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post #301 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by tweeterex View Post

Z series BG-like?

Good call...

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post #302 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 10:16 AM
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Good call...

Hey, I remember you from "back in the day"...

I think it would be generally more useful if everyone new to these forums is reminded that they are constantly being marketed to and pitched by people who post their affiliations and many others who do not. This is all part of marketing and advertising and you, the consumer, are the targets.
Noth...
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post #303 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 11:32 AM
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My intrest in the acculine speakers are rising greatly.....I would love to get impressions of how it stacks up to both value bookshelf benchmark (Onyx x-LS) as well as my overall audio quality bookshelf (sub-$1000) benchmark (Paradigm Studio 20 v.4)


The price of these acculine speakers are just fantastic and the raves from craig are really getting to me


Out of curiosity, what country are the acculine speakers from?

China?

USA?

The UK?
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post #304 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 12:56 PM
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Oh and what do y'all think about the infiniy Beta 20s compared to some of the popular speakers mentioned in this thread, like the Swans 2.1SEs, the ERA D5s, the Sierra-1s and whatnot?
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post #305 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 01:04 PM
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Hi Jon,

You had mentioned in another post about a Dana model with a 6.5 inch midwoof. Is this still a go and if so, what will be the target price?
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post #306 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmoon View Post

You had mentioned in another post about a Dana model with a 6.5 inch midwoof. Is this still a go and if so, what will be the target price?

It is a go for around the first of the year. We'd estimate the pair at roughly $599.

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post #307 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 02:00 PM
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Those D2.1SE's look nice... VERY nice indeed.
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post #308 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLee View Post

My intrest in the acculine speakers are rising greatly.....I would love to get impressions of how it stacks up to both value bookshelf benchmark (Onyx x-LS) as well as my overall audio quality bookshelf (sub-$1000) benchmark (Paradigm Studio 20 v.4)


The price of these acculine speakers are just fantastic and the raves from craig are really getting to me

Order a set and send 'em back if you don't like them. Jon offers a money-back guarantee. You're just out the cost of shipping if you send them back. (Then let us know what you thought!)

If you can afford it, order both a set of Acculines and the X-LS so you can compare them in your own home. Send back the losers!
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post #309 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Lane View Post

Hi Ryan; they're 5.25" actually, which helps down that low.

Heya Jon; Dual 5.25">Dual 4.5" hehe that makes it more attractive. I hate to say it but I nearly dismissed them because I thought they had 4.5" drivers in. 4.5" are good for pure midrange but they don't like bass generally.

Those A3's with the A2 for the center is in the bunch of speakers that I'm considering now. It looks like it uses the Bohlender-Graebener Neo 3? I used to own a pair of Neo 3 raw drivers that I was thinking of putting in my car but I've given up on car audio and the massive amounts of customization to the car to get good sound. Anyway if they are the Neo 3's they get great reviews. If I may ask, who manufactures the 5.25" drivers? BG Neo 3 (If I'm correct) + aluminum drivers... no wonder why you call them Acculine.

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My Home Theater/Video Gaming/HTPC/2 Channel rig (Mitsubishi, MartinLogan, Marantz, DIYMA, and others)

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post #310 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 04:20 PM
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Ross,

Can you state your preferences between these speakers for music and home theater? It sounds like you prefer the Sierras for home theater due to "amazing dialogue clarity and outstanding off-axis dispersion" and the D2.1SE due to bass extension.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

Deathwish238, if you are still looking for bookshelf info, I have now had many hours of in-home listening to both the Swan D2.1SE and Ascend Sierra-1. They are both truly great speakers and which is preferred will probably be largely personal preference.

To my ears in my room, the D2.1SE is more laid back with a somewhat recessed midrange, placing you several rows back in the concert hall. The top-to-bottom balance is excellent with a little extra richness in the bass and lower mids. The treble is nuanced and detailed, and the bass is deep and powerful and sounds wonderful with no sub on music listening. The D2.1SE is quite inefficient and begs for a lot of high-current power to really open up (I used an Arragon 200-watt 8ohm/400-watt 4ohm amp and would want no less in my 2500c.f. sealed room in order to properly reproduce short-term dynamics).

The Sierras are more like sitting near the front row of the hall and are very open and engaging with a neutral balance across the frequency spectrum. The bass is not as extended as the Swan but it hits extremely tight and clean, while the treble is lively (but not at all harsh) and well integrated into the soundstage. The Sierra mids are really phenomenal - very full and transparent with loads of detail.

Both speakers image very nicely, with the Swans having a better sense of depth and hall ambience, and the Ascends (while still quite good on depth and ambience) seeming to image a little stronger laterally.

From classical to jazz to pop/rock, the Sierras really excelled with rhythm and pace and continually drew me into the performance. For home theater, using a quality sub or two crossed over at 80hz, the Sierras provide amazing dialogue clarity and outstanding off-axis dispersion, and in practice they need about 3db less volume compared to the D2.1SE due to being a bit more efficient and to sounding more present/less recessed.

Hope this helps somewhat. Again, these are both quality speakers and deserving of an audition.

Cheers,
Ross

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post #311 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson73 View Post

Ross,

Can you state your preferences between these speakers for music and home theater? It sounds like you prefer the Sierras for home theater due to "amazing dialogue clarity and outstanding off-axis dispersion" and the D2.1SE due to bass extension.

Honestly, it's a really tough call and I have been going back and forth all week long with both speakers on a variety of source material. If pressed, I guess I would say the Sierras for HT have an edge IMO due to the clarity and more forward stage and the increased efficiency, and they are also great on music. But when set up properly (at least 2.5ft from the front wall and with lots of high-current juice) the D2.1SE's are able to do something on music that sometimes seems more natural, more concert hall-like, if also a tad less exciting. The bass and lower mids on the Swans is romantic and seductive.

Really difficult decision for me to make, they are both excellent and deserve to be heard.
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post #312 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Lane View Post

It is a go for around the first of the year. We'd estimate the pair at roughly $599.

Jon ... I'm a resident of Reno, NV and see from your site that your mailing address is here. Do you have a showroom or the ability to audition any equipment in Reno? Also, do you ship from Reno, or can a customer pick up product in person here?
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post #313 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post

Those A3's with the A2 for the center is in the bunch of speakers that I'm considering now. It looks like it uses the Bohlender-Graebener Neo 3?

Correct, but it should be pointed out that it's the Neo 3 and not the Neo 3 PDR. The former has quite a bit more sensitivity, but the latter has broader dispersion. Our thinking is that in multi-channel work, driven by the more modest amps found in its price range, and at the Acculine's value, we made the right choice.

Quote:


If I may ask, who manufactures the 5.25" drivers?

They're proprietary. They're made by the OSM responsible for the entire product. An interesting little part, with a polymer chassis, hefty motor, and a nicely finished alloy cone.

Quote:


BG Neo 3 (If I'm correct) + aluminum drivers... no wonder why you call them Acculine.

Thanks. They measure well and the crossover work is smart, if I say myself. We think they may be up to the task.

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post #314 of 344 Old 08-28-2007, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm View Post

Jon ... I'm a resident of Reno, NV and see from your site that your mailing address is here. Do you have a showroom or the ability to audition any equipment in Reno? Also, do you ship from Reno, or can a customer pick up product in person here?

We'll be doing limited, invitation-only demos this fall in a few location. You may want to drop us an email.

We ship mostly from Reno and yes, customers can visit our warehouse for pickups (and freight fees savings).

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post #315 of 344 Old 08-29-2007, 01:00 PM
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This has been a great thread for someone looking for bookshelf speakers under $1k. I'm pretty sold on the Sierras, but noticed that I can pay for airfare to Maui with the savings if I settle for 2 pairs of Rocket RS250 MKII's with a Bigfoot Center. I haven't seen the Rockets mentioned here except for a comment not recommending for 2 channel audio. I'm 80% HT, 10% games, and 10% music, and I have an SVS Sub.

My sense is that Sierra, Swan, ERA, NHT, etc... will noticably outperform the Rockets in 2 channel music. What about home theater? I know this thread isn't about center speakers, but will the Rocket center help level the playing field against the higher end Sierra's for HT? I appreciate any feedback on the Rockets in general or even how the others compare to each other for HT versus music. Thanks.
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post #316 of 344 Old 08-29-2007, 09:16 PM
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Quick question has anyone heard the Monitor Audio S2? I better the Sierras beat it out. But how does it compare to the Classic 3's or D5. I see them on sale for under 500. Dont know anything about them though
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post #317 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 09:13 AM
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Since the Sierras are sufficiently different from any of the above speakers (except the D5s, of course), it would be more appropriate to talk about the differences rather than who's being "beat out". They should have very good resolution, but may have some of the downsides of using a metal driver in a 2-way. All these speakers have different compromises.

John
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post #318 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmason View Post


My sense is that Sierra, Swan, ERA, NHT, etc... will noticably outperform the Rockets in 2 channel music.

Preference goes a long way.The 250s use great parts,and are built just as good,if not better as the others.Until you listen to them side by side I would hold off on that judgment.IMO these are just consumers with opinions that have helped you develop this "sense".Take the time to listen for yourself.
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post #319 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Since the Sierras are sufficiently different from any of the above speakers (except the D5s, of course), it would be more appropriate to talk about the differences rather than who's being "beat out". They should have very good resolution, but may have some of the downsides of using a metal driver in a 2-way. All these speakers have different compromises.

Sierras don't have a metal driver.

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post #320 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 46minaudio View Post

IMO these are just consumers with opinions that have helped you develop this "sense".Take the time to listen for yourself.

Agreed. This can not be stressed enough.

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post #321 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 11:08 AM
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Rossandwendy, a followup on the Music vs HT application of the Sierra vs the Swan 2.1.

You noted a distance need the Swans have of about 2.5'. In a pure music situation where the speaker would have to be about 6" from the wall would your judgement change or would it still be with the Swans? Asking of course because I'm stuck with my speakers in corners about 6" from the wall and no way to reconfigure.
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post #322 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by critterjr View Post

Rossandwendy, a followup on the Music vs HT application of the Sierra vs the Swan 2.1.

You noted a distance need the Swans have of about 2.5'. In a pure music situation where the speaker would have to be about 6" from the wall would your judgement change or would it still be with the Swans? Asking of course because I'm stuck with my speakers in corners about 6" from the wall and no way to reconfigure.

In my room, the D2.1SE really blossomed when pulled out 2.5ft from the front wall (much deeper soundstage) whereas I liked the overall sound of the Sierras better when they were 18" from the wall. But I suspect these distances will differ based on the individual room and listener and cannot say how either would be at only 6", although from my experience with a variety of speakers I've owned, being that close to the front wall is not going to allow most any speaker to image well and may increase brightness/harshness due to front-wall reflections smearing the direct sound...maybe others will have recommendations of a model that does well 6" away, perhaps one with more controlled dispersion and not prone to bass heaviness when close to a room boundary.

Cheers,
Ross
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post #323 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

perhaps one with more controlled dispersion and not prone to bass heaviness when close to a room boundary.

You can't really control dispersion of bass that much. Starting at around 200hz, it the dispersion is very close to 360 degrees. The best you can do is dipole bass, which effectively removes the side walls from the equation (but not the front wall).
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post #324 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

You can't really control dispersion of bass that much. Starting at around 200hz, it the dispersion is very close to 360 degrees. The best you can do is dipole bass, which effectively removes the side walls from the equation (but not the front wall).

Lindahl, I was not referring to trying to control bass dispersion which is of course essentially omnidirectional below a certain frequency as you say, but I can see my post was not worded very clearly - I was referring to two different problems associated with placement that is too close to the front or side walls based on my listening to various speakers in my home for the past 23 years and reading about placement issues: 1) bass heaviness or bloat and 2) smearing/reflections in the mids & treble, the latter made more problematic in a wide-dispersion speaker vs. one with more directivity. For the above two reasons most speakers are best given some breathing room from the front wall, and the 6" the poster says he has to work with may prove problematic, unless you or others know of a speaker designed to sound good when placed that close...

Cheers,
Ross
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post #325 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

I have now had many hours of in-home listening to both the Swan D2.1SE and Ascend Sierra-1. They are both truly great speakers and which is preferred will probably be largely personal preference...

Cheers,
Ross

Ross (& all),

Have you ever had the opportunity to listen to or review B&W DM602's?

If yes...how would you compare the Swan D2.1SE and Ascend Sierra-1
sound to the B&W602's?

I have a pair of DM602 S1's that I would like to move to surround duty.
Was considering buying a set of the new B&W600 series to replace the 602's up front...but after reading thru this thread I see there may be other options.

I have an Outlaw990 Pre-Pro and Outlaw 7125 Amp.

Also, would a mismatch between front and surrounds create sonic issues?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Pete
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post #326 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptlurking View Post

Ross (& all),

Have you ever had the opportunity to listen to or review B&W DM602's?

If yes...how would you compare the Swan D2.1SE and Ascend Sierra-1
sound to the B&W602's?

I have a pair of DM602 S1's that I would like to move to surround duty.
Was considering buying a set of the new B&W600 series to replace the 602's up front...but after reading thru this thread I see there may be other options.

I have an Outlaw990 Pre-Pro and Outlaw 7125 Amp.

Also, would a mismatch between front and surrounds create sonic issues?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Pete

I had a pair of DM602 S2s for a while, not bad at all though to me the highs were a bit grainy, for lack of a better word. I definitely prefer the mids and highs on my Ascend CBM-170SEs. The Sierras are obviously quite a bit better than the 170s so I imagine you'd hear quite an upgrade from your S1s to the Sierras.

My 602s had quite nice bass extension and a nice big sound. The Sierras are supposed to have very good low end extension as well, and the Swan D2.1SEs are supposed to be even better. I will have a set of the Swans in a few days and I'll be posting my impressions soon thereafter.

I can tell you this -- I have Swan 5.2 mains (towers) and the mids and highs are, to me, definitely cleaner and sweeter than the B&W DM602 S2s I had. The D2.1SEs are described on TAI as the "high end" version of the Swan line so they should be even better than the 5.2s (within their frequency range of course).

I haven't heard the new B&W 685s so I can't compare anything to them. I'd like to, they're probably quite good.

I don't think you'll have any real issues with the 602 S1s in back, unless you buy front speakers with an extremely different sound or unless you're listening very critically to multichannel audio. It's generally considered more important to timbre-match your mains with your center than with the surrounds. I'm using Swans across the front with Ascend 170SEs in back and it sounds absolutely fine to me.
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post #327 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 05:20 PM
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Another thought for you -- B&Ws hold their value very well, even older ones. If you don't like how your 602s sound in back, you should be able to get a good price for them on eBay or even Audiogon.
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post #328 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by einsteinjb View Post

...I will have a set of the Swans in a few days and I'll be posting my impressions soon thereafter...

Einstein:
Thank-you for your feedback.
While I have been very happy with my 602's, I do think they are just a wee bit strong in the upper mid range (forward?). That being said, I think they were the best sounding speaker of the old B&W 600 series.
I hope to listen to some 685's this weekend.

I do look forward to reading your impressions of the Swan's.
When you write your review it would be very interesting to hear your impression / comparison to other speakers you have owned...including your old B&W 602 S2's

Thanks again

Pete
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post #329 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 07:10 PM
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I'll definitely be doing that, though I am 100% confident these new Swans are much better than my old 602 S2s. I'll also be comparing them to a ridiculous set of $5000 Dali Helicon 800 towers. I know that's stupid, but since they'll be in the same room side by side for the first day or two, why not.

Make sure you keep an eye on Craigsub's threads. You probably know about the huge shootouts he's currently working on and the get together on 9/22...
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post #330 of 344 Old 08-30-2007, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by einsteinjb View Post

are much better than my old 602 S2s. I'll also be comparing them to a ridiculous set of $5000 Dali Helicon 800 towers.

einstein...have you heard the smaller Helicons? I heard the Helicon 300, and did not like it one bit.

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