screen, tipping down to the main listening area and side heights on either side of the main listening area and rear heights up and above the surround rears but angled down to the main listening area.

I suspect this should be pretty close for Atmos and, perhaps, DTS UHD when it arrives... if not, I can move them.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
thebland is online now  
post #703 of 703 Old 07-09-2014, 08:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 209 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I have all Quested direct radiators. 7.5 bed and 6 speakers for heights. At this point, I think I am going to set up all for AUro and hope it will work with Atmos as the Datasat processor can use Auro to upmix.

I'll place front heights up at the front, above the screen, tipping down to the main listening area and side heights on either side of the main listening area and rear heights up and above the surround rears but angled down to the main listening area.

I suspect this should be pretty close for Atmos and, perhaps, DTS UHD when it arrives... if not, I can move them.
There has been absolutely no movement on the Auro front. Unless there's some stealth announcement planned for CEDIA I would instead consider Atmos speaker positioning. Besides, Atmos can sound better since it has discrete information to work with. Much of Auro is based on matrixing. This seems to bear out with people's comparisons between the two formats.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Infinity Es 250 Bipole Dipole Dual Monopole Surround Speaker

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off