My Journey to find the "perfect" speaker... - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-26-2007, 10:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Zues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip E View Post

Elitist tones and atitudes are always boring. Who cares.

Does anyone have an opinion on Focal's Electra line, specifically the 1007's? I just read a Stereophile review on them. Seemed well liked. The beryllium tweeter is interesting. Any comments on it?

One of the best tweeters in the world. I have not heard them myself but they do get rave reviews. For me the only cone speakers i would consider are european, focal-quart, dynaudio, b&W. Martin logan and magnepan are nice to though. Also imo a good amp is just as important as speaker selection, avr's are a insult to any of those speakers
Zues is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-26-2007, 10:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chip E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

One of the best tweeters in the world. I have not heard them myself but they do get rave reviews. For me the only cone speakers i would consider are european, focal-quart, dynaudio, b&W. Martin logan and magnepan are nice to though. Also imo a good amp is just as important as speaker selection, avr's are a insult to any of those speakers

I just haven't heard the monitor 1007BE's. We have a full 1027BE, CC1000BE, SR1000BE & matching sub setup at work, hooked up to Krell gear.

- Chip
Chip E is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 10:49 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

One of the best tweeters in the world. I have not heard them myself but they do get rave reviews. For me the only cone speakers i would consider are european, focal-quart, dynaudio, b&W. Martin logan and magnepan are nice to though. Also imo a good amp is just as important as speaker selection, avr's are a insult to any of those speakers


I'm not so sure I agree with this (surprise!). We have a customer who has these models and while they are very detailed in the midrange, the treble is WAY too hot. About 3 or 4dB. All you can hear it seems is treble. I used to be a JM dealer and the bookshelf speakers, while a bit boom and sizzle, always had the best balance, until you went to the Mezzo Utopia. But as good as the tweeter is in some ways, you never stopped hearing it. Kinda peaky in the mid treble.

That being said, if you like the treble as is, the rest of it is pretty good, except maybe the bass is just so-so for the price. But that has always been the case with JMLabs, even on Utopia series.

John
Alimentall is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 10:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mudslide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Don't worry about it bud; it'll pass. Don't stop visiting a useful thread just because of a little bickering.

Hi Brandon....

I'm sorry for bailing on you, but my tolerance level has been exceeded. It's more than a little bickering. It seems that these people use AVS to build self-esteem when none should exist...in ways that defines who they really are. It just gets so tiring...thread after thread after thread. You know what I mean? I've been in and out of this forum for a couple of years and it never changes. It's impossible to NOT be buggered up by these willy-wavers. The joyful art of education or debate seems to be a long-lost art. AVS has a wide-ranging reputation for this style of conflict. Insults and passive aggressive behavior abounds and then others take offense at the attacks and off we go (...and somehow that seems to fit the direction this goofy country is going).

And for you to get banned because of what you said on Craig's thread...man, THAT was too much.

You're a good guy and don't have these prevalent ego or insecure personality issues. There are actually quite a few good people here. But to have every single thread infested with personal venom gets....tiring. And I'm too old to want to put up with it. The last time I tried to calm these rants in a thread, I had a little clique of (almost religious-cult fanatic) Axxxxx speaker owners calling me "your highness" and "hypocritical" for challenging their name-calling behavior. So I'm done. They are not worth my time. There are other forums, such as Audiocircles or even Audioholics that are much more adult oriented and enjoyable and don't require a black belt in verbal karate.

I'll continue to read but not participate. That way I can just skip the bullshiite. Yours is a fun mission. Enjoy it and keep us informed.

Much good cheer.

Mud

MARGARITAS,
they're not just for breakfast anymore.
Mudslide is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Zues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I know your not a fan of euro speakers allimental but personal taste is what it comes down to. Is there any euro tweeter that is not to hot in your opinion, dynaudio? Also how far back do you listen, judge, to be able to tell if the speakers are to hot? Could it be a small room that these revealing speakers are just to overpowering in the treble range?
Zues is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
syswei's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

At $11,000.00 per pair they are out of my price range.

The Focal Solo6 Be is $2000/pair street, which is why I suggested it as a value alternative. It uses the same drivers as the Focal Electra 1007 Be, plus you get amplifiers tossed in for free.
syswei is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Nuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by syswei View Post

The Focal Solo6 Be is $2000/pair street, which is why I suggested it as a value alternative. It uses the same drivers as the Focal Electra 1007 Be, plus you get amplifiers tossed in for free.

Now that's more like it! I'll put them on my research list. Thank you.

Mud, you will be missed pal. It's nice to have someone fighting on the good side, but I can't blame you for wanting to just be a bystandar. Take care bud!

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
Nuance is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Nuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip E View Post

I just haven't heard the monitor 1007BE's. We have a full 1027BE, CC1000BE, SR1000BE & matching sub setup at work, hooked up to Krell gear.

Would you mind sharing your impressions of the 1027BE's?

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
Nuance is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 02:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jostenmeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Would you mind sharing your impressions of the 1027BE's?

I've heard selections from just about every line they make. I keep saying the same thing, which I feel bad about, but since you are curious...

For the right listener with the right recordings they can be extremely impressive. The bass was very disappointing, but it is a bookshelf, and one can only guess as to room setup.

For the BE tweeters themselves, for my own recordings (many favorites are not of audiophile SQ, both classical and jazz) to my ears, they were the most unforgiving speaker I have ever heard. An extremely forward and prominent hissing I particularly remember with piano recordings by Gould and Alicia de Larrocha. Too bad, in my case.

If you only listen to recordings of "audiophile" SQ, they are indeed a very interesting listen/audition. Its just too bad that what I find to be some of the best musical interpretations have to come with poorer SQ. Though my ML stats have plenty of compromises, I did highly enjoy that they were not nearly as unforgiving to my ears in comparison to certain other brands.

I enjoyed the educational side-show between your auditions. Again, great thread, and keep it up!

 

 

jostenmeat is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 03:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
syswei's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 1,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Now that's more like it! I'll put them on my research list. Thank you.

P.S. Mercenary Audio will let you try them out at home and then return them if you don't like them. You would be out roundtrip shipping costs.

Otherwise, if you want to audition, you'll probably be refered to a pro who uses them to mix for a living.
syswei is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Nuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Thanks for the info josten and syswei. My list is long, but it's getting smaller and turning into an audition list rather than a research list. I have plans to audition more tomorrow, but things are kind of crazy around here so that could change. We'll see...

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
Nuance is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 06:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jake Sm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: american heartland
Posts: 3,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:


Does anyone have an opinion on Focal's Electra line, specifically the 1007's? I just read a Stereophile review on them. Seemed well liked. The beryllium tweeter is interesting. Any comments on it?

Several differant times I've heard them, I felt they were edgy, unforgiving and wore on me after a while, but felt that some of that may have been the rooms and placement (which I couldn't control)....On a few other occaisions wher I thought the situations were better, I simply thought they were a tad analytical and uninspiring, but still not being able to control all the variables, I wouldn't mind trying them again in my own system based on the fact that others seem to like them and I might be missing something.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
Jake Sm is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 07:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
They really need to be in a heavily damped room to sound good.

John
Alimentall is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Nuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 59
I have a question for the masses, and I would appreciated the opinion of everyone who has had experience with this style of speaker...

What do you guys think of line array speakers? What are the pros, cons, etc?

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
Nuance is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 08:49 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Line arrays have advantages with respect to low inherent bass distortion but need a big room. I wouldn't use a line array in anything less than about a 25'x30' room, personally. The problem is that it's really not a real line source. The drivers still create a bunch of acoustic interference patterns that a point source won't, so they all have a somewhat hollow, phasey and/or unnatural sound to my ears. I don't even like D'Appolito speakers and those have only two midranges stacked. Now, a bass line array is a good thing, if you can afford that kind of thing! Of course, with every concept, there are better and worse.

John
Alimentall is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Nuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 59
I auditioned Paradigm Studio 100's and Monitor Audio GS60's today. I will write an extensive review later when I have time, but in short, the Studio 100's are killer speakers. On the other hand, the MA's sounded terrible. It may have been due to the room acoustics, but I was blown away by how bad and hollow they sounded. Frankly, I was at a loss for words. More to come on that later...time to put my daughter to bed.

Back later!

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
Nuance is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 08:01 PM
 
floridapoolboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: florida
Posts: 3,482
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Line arrays have advantages with respect to low inherent bass distortion but need a big room. I wouldn't use a line array in anything less than about a 25'x30' room, personally. The problem is that it's really not a real line source. The drivers still create a bunch of acoustic interference patterns that a point source won't, so they all have a somewhat hollow, phasey and/or unnatural sound to my ears. I don't even like D'Appolito speakers and those have only two midranges stacked. Now, a bass line array is a good thing, if you can afford that kind of thing! Of course, with every concept, there are better and worse.


How many people have a 25'X30'room? Surely line source speakers can sound good in smaller rooms than that!
floridapoolboy is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 08:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
kokishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

Hi Brandon....

I'm sorry for bailing on you, but my tolerance level has been exceeded. It's more than a little bickering. It seems that these people use AVS to build self-esteem when none should exist...in ways that defines who they really are. It just gets so tiring...thread after thread after thread. You know what I mean? I've been in and out of this forum for a couple of years and it never changes. It's impossible to NOT be buggered up by these willy-wavers. The joyful art of education or debate seems to be a long-lost art. AVS has a wide-ranging reputation for this style of conflict. Insults and passive aggressive behavior abounds and then others take offense at the attacks and off we go (...and somehow that seems to fit the direction this goofy country is going).

And for you to get banned because of what you said on Craig's thread...man, THAT was too much.

You're a good guy and don't have these prevalent ego or insecure personality issues. There are actually quite a few good people here. But to have every single thread infested with personal venom gets....tiring. And I'm too old to want to put up with it. The last time I tried to calm these rants in a thread, I had a little clique of (almost religious-cult fanatic) Axxxxx speaker owners calling me "your highness" and "hypocritical" for challenging their name-calling behavior. So I'm done. They are not worth my time. There are other forums, such as Audiocircles or even Audioholics that are much more adult oriented and enjoyable and don't require a black belt in verbal karate.

I'll continue to read but not participate. That way I can just skip the bullshiite. Yours is a fun mission. Enjoy it and keep us informed.

Much good cheer.

Mud

Mudslide, Pardon me for jumping in. I agree with you not because it has happened to me (I don't post much so I guess I am not much of a target), but I see it happen again and again and again. My way of usually handling these things (whether it is a forum or work email) is to completely ignore and never reply to those that offend me. If for some compelling reason I have to reply, I wait at least 24 hours before I respsond. I find it interesting how much better my thinking is after waiting a day or two to respond. For this forum, save your energy and do not respond to the negative posters at all. Please continue to participate and just ignore and NOT respond to those that irritate you.

Best Regards

I'm just a caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.

avsforum Members Atmos Configuration Spreadsheet
kokishin is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 08:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hifisponge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 7,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Update number two:

I auditioned Paradigm Studio 100's and Monitor Audio GS60's today. I will write an extensive review later when I have time, but in short, the Studio 100's are killers speakers. On the other hand, the MA's sounded terrible. It may have been due to the room acoustics, but I was blown away by how bad and hollow they sounded. Frankly, I was at a loss for words. More to come on that later...time to put my daughter to bed.

Back later!

Funny that you would compare the GS60's to the Paradigms the same day that I received my GS60's that replaced my Paradigms.

There is definitely something very wrong with the GS60's you listened to. Maybe they were wired out of phase? I dunno, but I doubt a dealer's room could screw the sound up that bad. They *should* sound like a more refined and balanced version of the RS6's that you listened to. I have the GS60's placed in my very average, untreated living room and they are the best sounding speaker I have had in my room, clearly bettering the Paradigm Signatures that they replaced.

What puzzles me is the hollow quality you briefly mention. That is typical of a suck-out in the midrange somewhere, which makes me think that the dealer may have reversed the wiring on one of the bi-wire terminals.

You can read my impressions of the GS60's here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post12034558

Cheers,

- Tim
hifisponge is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 10:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

How many people have a 25'X30'room? Surely line source speakers can sound good in smaller rooms than that!

Well, you generally need to be 15'-20' away from them to really sound good and to take advantage of their characteristics. That dictates a big room. That doesn't mean they can't sound *good* in smaller rooms, but I don't think they have any real *advantages* in smaller rooms.

John
Alimentall is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 10:22 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I agree with Tim, unless you just meant disappointing instead of terrible.

John
Alimentall is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Nuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Line arrays have advantages with respect to low inherent bass distortion but need a big room. I wouldn't use a line array in anything less than about a 25'x30' room, personally. The problem is that it's really not a real line source. The drivers still create a bunch of acoustic interference patterns that a point source won't, so they all have a somewhat hollow, phasey and/or unnatural sound to my ears. I don't even like D'Appolito speakers and those have only two midranges stacked. Now, a bass line array is a good thing, if you can afford that kind of thing! Of course, with every concept, there are better and worse.

Waaa? 25'x30'? I know that they need a large room to be most effective, but that's pretty darn big.
Anyone else have anything to add concerning line arrays? Danny Richie?
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

How many people have a 25'X30'room? Surely line source speakers can sound good in smaller rooms than that!

That's what I was thinking. I hope someone else weighs in on this subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post

Mudslide, Pardon me for jumping in. I agree with you not because it has happened to me (I don't post much so I guess I am not much of a target), but I see it happen again and again and again. My way of usually handling these things (whether it is a forum or work email) is to completely ignore and never reply to those that offend me. If for some compelling reason I have to reply, I wait at least 24 hours before I respsond. I find it interesting how much better my thinking is after waiting a day or two to respond. For this forum, save your energy and do not respond to the negative posters at all. Please continue to participate and just ignore and NOT respond to those that irritate you.
Best Regards

Well said. Thank you.

Update # 2


Paradigm Studio 100 V.3's


Next on my audition list were the Paradigm Studio 100's. I specifically went to this shop because I knew they specialized in Paradigm. I had listened to the studio 60's and 20's before, but I hadn't heard the 100's or the new v4's of the latter speakers. I sat down in a room that had two acoustic panels behind the 5 or 6 pairs of speakers, two at the reflection points on the walls to my left and right and two behind the listening area. I sat about 8-9 feet from the speakers which were positioned at least 3 feet from the back walls and many, many feet from the side walls. The gear used was a Rotel RSP-1069 preamp, RB-1070 and RB-1092 amplifiers and the RC-1055 CD player. We started using the RB-1070 amp which put out 100 wpc, after which we switched to the 500 wpc unit. I will note that upon switching to the RB10-92, the midrange and treble opened up a bit as if some strain was lifted from them.

The Paradigm Studio 100 is a very well balanced speaker. The treble is smooth and well extended, the midrange is sweet and defined and the bass is plentiful and hefty. I could have sworn that there was a small subwoofer hidden within the room, but this was not so. The three 6' woofers do an excellent job in the bass slam deparment; very impressive. However, every so often the bass was a tad bit overpowering, making me have a strain a little to hear some of the subtle details in the audition track. Nonetheless, I really enjoyed the powerful bass, though I wished it was a little quicker and tighter.

Monitor Audio GS60



Let me tell you, I was shocked into speechlessness when I heard the speakers. I sat there hoping my ears would just adjust, but they didn't. Everything sounded hollow, there was a large lack of bass and the speakers distorted very quickly. In lieu of this, I felt the speakers were wired out of phase. So I switched over to the RS8's next to the GS60's and they sounded terrible as well.

I admit I didn't write down the model numbers of the Mcintosh gear, but from the pictures those look like exactly what I used. Also, all of the components were running through a switcher so I could easily turn on any speakers, subwoofers and center channels that I wanted to. The room was not treated and the speakers (about 7 pairs) were all sitting directly next to each other. They were about 2 feet from the back walls.

To ensure I wasn't going insane, I exited that listening room and headed over to the Southern wall which had mock rooms set up, just like as if you were sitting in your own living room. The setup(s) included a couch and/or a row of chairs, a coffee table and an A/V stand with a flat panel TV, AV receiver or pre-amp and amp, a Denon universal player and a pair of Monitor Audio RS6's. There was no wall behind me, just a large open showroom floor.

Now I had just listened to a pair of RS6's a week earlier in what I feel was a much nicer listening environment, so my initial impressions still rang fresh in my mind. Listening in this environment yielded similar results to the ones in the sound room I had just exited. The speakers lacked bass and clarity, especially at higher volumes. Guitars sounded utterly unnatural, cymbals sounded like they were being re-created through a synthesizer rather than being played on a drum kit, the vocals of the singer overpowered everything and the keyboard sounded like a $20 Walmart special. Mind you, I just auditioned a pair of Paradigm Studio 100's at a different location not two hours earlier with the exact same material, and my demo CD sounded incredible through those Paradigms. I am at a loss for words concerning the "larger," yet supposed "high end" shop. The MA Gold's cost almost twice what the Studio 100's do. I...just don't know what to say other than I'm pretty sure something was seriously wrong at that AV shop. Bummer...I really wanted to get a good audition of the MA Gold's.


I have to keep this short and wrap things up since my wife says I spend too much time on here so here is my wrap-up:

In summary, I was very disappointed with the setup at the larger A/V shop. I feel I didn't get a fair audition of the Monitor Audio GS60's, which stinks because I was surprised to see them when I walked in, thus getting very excited. Well, that excitment quickly turned to disappointed...I couldn't even listen for more than 5 minutes, it was that bad. On the other hand, I thoroughly enjoyed my time with the Paradigm Studio 100's. Other than the owner trying to shoo us out of the shop because it was near closing time, I had a fantastic experience at the A/V shop in Brown Deer. The Studio 100's are a bargain for the money IMO; they even sounded great when I put my Rock mix in and cranked the volume (no distortion or compression; very cool).


More to come as my journey continues. If anyone local or near my area has a pair of MA Gold 60's, I would love to give them another listen. I have no faith in the shop I listened to them in and am sincerely disappointed. I want to give the MA's a second chance.

If I had to chose a pair of speakers out of the four auditioned thus far, it would be the Paradigm Studio 100's.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
Nuance is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Nuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I agree with Tim, unless you just meant disappointing instead of terrible.

No, they were just terrible. I had a good buddy of mine and my brother join me for the trip; they both agreed that the MA Gold's were awful. Something unusual is amidst at the large A/V shop. They even stopped carrying other more "audiophile" grade brands. Weird...

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
Nuance is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 10:49 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Well, you generally need to be 15'-20' away from them to really sound good and to take advantage of their characteristics. That dictates a big room. That doesn't mean they can't sound *good* in smaller rooms, but I don't think they have any real *advantages* in smaller rooms.

I have only heard a line array briefly at CES earlier this year, and I don't remember the brand/model.

I do have one question, with the drivers possibly being close to the ceiling and being close to the floor, won't their be issues with reflections/gain in those areas or are they controlled somehow?

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 10:53 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Waaa? 25'x30'? I know that they need a large room to be most effective, but that's pretty darn big.
Anyone else have anything to add concerning line arrays? Danny Richie?

Well, I'm saying that *I* wouldn't buy line arrays for a room much less than that size. I just don't think they do as well as point source speakers in small rooms. *Unless* you switch to a D'Appolito or point source midrange/treble. That's something the old Genesis did for its "smaller" speakers. The went from a big 5' or 6' line source midrange, to smaller 3' one and from a large number of tweeters to three and I'm not so sure they even needed the three.

For instance, the big, what, $75K(?) McIntosh arrays sound like *crap* if you're close to them, but you couldn't get far enough away for them to "gel" without being in the middle of a crowd of passersby at CES or CEDIA. They put them in a smaller room at CES and they still sounded like crap - the room just wasn't big enough (or these speakers could just sound like crap no matter what).

John
Alimentall is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 11:00 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I do have one question, with the drivers possibly being close to the ceiling and being close to the floor, won't their be issues with reflections/gain in those areas or are they controlled somehow?

Well, in theory, a perfect line array would have no ceiling/floor reflections, which, to an extent is good, though could also sound "lacking" or "unnatural", depending on your perspective. It certainly helps deal with the vertical room mode in the bass. But once you get above, say, 400Hz, if you don't switch to more of a point source, you'll end up with other types of acoustic problems stemming from driver interference patterns.

A true line source would be a single long driver that went from floor to ceiling. That doesn't exist, so we end up stuck with "line arrays" which only attempt to mimic a line source.

John
Alimentall is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 11:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Well, in theory, a perfect line array would have no ceiling/floor reflections, which, to an extent is good, though could also sound "lacking" or "unnatural", depending on your perspective. It certainly helps deal with the vertical room mode in the bass. But once you get above, say, 400Hz, if you don't switch to more of a point source, you'll end up with other types of acoustic problems stemming from driver interference patterns.

A true line source would be a single long driver that went from floor to ceiling. That doesn't exist, so we end up stuck with "line arrays" which only attempt to mimic a line source.

Thanks John (did I just thank John for his input? )

It actually brings up another question, with music or other sounds, how often is the source a "point" vs a "line"?

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 11:07 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
BTW, if you put four floor to ceiling bass arrays in the corners of the room, you should have close to perfect bass with no real room problems. In theory, I haven't actually tried it, but would love to

An idea I have for a speaker involves having arrays of bass drivers in the corners, an array of midbass drivers in the front wall about 8' apart and then a midrange/treble "imaging module" sitting out in the room handling over 400Hz or so. All with DSP doing time/crossover functions, of course. In theory, no room modes, no floor bounce and it should imagine like an SOB. All in my mind, of course

John
Alimentall is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 11:13 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Alimentall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home by the sea
Posts: 14,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It seems to me that most music is point source, with some unique combinations of monopole or dipole or bipole kind of radiation pattern. Of course, we're really mainly hearing a lot of resonances, the very things we supposedly try to avoid the speaker adding.

John
Alimentall is offline  
Old 10-28-2007, 05:34 PM
CLS
Senior Member
 
CLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

No, they were just terrible. I had a good buddy of mine and my brother join me for the trip; they both agreed that the MA Gold's were awful. Something unusual is amidst at the large A/V shop. They even stopped carrying other more "audiophile" grade brands. Weird...

Nuance,

Could have been the switcher or the cables used that is way too long. If you could try and connect them directly or bring along your favorite cables & IC's and try again. I agree with Hifisponge and preferred the Monitor audio over the Paradigms.

Other speakers not mentioned and worth listening: Elac, PMC, and ASW.
My personal preferences are the Dyn s1.4s & C1s, AP Scorpio and Lynn Espek.

Have a safe journey and lots of fun

Vin
CLS is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off