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post #721 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Audition # 7

SVS MTS', Onix Rocket 850 Signature's and Paradigm Studio 100 V4's (floor standing speakers)

The reason I've waited so long to post a little review of the three above speakers is because they weren't compared in the same manner as the bookshelf speakers. The bookshelf speakers both sat on the same stands and were placed at the same position with the same amount of toe in. The same cannot be said about the tower's. The tower's remained in their spots all day/night, with the Rocket's taking the inside, the Paradigms hanging in the middle and the MTS' residing at the edges. It should also be noted that there was a bass null at the seating position. This was somewhat cured by moving the couch all the way against the wall, but very early into the GTG the couch was moved forward again to provide a second walk way, hence introducing that bass null again (FYI, the bass null seemed to not come into play while listening to the bookshelf speakers, perhaps due to the different speaker positioning and room interaction). Due to all of this the sound was going to be greatly effected by all of this, but it was what it was.

In lieu of the above I will post this disclaimer:
The following opinion is mine and only mine and should not even be considered worthy of an honest opinion. This is due to the different speaker positions, toe in and listening distances, so results may certainly vary. Nonetheless I will give my thoughts, if nothing else just to keep a record of my impressions.

SVS MTS Floor Standing Speaker


I first listened to these speakers in Warpdrv's room on the Friday before the GTG. Yes, his bedroom. But it's okay because his master chef girlfriend was there to ensure nothing kinky happened. LOL! J/K

Upon first listening to the MTS' they didn't jump out at me at all. While sitting in the sweet spot they sounded dull and very uninvolving. I thought that it was probably because the tweeter was below ear level and because the speakers were fairly close to the back wall. Nonetheless I was left alone to listen to my own personal audition CD of which I stopped about 8 minutes through. These speakers just weren't "doing it" for me, so I decided to wait until Sunday to give a real listen.

Sunday arrived, and after giving the guests a quick listen to the MTS' in his room, Warprdv moved them into the basement with the rest of the goodies. This did improve the sound, but not as much as I would have hoped.

The first track we listened to (that I remember) was Copland's ''Fanfare for the Common Man.'' I thought that the SVS MTS' portrayed this piece better than the other tower speakers. It could have been due to their positions, I don't know, but I was shocked and remembered saying to Warpdrv, "Your bedroom acoustics must have been why these SVS' sounded so bad." However, I had to get my foot out of my mouth at the end of the night because no other musical piece sounded natural or correct to my ears on the MTS', especially rock and roll (which is my favorite genre ranging from Led Zeppelin and the Who to Dream Theater and Metallica). The SVS' were just unpredictable and sounded both harsh and dull at times depending on the Rock artist. They sounded boring and unengaging with The Eagles, and piercing and shrill with Dream Theater. At times they were downright unlistenable for me.

In the end, the SVS', which fell into the middle of the group for price, ended up being the least preferred (by me). There were a lot of factors that could have played a role in why they sounded so bad, but in that room on that day, the SVS' were not my cup of tea. The tweeter was unpredictable, ranging from laid back to ear piercingly bright. The midrange sounded recessed and muffled which caused a loss of detail. Finally, the bass was deep with an impactful feeling (probably the only thing I liked about the MTS'). But 1 out of 3 just didn't do it for me.

Not recommended as I can certainly think of a number of speakers that I like better in that price range.

Onix Rocket 850 Signature Floor Standing Speaker


I'll keep this review as unbiased as possible (because I own them). For the price ($1400/pair), they outperformed the SVS' and tied the Paradigm's IMO. I liked some things about the Paradigms better, but some things about the Rocket's better (more on the Digm's later).

The bass null in the room greatly effected the bass response of these speakers. Although, even when the couch was against the wall, the Onix speakers seemed a little light in the bass depth. It could have been the speaker positioning, room acoustics and that bass null, but I tell it like I heard it. Due to this the Rocket's sounded a little brighter than when I heard them in my home and a few other owner's homes. In this room on that day, they probably would have benefited from zero toe-in. Nonetheless, the tweeter wasn't piercingly bright, but rather walked the line in between just right and a little too bright.

The Onix Rocket's strength was the midrange, IMO. The midrange detail surpassed the SVS MTS' and the Paradigm Studio 100's. No detail was overlooked while focusing on the human voice. I heard every breath, each lip smack and a nicely balanced vocal tone. While not the most resolving, full and lush midrange I've ever heard, it's tied for the best I've heard on a pair of speakers retailing for $1400 or less and is definitely the selling point of these (big) guys. I now know why they perform so well for home theater.

Compared to the rest of the speakers at the GTG, the Rocket's were the most dynamic. Even with the dB level in the 90's these big dogs never whimpered and just continued to flex their muscles, almost saying in a taunting tone, "bring it on!" They also sounded pretty darn good at lower levels, losing some bass impact, though. I've discovered that these speakers don't push a heck of a lot of air through the back ports, so near wall placement isn't an issue and may actually help with the bass response. IN comparison to the bass response of the Digm's, the Rocket's bass is tight and quick as opposed to boomy.

Finally, I felt that the 850 Sig's were easily the best looking speakers at the GTG. The Rosewood finish was just dead sexy (yes, a speaker can be sexy... )! I honestly would have preferred a solid black driver color, but the white isn't terribly distracting, and I listen with the grills on anyway, so... These speakers are solidly made, but could have possibly been dampened a little better.

In the end, the Rocket's performed wonderfully, especially considering they were the least expensive floor standing speaker at the GTG. I wish they had a little more bass depth and impact, but that's just how they sounded that day in that room. All of the Floor Standing speakers could have benefited from crossing over to a capable subwoofer (yes, all of them).

The Rocket's are definitely recommend, especially considering the price you pay for a good sounding speaker with a high quality construction and look. I consider them the Paradigm's of Internet Direct. Cross them over to a subwoofer and they are even more impressive!

Paradigm Studio 100 V.4 Floor Standing Speaker


The Studio 100 is a great speaker; something I've already made clear earlier in my speaker thread. However, this time I was able to put some time in with the V4 rather than the V3, with the former benefiting from a new midrange driver.

As previously noted in my former Studio 100 thread, the Digm is a fairly balanced and accurate speaker with a slight bass hump. I feel that crossing over to a capable sub would be beneficial because that bass hump caused some loss of midrange detail. However, the midrange was lush and engaging and the treble was well extended and airy, though sometimes walking that fine line of being too bright. This could have been due to the room acoustics and speaker placement, however.

While listening to this speaker I again noticed that bass null I spoke of earlier. Up in Warp's main listening area (and in the well treated A/V shop in which I auditioned the Studio 100 V3's) the Digm's had more bass in 2-channel. Down stairs the bass was less pronounced but still noticeable. In fact, in my opinion the speaker's may have actually benefited a little from the bass null because the bass wasn't as boomy and overpowering. I do like powerful bass impact, but not at the expense of a loss of details. If the bass was a little tighter I feel that I wouldn't have had to strain to hear low level details and nuances. Again, crossing over to a subwoofer would probably be beneficial.

When it was all said and done I was still impressed with the Paradigm Studio 100's. However, due to the bland look (just not my style) and more than double the cost of the Rocket 850's, I can not highly recommend them over the Onix's. Is the treble a little more refine on the Digm's? Yes. Does the bass dig deeper? Yes, but at the expense of loss of detail. However, is it worth the price increase of $1400? I'd have to say no. Don't get me wrong, the Digm's are a terrific speaker, but I do feel the asking price is a little steep. I guess you can thank the markup of B&M for that, something that ID doesn't suffer from.

The Paradigm Studio 100's are definitely recommended, but I'd recommend purchasing used or finagling with the dealer for a hefty discount.

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post #722 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mark L. Schifter View Post

Sold via B+M...



mls

Thanks buddy!

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post #723 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Nuance -

Back onto the subject of this thread, have you heard of the ERA speakers?

I recently listened to their new floor standing speakers (they used to only make bookshelfs), and I thought they sounded quite nice.

http://www.signalpathint.com/index.p...ign-14-Series/

The sales rep for the company told me that the cheif designer for Aerial Acoustics designed the drivers, so Mudslide will approve.

They are very well built too. Very solid, nice looking curved cabinets and excellent veneer work.

And I think they only cost $2K a pair. I would have thought they were $3-4K based on the quality and sound.

Well then...the ERA's MUST be good!

With regard to speaker preferences, comparative and DBT studies have shown that 'generally speaking', most people with adequate hearing will have a tendency to prefer a speaker with a flatter FR. That said, those people perhaps did not hear a speaker more to their liking. Flat FR speakers, ala studio monitors, tend to be quite dry and lifeless. The key ultimate speaker for any individual is undoubtedly one that has a perfectly flat FR AND THEN is equalized to the preferences (and physical environment) of the individual owner/listener.

Absolute statements about the quality of loudspeakers are verboten as they are judgements. Judgements cannot carry the weight of fact or truth or be 'absolute'. And to carry this all the way to the wall, like fingerprints, no two set of ears-brain connection are alike. We all simply DO hear differently. John, one person's description of a speaker's weaknesses, say yours as a seller, may be the siren call sound for the buyer.

I have yet to meet an FR chart that thrilled my ears, btw.

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post #724 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Well, I used to think so, but now as I grow older and realize how little I really know, I’m not so sure.

Is this the truth?
Revue De Son (French AV magazine) measurement of Focal 1037Be


Or is this the truth?
Stereophile measurement of Focal 1037Be



Your ears would tell you that the Stereophile measurements are correct, while mine tell me the Revue De Son measurements are more accurate.

So which is it?

Neither. They're simply approximations of the truth, that's why they are somewhat different. It's like seeing two paintings of the same scene.
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And in regards to us audiophiles, does it really matter how it measures if we like the way that it sounds?

In a way. Measurements help determine the difference between real objective progress and flavor swapping. It's easy to make a pleasantly colored speaker, not as easy to make a pleasantly accurate speaker because you have to eliminate distortions rather than cover them up.
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In a related matter, I have read more than once, that some people do not like the sound of a speaker with ruler flat frequency response, and that it even sounds bright, lean and unnatural to them. So what do you tell them?

Buy some of those 'rolled off' PSBs and NHTs?

in all seriousness, people don't dislike accurate speakers, they dislike distortion. Eliminate that and accurate doesn't sound bright, lean or unnatural at all. NHT's Xd were proof of that. They measured flat as a board, yet sounded rather lush, rich, smooth because they were so low in distortion. They were brighter, yet less fatiguing than the 'rolled off' NHT Fours. They didn't seem "detailed", yet you could hear everything.

John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

Well then...the ERA's MUST be good!

With regard to speaker preferences, comparative and DBT studies have shown the 'generally speaking', most people with adequate hearing will have a tendency to prefer a speaker with a flatter FR. That said, those people perhaps did not hear a speaker more to their liking. Flat FR speakers, ala studio monitors, tend to be quite dry and lifeless. The key ultimate speaker for any individual is undoubtedly one that has a perfectly flat FR AND THEN is equalized to the preferences (and physical environment) of the individual owner/listener.

Absolute statements about the quality of loudspeakers are verboten as they are judgements. Judgements cannot carry the weight of fact or truth or be 'absolute'. And to carry this all the way to the wall, like fingerprints, no two set of ears-brain connection are alike. We all simply DO hear differently. John, one person's description of a speaker's weaknesses, say yours as a seller, may be the siren call sound for the buyer.

I have yet to meet an FR chart that thrilled my ears, btw.

In fairness though, the work of the NRC in Canada and further research by Floyd Toole at Harmon indicated that there are criteria by which individuals preferred certain speakers under DBT conditions. Of course, it was not just flat on axis response although that was ONE (and only one) of the criteria.
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post #726 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Nuance -

Back onto the subject of this thread, have you heard of the ERA speakers?

I recently listened to their new floor standing speakers (they used to only make bookshelfs), and I thought they sounded quite nice.

We agree! I don't find them without color, especially the soft dome sound which isn't my idea of reality, but they have amazing midrange quality and lushness and deep, 'tuneful' bass so we're bringing some in on our next order. Incredible build quality. Almost to the point of the ridiculous.

John
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post #727 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

We agree! I don't find them without color, especially the soft dome sound which isn't my idea of reality, but they have amazing midrange quality and lushness and deep, 'tuneful' bass so we're bringing some in on our next order. Incredible build quality. Almost to the point of the ridiculous.

John, which model-the floorstanders?
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post #728 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 10:12 AM
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Absolute statements about the quality of loudspeakers are verboten as they are judgements. Judgements cannot carry the weight of fact or truth or be 'absolute'. And to carry this all the way to the wall, like fingerprints, no two set of ears-brain connection are alike. We all simply DO hear differently. John, one person's description of a speaker's weaknesses, say yours as a seller, may be the siren call sound for the buyer.

We hear a lot more alike than you think, we just interpret what we hear differently. When a customer says 'this speaker is too lean' or 'this is too detailed' or 'the midrange isn't strong enough', i just run it through my translator ring and direct them to the speaker they will like. kind of like my Vandersteen customer. He told me what he didn't like, i showed him what i knew he would like. Now he's happy (at least for the moment!).

People will describe the same distortions in different ways. Cone resonance can be 'detail' or it can be 'ruthlessly revealing' or 'too detailed' or any of number of things, but it's the same event we're hearing. Same as bass - one man's 'powerful, dynamic bass' is another man's 'peaky, muddy, uncontrolled bass'.

John
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post #729 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 10:13 AM
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John, which model-the floorstanders?

D14s. i thought they were going to be $3k, but they're only $2200. i suspect they'll go up to at least $2500 though. I'm not going to say everyone will love them, but they're an intensely good value and will certainly find a receptive and reasonably big audience.

I would have gotten them already, but they were out of the finishes i'd wanted and will be for a month or so. i think it was rosewood that just got plain wiped out.

John
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post #730 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 10:58 AM
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We hear a lot more alike than you think, we just interpret what we hear differently.

That's why I said no two ears-brain connections are alike. Is there a sound in the forest when a tree falls and no one is there to hear it? LOL. The brain tells us what we hear.

But I agree with your approach to customers. Ask their preferences and with your experience in hearing a variety of speakers, you can lead them on a more direct path to happiness. ("Oooh, John....! )

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post #731 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 11:56 AM
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Nope. It's the only true important thing. Well...that and aesthetics for many.

I'm sure you guessed that both are important to me.
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post #732 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark L. Schifter View Post

This is a very nicely done speaker - and your sales rep would be right...

Bravo for ERA loudspeakers...

All the best...

mls

And when people buy them, they are supporting my local economy, since their headquarters are in WA state. An odd location for a speaker company, but I think it's pretty cool that some fine sounding and well built speakers are made here.
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That's why, though I buy Apple over Microsoft, I'd much rather buy Microsoft over Sony. In the case of speakers, we're just putting out better products for the money. I consider Canada to be part of America

John
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post #734 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

Well then...the ERA's MUST be good!

With regard to speaker preferences, comparative and DBT studies have shown that 'generally speaking', most people with adequate hearing will have a tendency to prefer a speaker with a flatter FR. That said, those people perhaps did not hear a speaker more to their liking. Flat FR speakers, ala studio monitors, tend to be quite dry and lifeless. The key ultimate speaker for any individual is undoubtedly one that has a perfectly flat FR AND THEN is equalized to the preferences (and physical environment) of the individual owner/listener.

Absolute statements about the quality of loudspeakers are verboten as they are judgments. Judgments cannot carry the weight of fact or truth or be 'absolute'. And to carry this all the way to the wall, like fingerprints, no two set of ears-brain connection are alike. We all simply DO hear differently. John, one person's description of a speaker's weaknesses, say yours as a seller, may be the siren call sound for the buyer.

I have yet to meet an FR chart that thrilled my ears, btw.

I'm quite familiar with the the studies done by Harman International, and the results pointing to people *generally* preferring speakers with flat FR. For a while I took the results of that test as gospel, searching out the speakers with the flattest FR I could find. But then I realized, through personal experience (listening to many different speakers) that the results of that test (any test) greatly depends on the conditions of the test.

Place speakers with flat on and off-axis response in a glass house and the results would be different. Pipe some aggressively recorded pop / rock music through speakers with flat FR and the results would be different. Play speakers wit flat FR to people with hearing loss and the results would be different.

For me, my most recent realization is the importance of the recording quality. I never really understood why people said that some speakers are better suited for some types of music, as I thought an "accurate" speaker should do them all well. But I have found that there is such a disparity in the recording quality (mainly the amount of EQ and compression used), that some less technically accurate speakers do make the sound of these recordings more enjoyable.

Granted, the best solution, as someone already pointed out, might be to get speakers with flat FR and use an EQ to adjust the sound to taste for various recordings, but even that has its disadvantages. Number one, I don't want to spend all of my time tweaking the sound for all of my different recordings. That sounds like an awful chore.

So instead I buy speakers that work well with most of my music, and take my lumps on the really bad recordings.

Cheers,

- Tim
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

So instead I buy speakers that work well with most of my music, and take my lumps on the really bad recordings.

Cheers,

- Tim


All as it should be!

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post #736 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 03:12 PM
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just remember that accuracy is just a slice of the equation. I'd rather have an inaccurate, low distortion speaker than an accurate high distortion speaker. I'd also rather have a somewhat forgiving speaker than a somewhat unforgiving speaker, though if you listen to acoustic jazz and classical, you can more easily get away with a more unforgiving speaker. Our Electras didn't sound that great on rock'n'roll, well recorded or no, but sounded pretty amazing on jazz/classical.

In all seriousness, the Era D14s could be Brandon's budget 'perfect' speaker given his tastes. Eras are very much designed similar to Ascends and the D14 is kinda like a Sierra with more bass and dynamics in theory.

John
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post #737 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

in all seriousness, people don't dislike accurate speakers, they dislike distortion. Eliminate that and accurate doesn't sound bright, lean or unnatural at all. NHT's Xd were proof of that. They measured flat as a board, yet sounded rather lush, rich, smooth because they were so low in distortion. They were brighter, yet less fatiguing than the 'rolled off' NHT Fours. They didn't seem "detailed", yet you could hear everything.

Prove it and send me a pair for free.
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Originally Posted by Randybes View Post

In fairness though, the work of the NRC in Canada and further research by Floyd Toole at Harmon indicated that there are criteria by which individuals preferred certain speakers under DBT conditions. Of course, it was not just flat on axis response although that was ONE (and only one) of the criteria.

True. I read that same research paper, as well as many other Harman White Papers. They are very enlightening, but I don't take them as fact or "gospel."
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I'm sure you guessed that both are important to me.

Yes sir, I have. They are important to me too, but they are even more important to my wife (well... the aesthetics part anyway).
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So instead I buy speakers that work well with most of my music, and take my lumps on the really bad recordings.

I wouldn't have it any other way.
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In all seriousness, the Era D14s could be Brandon's budget 'perfect' speaker given his tastes. Eras are very much designed similar to Ascends and the D14 is kinda like a Sierra with more bass and dynamics in theory.

Wow...something good has come out of you both debating. If the Era speaker's are actually recommend by both of you, I simply must hear this speaker!

So John, you say they sound like the Sierra's? Knowing that I liked the Paradigm Studio 100's (minus that bass hump), the Ascend Sierra's and the open airy highs of the Vandersteen's, would you still say the Era D14 is up my ally?

Tim, how would you describe the Era's sound?

Oh, and did either of you get some time in with their matching center channel? It's a MTM design, so I wonder how well it could perform, but maybe you guys can answer that for me (I haven't found many MTM designs that I truly enjoy).

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post #738 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 03:41 PM
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True. I read that same research paper, as well as many other Harman White Papers. They are very enlightening, but I don't take them as fact or "gospel."

I am not sure I take anything as "gospel" unless my wife says it in that certain tone of hers
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post #739 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 03:58 PM
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Wow...something good has come out of you both debating. If the Era speaker's are actually recommend by both of you, I simply must hear this speaker!

So John, you say they sound like the Sierra's? Knowing that I liked the Paradigm Studio 100's (minus that bass hump), the Ascend Sierra's and the open airy highs of the Vandersteen's, would you still say the Era D14 is up my ally?

Tim, how would you describe the Era's sound?

Oh, and did either of you get some time in with their matching center channel? It's a MTM design, so I wonder how well it could perform, but maybe you guys can answer that for me (I haven't found many MTM designs that I truly enjoy).

Man, in less than a day's time this thread has gone from hate central to a love-in. All of us coming together and actually agreeing on many points. This is great!

So how would I describe the sound of the ERA's? Pleasant, well balanced, and a little on the warm / relaxed side, but still with enough musical detail as to not sound dull or lifeless. The opposite of dry and analytical.

Unfortunately though, my time with them was very limited, and I didn't really push them or take them through their paces with a variety of music. They were part of a demonstration show at a local hi-fi shop where most of the other speakers were insanely expensive audiophile status symbols that I just had to hear, so they were the last speaker I made time to hear. I was very pleasantly surprised with their sound after listening to speakers in the $20K - $125K a pair range. In fact I think I was even more impressed because they sounded so good even after hearing the supposed state-of-the-art.

About MTM center speakers. I used to be vehemently opposed to them, mainly based on their horrible off axis performance measurements, but having owned an MTM recently, they can actually sound quite good as long as you don't exceed a 30 degree arc from the center point. I haven't heard the ERA center in particular though.

Cheers, and once again I'm glad to see this thread thriving again.
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post #740 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I am not sure I take anything as "gospel" unless my wife says it in that certain tone of hers

LMAO! Agreed.

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post #741 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 04:09 PM
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just remember that accuracy is just a slice of the equation. I'd rather have an inaccurate, low distortion speaker than an accurate high distortion speaker. I'd also rather have a somewhat forgiving speaker than a somewhat unforgiving speaker, though if you listen to acoustic jazz and classical, you can more easily get away with a more unforgiving speaker. Our Electras didn't sound that great on rock'n'roll, well recorded or no, but sounded pretty amazing on jazz/classical.

In all seriousness, the Era D14s could be Brandon's budget 'perfect' speaker given his tastes. Eras are very much designed similar to Ascends and the D14 is kinda like a Sierra with more bass and dynamics in theory.

Just what 'distortion' are you talking about here John? Are you considering the back wave that exists in box setups and the extent to which it's 'lost'?

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post #742 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 06:20 PM
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Prove it and send me a pair for free.

You think I'm giving up my last pair? Good luck. Though.......one of my customers had to move and is selling a set.
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So John, you say they sound like the Sierra's? Knowing that I liked the Paradigm Studio 100's (minus that bass hump), the Ascend Sierra's and the open airy highs of the Vandersteen's, would you still say the Era D14 is up my ally?

Well, I'm saying they *should* sound similar to the Sierras because they ascribe to very similar designs (and I've never heard Sierras) and type of parts. It depends on what you think of soft domes. I prefer metal domes almost absolutely, but many people can't stand them, even good ones. The treble is probably more like the Sierra, with more of a sshhhhh sound rather than the ding, ding, ding of a metal tweeter. But it is somewhat airy in that it's a little forward of the midrange, at least based on the D4/D5s. i heard these only briefly at CEDIA in a big room, so i haven't formed an exacting impression of them yet. They're not Revel Salon2s, but they're an excellent value if they match up well and they should come close. your perfect speaker? Well, that is asking a lot, but they might come close enough, especially for the money. I only have two or three speakers that qualify as my perfect speaker and they're all between $6k and $22K.

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post #743 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 06:24 PM
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Just what 'distortion' are you talking about here John? Are you considering the back wave that exists in box setups and the extent to which it's 'lost'?

Talking generally. Why do you ask?

John
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post #744 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 06:30 PM
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jI'd rather have an inaccurate, low distortion speaker than an accurate high distortion speaker.

John, what is an "accurate" "high distortion" speaker? If a speaker is distorting, how can it be accurate?

Craig

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. . . (the sound) is somewhat airy in that it's a little forward of the midrange, at least based on the D4/D5s. i heard these only briefly at CEDIA in a big room, so i haven't formed an exacting impression of them yet. They're not Revel Salon2s, but they're an excellent value if they match up well and they should come close.

So John, are you saying that you generally liked the sound of the D4 / D5's when you listened to them at the show?
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post #746 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 06:49 PM
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John, what is an "accurate" "high distortion" speaker? If a speaker is distorting, how can it be accurate?

FR accuracy.

John
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post #747 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 06:56 PM
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So John, are you saying that you generally liked the sound of the D4 / D5's when you listened to them at the show?

i've had D4s and D5s in the show room where i could compare them. Then i closed the old store so i didn't jump on any more, but now that we're opening up a newer, much more elegant home theater showroom, they'll work a lot better for us. i like them overall. Again, I prefer metal tweeters, rather than the soft dome sound, but i'm picky about that and other people equally dislike metal. They offer an instantly likable sound with deep bass and lush midrange. In some ways, they remind me of the old NEAR 10MII we used to carry. i marginally prefer the NHT Three but just about anyone who doesn't like the NHT Three would instantly fall in love with the D5.

Also, i may have heard the D10 at the show, i can't remember. i was in a hurry and David S. was with someone, so i just listened to what they were playing and got the type of sound i'd expected and rolled on. At the time, i wasn't thinking of reopening a showroom so i wasn't thinking about ordering any more - you need to have a place to show the finishes on these.

John
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post #748 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 07:07 PM
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i've had D4s and D5s in the show room where i could compare them.

John,

What are your thoughts on the matching Era MTM center speakers?

Not looking to start a debate about MTM center speakers--that's been done enough. Just curious what your experience has been.

The D4's and D5's are only sold in pairs so using one as a center isn't really an option.

Dan

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post #749 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 07:07 PM
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FR accuracy.

IOW, you prefer a speaker that is not "flat" but has low distortion to a speaker which is "flat" but has high distortion, is that correct? If so, then which of these speaker types would you describe as "colored"? You use that term all the time and I *never* know what it is you are referring to.

Craig

Edit: I should add that a lot of people use the term "colored" to describe a speaker's sound, and I never know what the term means. I think it is a very imprecise descriptor and I (personally) wish people would avoid using it. It seems to be a catch-all for describing something not liked about a speaker, but it doesn't really describe what it is that isn't liked.

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post #750 of 6914 Old 02-20-2008, 07:14 PM
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John,

What are your thoughts on the matching Era MTM center speakers?

Not looking to start a debate about MTM center speakers--that's been done enough. Just curious what your experience has been.

The D4's and D5's are only sold in pairs so using one as a center isn't really an option.

i'm not a good one to ask on that one, at least not yet.

John
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