Help- where do I put my rear speakers in this room? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I am really excited to get my new projector in this week (HD1000U) and receiver (Yamaha RXV661) and get it all set up for movie watching. I also have a BIC H-100 sub on order as well. Now I need to focus on figuring out speakers. I currently have my old Yamaha speaker system stored away (2) NS-A2835 towers, (2) NS-A636 surround, and (2) NS-A76 rears. I have not even used them since I moved into this house. When I moved in about 1.5 years ago, the house already had two speakers built into the vaulted ceiling. I really enjoy the clean look of the in-wall speakers, and I would like to buy the rest of the speakers for the 7.1 setup to go into the wall as well. My only dilemma is placement- and primarily for the back speakers since I really have no back wall per se since there is only a bar/ counter that seperates the living room from the kitchen...

Below is a layout of the room with what would be the ideal primary viewing/ listening location per this guide as shown.





Below is the North wall with perspective speaker locations green, blue, or yellow or something else??? I can not quite get 45° separation from the viewing area on the front speakers unless I move them up higher above as shown with the blue option.



And this is the toughest decision I think- the south wall where majority of the seating is: Do I point the back speakers down, or is facing forward best for optimum sound? The dilemma here is that my only option for facing them forward puts them at a minimum of 9.5' high. (The image below is hard to depict, but the back wall is vertically straight up; only the side walls are vaulted.) I am afraid at that height, they would be very hard to hear if facing forward. Am I correct here? Should I do downward facing speakers as shown in the green or yellow, or should I point them forward as shown in blue?



Room dimensions are ~17.5'x17.5' with the vaulted ceiling that starts sloping at 9' and goes up to 12' in the center at the highest point.

Thanks guys for any input
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post #2 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 08:58 PM
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Check out Speakercraft in-ceilings and in-walls.

www.speakercraft.com

With Speakercraft you can AIM the drivers to your listening area. With other in-ceiling, in-walls you can only aim the tweeter.

Look at the in-wall Cinema series.

http://www.speakercraft.com/#Product...Cinema%20Three

and the in-ceiling AIM8's

http://www.speakercraft.com/#Products:16:AIM8%20Three
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post #3 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:08 PM
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First off, that screen is much higher than is ideal... I suspect you know that and probably don't have a choice (don't you have a basement you can make a dedicated theater?).

Assuming this is what you've got to work with you I think you're still better off having the front speakers at listening level (yellow in your pics) than way up high (greens in your pics). The sound will be totally spacey if they are up so high...

Then, I'd forget the center completely and get some extra-nice fronts and let them handle the center (dialog) sound. Otherwise your sound will be completely confused with sound coming from all different directions in front.

For the rears I'd go with some dipoles/bipoles in one of the green positions. You don't want those surrounds to be directional anyway.

That's my 2 cents anyway.
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post #4 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL yeah, I wish I had a basement, but yes- this is all I have to work with

Thanks for the input, I know this is less than ideal setup, but I am not shooting for the moon here, just want some decent evening entertainment. And the screen is too high also, I know... Glad I'm not an audiophile or videophile yet anyways

Thanks again guys, and thanks mazersteven for the links- I will check them out
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post #5 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:22 PM
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I think you'll be suprised at how good your setup will sound as long as you get high quallity in-walls/in-ceilings and you don't overly creative with that speaker positioning!

Edit: Oh yeah, don't forget at least one nice quality sub. That will make a big difference.
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post #6 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevychad View Post


Thanks again guys, and thanks mazersteven for the links- I will check them out

Also check out these for the rears.

http://www.speakercraft.com/#Product...20Wide%20Three
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post #7 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnn1265 View Post

I think you'll be suprised at how good your setup will sound as long as you get high quallity in-walls/in-ceilings and you don't overly creative with that speaker positioning!

Edit: Oh yeah, don't forget at least one nice quality sub. That will make a big difference.

I have already decided to try the BIC H-100 sub for now (currently on order). I'll see how it goes. I can always upgrade the sub pretty easily

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazersteven View Post

Also check out these for the rears.

http://www.speakercraft.com/#Product...20Wide%20Three

Will do. Just got done looking through your setup on webshots... Very nice!
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post #8 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazersteven View Post

Also check out these for the rears.

http://www.speakercraft.com/#Product...20Wide%20Three

Be careful, with that room and setup I'm not sure I'd bother with 7.1... I don't think you'll have anything to gain over a 5.1 setup in that barn... I mean room!
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post #9 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnn1265 View Post

Be careful, with that room and setup I'm not sure I'd bother with 7.1... I don't think you'll have anything to gain over a 5.1 setup in that barn... I mean room!

I'm not standing in his room, but from what I see there should be no problem doing 7.1 in-ceiling. If that is what the OP wants.

I would spread the rear speakers out a little more. Maybe as far out as your A/C vents. Like I said I'm not standing in your room, but it looks like it would work with the right speakers. JMO
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post #10 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay- just checked out the speakercraft series. They look very good, but are WAY WAY out of my price range. I need something like in the $600~$700 range for everything...
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post #11 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevychad View Post

Okay- just checked out the speakercraft series. They look very good, but are WAY WAY out of my price range. I need something like in the $600~$700 range for everything...


Everything? Hope your not wanting good sound.

Maybe you might want to think about purchasing your speakers a pair at a time and put this system together over time.
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post #12 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazersteven View Post

I'm not standing in his room, but from what I see there should be no problem doing 7.1 in-ceiling. If that is what the OP wants.

I would spread the rear speakers out a little more. Maybe as far out as your A/C vents. Like I said I'm not standing in your room, but it looks like it would work with the right speakers. JMO

What A/C vents? There is only 1 vent in the south wall picture on the ceiling. Those are the existing in-wall speakers you see on the side walls there. The current placement of the concept (colored) speakers are about 8' apart on the back wall.
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post #13 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazersteven View Post

Everything? Hope your not wanting good sound.

Maybe you might want to think about purchasing your speakers a pair at a time and put this system together over time.

Maybe I should use my existing speakers then and save up for the in wall/ceiling...

*sigh*

Here is kind of what I originally had in mind.

http://www.home-technology-store.com...-IWC1-KIT.aspx

I don't need top of the line, I just want something decent sounding. Hell, I'm pretty happy now with my current in-wall speakers by themselves. Just looking for an entry level 7.1 setup. I wouldn't know any better I don't think as I have never heard top of the line stuff in person anyways...
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post #14 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazersteven View Post

I'm not standing in his room, but from what I see there should be no problem doing 7.1 in-ceiling. If that is what the OP wants.

I would spread the rear speakers out a little more. Maybe as far out as your A/C vents. Like I said I'm not standing in your room, but it looks like it would work with the right speakers. JMO

I didn't mean he couldn't do 7.1 but rather that I don't think he'll benefit and he'd be better off putting the $$$ into the two fronts.
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post #15 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:04 PM
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If I were to need in-ceiling speakers, I would look at the "B-Flats" that ACI sells. I have a lot of the respect for ACI and the sound quality of their speakers that I have heard, so I wouldn't hesitate in giving the B-Flats a chance.

http://audioc.com/speakers1/speakers.htm#inwall

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post #16 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevychad View Post

What A/C vents? There is only 1 vent in the south wall picture on the ceiling. Those are the existing in-wall speakers you see on the side walls there. The current placement of the concept (colored) speakers are about 8' apart on the back wall.

Well those could be your side surrounds, and the yellow your back surrounds.
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post #17 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mazersteven View Post

Everything? Hope your not wanting good sound.

Maybe you might want to think about purchasing your speakers a pair at a time and put this system together over time.

Wait a minute, that's not being fair. He sure can get "good" sound for $700 in there. I agree he can't get very good or great sound but good is do-able.

He has a sub. All he needs is front Left and Right (a $500 pair of Paradigm CS or other comparable speakers will sound good). Then, buy a $200 pair for the surrounds and you'll get enough out of them to do what you need of surrounds.

You mentioned you already have speakers in the ceiling, can you use those?

I don't think you should give up just because someone shot down your budget...

Edit: Oh, I see the existing speakers - yeah, use those as surrounds and if you realy need rears put them where you indicated in back. Othewise if you can settle for 5.1 (which I recommend) put the entire $700 into some sweet fronts.

Very little information is carried in the two rear speakers for 7.1 and there's not even many movies using it yet... it's far from critical to have 7.1 and you can always upgrade when more movies start utilizing the extra channels.
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post #18 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevychad View Post

Here is kind of what I originally had in mind.

http://www.home-technology-store.com...-IWC1-KIT.aspx

I don't need top of the line, I just want something decent sounding. Hell, I'm pretty happy now with my current in-wall speakers by themselves. Just looking for an entry level 7.1 setup. I wouldn't know any better I don't think as I have never heard top of the line stuff in person anyways...

I haven't heard those so I can't comment on them. I just know that better speakers product better detail and clarity. It's awesome when you hear things you never heard before even in a movie you've seen a dozen times before.
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post #19 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mazersteven View Post

Well those could be your side surrounds, and the yellow your back surrounds.

Yes, that is the idea- use the existing ones as the side surrounds. They are already in a decent location for such utilization Can't really move them now anyways. I just need to know where to put the fronts and rears. So for the rears, you think yellow? What advantage does that have over green?

cschang-thanks for the link- those are more in the range I am looking at

Thanks for all the help everyone
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post #20 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:12 PM
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Wow, this thread is moving fast!

I edited my previous post... why do you need 7.1?
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post #21 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevychad View Post

Yes, that is the idea- use the existing ones as the side surrounds. They are already in a decent location for such utilization Can't really move them now anyways. I just need to know where to put the fronts and rears. So for the rears, you think yellow? What advantage does that have over green?



If I'm seeing right the wall under the yellow is a vertical wall. The speakers can directed straight down to the listening area. The green look to be in another room and the column is in the way? Hard to say looking at the pic.
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post #22 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, this thread is moving fast!

I edited my previous post... why do you need 7.1?

LOL yes- for sure, hard to keep up with everything. Don't you guys sleep? LOL

I really don't know why I need 7.1, I just figured I have the capability in the receiver now, may as well hook it all up. I'd like the peace of mind knowing I am utilizing and taking advantage of everything I have. I may try the 5.1 for now and see how it sounds...

On the front- why not have a center channel tho? I know it is high, but when I am sitting anywhere from 11.6' to almost 16' back, will it really sound that "spacey"? I would think the sound would disperse a little by that far back? The top of the mantle is 60" high FWIW...
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post #23 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazersteven View Post

If I'm seeing right the wall under the yellow is a vertical wall. The speakers can directed straight down to the listening area. The green look to be in another room and the column is in the way? Hard to say looking at the pic.

You are correct. I see what you are saying now with the vertical wall directing the sound more down. Good point, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the input, you all have been very helpful. This is a great forum
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post #24 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevychad View Post

LOL yes- for sure, hard to keep up with everything. Don't you guys sleep? LOL

I really don't know why I need 7.1, I just figured I have the capability in the receiver now, may as well hook it all up. I'd like the peace of mind knowing I am utilizing and taking advantage of everything I have. I may try the 5.1 for now and see how it sounds...

On the front- why not have a center channel tho? I know it is high, but when I am sitting anywhere from 11.6' to almost 16' back, will it really sound that "spacey"? I would think the sound would disperse a little by that far back? The top of the mantle is 60" high FWIW...

I'm not trying to discourage you but you'll get a lot more for your limited budget investing in a better 5.1 (like I said very little will even be coming out the rear surrounds for most material). I'm doing 7.1 but my budget (and room) isn't limiting.

If you want a center you can mount it way up there and point it down at the listener but again I don't think that will get you better sound than letting the L and R do the work... especially considering by buying a center you'll be knocking your budget for the R and L way down.
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post #25 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 10:31 PM
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Again this is Just My Opinion.

I would purchase the two main left and right speakers. Use the existing rears for now. Purchase a center channel once more funds are available. Then the rear surrounds once more funds again are available. And purchase better surround to replace the exiting surrounds once again, when more funds are available. And last but not least. I would up-grade the sub once again, when more funds are available.
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post #26 of 27 Old 07-29-2007, 11:29 PM
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mazersteven, I agree that would be a good plan.

The L & R fronts are most important so get the best you can manage. Then you can even try the two fronts without a center for a little while and decide if you're missing something in the dialog. Sitting back 12-16' with your fronts that close together my guess is you may not need a center. However, if you decide to get one you can follow the upgrade path mazersteven suggested.
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post #27 of 27 Old 07-31-2007, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I think for now, I am going to use my existing speakers and play around with positioning and see what I like. Once I am satisfied with where the sound is coming from, and what sounds the best to me I will then get the in-wall setup. That also gives me time to grow my budget as needed.
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