My Journey to find the "perfect" speaker... - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 6914 Old 11-14-2007, 04:14 PM
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HAhahah.

Thats a website?........Scary as the speakers.............
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post #542 of 6914 Old 11-14-2007, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnilsson View Post

I am always suspicious of speaker makers who won't print their specs (and prices) on their site.

Well, I'm suspicious of specs that are on manufacturer's websites. I think especially when it comes to FR (both plus and minus ratings and extension), manufacturer's specs need to be regarded with great suspicion.

BTW I'm not by any means pushing Green Mountain, I think their stuff too ugly to even consider auditioning.
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post #543 of 6914 Old 11-14-2007, 06:45 PM
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On the Green Mountain site.....there are a fair amount of specs there, just hard to navigate:
http://www.greenmountainaudio.com/Sp...ifications.htm

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post #544 of 6914 Old 11-15-2007, 03:00 AM
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Were those speakers really placed there for photographs or were they Photoshop'd?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #545 of 6914 Old 11-15-2007, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

On the Green Mountain site.....there are a fair amount of specs there, just hard to navigate:
http://www.greenmountainaudio.com/Sp...ifications.htm

yup! He also claimed that room size determined the bass extension. What a crock of bull lol.
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post #546 of 6914 Old 11-15-2007, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega View Post

yup! He also claimed that room size determined the bass extension. What a crock of bull lol.

Wow... I don't even know what to say about that.

So I have added the Salk Sound Veracity HT3 to my audition list. If my speculations and wishes comes true, they will be very similar to the Vandersteen 5A's but at a third of the costs. Now we're talkin'!

Anyone in the state of WI own the Veracity HT3's? Or perhaps could someone give a little mini review of the HT3's and list other speakers that that bested? Ideally I would love to talk to someone who has heard the Vandersteen 5A's and liked the Salk's better.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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post #547 of 6914 Old 11-15-2007, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Wow... I don't even know what to say about that.

So I have added the Salk Sound Veracity HT3 to my audition list. If my speculations and wishes comes true, they will be very similar to the Vandersteen 5A's but at a third of the costs. Now we're talkin'!

Anyone in the state of WI own the Veracity HT3's? Or perhaps could someone give a little mini review of the HT3's and list other speakers that that bested? Ideally I would love to talk to someone who has heard the Vandersteen 5A's and liked the Salk's better.

Those are some fine looking speakers. Another set (might have already been recommended) is Sigfried Linkwietz's Orion. With electronics, it comes to about 8k$. Its a dipole design, so very different from the standard speakers you have listened to perhaps.
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post #548 of 6914 Old 11-15-2007, 08:50 PM
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Well, I doubt they're anything very much like 5As. Very different design. More like a Joseph Audio on the cheap.

John
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post #549 of 6914 Old 11-16-2007, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syswei View Post

BTW I'm not by any means pushing Green Mountain, I think their stuff too ugly to even consider auditioning.

You might want to reconsider. What I've heard is they sound amazing.

Although their looks are off-putting for me as well...
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post #550 of 6914 Old 11-16-2007, 04:42 AM
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Nuance -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Anyone in the state of WI own the Veracity HT3's? Or perhaps could someone give a little mini review of the HT3's and list other speakers that that bested?

There are a few HT3 owners in Wisconsin, but I'm not sure if they frequent AVS. If you want, PM me with your location and I may be able to line something up for you.

- Jim

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post #551 of 6914 Old 11-16-2007, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsalk View Post

Nuance -



There are a few HT3 owners in Wisconsin, but I'm not sure if they frequent AVS. If you want, PM me with your location and I may be able to line something up for you.

- Jim

Jim

Thank you for your response. I would love to get in touch with some fellow Wisconsinite owners. PM sent.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
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No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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post #552 of 6914 Old 11-24-2007, 06:46 AM
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Whatever you do, do not buy without extensive auditioning and/or a generous return policy. I made that mistake once on a pr of very well regarded and reviewed speakers.
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post #553 of 6914 Old 11-24-2007, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnilsson View Post

Many speaker discussions remind me of a comment by a windsurfing magazine editor some years ago. He noted that while he was sitting on the beach with his friends waiting for the perfect wind, a bunch of people who really did not know what they were doing were out on the ocean having a blast. He decided that something was wrong with that picture: the lack of the perfect wind was no reason to sit on the beach not having fun.

The same is often true with audiophiles: many audiophiles seem to prefer mucking with speakers, etc. in an effort to get the perfect sound. They spend more time doing that they they do listening to music or watching movies. And while they are doing that, others who don't know anything about sound are perfectly happy listening to music and watching movies on their easy to set up Bose system.

Now, I am not recommending that anyone go out and buy Bose. But it is worth remembering that most of us probably have this hobby because of our love of music or movies, not because of our love of speakers or audio components. We should act accordingly.

LOL

When the iPod came out, many audiophiles wallowed on and on about compressed digital music, and they still do. However, while Mr Audiophile gets to come home to his mega system and sit in the sweet spot for a short time per day if he is lucky, many ipod listeners have their little compressed system going seemingly all the time. At the office, in the car, etc...

And I ask, between the 2, who is the greatest music listener?
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post #554 of 6914 Old 11-24-2007, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_D View Post

However, while Mr Audiophile gets to come home to his mega system and sit in the sweet spot for a short time per day if he is lucky, many ipod listeners have their little compressed system going seemingly all the time. At the office, in the car, etc...

And I ask, between the 2, who is the greatest music listener?

Greatest listener? One listens incessently using sound as wallpaper while attending to other things and the second listens to the music and pays attention to it. Your question has no meaning.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #555 of 6914 Old 11-24-2007, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Greatest listener? One listens incessently using sound as wallpaper while attending to other things and the second listens to the music and pays attention to it. Your question has no meaning.

Must not hijack thread...so I created a new one

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post12300610
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post #556 of 6914 Old 11-24-2007, 07:47 PM
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John,

Which speaker are you referring to and why?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Well, I doubt they're anything very much like 5As. Very different design. More like a Joseph Audio on the cheap.


I'm just a caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.
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post #557 of 6914 Old 11-24-2007, 08:30 PM
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The Salks. They use higher order crossovers and a magnesium midrange, so they would likely have more midrange resolution and higher output, but also a different sound in general.

John
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post #558 of 6914 Old 11-24-2007, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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More midrange resolution sounds like a good thing to me. I really need to get my hands...er, rather my ears, on some HT3's.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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post #559 of 6914 Old 11-28-2007, 05:08 PM
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Has anyone compared the green mountain audio europa to the salk songtowers and the ascend acoustics sierra? How do you feel?
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post #560 of 6914 Old 11-29-2007, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry guy, haven't heard Green Mountain Audio's offerings. I see that you started a thread asking if anyone has heard them. Hmm...I guess they aren't that popular??

If I may ask, why are you so intrigued by them?

On a different note, I'll be setting up my Rocket 850's soon and writing a decently extensive review. Things have been crazy lately so I haven't had time for much A/V stuff.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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post #561 of 6914 Old 12-15-2007, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Sorry if I keep pounding room acoustics, but it's as important at least as speakers, and I don't even sell room treatments.

Where can I learn more about how to properly set up my living room for the best sound?
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post #562 of 6914 Old 12-15-2007, 08:22 AM
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Not sure if you are referring to speaker placement, room treatments, or both. Here's a tutorial from GIK Acoustics. Keep in mind that they manufacture and sell room treatments so there is probably a commercial in there somewhere. But, it will get you started.

AVS's Setting Up Your Home Theater "101" should help.

Also, this Primer for Home Theater Newcomers has a wealth of information. It's fairly old, so some info may be out of date, but the basics should still apply.

Jack
 

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post #563 of 6914 Old 12-15-2007, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida_guy View Post

Where can I learn more about how to properly set up my living room for the best sound?

Here is a pretty helpful site!

Also, Master Handbook of Acoustics by Everest is a pretty good text to help you understand the basics of room acoustics or acoustics in general. It can be found for around 20$ on amazon.com
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post #564 of 6914 Old 12-15-2007, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega View Post

yup! He also claimed that room size determined the bass extension. What a crock of bull lol.

Well, I'm not sure the context of what you are referring to, but you might be interested to know that a room's dimensions can affect the bass extension. The dimensions can increase or decrease the bass extension in the room. Generally it is best to take an anechoic frequency response measurement and compare the in room response to the anechoic response to get an idea of how your room's resonant modes are effecting the speaker's output, including the bass extension. Resonance doesn't change the speaker's actual output, but the resonance does reinforce or nullify certain areas of the frequency response. If those reinforcement resonances fall in the right areas they can actually extend the bass response at the listening position.

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
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post #565 of 6914 Old 12-15-2007, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

Well, I'm not sure the context of what you are referring to, but you might be interested to know that a room's dimensions can affect the bass extension. The dimensions can increase or decrease the bass extension in the room. Generally it is best to take an anechoic frequency response measurement and compare the in room response to the anechoic response to get an idea of how your room's resonant modes are effecting the speaker's output, including the bass extension. Resonance doesn't change the speaker's actual output, but the resonance does reinforce or nullify certain areas of the frequency response. If those reinforcement resonances fall in the right areas they can actually extend the bass response at the listening position.

It was in the context that the largest dimension of the room corresponds to the half-wavelength of the lowest frequency that can exist in a room. This is wrong.

A quote from the Calypso design: "A smaller room won't accept bass below 35hz." That is wrong, my tiny room (140sqft) has 'accepted' as low as 14hz bass and the restriction is on the subwoofer design, not the room.
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post #566 of 6914 Old 12-15-2007, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega View Post

It was in the context that the largest dimension of the room corresponds to the half-wavelength of the lowest frequency that can exist in a room. This is wrong.

A quote from the Calypso design: "A smaller room won't accept bass below 35hz." That is wrong, my tiny room (140sqft) has 'accepted' as low as 14hz bass and the restriction is on the subwoofer design, not the room.

It is indeed wrong. The person who wrote it was confusing the lowest resonant mode possible in a room with actual bass frequency propagation. The fourth edition of Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics talks about all of this stuff succinctly on pages 323-324 (a great chapter in general). It is an unfortunate mistake on the writer's part, because if the lowest room mode isn't treated, that first resonant mode can greatly overshadow much of the output below that frequency, causing those lower frequencies to be much harder to perceive or in the worst case scenario causing them to be humanly imperceptible. So, in a way, under the right conditions, a similar effect occurs, but it isn't the case that the lower frequency waves fail to exist at all.

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
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post #567 of 6914 Old 12-15-2007, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

It is indeed wrong. The person who wrote it was confusing the lowest resonant mode possible in a room with actual bass frequency propagation. The fourth edition of Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics talks about all of this stuff succinctly on pages 323-324 (a great chapter in general). It is an unfortunate mistake on the writer's part, because if the lowest room mode isn't treated, that first resonant mode can greatly overshadow much of the output below that frequency, causing those lower frequencies to be much harder to perceive or in the worst case scenario causing them to be humanly imperceptible. So, in a way, under the right conditions, a similar effect occurs, but it isn't the case that the lower frequency waves fail to exist at all.

Thats a good text, I'm glad I picked it up a while back.
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post #568 of 6914 Old 12-17-2007, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Since we are talking about room treatments and placement, I'll throw out a question.

I am trying my speakers out in a different room (basement). Due to the construction and setup, I'm not getting much bass in two-channel with my speakers. Moving them closer together helped, as well as closer to the wall, but there is only so much I can do. I cannot put them on a different wall so I'm kind of stuck for now. I am going to move my room treatments downstairs, but I'm trying to figure out where they would best be placed.

The room is around 22X12 and the speakers are on the short south wall. The left speaker is about two feet from the side and back wall and the other is two feet from the back wall but has a wide open "play room" next to it (there is no room boundary directly near it besides the back wall). I sit 10-11 feet away and the speakers are around 8 feet apart.

Upon walking down the basement stairs you would be staring at the TV and AV setup (south wall, around 22 feet away from the stairs). There is a bathroom at the end of the long wall behind the seating position (north wall) and a "play room" off to the right of the seating position (west wall). There is no door or wall separating the play room, so it's just another open space about 12X12 or so. Finally the laundry room is immediately off to the right (when looking south) and is a separate room separated by a door next to the stairs.

I have around 7-8 feet of space between the seating position and the wall (and bathroom) behind me. I want to put two panels behind me and two behind the speakers (one behind each), but don't know how to handle the first reflection points due to the right speaker having an open space next to it.

My SPL meter is wigging out and didn't seem to survive the move (in a dead quiet room it thinks it's 64dB)...I can't take measurements right now until I buy some new toys (or get them for Christmas ). What do you guys recommend?

I'm looking for room treatment placement suggestions and a suggestion to improve bass response without having to move the speakers to a different wall (which isn't possible). Please don't answer, "Buy a subwoofer." Trust me, it's the next toy I get (I shouldn't have sold my previous unit...).

Thanks all.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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post #569 of 6914 Old 12-17-2007, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Since we are talking about room treatments and placement, I'll throw out a question.

I am trying my speakers out in a different room (basement). Due to the construction and setup, I'm not getting much bass in two-channel with my speakers. Moving them closer together helped, as well as closer to the wall, but there is only so much I can do. I cannot put them on a different wall so I'm kind of stuck for now. I am going to move my room treatments downstairs, but I'm trying to figure out where they would best be placed.

The room is around 22X12 and the speakers are on the short south wall. The left speaker is about two feet from the side and back wall and the other is two feet from the back wall but has a wide open "play room" next to it (there is no room boundary directly near it besides the back wall). I sit 10-11 feet away and the speakers are around 8 feet apart.

Upon walking down the basement stairs you would be staring at the TV and AV setup (south wall, around 22 feet away from the stairs). There is a bathroom at the end of the long wall behind the seating position (north wall) and a "play room" off to the right of the seating position (west wall). There is no door or wall separating the play room, so it's just another open space about 12X12 or so. Finally the laundry room is immediately off to the right (when looking south) and is a separate room separated by a door next to the stairs.

I have around 7-8 feet of space between the seating position and the wall (and bathroom) behind me. I want to put two panels behind me and two behind the speakers (one behind each), but don't know how to handle the first reflection points due to the right speaker having an open space next to it.

My SPL meter is wigging out and didn't seem to survive the move (in a dead quiet room it thinks it's 64dB)...I can't take measurements right now until I buy some new toys (or get them for Christmas ). What do you guys recommend?

I'm looking for room treatment placement suggestions and a suggestion to improve bass response without having to move the speakers to a different wall (which isn't possible). Please don't answer, "Buy a subwoofer." Trust me, it's the next toy I get (I shouldn't have sold my previous unit...).

Thanks all.

A scaled drawing would be helpful, with marks indicating listening position and potential speaker positions... As far as speaker positioning, the WASP method has worked the best out of all the methods I have tried in my space with different speakers I have used (which are quite a few). Generally, diffusion and/or absorption to varying degrees on all the 1st order reflection points in the room is good, plus enough extra absorption around the room to get the absorption coefficient to a decent enough level to eliminate obvious signs of slap echo and other reflection issues. Treating bass issues will take more involved work than just off-the-cuff advice.

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
-- Saint Jerome (374 AD - 419 AD)

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post #570 of 6914 Old 12-17-2007, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Since we are talking about room treatments and placement, I'll throw out a question.

I am trying my speakers out in a different room (basement). Due to the construction and setup, I'm not getting much bass in two-channel with my speakers. Moving them closer together helped, as well as closer to the wall, but there is only so much I can do. I cannot put them on a different wall so I'm kind of stuck for now. I am going to move my room treatments downstairs, but I'm trying to figure out where they would best be placed.

The room is around 22X12 and the speakers are on the short south wall. The left speaker is about two feet from the side and back wall and the other is two feet from the back wall but has a wide open "play room" next to it (there is no room boundary directly near it besides the back wall). I sit 10-11 feet away and the speakers are around 8 feet apart.

Upon walking down the basement stairs you would be staring at the TV and AV setup (south wall, around 22 feet away from the stairs). There is a bathroom at the end of the long wall behind the seating position (north wall) and a "play room" off to the right of the seating position (west wall). There is no door or wall separating the play room, so it's just another open space about 12X12 or so. Finally the laundry room is immediately off to the right (when looking south) and is a separate room separated by a door next to the stairs.

I have around 7-8 feet of space between the seating position and the wall (and bathroom) behind me. I want to put two panels behind me and two behind the speakers (one behind each), but don't know how to handle the first reflection points due to the right speaker having an open space next to it.

My SPL meter is wigging out and didn't seem to survive the move (in a dead quiet room it thinks it's 64dB)...I can't take measurements right now until I buy some new toys (or get them for Christmas ). What do you guys recommend?

I'm looking for room treatment placement suggestions and a suggestion to improve bass response without having to move the speakers to a different wall (which isn't possible). Please don't answer, "Buy a subwoofer." Trust me, it's the next toy I get (I shouldn't have sold my previous unit...).

Thanks all.


well, first of all you don't want the left speaker the same distance from the side wall as it is from the back wall. I think the only way you're going to improve bass response is by moving them closer to the back wall, increasing the baffle step.
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