SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 27 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: There are many surround speakers out there now, but the ones below would have to get my highest reco
Mirage OMD5 (or any other Mirage Omnipole) 28 21.37%
JBL P520WS / Infinity ES-250 / Infinity Classia C255ES (Dual-monopole for 4 channels from 2 speakers, but also Bipole & Dipole switchable) 8 6.11%
Axiom QS8 or QS4 (Unique Quadpole design) 36 27.48%
Paradigm ADP (Many models available with this design, where the tweeters run Dipole, but the woofers are Bipole) 21 16.03%
Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX (Single woofer, but the tweeters can switch to either Dipole or Bipole) 15 11.45%
Monitor Audio GXFX (6 drivers, including a ribbon. (Monopole / Dipole switchable) 16 12.21%
KEF 26/2DS (Dipole only, alas... but with two 6.5 inch side woofers and a front-firing 8 inch!!! ) 8 6.11%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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post #781 of 811 Old 10-12-2014, 11:06 AM
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Trying to wrap my brain around Atmos. For a 7.1.4 setup (for instance) does it matter if the surround speakers in the 7 speaker configuration contain some bipole surrounds? Or should all surround speakers be monopole and match the additional 4 Atmos speakers? Can I keep my current setup and just add the additional Atmos surrounds (in my situation in-ceiling)?
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post #782 of 811 Old 10-12-2014, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Trying to wrap my brain around Atmos. For a 7.1.4 setup (for instance) does it matter if the surround speakers in the 7 speaker configuration contain some bipole surrounds? Or should all surround speakers be monopole and match the additional 4 Atmos speakers? Can I keep my current setup and just add the additional Atmos surrounds (in my situation in-ceiling)?
At the a Dolby training class at Cedia, they weren't saying NOT to use bipolar/dipolar speakers but the recommended spec is monopolar.
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post #783 of 811 Old 10-12-2014, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post
At the a Dolby training class at Cedia, they weren't saying NOT to use bipolar/dipolar speakers but the recommended spec is monopolar.
Monopolar for just the Atmos overhead speakers or would I also have to replace the rear and side surround speakers in the original 7.1 setup with monopolar?
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post #784 of 811 Old 10-12-2014, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Monopolar for just the Atmos overhead speakers or would I also have to replace the rear and side surround speakers in the original 7.1 setup with monopolar?
All of them. Wide dispersion monopoles work best.

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post #785 of 811 Old 10-12-2014, 02:02 PM
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All of them. Wide dispersion monopoles work best.
That's what I was afraid to hear.. Well I have a few years...
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post #786 of 811 Old 10-12-2014, 04:39 PM
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Had THX certification come out and endorse monopole over their prior Di-pole recommendation?
I've not seen anything on that.


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post #787 of 811 Old 10-12-2014, 05:30 PM
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Had THX certification come out and endorse monopole over their prior Di-pole recommendation?
I've not seen anything on that.


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THX is irrelevant to this discussion. They did not come up with these immersive sound formats. Dolby, Auro, and DTS do recommend switching to timbre matched monopole surrounds (wide dispersion characteristics are even better) for 3D audio since you can actually now have a surround array just like at the cinemas, especially with Dolby and DTS's object based formats. Dipoles, especially, smear the 3D effect the mixers are trying to create.

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post #788 of 811 Old 10-12-2014, 11:34 PM
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Dolby state that if the speakers image well then they are fine to use. Tripole speakers work as well in n Atmos system as they do in present 5.1/7.1 systems.

This is also using tripoles for ceiling speakers. Do not dismiss it until you have heard it. This is from direct comparisons in non dedicated and dedicated cinema rooms running a full MK300 suite and and a full MK150 mk2 system in separate rooms.

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post #789 of 811 Old 10-13-2014, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
THX is irrelevant to this discussion. They did not come up with these immersive sound formats. Dolby, Auro, and DTS do recommend switching to timbre matched monopole surrounds (wide dispersion characteristics are even better) for 3D audio since you can actually now have a surround array just like at the cinemas, especially with Dolby and DTS's object based formats. Dipoles, especially, smear the 3D effect the mixers are trying to create.
Dan,
You and I know that, I was asking has THX changed their stance, being a post-object sound world now they have to play in the same sandbox as others.



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post #790 of 811 Old 10-13-2014, 02:21 PM
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Dan,
You and I know that, I was asking has THX changed their stance, being a post-object sound world now they have to play in the same sandbox as others.
THX has pretty much dropped off the radar as far as the electronics companies are concerned. They don't want to pay for certification that amounts to (in this day and age in consumer land): THX... what the hell is that?

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post #791 of 811 Old 11-07-2014, 12:32 AM
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To those who have arrays of surround speakers (example 2x LeftSurround, 2x RightSurround) for multi-row seating, how do you time-align these surround speakers?
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post #792 of 811 Old 11-25-2014, 08:54 AM
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Is it possible to mix surround sound speakers and bookshelves? Considering a 7.1 Setup, something simple as i live in an apartment complex. Purchased a v577 yamaha receiver and klipsch 12hg sub on sale. Considering getting some Floorstanding for the front and am trying to decide whether to get four bookshelf speakers for the side and rear or a combination of two bookshelf for the back and two surround sound speakers for the side.

Should you combine the two or simple stick to the bookshelves?

Thanks!
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post #793 of 811 Old 11-25-2014, 09:00 AM
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15 x 18 Living Room By the way.
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post #794 of 811 Old 11-25-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Techcafiend View Post
Is it possible to mix surround sound speakers and bookshelves? Considering a 7.1 Setup, something simple as i live in an apartment complex. Purchased a v577 yamaha receiver and klipsch 12hg sub on sale. Considering getting some Floorstanding for the front and am trying to decide whether to get four bookshelf speakers for the side and rear or a combination of two bookshelf for the back and two surround sound speakers for the side.

Should you combine the two or simple stick to the bookshelves?

Thanks!
If you're going to upgrade to Dolby Atmos in the future... four matching bookshelves (that are from the same "family" as your front three) would probably work better. At the very least scratch dipole surrounds off your list. They're fast becoming passe with these new 3D audio formats.

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post #795 of 811 Old 11-29-2014, 11:45 PM
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Hi guys continuing with the Atmos talk

I was thinking of buying Axiom QS8 for rear surrounds so would a 2 front atmos setup work good or is better to drop the QS8 and get 2 monopoles for a 4 speaker atmos setup

5.2.2 just two atmos front plus the QS8
or
5.2.4 four atmos plus back monopoles

I like that the QS8 could be setup on the wall as is a small room just under 11'x11'
as there are not many front ported monopoles.

also another question do the atmos AVR scale all the movies for atmos or the DVDs have to be recorded that way for it to work.

Thanks!
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post #796 of 811 Old 12-08-2014, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cloudbuster View Post
Hi guys continuing with the Atmos talk

I was thinking of buying Axiom QS8 for rear surrounds so would a 2 front atmos setup work good or is better to drop the QS8 and get 2 monopoles for a 4 speaker atmos setup

5.2.2 just two atmos front plus the QS8
or
5.2.4 four atmos plus back monopoles

I like that the QS8 could be setup on the wall as is a small room just under 11'x11'
as there are not many front ported monopoles.

also another question do the atmos AVR scale all the movies for atmos or the DVDs have to be recorded that way for it to work.

Thanks!

For Atmos, 4 would definitely be more noticeable than the 2'rear surrounds. I own q8's (both sides and rear), but the rears don't seem to do much. I do like the Q8's though: it seems to me that real sounds are omnidirectional and the Q8's simulate this better than monopoles or dipoles. They also seem to expand the size of the room. BUT I've heard the Dolby guys recommend direct radiators as surrounds, and I don't claim to know more than they do.


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post #797 of 811 Old 12-10-2014, 12:11 AM
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Bipole and Tripole work perfectly well in an Atmos system.

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post #798 of 811 Old 12-11-2014, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by richmagnus View Post
Bipole and Tripole work perfectly well in an Atmos system.
I just checked my speakercraft cinema dipole threes (4 x speakers as both my side and rear surrounds). They have all been on the QFX setting since my 7.2.4 Atmos system has been up and running (did not check before since I am happy with what I am hearing). QFX means HF signal radiates in Dipole Mode while M/L frequencies radiate in Bipole Mode. The other two options for these speakers are Dipole only and Bipole only.

As I stated before, I have been really happy with my set up as I have been able to localize sounds in 3D space (not attributed to a specific speaker). Over the next few nights I will test the other modes on these speakers in order to optimize the Atmos effect. I may find out that the way I was listening is optimum. However, although conflicting guidance exists, the preponderance of the recommendations have been for monopole in favor over Bipole, and Bipole in favor over Dipole.

If QFX settings have been giving me HF signals in Dipole, I would assume this was not giving me optimal results. But again, I have been blown away by how awesome both DSU and ATMOS have enveloped me in a sea of sounds.

Has anyone else tested these different settings on their speakers? If so, what sounded best to you?

I'll report my results here this weekend. I'll post on the official Atmos thread too.
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post #799 of 811 Old 12-19-2014, 11:29 AM
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I think the monopole recommendation has the Atmos circle/canopy in mind, with multiple screen, side, rear and ceiling speakers. This is what will sound best with the full array. If you are mainly listening to 5.1 or 7.1 soundtracks with that amount of speakers, then keeping any dipoles in your system for the time being wouldn't be bad. As has been mentioned, when we all go full object eventually, the multiple wide dispersion monopoles will be the recommendation.
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post #800 of 811 Old 12-24-2014, 12:35 PM
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also depend on the configuration of 5.1 or 7.1
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post #801 of 811 Old 12-24-2014, 03:25 PM
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Question

I'm starting to plan a build (remodel exhisting room my Dedicated Multi-Purpose Theater Room ... yes, I did say that

It is for Movies (40%), TV (40%), and Games/Music (20%).

Attached is the first draft of the room.

I currently have Paradigm Monitor 7 v5 R/L, v6 Center, 4x Atom v4 Surrounds ... If I want to "hide" the surrounds I'm not sure I can use the Atoms... they are deep and back ported.

Questions...
1. What Surrounds and Ceiling speakers would you guys suggest if I want to build an Atmos-ready theater? (I'm thinking 6 ceiling speakers)
2. Suggestions on placement?

thanks for the help!
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________
Ltek

my setup: XBMC, Windows Media Center, Z-Wave/Insteon automation, Paradigm-Parasound-Onkyo-Velodyne Home Theater, 110" DIY Screen & BenQ W1070
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post #802 of 811 Old 12-25-2014, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greylight44 View Post
I think the monopole recommendation has the Atmos circle/canopy in mind, with multiple screen, side, rear and ceiling speakers. This is what will sound best with the full array. If you are mainly listening to 5.1 or 7.1 soundtracks with that amount of speakers, then keeping any dipoles in your system for the time being wouldn't be bad. As has been mentioned, when we all go full object eventually, the multiple wide dispersion monopoles will be the recommendation.

Bipole and Tripole will be here to stay with object based systems. I do agree re dipoles though.

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post #803 of 811 Old Today, 12:16 AM
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Working on planning my build....

Wiring for 7.2.2 Atmos but due to budget will start with 5.2. Have the LCR and subs but need to get my 2 surround speakers to get to the 5.2. Recommendation for the Monitor Audio ct265fx (http://www.monitoraudio.ca/products/...-200/ct265-fx/).

Have Paradigm Studio 60's v4 and cc-590v4 for LCR
SVS sb-2000 duals

As I am going to get to Atmos I think these are decent for the growth of the system to Atmos as these have a surround mode selection of dipole (diffuse sound) or bipole (direct sound) operation and have read the direct is better for Atmos.

Agreement? Thanks...
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post #804 of 811 Old Today, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manfrog View Post
Working on planning my build....

Wiring for 7.2.2 Atmos but due to budget will start with 5.2. Have the LCR and subs but need to get my 2 surround speakers to get to the 5.2. Recommendation for the Monitor Audio ct265fx (http://www.monitoraudio.ca/products/...-200/ct265-fx/).

Have Paradigm Studio 60's v4 and cc-590v4 for LCR
SVS sb-2000 duals

As I am going to get to Atmos I think these are decent for the growth of the system to Atmos as these have a surround mode selection of dipole (diffuse sound) or bipole (direct sound) operation and have read the direct is better for Atmos.

Agreement? Thanks...
Unless you specifically cannot use matching bookshelves like the Studio 20's (the v.5 models sound the same, but have improved looks) for the side and rear surrounds in your theater design, I wouldn't go with those Monitor in-ceiling models.

Since Paradigm isn't going to be adding any timbre matched, Atmos friendly ceiling speakers to the Studio line as they may be phasing that design out, I would probably turn to something like the Tannoy Di 5DC or Di 6DC with wide-dispersal monopole dual concentric speakers with articulating mounting brackets for the ceiling. If you have a tall ceiling, go with the 6DC's... if it's under 8 feet, perhaps go with the smaller 5DC. They've been given the "seal of approval" for use as Atmos overhead speakers and they're relatively inexpensive.

I'm in the same boat as you, but I have the Studio 100's with CC-690 v.4's.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; Today at 10:16 AM.
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post #805 of 811 Old Today, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
Unless you specifically cannot use matching bookshelves like the Studio 20's (the v.5 models sound the same, but have improved looks) for the side and rear surrounds in your theater design, I wouldn't go with those Monitor in-ceiling models.

Since Paradigm isn't going to be adding any timbre matched, Atmos friendly ceiling speakers to the Studio line as they may be phasing that design out, I would probably turn to something like the Tannoy Di 5DC or Di 6DC with wide-dispersal monopole dual concentric speakers with articulating mounting brackets for the ceiling. If you have a tall ceiling, go with the 6DC's... if it's under 8 feet, perhaps go with the smaller 5DC. They've been given the "seal of approval" for use as Atmos overhead speakers and they're relatively inexpensive.

I'm in the same boat as you, but I have the Studio 100's with CC-690 v.4's.

Thanks Dan...


I wanted to do the in-ceiling/in-wall for esthetics (aka WAF) but know this creates an issue for the soundproofing that I will be employing...so I may have a chance to go mounted
That being said is there a in-wall/ceiling speaker that you would recommend to round out the 5 channel initial build...that I wouldn't have to replace for Atmos if/when I go there?


again many thanks!!
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post #806 of 811 Old Today, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by manfrog View Post
Thanks Dan...


I wanted to do the in-ceiling/in-wall for esthetics (aka WAF) but know this creates an issue for the soundproofing that I will be employing...so I may have a chance to go mounted
That being said is there a in-wall/ceiling speaker that you would recommend to round out the 5 channel initial build...that I wouldn't have to replace for Atmos if/when I go there?


again many thanks!!
If you can upgrade the front LCR speakers at a later date, I would switch over to Triad speakers as they have multiple model choices and designs to choose from and are reasonably priced compared to their quality (Triad is a rare breed - their in-wall's and in-ceiling's are every bit as good as the matching in-room versions). Not knowing your room dimensions, I couldn't easily recommend a specific line (Bronze, Silver, Gold, or Platinum), but I've always loved their laid back/smooth yet dynamic sound for years (movies and music sound equally good). Dolby uses Triad's in their Atmos demos. They sounded fantastic at CEDIA. Made in the U.S., which is a plus.

Do not use their "Surround" models for a Dolby Atmos theater, use their monopole in-walls, in-ceilings instead. This comes from Triad directly.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #807 of 811 Old Today, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
If you can upgrade the front LCR speakers at a later date, I would switch over to Triad speakers as they have multiple model choices and designs to choose from and are reasonably priced compared to their quality (Triad is a rare breed - their in-wall's and in-ceiling's are every bit as good as the matching in-room versions). Not knowing your room dimensions, I couldn't easily recommend a specific line (Bronze, Silver, Gold, or Platinum), but I've always loved their laid back/smooth yet dynamic sound for years (movies and music sound equally good). Dolby uses Triad's in their Atmos demos. They sounded fantastic at CEDIA. Made in the U.S., which is a plus.

Do not use their "Surround" models for a Dolby Atmos theater, use their monopole in-walls, in-ceilings instead. This comes from Triad directly.


Wife says I won't be upgrading my Paradigm's haha...besides I really do like them


I am looking for something that would "work" with them...I understand the timbre matching issue, but as I say this are my fronts. Bad to do a Triad with them?
Room dimensions will be 22'Lx15'Wx9'H. One sectional for seating and will be using LED mounted on wall and motorized screen (120").


I know I am trying to fight multiple battles in trying to get the "best setup possible". Soundproofing...adding speakers...existing equipment...reno's haha


If there is a decent option for me to "add" speakers that would be the way I need to go...and it would be more budget friendly than replacing the fronts.


Again thanks for the time and thoughts!
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post #808 of 811 Old Today, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by manfrog View Post
Wife says I won't be upgrading my Paradigm's haha...besides I really do like them


I am looking for something that would "work" with them...I understand the timbre matching issue, but as I say this are my fronts. Bad to do a Triad with them?
Room dimensions will be 22'Lx15'Wx9'H. One sectional for seating and will be using LED mounted on wall and motorized screen (120").


I know I am trying to fight multiple battles in trying to get the "best setup possible". Soundproofing...adding speakers...existing equipment...reno's haha


If there is a decent option for me to "add" speakers that would be the way I need to go...and it would be more budget friendly than replacing the fronts.


Again thanks for the time and thoughts!
If the wife demands in-wall's/in-ceiling's and you don't want to switch out your fronts later, I'd still go with Triad's since they build excellent speakers for such a job (many manufacturers skimp on their architectural speaker lines or make models that are only for background music duties and wimp out for everything else - not Triad). What kind of budget can you swing? Are you the kind of movie watcher who likes to push the envelope with the volume knob?

She might like the Triad's enough to let you upgrade everything else later.

Paradigm does make matching in-wall's but their price vs. quality ratio is atrocious compared to their in-room varieties (sad to say)... and they have no backer boxes.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
If the wife demands in-wall's/in-ceiling's and you don't want to switch out your fronts later, I'd still go with Triad's since they build excellent speakers for such a job (many manufacturers skimp on their architectural speaker lines or make models that are only for background music duties and wimp out for everything else - not Triad). What kind of budget can you swing? Are you the kind of movie watcher who likes to push the envelope with the volume knob?

She might like the Triad's enough to let you upgrade everything else later.

Paradigm does make matching in-wall's but their price vs. quality ratio is atrocious compared to their in-room varieties (sad to say)... and they have no backer boxes.

I am not one to push the volume in my estimation haha...never had a "dedicated room" before so who knows but I don't watch hard with the current setup.


Yeah I could upgrade down the road...heard good things about the triad's and was look at the silver as that would probably be max in terms of budget ($$$ based on a sheet that I pulled from the triad owners thread). I am just looking for the two speakers to complete the 5.2 for now, but want the ability to expand and hope the Triad model stick around a bit and then can possibly incorporate Atmos. Triad dealers seem limited right now so just hope the upgrade down the road though isn't even more limited


Never heard them either...but again reviews seem good. Which ones would you recommend? Budget is a concern as its a reno and there are other parts of the house that need to be done haha. That being said I do want decent speakers so I am happy down the road and don't mind paying a little more now for that. Again I am not a total audiophile (no disrespect to anyone meant), but at some point in the speaker food chain you can get a lot of speaker for X$, and then you can spend a lot more for the finer sound increases (these are things I might not notice).


Thanks!
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Listen to Dan, for in ceiling you want backer boxes to control sound leakage to other areas, plus the design is tuned better when a known back box size is there. I have Paradigm in ceiling in my rec room and wife's craft room. They work fine but not containing the sound leaks to the main floor.


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