The BEST speakers under $10,000 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 07:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

why don't you just clear this up right now. when you post about the sound of speakers, are you posting it as opinion or fact?

I am posting that what I say is, in my opinion, a fact.
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post #92 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 07:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

what a jackass

just my opinion

I second that opinion.
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post #93 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Zissou View Post

Just like you said about B&W last year. Should dig some posts out.
Well with your hearing and financial issues at least you'll never have to worry about actually buying good speakers.

It is true that one cannot do better than the top of the B&W line. It is also true, however, that one can do equally well for less money by buying Def Tech.
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post #94 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

That information should really be in your signature. Dynaudio is the real deal.

For the record, I'd look at Dynaudio, Revel, B&W, Aerial, and a few others. I will not spam you by suggesting Triad, but I certainly have a $10,300 2.1 system in mind...


Good idea Paul.

Mick

Remember, it is all about the music not the sound!
Mick Tillman
Dynaudio N/A-distributors of Dynaudio, Octave, Theory and Application.
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post #95 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I am posting that what I say is, in my opinion, a fact.

And that's all you need to say...that sums you up in a nutshell.

J.

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post #96 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

It is true that one cannot do better than the top of the B&W line. It is also true, however, that one can do equally well for less money by buying Def Tech.

So are you saying that the top of the line B&W is the best there is and then saying that Def Tech makes a speaker that is just as good?

J.

Custom Built For The Win!
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post #97 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonColeman View Post

And that's all you need to say...that sums you up in a nutshell.

J.

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post #98 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 08:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonColeman View Post

So are you saying that the top of the line B&W is the best there is and then saying that Def Tech makes a speaker that is just as good?

J.

Correct.
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post #99 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 08:23 AM
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clink, clank, etc . . .

the sound of chains being pulled

Mike Dzurko
Audio Concepts, Inc. (ACI)
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post #100 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 08:29 AM
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do you have your answer yet Hawk_Eye?


All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
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post #101 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

when i posted my first post about this (post#69), you responded to me as if i was directing my comments at you. i wasn't

You were asking a question in the thread. I was answering. I knew it wasn't directed at me personally.

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
-- Saint Jerome (374 AD - 419 AD)

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post #102 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 09:51 AM
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This post from Craig deserves to be posted again in my opinion. It is this simple: opinions are opinions, facts are facts, they are not the same thing. And there is no way to spin it other wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post


Originally Posted by otk View Post
"so why doesn't his opinion count?
people can't change their mind about what they like?"

It might have something to do with Pulliam's inability to post something as opinion. He states things as a fact.

Originally Posted by pulliam
"In point of fact, you do not own any speakers substantially better, because they don't exist. I know this because I have heard vastly more expensive speakers that are not much better (not even much better than the relatively inexpensive Def Techs that I own, much less the flagship of their line.)
Claiming that you have to spend anywhere near $10K to get stunning performance kills any semblance of credibility you think you have and makes you appear ridiculous."

Sure, he is entitled to his opinion. He thinks there is no reason to spend more than what it costs to purchase Def Techs. When it is his system, and his money, that is fine.

But to tell others that they have not heard ANY speakers which were substantially better than HIS choice is pretty lame.

And I say this as a guy who has owned a lot more Def Tech stuff than has Pulliam.

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post #103 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 11:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFirst View Post

It is this simple: opinions are opinions, facts are facts, they are not the same thing. And there is no way to spin it other wise.

OK, then here are the facts about my Def Techs (which are not even their top of the line.) They have:
1)Truly full-range performance, extending well beyond the limits of human hearing on both ends of the spectrum.
2)Tight, detailed, bass.
3)Pinpoint precise imaging in all 3 dimensions
4)Accurate tonal balance, with no emphasis or deemphasis on any part of the spectrum.
5)No audible distortion, even on passages with densely layered harmonics.
6)Dynamic range equivalent to a live concert.
7)The ability to handle 4X the maximum power output of my amplifier.
8)A soundstage capable of extending not just beyond the speakers but beyond the walls of the room if the material calls for it.

If there are other things one could want from speakers, I don't know what they are. With studio recordings, I hear every detail regardless of how subtle. With live recordings, I close my eyes and I am there.
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post #104 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

OK, then here are the facts about my Def Techs (which are not even their top of the line.) They have:
1)Truly full-range performance, extending well beyond the limits of human hearing on both ends of the spectrum.
2)Tight, detailed, bass.
3)Pinpoint precise imaging in all 3 dimensions
4)Accurate tonal balance, with no emphasis or deemphasis on any part of the spectrum.
5)No audible distortion, even on passages with densely layered harmonics.
6)Dynamic range equivalent to a live concert.
7)The ability to handle 4X the maximum power output of my amplifier.
8)A soundstage capable of extending not just beyond the speakers but beyond the walls of the room if the material calls for it.

If there are other things one could want from speakers, I don't know what they are. With studio recordings, I hear every detail regardless of how subtle. With live recordings, I close my eyes and I am there.

actually in feb 1991 issue of stereo review, they measured the bp-10s as:

"The overall response variation was only
±3.5 dB from 25 to 20,000 Hz. Even at 20 Hz,
the output was down a mere 5 or 6 dB
from the average level at higher frequencies."

not really true "full range" but close enough for "most" music

the bp-7000's are true full-range towers

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
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post #105 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

OK, then here are the facts about my Def Techs (which are not even their top of the line.) They have:
1)Truly full-range performance, extending well beyond the limits of human hearing on both ends of the spectrum.
2)Tight, detailed, bass.
3)Pinpoint precise imaging in all 3 dimensions
4)Accurate tonal balance, with no emphasis or deemphasis on any part of the spectrum.

I am glad you love your speakers. As I recall you have the BP10's I think? In any case I quoted the first four "facts" you wrote, because while they are "facts" to you, you are still confused about facts and opinions as they relate to everyone else in the world. Those four are your opinion of your BP10's in relation to what you are hearing. So while they may be "your truth" that does not mean that they are everyone else's "truth". By definition that makes them your opinions...... PERIOD!

I have owned tons of speakers over the years, and for the first time in my life I tried Def. Techs. (BP7002sc) I picked them up on last Thur. night and set them up according to exactly how Chet (from Def. Tech.) instructed me to. I also tried all positions possible just to hear the differences. After many hours of listening, my opinion of those four "facts" of yours is vastly different then is yours. Does that make you or me right or wrong? No, not in my opinion.

The soundstage was indeed huge! But the NHT M6's in my opinion had imaging that was far more accurate. My stand alone sealed sub went audibly deeper, and was far tighter in my opinion. And on the top end, the highs were much cleaner with the M6's.

Just because I don't agree with you does not make your opinion wrong, but it does prove to me (and to many others who have heard properly setup Def. Techs. and had similar opinions to mine) that your opinion is indeed not "FACT". Period!

MF
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post #106 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 12:43 PM
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Personally, I'd spend that $10k on three sets of lesser speakers, and have fun swapping them out all the time. I'd go onto Audiogon and get a pair of mini-monitors, a pair of planars, and a pair of floor-standing full-range speakers.

I wouldn't have achieved your goal of having the best speakers under $10k, but I think I'd have a lot more fun with the three different sets of speakers.
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post #107 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 12:52 PM
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Quote:


Which is exactly why you can only afford rather awful speakers.


Geesh, That wasnt needed

To the person that posted this, show us your system?

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #108 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 01:11 PM
 
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Wow, this thread got unhelpful and immature very fast.
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post #109 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 01:39 PM
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You know all this talk about the speakers and no thought of what amplifiers it will take to drive them sufficiently......u really need to understand that u are going to need to spend at least 2-5k on a quality amp, not to mention preamp/receiver and a quality source....IMO sound comes as a result of all 4 products working together.......so what have you allocated for the entire system? ....you will probably need an additional 7-10k for the entire package to achieve the best sound from your choice of speaker in that range....
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post #110 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 01:41 PM
 
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Wow, this thread got unhelpful and immature very fast.

Kind of what you did to the speaker cable thread in the high end, hey chris!
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post #111 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMAIN64 View Post

You know all this talk about the speakers and no thought of what amplifiers it will take to drive them sufficiently......u really need to understand that u are going to need to spend at least 2-5k on a quality amp, not to mention preamp/receiver and a quality source....IMO sound comes as a result of all 4 products working together.......so what have you allocated for the entire system? ....you will probably need an additional 7-10k for the entire package to achieve the best sound from your choice of speaker in that range....

Don't forget those very expensive exotic cables!

J.

Custom Built For The Win!
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post #112 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhue View Post

Personally, I'd spend that $10k on three sets of lesser speakers, and have fun swapping them out all the time. I'd go onto Audiogon and get a pair of mini-monitors, a pair of planars, and a pair of floor-standing full-range speakers.

I wouldn't have achieved your goal of having the best speakers under $10k, but I think I'd have a lot more fun with the three different sets of speakers.

I really like this idea, myself.
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post #113 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smb2301 View Post

I actually auditioned both of these speakers (Cremona and Gallo Ref 3.1). The Gallo is a good speaker especially for it's price class and is certainly worth a listen. However I don't believe that it is really in the same league as the 3.7 (and with the Thiel's costing 10K it probably shouldn't be).

The Gallo 3.1s dont even compare to the Thiel 2.4s, let alone the 3.7s. One of the most overhyped/underperforming speakers in recent years.
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post #114 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 03:11 PM
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Hawk_Eye. Word of advice use this forum for exposure to brands, but dont rely on it to make a decision for you. Locate some local dealers that you can listen to this stuff. In your price range, there is an insane amount of options, and all of us have different biases and experiences that form our opinions.

Dynaudio Contour S 5.4
Focal Electra 1027Be
Revel F52
Dali Euphonia MS4
B&W 803D
Monitor Audio Platinum PL300
Thiel CS3.7
Aerial Model 9

This list will get you started in your price range. Check out some dealer locators to find dealers in your area. Some of the dealers might even have several of these to compare side by side. If you need my help finding any local dealers in your area, I would be happy to do so.
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post #115 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 03:36 PM
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Where are the Def Techs?

J.

Custom Built For The Win!
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post #116 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 03:43 PM
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I'd strongly suggest that you seek out and audition the NHT Xd system. I've owned and heard speakers from Dynaudio, Martin-Logan, Magnepan, Wilson, Magico, Thiel etc., and the NHT's hold their own. If you are in the NE area you are welcome to come by and listen to mine.
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post #117 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMAIN64 View Post

You know all this talk about the speakers and no thought of what amplifiers it will take to drive them sufficiently......u really need to understand that u are going to need to spend at least 2-5k on a quality amp, not to mention preamp/receiver and a quality source....IMO sound comes as a result of all 4 products working together.......so what have you allocated for the entire system? ....you will probably need an additional 7-10k for the entire package to achieve the best sound from your choice of speaker in that range....

Hawk_Eye,

An interesting thread here. I find it hard to believe that the sound from your current setup with Paradigm & Arcam is unenjoyable. I would watch your budget during your upgrade effort.

If you start with high efficiency speakers, then you won't need many watts to drive them. They will also give you dynamics perhaps that you are missing from your current system. There are great DIY horn and other high efficiency speaker designs and local builders out there.

I disagree with the need to spend thousands of dollars to get good sound. You can buy used from local sellers, or better yet, hire local cabinet makers and custom design your own speakers for far less.

Good luck,

- Steve O.
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post #118 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonColeman View Post

Where are the Def Techs?

J.

i guess he only likes that "from a box" type sound

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
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post #119 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

The Gallo 3.1s dont even compare to the Thiel 2.4s, let alone the 3.7s. One of the most overhyped/underperforming speakers in recent years.

Don't forget to add imho... you could start a fight as it's getting real serious in here!

What everybody has to understand is that there is no best speaker for everyone. I have Reference 3.0's and to my ears in my room with my gear, they amaze me. They amaze me even after reading into all the hype, so that's saying something! Obviously, however, you don't hear/feel the same thing. Just one out of a million cases.
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post #120 of 330 Old 10-03-2007, 05:22 PM
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I think we can all agree that Bose is the best... There, I said it, we can all move on from here...

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
-- Saint Jerome (374 AD - 419 AD)

My Home Theatre
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