SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: There are many surround speakers out there now, but the ones below would have to get my highest reco
Mirage OMD5 (or any other Mirage Omnipole) 28 21.88%
JBL P520WS / Infinity ES-250 / Infinity Classia C255ES (Dual-monopole for 4 channels from 2 speakers, but also Bipole & Dipole switchable) 8 6.25%
Axiom QS8 or QS4 (Unique Quadpole design) 36 28.13%
Paradigm ADP (Many models available with this design, where the tweeters run Dipole, but the woofers are Bipole) 20 15.63%
Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX (Single woofer, but the tweeters can switch to either Dipole or Bipole) 14 10.94%
Monitor Audio GXFX (6 drivers, including a ribbon. (Monopole / Dipole switchable) 15 11.72%
KEF 26/2DS (Dipole only, alas... but with two 6.5 inch side woofers and a front-firing 8 inch!!! ) 8 6.25%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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Speakers > SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE?
Wallboy's Avatar Wallboy 06:55 PM 06-12-2010
Hey everyone, I am going to be buying some rear surrounds soon and was wondering whether or not to just get direct radiators or dipole/bipole surrounds given the one side of the room being open. Here's a picture of my room setup and where I might be putting the surrounds. The seating is right beneath the projector.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2380/roomgu.jpg

Would bipole/dipole surrounds not work well given the open right side of the room?

Thanks for any help.

Electric_Haggis's Avatar Electric_Haggis 07:41 PM 06-12-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidog View Post

I have read through most of the posts in this thread, and
still can't determine the best speakers to use for my
surround channels and exactly where to locate them. Part
of the problem is that I haven't come across a configuration
that resembles mine exactly.

Details of my set-up:

o 5.1 DolbyDigital/DTS using core audio from BluRay
o Room dimensions are 15' wide x 20' long x 8' tall
o Front speakers are 9' apart on 15' wide wall
o Front left and front right are Proac Tablette 50
o Listening position is 14' from front wall, 6' from rear wall
o Due to room layout, surround speakers must be mounted on
rear wall

o Rear channels will be used primarily for movies, and
very rarely for music (SACD, etc)

I currently have in-wall wiring run to the rear wall. Two
single-gang boxes contain the wire, one for the left surround
and the other for the right surround. Each of these boxes is
located 7' high and 3' in from each corner. I am willing to
relocate these boxes if it will make a substantial difference,
but they must remain on rear wall.

Please advise as to which type of speaker would work best
as well as mounting location.

Thanks in advance.

That all sounds fine.
In your situation, I'd be running a pair of bipoles or quadpoles.

I'd aim for lower than 7 feet up - Ideally around a couple of feet above seated ear level.
Width-wise, 3 feet in from each side wall is fine, but around 2 feet or even less may well give more spread and bounce off the side walls.
A9X-308's Avatar A9X-308 07:42 PM 06-12-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallboy View Post

Would bipole/dipole surrounds not work well given the open right side of the room?

I would be more concerned with the LS being so close to the rear wall. I'd go with DRs, but I'm not fond of the DP/BP/Omni types I've tried for surrounds anyway. I'd use the same positioning.
Electric_Haggis's Avatar Electric_Haggis 07:56 PM 06-12-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallboy View Post

Hey everyone, I am going to be buying some rear surrounds soon and was wondering whether or not to just get direct radiators or dipole/bipole surrounds given the one side of the room being open. Here's a picture of my room setup and where I might be putting the surrounds. The seating is right beneath the projector.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2380/roomgu.jpg

Would bipole/dipole surrounds not work well given the open right side of the room?

Thanks for any help.

Dipoles, bipoles, quadpoles will all work well. Even in an uneven room like yours, the extra spread will help.
Dual-monopoles like mine would be stretching the friendship, though.

If I were you, I'd buy a pair of dipole/bipole-switchables. Ideally models with only one woofer either mounted to face the centre (like Monitor Audio) or angled towards the front (like Polk).
I'd also buy a pair Axiom Audios's QS8's.

I'd then try each pair, mounted around a couple of feet above ear level (experiment with this too), then get a refund on the weaker pair.

...and let us know how you go!
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 08:53 PM 06-12-2010
Just chiming in...........

Have two current rooms with 7.1.....one small, one large.

Upstairs is a small 10' X 13' room with a 45 degree sloped ceiling, I'm using Mirage Prestige Nanostats and couldn't be happier......bipole surround works best for the application.

On the other hand, downstairs in the main family room I have direct radiating speaker that are in wall............the room is 20' X 20" with 26' ceilings.........much different application, and a much different sound field. Dipoles nor bipoles would work in this huge room!

I must say, I prefer the upstairs room as the sound field is more to my taste. Who would have guessed?

With my new home construction breaking ground the end of this month, my dedicated theater will have 6 Triad in-room Gold surrounds..................going dipole and I'm not looking back!

For me, it's a personal taste..........I really enjoy the diffused sound.....I will never go back to direct radiating surrounds again.
deepstang's Avatar deepstang 11:53 AM 06-14-2010
Wallboy, with the relatively large distance between the listener and the surrounds I think you may be ok with a regular directional speaker. The extra money you would spend on a dipole/bipole can be invested in a better quailty bookshelf type surround. One of the cons of many bipole/dipole speakers is that due to size and cost, it is hard to get a pair that can competantly play down to 60-80Hz.

Jaidog, I am not sure if the trouble of relocating in-walls will yield a "substantial" gain. I was very satisfied with my surrounds when I had them mounted at that height and width from the sidewalls. I currently in-activated my in-wall and mounted bipoles on the back wall. It wasn't a night and day difference, but definitely an improvement.

DoubleWing11, you are installing a wicked set-up!! Triad is one amazing in-wall speaker.
mfahnestock's Avatar mfahnestock 02:40 PM 06-14-2010
I too am an avid dipole on the surrounds (doublewing I am jealous as I am only running the Bronze surrounds!), but based on that RS speaker being open, you are going to be losing some of your reflection from the dipole.

What's nice about dipole/bipole speakers are the great sound dispersion, but as many have stated, it comes down to a preferential thing. Based on the way your room is configured, I would probably go bipole on those surrounds to get some level of dispersion and to negate some of the openness on the RS so you get some toward the listening position. My 2 cents.
Krackar's Avatar Krackar 10:10 PM 06-24-2010
I currently have a 5.1 setup and am thinking about replacing my old bookshelfs that I'm using as surround speakers. I have a 7.1 receiver and was thinking about getting these http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...ine-S-Surround to match the rest of my system and get 7.1 out of the setup.

Would they work ok being used to make my 5.1 into a 7.1 setup?
Electric_Haggis's Avatar Electric_Haggis 10:30 PM 07-24-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krackar View Post

I currently have a 5.1 setup and am thinking about replacing my old bookshelfs that I'm using as surround speakers. I have a 7.1 receiver and was thinking about getting these http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...ine-S-Surround to match the rest of my system and get 7.1 out of the setup.

Would they work ok being used to make my 5.1 into a 7.1 setup?


Yep. They would work very nicely for 7.1 if you'd rather not run two separate pairs of surround speakers.

(Very similar to my Infinity ES-250's)
A9X-308's Avatar A9X-308 01:00 AM 07-25-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krackar View Post

I currently have a 5.1 setup and am thinking about replacing my old bookshelfs that I'm using as surround speakers. I have a 7.1 receiver and was thinking about getting these http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...ine-S-Surround to match the rest of my system and get 7.1 out of the setup.

Would they work ok being used to make my 5.1 into a 7.1 setup?

I'm dubious they'd be anywhere near as good as 4 correctly placed surrounds. In my not atypical living room set-up the difference between best side and rear is 2m and about 50-60° so having both surrounds near co-located is not going to give the same effect.
Electric_Haggis's Avatar Electric_Haggis 03:14 AM 07-25-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I'm dubious they'd be anywhere near as good as 4 correctly placed surrounds. In my not atypical living room set-up the difference between best side and rear is 2m and about 50-60° so having both surrounds near co-located is not going to give the same effect.

That's true... It'll never match 4 separate correctly placed surround speakers, but it will be a big improvement on a regular 5.1 setup - even on 5.1 material being upmixed to 7.1.
Phacoman's Avatar Phacoman 04:12 PM 08-10-2010
I have been getting differing opinions on this but I figured a few more differing opinions couldn't hurt.

My current theater does not have a back wall. It's in one end of a really large finished basement. I have polks for my main LCR speakers so I decided to get the polk owm3 for surrounds. Because of my room, I have them mounted a couple feet behind the rear row of seats and to the side but angle mounted so they fire towards the center and front. One of them is mounted on a support column, the other on the side wall. They are not great speakers...a little shrill and definitely can't reach any low frequencies.

I've been considering upgrade options such as the polk fxi-a4 but I don't think I can position them well. I obviously don't have a back wall to place them on. I could mount one on the right side wall but the left side wall has a window and french doors. The one area of normal wall on that side is in front of the seating area by a couple feet. Of course, I could also use that support column to the rear where I have the owm3 mounted.

How would you guys suggest I upgrade?
jayman_1975's Avatar jayman_1975 06:14 PM 08-19-2010
Hi all. I'm currently looking to add some surround speakers to my current rig. My room is not very large (16x14). My couch is on the rear wall so i am forced to put speakers in the rear corners of my room. I don't know much about surrounds as i have only used direct firing surrounds before in other systems. Would a dipole speaker work in this application? or should i stick to a direct firing speaker?

If a direct firing speaker is my only decent option then i will need something that i can hang on the wall somewhat like polk audio rti4 that has a bracket for wall mounting. I am looking for something a little classier and better quality though. Any ideas?
deepstang's Avatar deepstang 09:37 PM 08-19-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathelo View Post

But building a surround from something like the B&C 8CXT 8" Coaxial Driver

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...53&ctab=2#Tabs

should get pretty close. Just needs a crossover and a cab to complete the picture.

And Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Louis

Our situation sounds similar. I think that mounting direct firing speakers on the corner would work. It is good to try to get as close as possible in having the correct angles as specified on the Dolby Digital website.

To be honest, I WAS using in-walls for my rear surrounds in my 5.1, and they sounded great. I had the upgrade bug and wanted to see what bipoles/dipoles would sound like. My rationale was to use these great ES250s as bipoles, and it would basically be like having a speaker firing at a 100 degree angle to the listener....even with the couch on the back wall. I will post a pick to better illustrate what I am talking about.


jayman_1975's Avatar jayman_1975 10:37 PM 08-19-2010
Thanks for the reply. Your set up looks good. Unfortunately for me i also have a window on my back wall so i'm stuck with mounting something on the side walls directly in the corners.
deepstang's Avatar deepstang 07:42 AM 08-20-2010
Thanks!

Jayman, I think that would be just fine. I am a little rusty on my knowledge of bipole/dipoles...but from what i can remember, if you are mounting something on the sidewall dipoles are often recommended. It gets tricky when your seating is on the back wall b/c you can't fully take advantage of reflection. I think that mounting on the corner will be fine...but again, you may be better using a direct firing speaker on a stand facing towards the listener.

Here is a link to dolby's set-up page, to allow you to analyze the angles of your surround.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/...ide/index.html

Here is a link to the Polk website that gives a quick summary and diagram of bipole/dipole speakers.

http://www.polkaudio.com/education/t...icle.php?id=27
Landry's Avatar Landry 07:53 PM 09-24-2010
I currently have a 5.2 system and want to upgrade to a 7.2. I have all kef speakers (iq90 left and rights, iq60c center, iq30 surrounds) with the exception of my subs (both outlaw lfm-1 plus). I want to add dipole/bipole for my rears but not sure which ones would make a good match. I see that kef has some dipoles, the iq8ds but I cant seem to find many reviews at all about them, and the one i did was not that good. I have read good things about the axiom qs8, and polk fxi A4. Can anyone make any suggestions? Oh, I am running everything with a Pioneer vsx-1120 receiver and watching a Samsung pn63c8000 tv. I also will be using this for 99.9% hometheater use, very little if any music and if music is coming out of the speakers, it is my wife listening and she could care less what it sounds like. Movie use is my only concern!
Thanks!!
A9X-308's Avatar A9X-308 08:45 PM 09-24-2010
I'd just add another set of IQ30's to the rear.
Landry's Avatar Landry 09:11 PM 09-24-2010
I really need something that I can wall mount and the iq30's ate too deep for where I need them. 7-8in will be perfect as far as depth goes. They will go on the back wall with a sofa about 3 ft from it. The iq30's are just too deep. Otherwise they would have been my first choice. I also really want to try dipole/bipole speakers for movies. Based on what I have read I think I will like like the effect they produce as opposed to direct radiating.
palehorse's Avatar palehorse 10:19 PM 09-24-2010
^^^^ for most setups, you're going to want bipoles for the rear, not dipoles. Set only the sides to dipole mode. Just a suggestion...

I love my Emotiva ERD-1's. They're only 4.25" deep, and they have both settings.
drewh01's Avatar drewh01 10:40 PM 09-24-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

^^^^ for most setups, you're going to want bipoles for the rear, not dipoles. Set only the sides to dipole mode. Just a suggestion...

I love my Emotiva ERD-1's. They're only 4.25" deep, and they have both settings.

I agree, my new ERD's rock the house. Especially when I hooked them up properly. I made a stupid mistake and hooked them to the side rears output and not the main rears when I first got them. For the first day I could not understand why the sound was so faint......until I hooked them to the proper outputs. Now all is well again. Of course the XPA-5 helps!
Landry's Avatar Landry 11:45 PM 09-24-2010
The emotiva's were on my list, but my concern is that they are 4ohm. Would that cause a problem for my receiver? It's a pioneer vsx-1120.
palehorse's Avatar palehorse 06:41 AM 09-25-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landry View Post

The emotiva's were on my list, but my concern is that they are 4ohm. Would that cause a problem for my receiver? It's a pioneer vsx-1120.

Absolutely not, that's what I have. The 1120 runs them without breaking a sweat!
Electric_Haggis's Avatar Electric_Haggis 06:56 PM 09-25-2010
Don't forget to post your pics, by the way!
GLBright's Avatar GLBright 09:46 AM 09-26-2010
I've had a pair of Cambridge SoundWorks The Surround 5.1 (designed by Henry Kloss) for years.



Long ago I settled on the bipole mode, partly because adding the larger forward facing driver extends its LF cutoff, but also because I listen to multi-channel SACD/DVD-As. Dipole mode gives these music formats an artificial, unfocused sound quality. A couple months ago 5.1 became 7.1 due to receiver failure/replacement. After adding a pair of rear channel speakers (fortuitously found at the curb in a nearby subdivision prior to their being compacted by the local trash co.) I still prefer the bipole setting.
Leander311's Avatar Leander311 11:55 AM 10-15-2010
I'm looking to complete an "entry" 5.1 setup in our new house, and some small bi-pole (I think) Polks just went on the cheap at Newegg. For the WAF, I'd likely have to put any surrounds I choose about 8-9ft up on the side walls, I'm thinking 2-3 feet in front of our back wall. The room is 18x15x10, listening position about 3ft in front of the back wall, which is 15' wide.

Anyhow, these are the surrounds I'm considering: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882290220 They're $129/pr with coupon right now, wall hardware included although non-articulating. Might upgrade to an articulating mount later since I'm up so high but not real concerned at this time.

I'm running a Pioneer VSX-21 with Polk Monitor 70's L/R, CS2 center, and Outlaw LFM-1+ sub. All bought on the cheap, of course... It's hell refurbing a HUD repo! 75/25 Music/HT, as we are both classically-trained musicians.

Any grave concerns with this setup or other suggestions?

Thanks!
Electric_Haggis's Avatar Electric_Haggis 04:55 PM 10-15-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leander311 View Post

I'm looking to complete an "entry" 5.1 setup in our new house, and some small bi-pole (I think) Polks just went on the cheap at Newegg. For the WAF, I'd likely have to put any surrounds I choose about 8-9ft up on the side walls, I'm thinking 2-3 feet in front of our back wall. The room is 18x15x10, listening position about 3ft in front of the back wall, which is 15' wide.

Anyhow, these are the surrounds I'm considering: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882290220 They're $129/pr with coupon right now, wall hardware included although non-articulating. Might upgrade to an articulating mount later since I'm up so high but not real concerned at this time.

I'm running a Pioneer VSX-21 with Polk Monitor 70's L/R, CS2 center, and Outlaw LFM-1+ sub. All bought on the cheap, of course... It's hell refurbing a HUD repo! 75/25 Music/HT, as we are both classically-trained musicians.

Any grave concerns with this setup or other suggestions?

Thanks!


G'day.
All that sounds fine. Just a few things, though...

* I'd steer clear of those Polk RM8s. I'm sure they're decent enough speakers, but having only one tweeter on one side rather than two, is definitely a deal-breaker.
You'll get better a better spread of sound with a design like the Emotiva ERD-1, Paradigm ADP-190, or even quadpoles like the Axiom QS8.

* Having speakers that are dipole/bipole switchable is an advantage in that you can check and choose whatever works best. Additionally, if you were to add rear speakers in the future, you may well want switch the sides to dipole.

* Aim to go 7.1 if at all possible. It's a big improvement, and all 5.1 mixes (and 2.0 mixes) upconvert amazingly well to 7.1.
If you want to stick with two speakers, consider a dual-monopole-switchable speaker like the Infinity Classia C255ES or JBL P520WS.

* Don't be too concerned with having to buy a matching brand for your surrounds. What with the massively different positioning to your fronts, wall-mounting and reflections, it's a non-issue. Audyssey helps to correct for these differences, anyway.


* Placement-wise, aim to have your surrounds just behind the listening position if you're only going 5.1 with bipoles. This will give you a good blend of side/rear, allowing for bounce off the back wall.

* However, dipoles generally work best directly to the sides, rather than behind you. So if you choose dipole/bipole switchables, try testing them out in both modes in both positions, and see what you prefer.

Good luck, and let us know how you go!
palehorse's Avatar palehorse 06:45 PM 10-15-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post


G'day.
All that sounds fine. Just a few things, though...

* I'd steer clear of those Polk RM8s. I'm sure they're decent enough speakers, but having only one tweeter on one side rather than two, is definitely a deal-breaker.
You'll get better a better spread of sound with a design like the Emotiva ERD-1, Paradigm ADP-190, or even quadpoles like the Axiom QS8.

* Having speakers that are dipole/bipole switchable is an advantage in that you can check and choose whatever works best. Additionally, if you were to add rear speakers in the future, you may well want switch the sides to dipole.

* Aim to go 7.1 if at all possible. It's a big improvement, and all 5.1 mixes (and 2.0 mixes) upconvert amazingly well to 7.1.
If you want to stick with two speakers, consider a dual-monopole-switchable speaker like the Infinity Classia C255ES or JBL P520WS.

* Don't be too concerned with having to buy a matching brand for your surrounds. What with the massively different positioning to your fronts, wall-mounting and reflections, it's a non-issue. Audyssey helps to correct for these differences, anyway.

* Placement-wise, aim to have your surrounds just behind the listening position if you're only going 5.1 with bipoles. This will give you a good blend of side/rear, allowing for bounce off the back wall.

* However, dipoles generally work best directly to the sides, rather than behind you. So if you choose dipole/bipole switchables, try testing them out in both modes in both positions, and see what you prefer.

Good luck, and let us know how you go!

I have ERD's paired withe the same front 3 Leander311 has, and I love 'em!

For my current 5.1 setup, I have them set to bipole...
Leander311's Avatar Leander311 02:42 PM 10-17-2010
I wrote a thoughtful reply but it got deleted, doh!

In a nutshell, thanks for the thoughtful remarks. Very good input and points. The ERD-1 looks like a solid performer, and at a bargain price for such quality. I'm a sucker for value and want to do this right... Plus looks like it'd be much more visibly attractive installed. And agreed, a single tweeter does not make the Polk much of a bi-pole at all.

My only concern, it is clearly marketed as a 4-ohm product, while the Pio Elite VSX-21 is only 6-ohm stable. And I don't think the AVR has 6/8 ohm settings by speaker, but rather "all or none". Thoughts?
palehorse's Avatar palehorse 02:45 PM 10-17-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leander311 View Post

I wrote a thoughtful reply but it got deleted, doh!

In a nutshell, thanks for the thoughtful remarks. Very good input and points. The ERD-1 looks like a solid performer, and at a bargain price for such quality. I'm a sucker for value and want to do this right... Plus looks like it'd be much more visibly attractive installed. And agreed, a single tweeter does not make the Polk much of a bi-pole at all.

My only concern, it is clearly marketed as a 4-ohm product, while the Pio Elite VSX-21 is only 6-ohm stable. And I don't think the AVR has 6/8 ohm settings by speaker, but rather "all or none". Thoughts?

I leave my Pioneer 1120 set on 8 ohm, but it still has no problem at all pushing the 4-ohm ERD surrounds. You shouldn't have any issues.

Recommended mounting height is 1-3 ft above ear level while seated.

Good luck!
Tags: Infinity Es 250 Bipole Dipole Dual Monopole Surround Speaker
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