Official Axiom Owner's Thread - Page 42 - AVS Forum
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post #1231 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 01:55 PM
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Didn't expect this, WOW!

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubb...04&nt=3&page=1
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post #1232 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mechx View Post

Didn't expect this, WOW!

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubb...04&nt=3&page=1

Quoted from link:

"Like many of you, I have been wondering what on earth all the vitriolic Axiom-bashing that is showing up on this message board and others is all about. We've always followed the same principals of loudspeaker design, and although some aspects may not be considered mainstream, we firmly believe in taking a scientific approach to loudspeaker design, regardless of what the flavour of the month' is with reviewers, competitors' products, or trends on message boards. We stick by our research and that makes us unpopular from time to time. That is all part of doing business and of being true to our ethos.

Unfortunately, not everyone sees it that way, and today I have some very disturbing news I feel obligated to share. The rampant bashing we have been receiving for some time now has left many of you - and myself - scratching our heads as to what in the world would be causing it. We are beginning to find the answer, and the news is quite shocking. We have evidence that shows that at least one of the bashers, JBall, sends his or her posts from the same IP address that is used by Gene DellaSala from Audioholics when he logs onto our message boards, as well as when he sends emails to Axiom. This has led me to believe that JBall is in fact Gene himself.

As I have mentioned before I was bothered after the opening of the Audioholics store by the fact that we were sending money and product for supposed objective independent review to a competitor in the marketplace. The fact that Audioholics was purporting to be an independent source of reliable commentary while also building up what would best be described as a house brand speaker line did not sit well with me either.

There was some talk after the store first opened of selling our products in the store, which would then at least change it to a quasi-dealer relationship. After much pondering on this we decided that it simply did not fit with our business model and in the summer of 2009 we cut our ties with Audioholics. This resulted in Gene threatening me by saying that he had built the Axiom brand and he could destroy it.

We do have further evidence that shows the scope of the problem is larger than just the postings being made by the IP sharing JBall but we do not yet know the full extent of how deep it really goes. We may or may not investigate it further as we are really not people who wish to spend time delving into this kind of pure negativity. We really just want to have fun with our customers and provide the best products and service we can offer. The majority of people we come in contact with every day are happy with their Axiom products and their experiences with our company, and those are the people we wish to focus on.

I guess if I had to look for a positive in all of this it would be that there is a certain odd flattery in realizing your competition fears what you are doing so much that they would resort to these kinds of tactics. More importantly, I want to thank those of you who have braved the wrath of these people here and on other message boards. I know how draining the negativity can be. I appreciate your support.

In closing I would actually like to extend my apologies to those who make legitimate posts in our forum with real opinions that are not favourable towards us. We watch these sorts of things as they can contain information that leads to product and service improvements. I am not talking about the endless repeaters of the same negative opinion over and over again that we do not agree with and therefore are not going to change. Or those who bash with no firsthand experience with the product they are bashing. That sort of behavior is not constructive to anyone. But to all the others making constructive points, that we need to either respond to with our reasons or change in order to keep making the products and overall experience with Axiom better.
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post #1233 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 05:45 PM
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Should've dealt with that in private

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

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post #1234 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Should've dealt with that in private

I agree. This is bold to do, to say the very least.
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post #1235 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Should've dealt with that in private

I disagree. If a company/person whos been smearing your name publically (and doing it under an alias) and is discovered, it should be divulged pubically.
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post #1236 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ghost271 View Post

I disagree. If a company/person whos been smearing your name publically (and doing it under an alias) and is discovered, it should be divulged pubically.

There needs to be two pieces of follow up in this case:

A - Make the evidence of this as public as the accusation.
B - Have Gene be at least given the opportunity to respond.
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post #1237 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:06 PM
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I'm with you on that one Ghost, the smearing has been going on long enough.
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post #1238 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost271 View Post

I disagree. If a company/person whos been smearing your name publically (and doing it under an alias) and is discovered, it should be divulged pubically.

I hope they have the evidence they claim to have, otherwise it will be bad for them. I would not be surprised, though, since there does appear to be a concerted effort to smear them.

Is Axiom the best speaker company out there? Of course not. Do I expect Axiom to say they are? Of course I do. Anything less would be silly. Can you see Ford saying "we are not the best car company, but please buy our cars"? Never, and you would say they were foolish if they did.

Is Axiom good? I think so, enough that I bought them for my surrounds. Paradigm is better, and I use them for my front three speakers. I simply cannot afford Paradigm for my surrounds.
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post #1239 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:18 PM
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I'm not axiom hater (former owner of m2s). But if you don't give the evidence for this accusation then its not better than what the haters are doing imho. Sounds like he didn't even contact Gene and tell him he got caught...

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

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post #1240 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost271 View Post


I disagree. If a company/person whos been smearing your name publically (and doing it under an alias) and is discovered, it should be divulged pubically.

As should the evidence. Axiom just got busted at Blu-Ray.com for having an employee shilling product without revealing his identity. Intentional or not, it was a clear violation of the rules and not a smart thing to do. This is a very damaging accusation by Axiom, that if true, could really damage Gene, Audioholics, and his livelihood. Likewise, if Axiom does not have the proof, it could really damage their reputation.
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post #1241 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

As should the evidence. Axiom just got busted at Blu-Ray.com for having an employee shilling product without revealing his identity. Intentional or not, it was a clear violation of the rules and not a smart thing to do. This is a very damaging accusation by Axiom, that if true, could really damage Gene, Audioholics, and his livelihood. Likewise, if Axiom does not have the proof, it could really damage their reputation.

That's the thing; this could potentially involve legal action by one or both parties. I hope that Ian thought that through before he decided to bring this to the public.
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post #1242 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:46 PM
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Well I dont think Ian would go around making public accusations without the proof to back it up.
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post #1243 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ghost271 View Post

Well I dont think Ian would go around making public accusations without the proof to back it up.

I would hope so.
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post #1244 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:51 PM
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Might be best to see how this plays out in a few days. Remember the Duke lacrosse thing?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #1245 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post


That's the thing; this could potentially involve legal action by one or both parties. I hope that Ian thought that through before he decided to bring this to the public.

There is no way a competent lawyer would advise Axiom to post those accusations in a public Internet forum. I work with legal all the time with regards to computer forensic investigations, and I doubt an IP address alone is enough to prosecute someone, and I suspect Axiom has a lot more than just an IP address.
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post #1246 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post


As should the evidence. Axiom just got busted at Blu-Ray.com for having an employee shilling product without revealing his identity. Intentional or not, it was a clear violation of the rules and not a smart thing to do. This is a very damaging accusation by Axiom, that if true, could really damage Gene, Audioholics, and his livelihood. Likewise, if Axiom does not have the proof, it could really damage their reputation.

Axiom is going to need a lot more than an IP address as proof that these were sent by any specific party. Spoofing an IP address is trivially easy, so it could just as easily be someone with an axe to grind with Axiom and/or Audioholics as it could be someone behind whatever firewall front ends Gene's office. The evidence presented to date isn't enough to conclude anything yet.

The timing of this is certainly interesting given the Blu-Ray.com fiasco.
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post #1247 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 09:03 PM
 
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If they are behind the Audioholics firewall, then that is good enough to show Audioholics is involved - unless they fire the person who did it, of course. Even then, they may still be liable for the actions of their employees if it can be shown they are fostering an environment conducive to such behavior.

Tell will tell, lets wait and see.
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post #1248 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 09:15 PM
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Gene responds...who buying the kool aid?


Wow this is certainly turning out to NOT be a Good Friday. It's unfortunate that Axiom posted this without consulting with me first to examine the facts but I can understand their frustration. The reality of this situation is I hired a close friend of the family about 4 years ago who is now a struggling freshman college student in need of cash. I needed assistance at our corporate office to publish editorial content (none of which was written by him as he is NOT a writer) and also help me move heavy audio gear given the recent back issues I've been having. Over the years I've been mentoring him on the A/V business and having private conversations about the industry in general. What I didn't realize was the extent in which he was posting on the forums and under the name JBALL' without revealing he unofficially does work for Audioholics. I guess I should have suspected why he was billing me 3+ hours to post a 4-5 page editorial that I could do in ½ the time.

I do however take issue with the following statement made by Ian:

This resulted in Gene threatening me by saying that he had built the Axiom brand and he could destroy it.

I can only suspect Ian wrote this out of anger when he discovered JBALL was doing work for our organization. I have always wished Axiom well in their business and I simply don't use that kind of language nor do I recall ever saying such a thing. We have always given Axiom a fair shake in our reviews and editorials including allowing them the opportunity to peer review all content we publish on their products.

Although we have had disagreements on some aspects of loudspeaker design and theory, we've always managed to find common ground with each other. I have always considered Ian/Amie as friends, not just business partners.

In any event, I apologize for this incident and deserve the public flaming in the forums as a result. I take full responsibility for JBALL's actions and feel quite embarrassed and regretful about these chain of events. Certainly mistakes were made on both sides but our goal is to move forward and rebuild the strong relationship we once forged.

I had a great conversation with Ian/Amie about this and assured them he would NEVER be posting on a public A/V forum again. I asked Axiom to suspend JBALL account and remove all negative posts towards Axiom. Thank you for listening.

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post #1249 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mechx View Post

Gene responds...who buying the kool aid?

The only thing we presumably know is that it was sent from the same ISP. It doesn't mean it was from Gene, personally.
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post #1250 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 10:26 PM
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I find Gene's explanation credible. Gene is too smart and knows how forum software works to make a rookie mistake like that. He is well aware that the forum software logs the IP and if he was so inclined to take pot shots at Axiom he could use any number of anonymyzers, free or paid, to do so in order to hide his IP. The more interesting question is why would this kid, who's a rookie, take it upon himself to single out Axiom?

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post #1251 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 10:41 PM
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The whole thing seems a little too bizarre if you ask me. I am definitely going to stop posting at Audioholics and don't plan on recommending that people buy any product from their store at this point in time.
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post #1252 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I find Gene's explanation credible. Gene is too smart and knows how forum software works to make a rookie mistake like that. He is well aware that the forum software logs the IP and if he was so inclined to take pot shots at Axiom he could use any number of anonymyzers, free or paid, to do so in order to hide his IP. The more interesting question is why would this kid, who's a rookie, take it upon himself to single out Axiom?

Umm...giving JBALL to much credit here...he mentioned over at the blu ray forum about pics taken from his wifes cell phone camera with his new Sierra Towers.... the post has since being deleted...this was not the work of a "young kid"...IMO.

He recently became a member at the AA forum...I made Curtis aware of that....don't think Dave F needs people like that around regardless of being an owner of his speakers or not!

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post #1253 of 1424 Old 04-06-2012, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by darkpoet25 View Post

I noticed that on blu-ray.com all of JBALL's posts were deleted as well as his account.

As they should be.
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post #1254 of 1424 Old 04-07-2012, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mechx View Post

I had a great conversation with Ian/Amie about this and assured them he would NEVER be posting on a public A/V forum again. I asked Axiom to suspend JBALL account and remove all negative posts towards Axiom. Thank you for listening.

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With what we read above, I would think that we should be reading some kind of update from Ian at Axiom about this conversation.
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post #1255 of 1424 Old 04-07-2012, 07:11 AM
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Ian Colquhoun provided a brief follow-up.

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #1256 of 1424 Old 04-07-2012, 07:19 AM
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One down, one to go. He still has some 'splainin' to do regarding the shill.

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post #1257 of 1424 Old 04-07-2012, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkpoet25 View Post

It will be interesting to see how everything turns out. Hopefully for the better, and it doesn't go down like AV123.

I wasn't around for any of it, but I've read about it... that seems like an almost totally different situation.

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post #1258 of 1424 Old 04-07-2012, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

I wasn't around for any of it, but I've read about it... that seems like an almost totally different situation.

You're right, one isn't even close to the other.

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post #1259 of 1424 Old 04-07-2012, 09:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechx View Post

What I didn't realize was the extent in which he was posting on the forums and under the name JBALL' without revealing he unofficially does work for Audioholics. I guess I should have suspected why he was billing me 3+ hours to post a 4-5 page editorial that I could do in ½ the time.

If he is paying him to do work, he is not unofficially working for Audioholics...he REALLY IS working for audioholics.

Not sure I believe him, since he knowingly paid him way too many hours on a routine basis. But since there is nothing to contradict his story, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

I am curious to hear Axiom's response to this. I can understand why they did not talk to Gene first, since there was an adversarial relationship between the two groups. Hopefully they can use this as a bridge to make that go away, and both groups can benefit from each other's strenghts.
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post #1260 of 1424 Old 04-07-2012, 08:52 PM
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Well over at Blu-ray.com old Jball hasent been on since this was exposed so.......
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