My Journey to find the "perfect" speaker... - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:12 PM
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Hey Michael.... Actually, I love the combo of the Rotel 1095 with the Paradigms, and have been looking very hard at Rotel for my new setup, as the 1095 has an engineered roll off on the high's, (it was published somewhere) and to me the Digm's need that dampening of the high end on the metal domes for me.... so the combo is actually very smooth... but still not enough to tame that, to me, the somewhat harshness of the metal dome tweeters.

As for the .v2 sigs, I have no idea.. which is why I would love to wrap my ears around the beryllium dome with hopes that it would be far smoother without losing that incredibly intricate accuracy that paradigms seem to have. My ears are very sensitive to that piercing/ringing quality that metal domes seem to have... I'm sure many can attest to having that same feeling towards them... As I have said before I have to EQ that down or out a bit.

Rotel RMB-1095 Sound, great - Power, plenty for the Studio's- Heat, it does get warm, I had to incorporate a couple of 120mm fans in my setup that is totally enclosed from the front to keep it cool... My bedroom setup, all the equipment is in the basement, so heat is not an issue, and I really want to give these S4's more power then the 1095 can provide, just to see what they can do... I know they can handle it, very dynamic speakers - just down right power hungry...

Tomorrow I get the XLR to RCA adapters... I'll hook up the QSC 2502 amps and see what the S4's / C3 have to offer with tons of power behind them.. The Sigs are reputable in that they have a pretty well pronounced dip into the 4ohm region, and 675 to 750 watts @ 4 ohms should really bring them some love... hhehehehe Can't wait to see...
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:16 PM
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ok, your posts seemed as though you were considering a different direction. i guess you were/are being thorough, which is good! for the sound, the rotel does seem like an excellent value.

yep, i had the exact same feeling the first time i heard the 100's. very intricate, yet sometimes piercing. but, i also heard strings (acoustic guitar & violin) and felt they were in the room. i have heard the v2's and feel they have softened the top end a bit.

do you feel the rotel power is on the lower end for the sigs? you may need to consider the anthem p5 if the qsc's don't work. good luck.
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:58 AM
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I haven't compared the Sigs in the room with the 100's that my Rotel is in... Still waiting on my new stands. I'm not thrilled about the idea of removing that amp from my console, at least by myself thats for sure... I shouldn't have put it in there myself, almost did some major damage to my console, which would have made me cry.

I hadn't thought about doing an A/B with the Rotel and QSC, that should be interesting, whether there is a huge amount of difference or not. Powerwise the QSC definately has it in spades.

I have never really compared amps for difference in sound, so I can't comment in that department. My equipment isn't really higher end here.. lets face it, I'm still running receivers as PreAmps here, not that thats all bad, but I really have been waiting for that all in one PreAmp product that includes HDMI, and I just haven't felt all that great about whats available just yet. I have no problem waiting for a PreAmp that I can settle in with... I have to have OSD for my Bedroom with all the Equipment in the basement. Alot of companies have been hesitant about releasing their Stuff because of the transition HDMI has made.

So we'll see how things go...

This has really started to go way off topic, which was not my intention, and any further discussion should run in my own thread, or be taken to Pm... Sorry Brandon...
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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No problem, Warp.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:45 PM
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sorry nuance.
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Old 03-01-2008, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Prepare for an obnoxiously long read; for that I apologize. I also have posted this in other forums, but I haven't had much response. This is the best A/V forum on the internet, so I hope I have better results here.

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Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post

I began a thread on another forum, but not much going on over there so I am going to condense and update it here, in hopes of some more feedback and advice...

LOL - Hey Nuance, I didn't realize how similar we both started off. That was completely unintentional
-Funk

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Old 03-01-2008, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL - Hey Nuance, I didn't realize how similar we both started off. That was completely unintentional
-Funk

I think it is cool. Reading your posts was like reliving mine; very enjoyable and exciting at the same time.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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So I have turned my attention to Era Design D14's. I really want to get some more info on these puppies.

Anyone else care to share their opinions on them?

John, did you get a pair on your showroom floor yet?

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:34 AM
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I have head the Era D10 and D14, and liked what I heard in the D14(D10, not so much), but I had auditioned the Dali Icons literally 5 min before, so my perception of their highs was a little askew. I liked them enough to want to listen to them again with fresh ears for a more true evaluation of their sound. I will also comment about their beautiful appearance. Nice curves in the cabinets, nice finish. They reminded me of some of the more understated French "Art Nouveau" furniture I have studied. In case you have no idea what that sentence means I will state it differently for you: "gol darn, they sure are purdy"
-Funk

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Old 03-05-2008, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post

I have head the Era D10 and D14, and liked what I heard in the D14(D10, not so much), but I had auditioned the Dali Icons literally 5 min before, so my perception of their highs was a little askew. I liked them enough to want to listen to them again with fresh ears for a more true evaluation of their sound. I will also comment about their beautiful appearance. Nice curves in the cabinets, nice finish. They reminded me of some of the more understated French "Art Nouveau" furniture I have studied. In case you have no idea what that sentence means I will state it differently for you: "gol darn, they sure are purdy"
-Funk

Thanks Funk Master! Reading your experience with them in addition to the number of recommendations and other people's experiences has given me the desire to give them an audition. I will be heading to Madison, WI to give them a listen sometime this month (I hope).

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Perhaps my final update:

I've reached a place that I thought I never would; frustration to the point of needing a break. I, as well as some others (especially funkmonkey), have quickly realized that there is no perfect speakers in the $2000-$3000 category. Its frustrating, to say the least, so its time to step back and re-evaluate things. Pair this with some unexpected financial blows to the groin - I need to stop, at least for a while.

I'll be pinching my pennies and will put away all that I can toward my speaker fund, but until I attain those funds, I'm done. Its been fun, but I am exhausted. At least I can live vicariously through other people's experiences and journeys.

Perhaps I will start up again some day; there's just nothing definitively in the works right now. Thanks to all those who've helped me along the way! I sure heard some great equipment and certainly learned a lot.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:37 PM
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I take it that the search for the "perfect" speaker has taken longer than the search for the "perfect" wife?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:25 PM
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I take it that the search for the "perfect" speaker has taken longer than the search for the "perfect" wife?

My right hand never complains about my stereo hobby
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Perhaps my final update:

I've reached a place that I thought I never would; frustration to the point of needing a break. I, as well as some others (especially funkmonkey), have quickly realized that there is no perfect speakers in the $2000-$3000 category. Its frustrating, to say the least, so its time to step back and re-evaluate things. Pair this with some unexpected financial blows to the groin - I need to stop, at least for a while.

I'll be pinching my pennies and will put away all that I can toward my speaker fund, but until I attain those funds, I'm done. Its been fun, but I am exhausted. At least I can live vicariously through other people's experiences and journeys.

Perhaps I will start up again some day; there's just nothing definitively in the works right now. Thanks to all those who've helped me along the way! I sure heard some great equipment and certainly learned a lot.

Do you have an updated list of $2000-$3000 speakers you've heard and what kept them from being 'the perfect speaker' for you?

John
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Perhaps my final update:

I've reached a place that I thought I never would; frustration to the point of needing a break. I, as well as some others (especially funkmonkey), have quickly realized that there is no perfect speakers in the $2000-$3000 category. Its frustrating, to say the least, so its time to step back and re-evaluate things. Pair this with some unexpected financial blows to the groin - I need to stop, at least for a while.

I'll be pinching my pennies and will put away all that I can toward my speaker fund, but until I attain those funds, I'm done. Its been fun, but I am exhausted. At least I can live vicariously through other people's experiences and journeys.

Perhaps I will start up again some day; there's just nothing definitively in the works right now. Thanks to all those who've helped me along the way! I sure heard some great equipment and certainly learned a lot.

Nuance, reading this is seems clear that a break might be best. It seems as if you have lost a bit of your perspective. You began this for sheer joy and it has now morphed into a burden, clearly not what you ever desired to have happen. Just remember those is no perfect speaker in any price category. Everything in life is a give and take; negative must exist to have positive, such is the balance of life. If there was a perfect speaker than only one company would exist. I would suggest you go sit down, put on one of your favorite discs, and just simply enjoy some music for awhile. Tomorrow is a new day and you never know what can happen
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:46 PM
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Oh, BTW, NHT is closing out Xd for $3K through ListenUp. If that's not the closest thing to perfection for $3K, I don't know what is. Never mind that I'm pissed off that no one asked me to help close them out as the most successful of Xd dealers. So, I'm totally out and keeping mine for the bedroom. I suggest taking a chance and getting them. There are 3 or 4 owners here that would probably tell you that they are their 'perfect $15K speaker', not $3K speaker, IMO, probably only the Revel Salon2 can truly surpass them. You certainly have to spend north of $15K or $20K to get close to them *before* you spend money on amps. You name it, they do it. Only one bad thing. The color scheme isn't exactly attractive, but it doesn't matter when you close your eyes. Truly amazing speaker.

John
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Perhaps my final update:

I've reached a place that I thought I never would; frustration to the point of needing a break. I, as well as some others (especially funkmonkey), have quickly realized that there is no perfect speakers in the $2000-$3000 category. Its frustrating, to say the least, so its time to step back and re-evaluate things. Pair this with some unexpected financial blows to the groin - I need to stop, at least for a while.

I'll be pinching my pennies and will put away all that I can toward my speaker fund, but until I attain those funds, I'm done. Its been fun, but I am exhausted. At least I can live vicariously through other people's experiences and journeys.

Perhaps I will start up again some day; there's just nothing definitively in the works right now. Thanks to all those who've helped me along the way! I sure heard some great equipment and certainly learned a lot.

Nuance, brother, I can completely sympathize with you, and if I had a pair of Rockets at home I probably wouldn't have gone to all this effort in the first place! Last week, I felt like this was a job, this week I am having fun again but I really would like to find something I love, and I know that it is going to cost me, big, to find that. I may wind up taking the easier hit and settle for "good enough, for now." I wish you the best of luck my friend, and a huge windfall so that you can go nuts and complete your journey by designing and building your perfect speakers. I say that because I think that is the only way I will be satisfied, and even then they would probably take more than a few tries to get right...
Peace to you and yours
Funk

->>>≈<<<-
Speakerquest
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I take it that the search for the "perfect" speaker has taken longer than the search for the "perfect" wife?

Odd, isn't it?

I guess it was easy to find the perfect wife for me because I was friends with her for years before we started dating (dating back to high school). It was a smooth transition and there were no secrets. I'll never figure out how finding the perfect speaker is harder for me than maintaining a good marriage, though...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega View Post

My right hand never complains about my stereo hobby



Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Nuance, reading this is seems clear that a break might be best. It seems as if you have lost a bit of your perspective. You began this for sheer joy and it has now morphed into a burden, clearly not what you ever desired to have happen. Just remember those is no perfect speaker in any price category. Everything in life is a give and take; negative must exist to have positive, such is the balance of life. If there was a perfect speaker than only one company would exist. I would suggest you go sit down, put on one of your favorite discs, and just simply enjoy some music for awhile. Tomorrow is a new day and you never know what can happen

So true. That is some wise advice ryden. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post

Nuance, brother, I can completely sympathize with you, and if I had a pair of Rockets at home I probably wouldn't have gone to all this effort in the first place! Last week, I felt like this was a job, this week I am having fun again but I really would like to find something I love, and I know that it is going to cost me, big, to find that. I may wind up taking the easier hit and settle for "good enough, for now." I wish you the best of luck my friend, and a huge windfall so that you can go nuts and complete your journey by designing and building your perfect speakers. I say that because I think that is the only way I will be satisfied, and even then they would probably take more than a few tries to get right...
Peace to you and yours
Funk

Thanks for the kind words. I hope to one day be financially secure so I can delve back into this and perhaps even work in this field. I'd imagine actually loving what I do for a living would be quite amazing.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Perhaps my final update:

I've reached a place that I thought I never would; frustration to the point of needing a break. I, as well as some others (especially funkmonkey), have quickly realized that there is no perfect speakers in the $2000-$3000 category. Its frustrating, to say the least, so its time to step back and re-evaluate things. Pair this with some unexpected financial blows to the groin - I need to stop, at least for a while. ....

Let me just modify that statement in bold above. It should read, "there are no perfect speakers, period".

This is the single most important thing that I have learned in going through, now eight complete 5-channel systems in eight years. I have slowly become less critical and started to focus on the qualities that I enjoy about the speakers I've listened to, rather than focusing on the faults. The only thing you can do is find the speakers that hit most of the qualities you are after while doing nothing completely offensive (sins of omission are always easier to live with than sins of commission).

And at some point you need to stop and smell the roses.

Brandon, those Rockets and the Emotiva gear that you own I'm sure is capable of bringing you more enjoyment than some Bose system or some horrible white van speakers (sorry funkmonkey ). So count your blessings, relax, pick up some new music, or put in your favorite CD and enjoy what you have.

I certainly enjoyed every second that I listened to the MA GS's, right up to the point that I parted with them, rather than focusing on the sound I was going to get from the Focal's. in fact, I distinctly remember coming back from the Focal speaker audition and putting in my audition CD and going "wow, that sounds really good!".

I seem to remember you being pretty exited to take home the Rockets. You can get back there if you let yourself.
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Do you have an updated list of $2000-$3000 speakers you've heard and what kept them from being 'the perfect speaker' for you?

Sure, I can provide a quick list and con list.

MA RS6’s – Didn’t really have an engaging midrange. I agree with Jim Salk completely that in order for a speaker to be engaging, it needs to get the midrange “right.” It’s all about the midrange for me, something the MA’s just didn’t excel in. They also had a slight mechanical sound to them.

Vandersteen 1C’s. These are ugly speakers, at least IMO (and my wife’s). They also don’t dig down low and aren’t the most dynamic speakers.

Vandersteen 2CE Sig II’s – Again we run into the looks factor. The sock is a cool idea, but it’s not practical for my home anymore (I have a daughter, and a bun in the oven due in mid October) - the “grill” isn’t very protective. And, as you all probably already know, Vandersteen’s have a small listening window and are very finicky about setup/calibration. My new basement kind of sucks for sound, so these just weren’t working out. In a dedicated room with treatments – very doable. These speakers definitely have a realistic and detailed midrange, though.

Paradigm Studio 100’s – They are a little bright after extensive listening and lacked that engaging midrange I crave. Funkmonkey said it best when he said that he hasn’t heard a speaker that has yet portrayed symbols accurately. The Digm’s fall into this category. They also struggled with horns.

Swan Diva 6.2 – The bass was a tad sloppy and I probably would have suffered listener fatigue if listening for extended periods. The midrange was okay, but nothing to write home about. I had hoped for a smoother, more detailed treble.

Rocket 850 Sig’s – These are very comparable to the Paradigm’s. Can be a bit bright at times and don’t convey the horns and symbols as realistically as I want.

Salk Song Towers – This speaker is probably the best of all I’ve heard in the $3000 and less range. This is also the only speaker that had the captivating, realistic and engaging midrange that I desire. However, it is ID so I’d have to order it and hope it sounds good in my crappy basement. This speaker is one that I’d love to own, though. It’s not perfect, but I doubt I’ll find anything this good for $1500 or even $3000. Honestly, I was saving up for a pair until I got kicked in the nuts by some financial demons.

Those are the ones that I can remember off the top of my head. If I had to choose, it would be the Salk’s. Like I said, I was going to buy a pair, but…

If things change down the road, I’ll be back in a flash. I really want to hear a lot more speakers (Aerial, Revel, JM Labs/Focal, Salk Veracity’s, and Era’s immediately come to mind, not to mention more offerings that Mark Schifter is releasing), but if I can’t, I can’t.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Let me just modify that statement in bold above. It should read, "there are no perfect speakers, period".

This is the single most important thing that I have learned in going through, now eight complete 5-channel systems in eight years. I have slowly become less critical and started to focus on the qualities that I enjoy about the speakers I've listened to, rather than focusing on the faults. The only thing you can do is find the speakers that hit most of the qualities you are after while doing nothing completely offensive (sins of omission are always easier to live with than sins of commission).

And at some point you need to stop and smell the roses.

Brandon, those Rockets and the Emotiva gear that you own I'm sure is capable of bringing you more enjoyment than some Bose system or some horrible white van speakers (sorry funkmonkey ). So count your blessings, relax, pick up some new music, or put in your favorite CD and enjoy what you have.

I certainly enjoyed every second that I listened to the MA GS's, right up to the point that I parted with them, rather than focusing on the sound I was going to get from the Focal's. in fact, I distinctly remember coming back from the Focal speaker audition and putting in my audition CD and going "wow, that sounds really good!".

I seem to remember you being pretty exited to take home the Rockets. You can get back there if you let yourself.

You're right. I appreciate having things brought into perspective by you guys. I will be enjoying what I have until I can resume my journey (if I ever can). Lets just hope I don't have to sell off my current gear to help assist with this unexpected blow...

Thanks guys.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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Old 03-13-2008, 08:33 PM
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Sorry about the money situation. The 'jump on Xd' is a really fantastic idea if you have $3K sitting around. i doubt they'll last long at that price.

Well, maybe take a break, relax and we can reconvene in a few months

John
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:27 PM
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Sorry about the money situation. The 'jump on Xd' is a really fantastic idea if you have $3K sitting around. i doubt they'll last long at that price.

Well, maybe take a break, relax and we can reconvene in a few months

Always a salesman.
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Old 03-14-2008, 05:54 AM
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I wonder why nht is closing out the xd?

Everything I say here is my opinion. It is not my employers opinion, it is not my wife's opinion, it is not my neighbors opinion, it is My Opinion.
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:09 AM
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Always a salesman.

How does that make me a salesman? This is like my favorite telenovela.

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Old 03-14-2008, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, maybe take a break, relax and we can reconvene in a few months

I hope so.

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Old 03-14-2008, 08:25 AM
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I wonder why nht is closing out the xd?

Too many negatives aside from the sound. People don't seem to be ready for active speakers for some reason, aside from being too cheap to be high-end, to expensive to be mass market, a sub/sat. Lots of things, though they were a huge success for us. In the case of these, they have a pretty controversial finish.

John
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:31 AM
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Nuance,

Sorry to hear about the setbacks that have come forth as of recently. I enjoyed reading your thread hoping maybe the journey was near completion and you would find that special speaker which truly satisfied all your needs. This hobby unfortunately can become a luxury and when times are tight, it loses priority rather quickly. Hope things turn around sooner than later for you.

Keep me informed, I imagine the PA trip is probably on hold for the time being.

Later,
Brandon
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:33 AM
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Alimentall,

Being the NHT rep around here, any thoughts on the power5 amp? I just bought a proceed amp3 for my ascend sierras and ran across the closeouts deals going on for this amp. The ICE power intrigues me, why are they being discontinued?

Thanks,
Brandon
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Nuance,

Sorry to hear about the setbacks that have come forth as of recently. I enjoyed reading your thread hoping maybe the journey was near completion and you would find that special speaker which truly satisfied all your needs. This hobby unfortunately can become a luxury and when times are tight, it loses priority rather quickly. Hope things turn around sooner than later for you.

Keep me informed, I imagine the PA trip is probably on hold for the time being.

Later,
Brandon

I'll keep you posted.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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