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post #151 of 6914 Old 10-17-2007, 01:18 PM
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Treemed67 -

What you described, is just the type of revelation I am looking for. My budget is decent by most peoples standards, but I certainly can't spend $10K on a CD player. Would if I could, but it sounds like you are in a different league than me.

As much as I would like to have a dedicated two-channel system, my set-up has to serve both for HT and music. Considering that, I recently purchased (and quickly sold) the Anthem Statement D2 prepro and the matching A5 multi-channel amp. I heard absolutely no difference in the sound quality produced by those $10K seperates over my Denon AVR. Before that, I spent $6K on the NAD Master Series seperates. Again, no noticable difference.

So my budget is around $10K for a prepro and multichannel amp. I'm currently considering the upcoming Primare gear. They are supposed to have a new prepro and amp out by the end of the year. Any thoughts on that brand? Any alternatives?

How do you sift through all the "me too brands"? How do you know what to even consider?
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post #152 of 6914 Old 10-17-2007, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I recently purchased (and quickly sold) the Anthem Statement D2 prepro and the matching A5 multi-channel amp. I heard absolutely no difference in the sound quality produced by those $10K seperates over my Denon AVR.

Anthem products are known in high-end circles as very mediocre sounding. They have excellent features but sound is far away from desirable. I'm not surprised then that you didn't hear improvement over Denon. Denon is good for the price, and I would predict that the sound is roughly in the Anthem region. But, there are clearly things that would outclass both handily and don't require an arm and a leg in price.

Give me a few days, let me think about alternatives, as there are so many, and I'll let you know what I think we'll make you more than happy at your price point.

Can you describe your current system, list all components?
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post #153 of 6914 Old 10-17-2007, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Treemed67 -

What you described, is just the type of revelation I am looking for. My budget is decent by most peoples standards, but I certainly can't spend $10K on a CD player. Would if I could, but it sounds like you are in a different league than me.

As much as I would like to have a dedicated two-channel system, my set-up has to serve both for HT and music. Considering that, I recently purchased (and quickly sold) the Anthem Statement D2 prepro and the matching A5 multi-channel amp. I heard absolutely no difference in the sound quality produced by those $10K seperates over my Denon AVR. Before that, I spent $6K on the NAD Master Series seperates. Again, no noticable difference.

So my budget is around $10K for a prepro and multichannel amp. I'm currently considering the upcoming Primare gear. They are supposed to have a new prepro and amp out by the end of the year. Any thoughts on that brand? Any alternatives?

How do you sift through all the "me too brands"? How do you know what to even consider?[/quote]

Well, I have to say, if you didn't hear a difference with the Master Series, why not just stick with a good receiver and upgrade the speakers? The difference between a good receiver and good separates is often overblown and, when you look at the importance of speakers/room/setup, is probably one of the least important factors, as long as it is decent. I don't think spending $10K on separates will give you anything that the Masters Series didn't. If you didn't notice that difference, I don't think you'd have much of a chance of noticing $10K stuff as the NAD is as good as any of the $10K stuff I've seen/heard.

What speaker/configuration are you using now?

John
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post #154 of 6914 Old 10-17-2007, 02:13 PM
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Ah, Paradigm S4s? Maybe those could be upgraded instead? What performance enhancement are you seeking? Heck, an NAD T775 or T785 with Audyssey might make more of a difference for you than $10K separates which are just "straight wire with gain".

John
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post #155 of 6914 Old 10-17-2007, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post


Well, I have to say, if you didn't hear a difference with the Master Series, why not just stick with a good receiver and upgrade the speakers? The difference between a good receiver and good separates is often overblown and, when you look at the importance of speakers/room/setup, is probably one of the least important factors, as long as it is decent. I don't think spending $10K on separates will give you anything that the Masters Series didn't. If you didn't notice that difference, I don't think you'd have much of a chance of noticing $10K stuff as the NAD is as good as any of the $10K stuff I've seen/heard.

What speaker/configuration are you using now?

Funny enough, I recently did just that (replaced the speakers). While I was very happy with the S4's when I got them, and I enjoyed them for a couple of years, I just wasn't getting that illusion of reality when listening to music that I know is possible.

Surprisingly, I actually ended up with a set of speakers this time that cost about 30% less than the Paradigms I used to own. But they do a much better job in the areas of transparency, clarity, and detail than the Paradigms. In fact, in my experience, they are a close as I have heard to an ESL speaker in terms of midrange clarity and transparency for a dynamic driver speaker (without the phasey, often compressed sound of ESLs). They sound less like "hi-fi" and more like the real thing. Even more surprising is that in addition to the improvement in sound quality, the fit and finish on these speakers is actually better than the more expensive Sigs. So what did I choose? The Monitor Audio Gold Signature line.

Sorry Alimentall, I considered the NHT's but there is no dealer in my area that carries them.

About the NAD Master Series seperates . . . I have to admit that they did sound marginally smoother and more relaxed than my Denon (which I liked), but not enough to offset the difficulties I had with their interface and the lack of HDMI audio processing. Do you know if NAD plans to update the prepro any time soon?
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post #156 of 6914 Old 10-17-2007, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by treemed67 View Post

Anthem products are known in high-end circles as very mediocre sounding. They have excellent features but sound is far away from desirable. I'm not surprised then that you didn't hear improvement over Denon. Denon is good for the price, and I would predict that the sound is roughly in the Anthem region. But, there are clearly things that would outclass both handily and don't require an arm and a leg in price.

Give me a few days, let me think about alternatives, as there are so many, and I'll let you know what I think we'll make you more than happy at your price point.

Can you describe your current system, list all components?

The problem I find is that there aren't that many makers of high-end HT front end gear and those that do qualify don't have enough 6-channel inputs for a HD-DVD player, a seperate Blu-ray player, and an SACD player, nor do they have HDMI inputs that process audio. That is why I asked about Primare. What do you think of them? Or how about Parasound Halo?

My current gear:
Monintor Audio GS60's (L/R), GSLCR (center), GSFX's (rear)
Denon 4306 AVR
Denon 3910 CD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A
Toshiba HD-DVD player
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post #157 of 6914 Old 10-17-2007, 04:35 PM
 
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Hi all. This is Brandon's (Nuance's) wife. I created this screen name a week or so ago in order to talk to a few people (specifically Craigsub) concerning my husband starting this thread. Brandon's close friends clued me in as to what he really wanted, so I figured I would wait until he purchased his front speakers and then get him the matching center. I wanted to try to hide away some money and put it toward the center for him for Christmas, but the cat is out of the bag. Anyway, Brandon (Nuance) wanted me to jump on here since he found out about my screen name and tell you that he was temporarily banned for comments made in the rocket versus swan thread that Craig started...whatever that means. He'll be back tonight when the "ban" is lifted.

Okay, back to work...
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post #158 of 6914 Old 10-17-2007, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CheerCoach View Post

Hi all. This is Brandon's (Nuance's) wife. I created this screen name a week or so ago in order to talk to a few people (specifically Craigsub) concerning my husband starting this thread. Brandon's close friends clued me in as to what he really wanted, so I figured I would wait until he purchased his front speakers and then get him the matching center. I wanted to try to hide away some money and put it toward the center for him for Christmas, but the cat is out of the bag. Anyway, Brandon (Nuance) wanted me to jump on here since he found out about my screen name and tell you that he was temporarily banned for comments made in the rocket versus swan thread that Craig started...whatever that means. He'll be back tonight when the "ban" is lifted.

Okay, back to work...

Has he decided on a set of speakers?
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post #159 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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No, he hasn't.

All right, I am back and happy to be here. Sorry about my absence, but I had no say in the matter.

I will fill you all in on my "journey" later today, but you should know I'm still looking for that "perfect" speaker for my ears.

In the mean time, I loved the discussion regarding front end electronics. In my experience, my opinion falls amongst treemed's and John's (Alimentall's). IOW, you really have to find a gem in the rough concerning electronics. Many sound the same, but every once in a while you'll find a diamond in the pile of coal. Unfortunately, you'll more than likely pay up the wazoo for it.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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post #160 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

No, he hasn't.

All right, I am back and happy to be here. Sorry about my absence, but I had no say in the matter.

I will fill you all in on my "journey" later today, but you should know I'm still looking for that "perfect" speaker for my ears.

In the mean time, I loved the discussion regarding front end electronics. In my experience, my opinion falls amongst treemed's and John's (Alimentall's). IOW, you really have to find a gem in the rough concerning electronics. Many sound the same, but every once in a while you'll find a diamond in the pile of coal. Unfortunately, you'll more than likely pay up the wazoo for it.

You know, if you find that diamond in the pile of coal, chances are that it's really cubic zirconium! In my experience, if a piece of electronics (the diamond) sounds very different than every other piece of electronics (the coal), the diamond usually has false brilliance.

Tony

In search of the Holy Grail.

Hometown team
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post #161 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

You know, if you find that diamond in the pile of coal, chances are that it's really cubic zirconium! In my experience, if a piece of electronics (the diamond) sounds very different than every other piece of electronics (the coal), the diamond usually has false brilliance.

Ah, yes, well said. And I concur. Some speaker cables, preamps, amps, ect, they are purposefully designed to produce a certain sound that makes it stand out from others. Some may think this item produces better bass, more extended highs or a more forward midrange, but is it really "better?" Is it "accurate" to what a live performance would sound like? More than likely the answer is no.

Good point Tony; one that should not be overlooked.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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post #162 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

BTW, I don't like ML's. They bother my ears after a couple of minutes. The edge is too sharp. The only Maggies I ever heard were early models and were plain awful...and then there was my ex...named Maggie...UGHHHHHHH! I can't hear the name without tensing up...just a little, lol.

I didn't really like the older MLs for the same reason. However, I like their newer stuff (Vista/Vantage/Summit). It can be harsh if you neglect room treatments, but they sound phenomenal once done right. Tubes somewhere in the chain... ahh.... good stuff.

Joey's Thought of the Moment:
Working on the analog system...
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post #163 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

No, he hasn't.

All right, I am back and happy to be here. Sorry about my absence, but I had no say in the matter.

I will fill you all in on my "journey" later today, but you should know I'm still looking for that "perfect" speaker for my ears.

In the mean time, I loved the discussion regarding front end electronics. In my experience, my opinion falls amongst treemed's and John's (Alimentall's). IOW, you really have to find a gem in the rough concerning electronics. Many sound the same, but every once in a while you'll find a diamond in the pile of coal. Unfortunately, you'll more than likely pay up the wazoo for it.

Nuance,

You mentioned you were looking at the Strata Minis? Well I'm the guy who wrote the first review on them at AV123. In fact, I had them right next to my MLs during the entire review. We have several people in Chicago with Minis, if you want to audition this little guy.... and we all get-together once in a while. In fact, I have a Mini owner coming over to my place today to listen to my system for the 4th time. We're getting a TT set up tonight and we're going to compare vinyl vs digital.

Should be fun!

You should join our audiophile gang!

Joey's Thought of the Moment:
Working on the analog system...
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post #164 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

You know it's funny, because you are the first I have heard share my experience that there is a physical discomfort when listening to ML's. I actually owned a pair of the medium sized ML "Aeon's" a few years back. I bought them because in a short auditions they sounded good to me, and I thought they looked really cool. However, after owning them for a few months, I noticed that they really bothered my ears after even just a few minutes of listening. For me it wasn't a tonal balance issue though. Sure they would sound agressive in the treble if pushed, but the discomfort I felt was regardless of volume. This may sound strange, but it felt like they were causing pressure on my eardrums, much like when your ears become pressurized during a airplane flight. But man were they "transparent" on vocal tracks and small jazz ensembles.

To be honest, I never found the Aeons to be good. Lower end Logans never did the music justice. It had wow-factor... this is what I feel people get sold on at first, but in the long term, the deficiencies of a small panel and a lackluster bass foundation eats away at you.

I've never been disappointed with my current MLs.

Do I get attracted to a dynamic conventional speaker still? Yes.... lots of times. There are certain things that I like in a conventional speaker that I feel I'm not exactly getting from the ML Summits (and vice versa). However, at the end of the day, I have not found a speaker that gives me the vocal reproduction that my speakers do. This includes Quads.

I've never heard Soundlabs and people say this is the bee's-knees for stats... one day.

Though I've become interested in the BW 802D and the Usher BE10 lately....

I suppose in the end, there is no perfect speaker... just a speaker that you can enjoy your music with and something that does more good than bad.

Joey's Thought of the Moment:
Working on the analog system...
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post #165 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Joey_V View Post

To be honest, I never found the Aeons to be good. Lower end Logans never did the music justice. It had wow-factor... this is what I feel people get sold on at first, but in the long term, the deficiencies of a small panel and a lackluster bass foundation eats away at you.

I've never been disappointed with my current MLs.

Do I get attracted to a dynamic conventional speaker still? Yes.... lots of times. There are certain things that I like in a conventional speaker that I feel I'm not exactly getting from the ML Summits (and vice versa). However, at the end of the day, I have not found a speaker that gives me the vocal reproduction that my speakers do. This includes Quads.

I've never heard Soundlabs and people say this is the bee's-knees for stats... one day.

Though I've become interested in the BW 802D and the Usher BE10 lately....

I suppose in the end, there is no perfect speaker... just a speaker that you can enjoy your music with and something that does more good than bad.

If you are looking for a dynamic driver speaker that is in the same league as the Summit that also has close to the transparency of an ESL, check out the Monitor Audio Platinum line or possibly the Dali Euphonia.

I am familiar with just how good ESL's can be with vocals, in fact I agree that there really is no technology that truly compares for vocals, but the Monitor Audio's are very close. I have the MA Gold Signatures, and the main thing that attracted me to them was their clarity and transparency.

http://www.platinumseries.co.uk/
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post #166 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

If you are looking for a dynamic driver speaker that is in the same league as the Summit that also has close to the transparency of an ESL, check out the Monitor Audio Platinum line or possibly the Dali Euphonia.

I am familiar with just how good ESL's can be with vocals, in fact I agree that there really is no technology that truly compares for vocals, but the Monitor Audio's are very close. I have the MA Gold Signatures, and the main thing that attracted me to them was their clarity and transparency.

http://www.platinumseries.co.uk/

HFS,

Familiar with the Euphonias... not my cup of tea. Does not compare to the Summits with vocals.

However, I have not heard the MA Gold Sigs... I think we have a dealer nearby. I'll stop by when I get the chance.

I have yet to hear the BE10 by Usher, reviews have been very favorable for this speaker.

Joey's Thought of the Moment:
Working on the analog system...
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post #167 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Joey_V View Post

HFS,

Familiar with the Euphonias... not my cup of tea. Does not compare to the Summits with vocals.

However, I have not heard the MA Gold Sigs... I think we have a dealer nearby. I'll stop by when I get the chance.

I have yet to hear the BE10 by Usher, reviews have been very favorable for this speaker.


Definitely check out the MA Gold Sigs, but really, since you are coming from $10K ML's, you would probably want to step up to the Platinum line.

What was it about the sound of the Dali's that you didn't like?
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post #168 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Joey, yes I certainly want to audition the Mini's. In fact, I will be heading to Craigsub's place (provided things are going well with his sister) next weekend. He has a pair of Mini's and many other speakers available for audition. I have known him on this forum for years, but we have never had the chance to meet. Well, its finally going to happen.

Joey, even though I am going to hear the Mini's at Craig's I would certainly love to hear what else you have, and also how the Mini's sound in a different room environment. Do you live in Chicago or a suburb of it? Chi-town is only a 100 minute drive or so for me (without traffic) so it's definitely worth the trip. Thanks for the offer!

So this weekend didn't go as planned. I ended up having to work a side-job at the last minute, so all of my attention went to that. However, I already have plans to hit 2 or 3 of the nicer B&M shops around here this weekend. I will be in Madison on Saturday for most of the day, but I may be able to sneak into a shop while there or in the late afternoon. Tomorrow night I will try to hit one as well. Finally, the Packers don't play Sunday, so I will definitely make an audition trip then.

Here is a list of the local shops and what they carry. Can those who have heard these brands give their impressions (thanks to those that already have)?

Ultra Fidelis: Milwaukee
Sonus Faber
Speaker Craft
Linn
Monitor Audio
Vandersteen
Vienna Acoustics
ProAc

This store is my favorite of the local shops because of the variety and setup. The building is an old two story house and has showrooms set up on each level. I have the most experience with Vandersteen of the speaker brands I listed above, of course. I have also heard the Monitor Audio RS6' and 8's and the ProAc's (forget what model). I should mention, while I search for my perfect speaker I will also be searching for a "perfect" set of front end electronics. Ultra Fidelis also carries Parasound, Halo and Audio Research pre amps and amps. It's been a while since I have been there, so it should be a blast. I think I will need an entire day dedicated to this shop...maybe two.

Flanners Audio and Video: Brookfield
Martin Logan
Monitor Audio
Snell
Canton
Definitive Technology


Audio Emporium: Brown Deer
B&W
Paradigm


Of the other mentioned brands I have the most experience with B&W, Paradigm, Canton and Def Tech. I quickly dismissed Def Tech the few times I heard them because I don't like the sound of a bi/di-polar. I do like Paradigm, but it's been a while since I last listened, and since then they released .v4.

Anyway, I hope to hear all of those brands by the end of the month. After that I will start heading out of state or to other cities in WI. I believe Green Bay and Madison have some B&M shops.

So that's where I am with my "journey." I have been stuck at a stand-still until this point, but that's going to change this weekend. Woohoo; I cannot wait!

Speaking of which, I am going to listen to a lot of Mark Schifter's products while at Craigs. As I said in my very first post, I will certainly be auditioning a lot of the ID products because of their performance to value ratio. Reading about Mark Schifter's products gets me real excited because he always has something new up his sleeve or a way to better improve his current products. So yeah, I think it's safe to say I am very much looking forward to the road trip (I have heard and owned Rocket's before, but now I get to audition the newer Rockets with the Danny Richie crossover, not to mention other speaker lines from Mr. Schifter.). Yippee!

Wish me luck and thanks for all the help!

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
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post #169 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Definitely check out the MA Gold Sigs, but really, since you are coming from $10K ML's, you would probably want to step up to the Platinum line.

What was it about the sound of the Dali's that you didn't like?

Okay, I am confused... So MA released a new line called the Platinum line? And it's better than their Gold line?

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No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
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post #170 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Okay, I am confused... So MA released a new line called the Platinum line? And it's better than their Gold line?

Yes, yes. You can check them out here:

http://www.platinumseries.co.uk/

The floorstanders in the Platinum line are $8500 / pair, whereas the top of the line GS tower is only $4000 / pair. The build quality on the Platinums is as good as it gets IMO. Real high-quality leather front baffle, unique zebrawood veneer with what looks like a 1/2 inch of varnish over top, totally revised drivers (Nomex and C-CAM mid/bass and ribbon tweeter), WBT binding posts, machined aluminum trim, etc. They have the technology of a high-performance automobile and the look of modern fine furniture.

I would have been all over them, but I just don't have the space.
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post #171 of 6914 Old 10-18-2007, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Yes, yes. You can check them out here:

http://www.platinumseries.co.uk/

The floorstanders in the Platinum line are $8500 / pair, whereas the top of the line GS tower is only $4000 / pair. The build quality on the Platinums is as good as it gets IMO. Real high-quality leather front baffle, unique zebrawood veneer with what looks like a 1/2 inch of varnish over top, totally revised drivers (Nomex and C-CAM mid/bass and ribbon tweeter), WBT binding posts, machined aluminum trim, etc. They have the technology of a high-performance automobile and the look of modern fine furniture.

I would have been all over them, but I just don't have the space.

Hey H-F-S,

I have the space if you have a few extra bucks to spare.

I have a quick comment or two on misc. items....

The last ML's I auditioned were the Summits. They are THE most dynamic speaker I've ever heard...but it's just way over the top for my ears. The clarity cuts like a knife instead of sounding...uh...natural (for lack of a better word). But that's just one knucklehead's opinion. They're for certain wonderful speakers.

I adore MA speakers. The S8's sound more like my speakers than my speakers do, lol. The Gold series is terrific! I really hope to hear the fancy lookin' new Platinum series some time.

Brandon, if you don't find a way to audition Aerials, I'm gonna hunt you down and beat you like a dawg.

Have a good weekend everyone. It's my wife's birthday Saturday. I'd sure like to buy her a new set of speakers, lol!!!

MARGARITAS,
they're not just for breakfast anymore.
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post #172 of 6914 Old 10-19-2007, 02:51 AM
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The last ML's I auditioned were the Summits. They are THE most dynamic speaker I've ever heard...but it's just way over the top for my ears. The clarity cuts like a knife instead of sounding...uh...natural (for lack of a better word). But that's just one knucklehead's opinion. They're for certain wonderful speakers.

Nice that you auditioned the Summits! A fellow Chicago audiophile came by today (owns the AV123 Minis) and he helped me set up my TT. We listened for a good hour or two, and pretty much said, "I don't know how you do it but it was simply the best system I've ever heard."

The beauty was that we pushed the envelope once we got the TT spinning...

Not once did he complain about it being overly bright or have a top end sizzle. Of course, I have a Cary tube preamp at the helm and a class A Plinius amp (that tends to run on the warmer side of sound).

I've heard Summits sound god-awful though.... at the dealers....

It's a tough speaker to master. I've had it for 2 years and I still have a long ways to go. I need to work on room treatments to tame the last remnants of audio infidelity (if that's even a word).

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post #173 of 6914 Old 10-19-2007, 02:55 AM
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Joey, yes I certainly want to audition the Mini's. In fact, I will be heading to Craigsub's place (provided things are going well with his sister) next weekend. He has a pair of Mini's and many other speakers available for audition. I have known him on this forum for years, but we have never had the chance to meet. Well, its finally going to happen.

Joey, even though I am going to hear the Mini's at Craig's I would certainly love to hear what else you have, and also how the Mini's sound in a different room environment. Do you live in Chicago or a suburb of it? Chi-town is only a 100 minute drive or so for me (without traffic) so it's definitely worth the trip. Thanks for the offer!

So this weekend didn't go as planned. I ended up having to work a side-job at the last minute, so all of my attention went to that. However, I already have plans to hit 2 or 3 of the nicer B&M shops around here this weekend. I will be in Madison on Saturday for most of the day, but I may be able to sneak into a shop while there or in the late afternoon. Tomorrow night I will try to hit one as well. Finally, the Packers don't play Sunday, so I will definitely make an audition trip then.

Here is a list of the local shops and what they carry. Can those who have heard these brands give their impressions (thanks to those that already have)?

Ultra Fidelis: Milwaukee
Sonus Faber
Speaker Craft
Linn
Monitor Audio
Vandersteen
Vienna Acoustics
ProAc

This store is my favorite of the local shops because of the variety and setup. The building is an old two story house and has showrooms set up on each level. I have the most experience with Vandersteen of the speaker brands I listed above, of course. I have also heard the Monitor Audio RS6' and 8's and the ProAc's (forget what model). I should mention, while I search for my perfect speaker I will also be searching for a "perfect" set of front end electronics. Ultra Fidelis also carries Parasound, Halo and Audio Research pre amps and amps. It's been a while since I have been there, so it should be a blast. I think I will need an entire day dedicated to this shop...maybe two.

Flanners Audio and Video: Brookfield
Martin Logan
Monitor Audio
Snell
Canton
Definitive Technology


Audio Emporium: Brown Deer
B&W
Paradigm


Of the other mentioned brands I have the most experience with B&W, Paradigm, Canton and Def Tech. I quickly dismissed Def Tech the few times I heard them because I don't like the sound of a bi/di-polar. I do like Paradigm, but it's been a while since I last listened, and since then they released .v4.

Anyway, I hope to hear all of those brands by the end of the month. After that I will start heading out of state or to other cities in WI. I believe Green Bay and Madison have some B&M shops.

So that's where I am with my "journey." I have been stuck at a stand-still until this point, but that's going to change this weekend. Woohoo; I cannot wait!

Speaking of which, I am going to listen to a lot of Mark Schifter's products while at Craigs. As I said in my very first post, I will certainly be auditioning a lot of the ID products because of their performance to value ratio. Reading about Mark Schifter's products gets me real excited because he always has something new up his sleeve or a way to better improve his current products. So yeah, I think it's safe to say I am very much looking forward to the road trip (I have heard and owned Rocket's before, but now I get to audition the newer Rockets with the Danny Richie crossover, not to mention other speaker lines from Mr. Schifter.). Yippee!

Wish me luck and thanks for all the help!

1. You are very welcome to come over to my apt and listen to my setup. We have a Mini setup at my local buddy's place about 4 blocks from mine. We also have another buddy about 6 blocks from us who has Von Schweikert VR4jr.... another set of speakers that are within your range.

2. I would suggest to go to University Audio in Madison, WI. They have Martin Logans and I bought mine from Ben here. He will allow you to play with the setup as much as you want and he will bend to suit your wishes/desires/haggles.

3. Good luck with your busy weekend. I doubt you will be able to listen to all the speakers on your list though, I've never been able to do it when I shopped for my perfect speaker.

4. Good to hear that you're auditioning at Craig's place. The guy's a knowledgeable man. I've run into him on the forums several times. There was a time when we completely disagreed on a subject and it wasn't a very good relationship online for a bit... but we've cooled off and I have a lot of respect for the guy. Say hello for me.

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post #174 of 6914 Old 10-19-2007, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Brandon, if you don't find a way to audition Aerials, I'm gonna hunt you down and beat you like a dawg.

Have a good weekend everyone. It's my wife's birthday Saturday. I'd sure like to buy her a new set of speakers, lol!!!

I'll get there. The Doc already invited me to take a listen at his place...if that invitation still stands. They are certainly on my audition list.

LOL...I wish I could buy my wife speakers for her birthday too; or maybe an HD-DVD player to go with my Blue Ray player. I wouldn't dare. HA!
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1. You are very welcome to come over to my apt and listen to my setup. We have a Mini setup at my local buddy's place about 4 blocks from mine. We also have another buddy about 6 blocks from us who has Von Schweikert VR4jr.... another set of speakers that are within your range.

2. I would suggest to go to University Audio in Madison, WI. They have Martin Logans and I bought mine from Ben here. He will allow you to play with the setup as much as you want and he will bend to suit your wishes/desires/haggles.

3. Good luck with your busy weekend. I doubt you will be able to listen to all the speakers on your list though, I've never been able to do it when I shopped for my perfect speaker.

4. Good to hear that you're auditioning at Craig's place. The guy's a knowledgeable man. I've run into him on the forums several times. There was a time when we completely disagreed on a subject and it wasn't a very good relationship online for a bit... but we've cooled off and I have a lot of respect for the guy. Say hello for me.

Thanks for the tips, Joey. I would love to hear your setup as well as your buddies. We'll have to schedule a Saturday together. Thanks for the invite! And you are correct; I won't be able to listen to everything. I will concentrate on the brands that made it from my research list to my audition list. I will be in Madison Saturday so maybe I'll hit University Audio, though I will only have an hour there.

I know this is the wrong section, but this is my thread so I'll ask anyway: What do you guys recommend as far as a pre-amp and amp? I admit that I have spent much more time researching and listening to speakers than I have anything else. The gear that I previously I had I sold. I am getting a sweet deal from a friend on a pre-amp and amp, but my question concerns the be all, best of the best (within a reasonable price). I know I will have to replace the pre-amp occasionally due to technology changes, but I would like to find an amp with great power, low total harmonic distortion and one that maintains its rated power (or very close) with all channels driven. I don't care if its tube or solid state or whatever...I just want some suggestions to look in to. Also, the pre-amp has to have HDMI switching but also a passthrough option so it doesn't do any video processing, but instead just passes the signal along untouched. I want my TV to do all the processing. I will also add that request in my first post.

Thanks all!

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post #175 of 6914 Old 10-19-2007, 10:42 AM
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[quote=Nuance;11952903I know this is the wrong section, but this is my thread so I'll ask anyway: What do you guys recommend as far as a pre-amp and amp? [/QUOTE]

I think I have a sense for your budget, B. Give this a looksee. I think they have great bang-for-buck presentation and look lovely to the eye. The Professional Theater Series should do everything you want including making breakfast on Saturdays.

http://www.emotiva.com/products.html

I own the meager BPA-1 for my office setup and love its flexibility. It drives my ACI's and controls my baby sub. 'Twill also drive subs.

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post #176 of 6914 Old 10-19-2007, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I have a sense for your budget, B. Give this a looksee. I think they have great bang-for-buck presentation and look lovely to the eye. The Professional Theater Series should do everything you want including making breakfast on Saturdays.

http://www.emotiva.com/products.html

I own the meager BPA-1 for my office setup and love its flexibility. It drives my ACI's and controls my baby sub. 'Twill also drive subs.

HA! It's funny you linked the Emotiva stuff to me because I will be acquiring the Ultra Theater series stuff for a VERY good price from a real nice guy. They, of course, will tide me over for quite some time. I have yet to search for reviews on the Emotiva stuff, however. How is their power and total harmonic distortion when all the channels are driven?

There are so many amps (and pre-amps) out there, I just need to find the ones that don't add any coloration to the audio signal, have low total harmonic distortion with all channels driven and don't slip in the power output with all channels driven.

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post #177 of 6914 Old 10-19-2007, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I know this is the wrong section, but this is my thread so I'll ask anyway: What do you guys recommend as far as a pre-amp and amp? I admit that I have spent much more time researching and listening to speakers than I have anything else. The gear that I previously I had I sold. I am getting a sweet deal from a friend on a pre-amp and amp, but my question concerns the be all, best of the best (within a reasonable price). I know I will have to replace the pre-amp occasionally due to technology changes, but I would like to find an amp with great power, low total harmonic distortion and one that maintains its rated power (or very close) with all channels driven. I don't care if its tube or solid state or whatever...I just want some suggestions to look in to. Also, the pre-amp has to have HDMI switching but also a passthrough option so it doesn't do any video processing, but instead just passes the signal along untouched. I want my TV to do all the processing. I will also add that request in my first post.

Thanks all!

This is a tough question. These are my preferences and from my experience.

1. A tube preamp is what I prefer (especially for bringing body to the MLs).
2. A Solidstate Class A amp is what I prefer for bringing warmth and control to my speakers (once again, especially for the ML's panel and bass foundation).

I'm not very familiar with which tube preamps have HT pass through. I'm not even sure if the top end Cary SLP-05 has one. I think some of the BAT preamps have some. I would also look at ARC's offerings.

For the amp, I love my Plinius amp. Others to keep in mind, Pass, Krell, MLevinson. Non solidstate amps to keep in mind, Cary, BAT.

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post #178 of 6914 Old 10-19-2007, 12:26 PM
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HA! It's funny you linked the Emotiva stuff to me because I will be acquiring the Ultra Theater series stuff for a VERY good price from a real nice guy. They, of course, will tide me over for quite some time. I have yet to search for reviews on the Emotiva stuff, however. How is their power and total harmonic distortion when all the channels are driven?

There are so many amps (and pre-amps) out there, I just need to find the ones that don't add any coloration to the audio signal, have low total harmonic distortion with all channels driven and don't slip in the power output with all channels driven.

B-man.....I thought the search was for a two-channel setup? Or is the use of the Ultra Theater stuff just to hold you over until you get dedicated two-channel gear rather than multi-channel?

I am not an expert by any means on two-channel electronics, but I have been quite impressed with systems that used Bel Canto equipment.

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post #179 of 6914 Old 10-19-2007, 12:56 PM
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B-man.....I thought the search was for a two-channel setup? Or is the use of the Ultra Theater stuff just to hold you over until you get dedicated two-channel gear rather than multi-channel?

I am not an expert by any means on two-channel electronics, but I have been quite impressed with systems that used Bel Canto equipment.

Hi Curtis.

This is from Brandon's first post.

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- This system needs to be used for Home Theater and perform like a champ in 2-channel and multi-channel music listening.


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post #180 of 6914 Old 10-19-2007, 01:03 PM
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HA! It's funny you linked the Emotiva stuff to me because I will be acquiring the Ultra Theater series stuff for a VERY good price from a real nice guy. They, of course, will tide me over for quite some time. I have yet to search for reviews on the Emotiva stuff, however. How is their power and total harmonic distortion when all the channels are driven?

There are so many amps (and pre-amps) out there, I just need to find the ones that don't add any coloration to the audio signal, have low total harmonic distortion with all channels driven and don't slip in the power output with all channels driven.

HA...there is simpatico going on here!

Emotiva will give you what you want, B. HOWEVER....one needs to ensure that there is power in abundance to adequately present the transients and drive the load of the speakers you end up selecting. But you knew that....didn't you?!

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