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post #1381 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

GT did you have some kind of slip and fall accident and banged your head, maybe mugged with iron pipe. Something has to explain your paradigm shift from axioms to an alternate brand. OR maybe you just like parroting Gene D .
I am referring to post number #209 which was made approximately 1.5 yrs ago
Your like chicken little
An alternate theory is that he's learned a thing or three since then. And the points he makes are quite valid, points that any second semester acoustical engineering 101 student knows to be true.

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post #1382 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

GT did you have some kind of slip and fall accident and banged your head, maybe mugged with iron pipe. Something has to explain your paradigm shift from axioms to an alternate brand. OR maybe you just like parroting Gene D .
I am referring to post number #209 which was made approximately 1.5 yrs ago
Your like chicken little ,

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1337283/any-thoughts-on-axiom-audio-speakers/180

Nope.

If you have time to go back and search all my posts, you can go back and see where I said I started to became dissatified with the VP150 center. It just began to wear on me after awhile. Thats when I decided to gain some actual experience and began purchasing multiple other brands to try and get an idea of whats out there. Just like LSUmatt who switched from a $400plus Axiom center to a $99 Polk center and he is extremely happy and might just kick all his Axioms out later.

For you and the others ignornace might be bliss but not for me. I learn from my mistakes.
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post #1383 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 08:15 PM
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Bill . Right or wrong , the problem is he keeps spewing the same message and bashing Axiom over and over , and what I cant grasp is to what end. He reminds me of parrot that just wont shut up. He makes out like his opinion is the only one that matters. If you have ever built a speaker from the ground up you would realize just how expensive it can be to build a speaker. Every manufacturer has a certain type of person they market to and a price vs profit point that they must aim for. Axiom is selling their product aimed at these goals, and no one is being shilled here. Everyone who buys, knows what they are getting. They have 30 days to return if they don't like them. I know of no other home audio product where owners will happily invite you into their home for an audition. Speakers are designed to come as close to a flat frequency response as possible, but as soon as they get into joe averages living room that goes right out the window. I deal with the general public daily and I can say with some certainty that not many people do room treatment the rest that care even a bit use RoomCorrection to bandaid the situation.

I do own Axioms , though I am not a fanboy. I know straight up my hearing is compromised and I don't feel I could recommend speakers based on my hearing abilities,though they sound good to me. The only reason I really care is that it is seems ridiculous to me for a grown man to go out of his way to trash a company, and say it in such a way that his expansive knowledge trumps all the happy Axiom customers.


Something most people don't realize is that the new model of any product does not necessarily mean its better, though we are conditioned by spin doctors to believe this. I see this with cars I work on every day. Engineers are not always hard at work trying to make the next years model better, most times they are trying to find ways to keep the cost down by cutting corners to meet a price point.
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post #1384 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Nope.

If you have time to go back and search all my posts, you can go back and see where I said I started to became dissatified with the VP150 center. It just began to wear on me after awhile. Thats when I decided to gain some actual experience and began purchasing multiple other brands to try and get an idea of whats out there. Just like LSUmatt who switched from a $400plus Axiom center to a $99 Polk center and he is extremely happy and might just kick all his Axioms out later.

For you and the others ignornace might be bliss but not for me. I learn from my mistakes.


Since you are implying I am ignorant, I will help you out, this is how IGNORANCE is spelled. See I am not as ignorant as you think.

Seriously though, show me one post where I have pushed Axiom in any way shape or form ,that's not why I am here, it is your agenda that bothers me. I not saying you cant have an opinion, it is more the fact that you have this agenda where you cant or wont be happy until you have straightened out everyone in the audio world and they see things your way. I realize the Axiom forum can be pretty fanboyish but that's to be expected it is their forum and they are a great bunch of guys . I don't go over to the Hyundai forum to talk Chevy. If someone goes there to ask about axioms, they are going to get input related to axioms, and I have not seen anyone bash another brand since I have frequented that forum, even when the OP decides on a different brand. Your hatred comes across loud and clear when you post and all your doing is discrediting yourself.
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post #1385 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

Seriously though, show me one post where I have pushed Axiom in any way shape or form ,that's not why I am here, it is your agenda that bothers me. I not saying you cant have an opinion, it is more the fact that you have this agenda where you cant or wont be happy until you have straightened out everyone in the audio world and they see things your way. I realize the Axiom forum can be pretty fanboyish but that's to be expected it is their forum and they are a great bunch of guys . I don't go over to the Hyundai forum to talk Chevy. If someone goes there to ask about axioms, they are going to get input related to axioms, and I have not seen anyone bash another brand since I have frequented that forum, even when the OP decides on a different brand. Your hatred comes across loud and clear when you post and all your doing is discrediting yourself.

I don't see where I said you push Axioms?

My agenda: One is a $400 Axiom and the other is a $45 Insignia. Its that vast price difference but little difference in quality. I'm not trying to straighten anyone out. New people ask a question and I answer it, you just don't like my responses.




Fanboyish isn't the word for it. Crazy and fanatical is. Show me where I ever said a lynch mod needs to go after Axiom owners, like someone stated that a lynch mod needs to go after Axiom detractors? I've been accused of being in a hate group, pyschotic ect.... Show me were I've posted such hateful words about Axiom owners? I don't go to the Axiom forum at the Axiom site. I am a former Axiom owner and PM'd the poster where this all happened and he wanted my opinions posted publically for everyone to see. So after much debating and I told him this would happen, I went ahead and posted a few negative reviews that are legitimate. Just because the Axiomites doesn't like it doesn't mean its not a legitmate concern.

I posted the vast diferences in quality with the M3 xover and the Ascend Xover. Why can Ascend offer a great sounding speakers, a nice quality finish (equal to vinyl) use cast drivers, and high quality xover components for the same price Axiom does? Who by the way takes great pride in using cheap stuff to make good sounding speakers. If they want to use cheap stuff go ahead, just price it accordingly, not the same or more than the competition. Who by the way has been getting better and better. I also enjoy the posts where anyone who wants a better built speaker than the Axiom somehow believes in audiophile snakeoil and other BS. Its the snide remarks toward people who like quality as well as good sounding stuff. I remember the way you guys went after Billy for saying his Ascend Sierra towers are at another level compared to his Axiom speakers.

Whether its in one post or dozens, you Axiom guys view any opposing opinion as hateful and trolling.

Maybe if you guys didn't go off the handle at every little comment, we wouldn't have this long lasting threads.
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post #1386 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 09:14 PM
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I can tell you exactly why ascend can do what they do. And wharfedale and Sonus Faber, who is is the latest.to leverage china and their cheap labour. Those people in china make less in a month than I make in one day of work. Designed in America or Italy or Great Britain and then made by people using what is nothing short of slave labour. Working for a ridiculous wage ,standing in one spot for hours on end to barely make anywhere near a living. All this so we can have inexpensive products.

I will keep saying this until it sinks in. Its not so much what your saying as how your saying it. Axiom isn't endangering anyones life here. It is just a speaker ,why do you care what people do with their money .Please don't lump me in with the others, I don't respond to anyones bashing except yours.


But I digress, I give up trying to help you see the errors of your ways.
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post #1387 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 09:32 PM
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Are you saying that Axiom hasn't dipped into the Asian markert either? These conversation just keep going in circles...no wonder they don't cease...AAMOF....I've being read some stuff over at the Axiom forum recently...its ok when they mock other products I'm not going to mention any names or call people stupid cause they made a bad speaker decision...but GT is right....about the actions of some Axiom members.
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I can tell you exactly why ascend can do what they do. And wharfedale and Sonus Faber, who is is the latest.to leverage china and their cheap labour. Those people in china make less in a month than I make in one day of work. Designed in America or Italy or Great Britain and then made by people using what is nothing short of slave labour. Working for a ridiculous wage ,standing in one spot for hours on end to barely make anywhere near a living. All this so we can have inexpensive products.

I will keep saying this until it sinks in. Its not so much what your saying as how your saying it. Axiom isn't endangering anyones life here. It is just a speaker ,why do you care what people do with their money .Please don't lump me in with the others, I don't respond to anyones bashing except yours.


But I digress, I give up trying to help you see the errors of your ways.

FYI...the bamboo cabinets are mfg in the USA ....the RAALs are design & built in Serbia ....I know that Seas has a hand in some of thier designs as Ascend is mostly OEM...

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post #1388 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 09:42 PM
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Hey guys, I just wish that this would just end - a couple of years of this acrimony is more than enough.

I would love to just go back to mostly lurking, drinking in all the good info from the experts here along with the latest industry news & perhaps occasionally coming out to provide some assistance where I can.

Very simple, really...

TAM
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post #1389 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

Are you saying that Axiom hasn't dipped into the Asian markert either? These conversation just keep going in circles...no wonder they don't cease...AAMOF....I've being read some stuff over at the Axiom forum recently...its ok when they mock other products I'm not going to mention any names or call people stupid cause they made a bad speaker decision...but GT is right....about the actions of some Axiom members.


On a much smaller scale they have. From what I can garner from their website, they cut the cabinets,make drivers injection mold speaker frames and assemble the speakers, all in Ontario. Check out the factory tour gene desalle did.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/on-location-articles/audioholics-on-spot-location-factory-tour-2-of-axiom-audio/audioholics-on-spot-location-factory-tour-2-of-axiom-audio-page-2
http://www.audioholics.com/news/on-location-articles/axiom-audio
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post #1390 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post




On a much smaller scale they have. From what I can garner from their website, they cut the cabinets,make drivers injection mold speaker frames and assemble the speakers, all in Ontario. Check out the factory tour gene desalle did.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/on-location-articles/audioholics-on-spot-location-factory-tour-2-of-axiom-audio/audioholics-on-spot-location-factory-tour-2-of-axiom-audio-page-2
http://www.audioholics.com/news/on-location-articles/axiom-audio

I'm totally aware of those tours...heck...AH was the reason why I elected to try out the Axioms in the first place and regrettably a large reason why these discussion take place now and why I don't call AH home anymore.

As for your information regarding the Ascend business model...they're on even smaller scale than Axiom....any concerns....I basically speak to the owner....I like that.wink.gif

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post #1391 of 1424 Old 03-17-2013, 11:15 PM
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I guess that my lurking isn't over yet, ha!

What I don't understand is how a customer - especially knowledgeable enthusiasts that hang out in the various audio forums - can purchase a system, audition it for a month in their audio room (the ideal setting on how they will perform) & not be able to decide for sure whether they are suitable or not.

If your Axioms weren't for you in the first month, why didn't they go back & then go on to something else? For me, I liked all 3 systems (3 different models all in different roles) so they stayed with absolutely no regrets. If I kept my AX2s for over 20 years, I expect that the same will happen again - that's if I last 20 more years, ha!

BTW, Ian and/or Amie are easily reached also...

TAM
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post #1392 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 12:49 AM
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What I don't understand is how a customer - especially knowledgeable enthusiasts that hang out in the various audio forums - can purchase a system, audition it for a month in their audio room (the ideal setting on how they will perform) & not be able to decide for sure whether they are suitable or not.
I don't have a problem understanding that. I keep listening, experimenting with different kinds of music, different receivers, receiver settings, speakers, speaker positions, and have changed my mind lots, over the years. If someone can "decide for sure" about a system, that would make me suspect he is one of those people who get locked into a position and have stopped listening.

I've had three Axiom 4 ohm speakers in front for several years, M80/VP180/M80, but my previous receivers were not rated for driving 4 ohms. I just got a Pioneer receiver, SC 1522-K, which is "certified" by Pioneer for 4 ohm speakers, though I don't know exactly what this means. I'm happy with the way my system is sounding, but I don't know yet whether it has any connection with how well the receiver amps work for 4 ohm speakers.

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post #1394 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

My agenda: One is a $400 Axiom and the other is a $45 Insignia. Its that vast price difference but little difference in quality. I'm not trying to straighten anyone out. New people ask a question and I answer it, you just don't like my responses.


They both use cheap electrolytic caps, so they both suck. rolleyes.gif

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post #1395 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 07:17 AM
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I stopped reading the ******** a few pages back and I am unsubscribing from this thread. THIS is an an example of the reason I do not post here at AVS any more. A few idiots ruin a thread and are allowed to continue by the mods.

If you like the speakers buy them. If you don't, than don't buy them. It is really not that complicated.

FWIW, I have had my Axioms for 4 years now and I'm am still very happy with them.

BTW - I don't post over at the Axiom forums any more either. Similar ********, different board....
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post #1396 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 07:50 AM
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To all

you can help make AVS and this thread a better place:

If you see a problematic post, please report it to mods to handle: please do not respond to it or quote it

please take the high road in every post
if you see a problematic post, please do not quote it or respond to it: report it to the mods to handle
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post #1397 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

I can tell you exactly why ascend can do what they do. And wharfedale and Sonus Faber, who is is the latest.to leverage china and their cheap labour. Those people in china make less in a month than I make in one day of work. Designed in America or Italy or Great Britain and then made by people using what is nothing short of slave labour. Working for a ridiculous wage ,standing in one spot for hours on end to barely make anywhere near a living. All this so we can have inexpensive products.



SVS and HSU make alot of there products here in the states. SVS in Ohio and HSU in California. Ascend also makes there stuff in California similar to Axiom. I see this always thrown back in everyone's face that its just slave labor, when Axiom themselves has there tweeter and mids/woofers made over seas. But I see that you feel Axiom is so much better and more ethical than all the other companys that its made in wonderful loving factory. When in facts its the same as everyone else. They are all compliant with WTO and UN Trade practices.

So you do agree that Axiom stuff is lesser quality because they make it in Canada instead of over seas?

I wonder where Axiom gets there MDF, glue, equipment, and everything else needed to make products and operate a business? I bet alot of that stuff is made in China, ie air guns, screw drivers, sanders, ect.....
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post #1398 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 09:20 AM
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To all

you can help make AVS and this thread a better place:

If you see a problematic post, please report it to mods to handle: please do not respond to it or quote it


Thank you sir and to be up front here ....I reported a certain individual for his personal attack on another menber within this thread on 2 separte occasions....if I've ever offended somebody I must apoligize but I've never gone to the lenghts of this particular member.

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A few idiots ruin a thread and are allowed to continue by the mods.
We certainly seem to have more than our share of idiots here, but I don't see how the mods can protect us against idiocy. So I guess I'm going to give up on the thread, too.

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post #1400 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 12:13 PM
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Some people do not like products that are made overseas like places like china, They would rather have a product that's made in north America.
Axioms are built in Canada but if you pull a driver out of the cabinet and look at the magnet, Does it say made in Canada?
No it does not, at least the last time I see one it said made in china I believe.
If some of the parts used inside the cabinet such as a magnet, or other components, can you still claim Canadian made? or is it misleading?


If I was set on buying something Canadian made and purchased an axiom product and then pulled out a driver,
and on the magnet it said made in china, would it bother me?
For sure it would make me go hmmm.
I know this probably happen with a lot with companies, but would it bother you?

Does anyone know exactly what parts are used inside axiom speakers that came from overseas?
Can someone hate Chinese made products because of cheap labour and buy something made in north America only to find out that some components used are made overseas?
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post #1401 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 02:26 PM
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If I was set on buying something Canadian made and purchased an axiom product and then pulled out a driver,
and on the magnet it said made in china, would it bother me?
For sure it would make me go hmmm.
Chances are about 99 out of 100 that if the driver wasn't actually made in Asia that the parts it was assembled from were. That's been the case going on 20 years. I wouldn't even count on the trees that supplied the raw material for the cabs being home grown.

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post #1402 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Chances are about 99 out of 100 that if the driver wasn't actually made in Asia that the parts it was assembled from were. That's been the case going on 20 years. I wouldn't even count on the trees that supplied the raw material for the cabs being home grown.

I believe China is the biggest exporter of ferrite for use in magnets. So even Axioms 100% made in Canada subwoofer use Chinese resources. And those raw material companys are much more likely to have low quality labor and horrible practices, many times more so than a North American based company with a factory overseas. I bet almost all MDF comes from China as well.
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post #1403 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 05:40 PM
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I believe China is the biggest exporter of ferrite for use in magnets. So even Axioms 100% made in Canada subwoofer use Chinese resources.
They export very few raw materials, preferring to export manufactured goods instead. They're by far the #1 source for magnets, including those for speaker manufacture.

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post #1404 of 1424 Old 03-18-2013, 05:49 PM
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"started by GaryWooldridge (10/2/07 at 8:19pm) "....I suppose it was a good run. 7+ years. I've often wondered how it is that people who own speakers and receivers suddenly have Ph.Ds in electrical engineering, suddenly have more experience than people who've done this for a living for years on end. And how suddenly, everyone understands the sound wave reflecting off every furniture of every house. Simply amazing! And what would we do w/o wikipedia? Just a few minutes of browsing and we can spout expert opinion like we've studied it for years. LOL.

Even with an engineering degree, I don't even pretend to know everything there is about opamps, cmos, etc.etc. go figure.

Take care everyone. Best of luck.

Thanks,
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Setting up our basement home theater. first time for us having a basement that was usable for such and we had the equipment to use it that way.

I know most of the posts of late have been on --- I'm not sure what -- but I'm looking for a bit of feedback on placement in this environment
no pictures yet. just got the house and been too busy making sure the rooms Momma wanted looking good and running were such. Tomorrow I setup the basement entertainment and its unique setup/potential.

1. Original - Corner built in shelves and TV spot (would fit the 47" but not our LG 60PX950 plasma will be mounted to movable bracket and sit just outside the old TV built in. not much choice based on wiring and room setup.
so.
2. Axiom VP150 goal - sit right below TV (there is potential to sit it above the tv) but will need to make that decision tonight.
3. Axiom M60s - each side of TV (probably with in 2-3 feet of TV) not exactly where I want them but hoping its not too much of an issue???
4. Axiom QS8s - just slightly aft of the sitting area (L shape leather sectional ) ear height for someone standing- hoping the slight aft won't be an issue? I potentially can move them forward on the wall by one foot. closer to aligning with listener.... wires (previous owner has wiring jacks built in). better to move forward? hide wires that will go up the wall w/ tracking later (less visible for the wife)
5. SVS 20-39 PC+ sub (posted questions for this in subwoofer forum) is currently slated for a corner but aft of the listener. Not exactly where I'd like.
the downside also - sub will now be within 3 feet of one of the QS8s. will this be a problem?
6. Sony rear 7 channel speakers (came w/ house replace later) hang for ceiling and behind the

thanks for any thoughts / suggestions.

SiteCR2 

See the world, meet new friends and enjoy what you have!

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post #1406 of 1424 Old 03-29-2013, 11:14 AM
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CR2:

Might I suggest that you delete this post & repost your queries here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1464107/new-official-axiom-audio-speaker-thread

Read the first post wrt the rules...

TAM
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post #1407 of 1424 Old 03-29-2013, 01:16 PM
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Yes there is a new Sunshine Pumpers thread for Axiom owners to have warm happy thought about there speakers. No Science, no objective tests, no discussion on xover designers (pros/cons), no discussion on quality, no comparing Axiom products to its direct competition, no opinion that doesn't jive with Axiom's marketing team.

The other set of rules is that you may make disparaging remarks about other brands not being a good value for the price or not up to the performance of Axiom. But you will not say the same thing about Axiom. You can make childish remarks about AVS posters all you want but making similar claims about Axiom crazys is not allowed. You as and Axiom fanboy can say Axiom detractors are vicious and vile nasty people who are similar to hate groups. But you dare not say anything about dual tweeters on the VP150 as being a bad design.

So go ahead grab a big jug of coolaid and have fun at the new Axiom owners thread.
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post #1408 of 1424 Old 04-02-2013, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

Are you basing your comments on actual experience with their customer service, or just hearsay as is often the case here?

No - re-read my post.
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I have used them several times so I know of what I speak. My experiences have been nothing but outstanding - they just took care of me promptly & in a courteous, friendly manner. One example, last year I placed an order for a pair of M3s (horrors for many here, I know) that included a week-long special that included free speaker mounts ($80 value) - if you checked a box on the Checkout Screen. I completely missed that & later after the special had expired, I learned about the deal in their forums Now several days later - I called Customer Service & asked about the free mounts to see if I could still get them. No problem - even though my original order had already been shipped, they sent me another box absolutely free. How many companies would do that? Not many in my experience - when a special is over it's over & you missed it.

I was not commenting on your pleasant experiences. I was raising a theoretical question, of which you had no response to.
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Of course, Axiom is in business to make a buck - like any other reputable enterprise. They haven't been successful in their business for 30+ years by ripping off, overselling, upselling, or using any other nasty retail tactics that are so common today. This has been attested to in many articles on the web. Warranty work or technical problems are normally taken care of promptly & often beyond what would be expected - lots of testimonials to that fact. For a very small company with few employees, to have a tech rep on call until 8 PM Eastern every weekday is exceptional IMHO. There are many bigger firms that don't do this.

Again, happy they were so friendly and helpful to you.
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Their designs are their designs - often outside the box but certainly not hidden - they've been around & scrutinized for years. As with any products, many of us like the results, others do not. If not, go & spend your money elsewhere - there are lots of choices. It's so simple!

Of course it is.
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Bringing up Bose here says a lot...

Yes it does. smile.gif
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post #1409 of 1424 Old 04-06-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

For anyone interested and believe's Dale Rasco somehow was coerced to write a positive review about AXIOM , I will say this, I contacted Dale by PM asked him straight up what the deal was and he said he received the same discount everyone gets when buying a package which is 10% and because he is a HTS Forum member he got 15% additional discount. Anyone who becomes a HTS Forum member is entitled to that discount. Now Dale does not work for HTS.

Thats great to know, now lets just see if Axiom follows through and actually give HTS members a discount. So everyone that is a HTS member should be able to get the 10% off package price plus an additional 15% HTS members discount. You can get a $700+ discount off the Epic 80-800, why was this discount ever kept a secret. eek.gif

I've emailed Axiom and PM'd Sonnie at HTS to find out if this really is true.
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post #1410 of 1424 Old 04-06-2013, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Thats great to know, now lets just see if Axiom follows through and actually give HTS members a discount. So everyone that is a HTS member should be able to get the 10% off package price plus an additional 15% HTS members discount. You can get a $700+ discount off the Epic 80-800, why was this discount ever kept a secret. eek.gif

I've emailed Axiom and PM'd Sonnie at HTS to find out if this really is true.


This is a good question. I looked over at HTS and I don't see axiom as being on the vendor list as a sponsor though they are an affiliate . Something I am not sure about if how to become a member, I am a registered user there at HTS but does that make someone a member? Keep us posted.
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