Why can't I find anything NEW to beat my OLD Pioneer HPM 100s? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 07-14-2007, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been on a speaker-auditionig mission for the last few months (building a home theater/stereo music system) in an attempt to find a left and right set that would be more approprite for this set-up than the Pioneer HPM-100 fronts I've been listening to for the last 15+ years.

So far, I've checked out the 600 and 700 Series B&Ws, Revel Concertas, Paradigm Studio 100s, Klipschs, and a few other assorted brands. While all of these speakers should be able to offer superior performance, I'm just not hearing it. None of them are as full (especially in the low-end) as the Pioneers and none of them seem to have the same balance and detail that the HPM-100s have. Music just seems more "natural" coming out of the HPM-100s. While I know that I can get more low-end extention once I add a sub, I'm just not hearing the improvement in performance that I think I should be hearing. Also, I regularly listen to music on Infinity Reference Six fronts, so it's not like I'm somehow LOCKED IN to this one set of speakers, making all others sound inferior just because they're different.

Any thoughts as to what the deal is here...expecially for those who have experience with the Pioneer HPM-100s? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 10 Old 07-15-2007, 06:59 AM
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Even with the handful of brands you mentioned you are just scratching the surface of what available. You need to keep searching. You ARE biased to something that sounds like the Pioneers you just have not found them. Listening to same speakers for 15 years will do that to you. The Pioneers are "reference" to which all others will be judged and you looking for something that sounds similar just "better". Do you know what "better" sounds like? My only suggestion is to audition more speakers in your own home for at least 2 weeks or more. This will give you the opportunity to untrain your brain and also give you a chance to compare them with the HPM100's. A couple demo hours at the dealer is not enough time to form a long term impression of a speaker, especially if you are biased.
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post #3 of 10 Old 07-15-2007, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueberryhead View Post

I've been on a speaker-auditionig mission for the last few months (building a home theater/stereo music system) in an attempt to find a left and right set that would be more approprite for this set-up than the Pioneer HPM-100 fronts I've been listening to for the last 15+ years.

So far, I've checked out the 600 and 700 Series B&Ws, Revel Concertas, Paradigm Studio 100s, Klipschs, and a few other assorted brands. While all of these speakers should be able to offer superior performance, I'm just not hearing it. None of them are as full (especially in the low-end) as the Pioneers and none of them seem to have the same balance and detail that the HPM-100s have. Music just seems more "natural" coming out of the HPM-100s. While I know that I can get more low-end extention once I add a sub, I'm just not hearing the improvement in performance that I think I should be hearing. Also, I regularly listen to music on Infinity Reference Six fronts, so it's not like I'm somehow LOCKED IN to this one set of speakers, making all others sound inferior just because they're different.

Any thoughts as to what the deal is here...expecially for those who have experience with the Pioneer HPM-100s? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

look at it this way if your happy with them then thats more money to use towards
other gear,music and movies.
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post #4 of 10 Old 07-15-2007, 08:56 AM
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Well It's quite possible there's simply no speaker out there you'll prefer to your Pioneers, and why not?

Note that the Pioneer HPMs were designed by Bart Locanthi, an ex JBL designer who'd worked on the JBL LE series drivers, the JBL acoustic lenses and several JBL systems. He was hired by Pioneer and designed the HPMs to JBL standards of construction. (At the time JBL quality wasn't bettered by anyone and few today match it.) Locanthi also designed the TAD drivers for Pioneer, drivers which are still considered by many to be the finest ever made.

So yeah, it's quite possible nothing out there will be preferable to you and for good reason. There's quite a HPM cult out there you know.


http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...=bart+locanthi
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post #5 of 10 Old 07-15-2007, 01:13 PM
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The construction of vintage speakers, i would say are superior to modern day speakers. Everything nowadays is MDF that MDF this, while older speakers actually are made of wood. Some speakers today are made of real wood but they still wont match your Pioneers. The way i see it, it's like a guitar; the wood gets aged and only sounds richer with time. Newer speakers wont have it.
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post #6 of 10 Old 07-15-2007, 03:42 PM
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MDF (not particle board) is actually a very effective material for speaker cabinet building; it's very dense and can be made very solid. Furthermore, you don't want to listen to your cabinets, you want to listen to the drivers. Cabinet ringing will only distort the sound coming from the speaker. It's even possible that the OP's Pioneer speakers cabinets are coloring the sound such that newer speakers sound different enough that he doesn't find anything new appealing. I don't know this for a fact, as I'm not familiar with those speakers.

An ideal speaker cabinet is dense and solidly braced so as not to color the sound. MDF is very good at this, properly implemented.
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post #7 of 10 Old 07-15-2007, 04:11 PM
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That is true. Then it's sort of like the tube vs solid state argument. Even though on paper, solid state beats tube everytime, somehow it sounds better to the human ear. There could be a lot of reasons, why you prefer one speaker over another.
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post #8 of 10 Old 07-15-2007, 07:17 PM
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MDF is actually superior to wood in terms of sonic inertness.

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post #9 of 10 Old 07-15-2007, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

MDF is actually superior to wood in terms of sonic inertness.

I never disputed that fact. I believe my point was that the wood may color the sound in a way that it would actually make it sound better (contrary to logic.) Like the way a tube amplifier would color the sound, but still sound better. And if there were to be a speaker made of wood today, it still would not sound the same as his Pioneers.


Sonic accuracy is one thing but the way a speaker or another component colors the sound and how the human ear percieves it is another thing. Some people actually like the colorations a tube amplifier gives out or in this case a speaker.
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post #10 of 10 Old 07-15-2007, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueberryhead View Post

Any thoughts as to what the deal is here...expecially for those who have experience with the Pioneer HPM-100s? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Stop looking for new speakers.

Russ
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