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post #2521 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I love your theater, by the way. Very cool!

Enh. It's OK.

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post #2522 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

I won't know until the new screen arrives which is AT. It should work fine. I've just been turning off the center channel in order to watch movies temporarily.

I'd be interested in what you think of the AT screen. Which one did you purchase?

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post #2523 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Enh. It's OK.

Yeah, there are much more impressive theaters around these fora, but I don't think you will find many with speakers on the level of a 7.2 Salon2 setup. Though, I have to ask myself why I still use the .2 on the 7.2, since the Salon2s make it almost redundant to have subs.... I guess I get a little extra boom with them.

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post #2524 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

Yeah, there are much more impressive theaters around these fora, but I don't think you will find many with speakers on the level of a 7.2 Salon2 setup. Though, I have to ask myself why I still use the .2 on the 7.2, since the Salon2s make it almost redundant to have subs.... I guess I get a little extra boom with them.

Oh, you can just send me your subs. I'll take care of 'em.

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post #2525 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I'd be interested in what you think of the AT screen. Which one did you purchase?

The Stewart Screen Studiotek 130 X2 Microperf.

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post #2526 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

You can just send me your subs. I'll take care of 'em.

They are very nice subs, I might try and find a third since the preprocessor I am getting will output to three. They are not being made any more though. I might have to get a B15a instead. Basically the same exact sub, but it won't look the same and it would be nice to match them all. Perhaps I should just sell them and put in three Gothams.

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post #2527 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Nothing wrong with .2, Que. Nothing wrong with that at all.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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post #2528 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

They are very nice subs, I might try and find a third since the preprocessor I am getting will output to three. They are not being made any more though. I might have to get a B15a instead. Basically the same exact sub, but it won't look the same and it would be nice to match them all. Perhaps I should just sell them and put in three Gothams.

and cause the whole eastern half the country to have an earthquake in the process!?! You're insane I bet Nuance would be able to feel that in Wisconsin!
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post #2529 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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^ I wish!

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
sounds good. - Dr. Floyd Toole
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post #2530 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 01:59 PM
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Recession? What recession?
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post #2531 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Tim has been quiet today. I hope that's a good thing.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
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post #2532 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 04:50 PM
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Recession? What recession?


My same sentiments, but then I remember we're in AVS world. Where our obsessives prevails over any man made catastrophe, or what ever nature throws at us without batting an eyelash.


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post #2533 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Tim has been quiet today. I hope that's a good thing.

Maybe he has driven himself totally insane and his wife has him in a nice room with white padded walls
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post #2534 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 08:12 PM
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Maybe he has driven himself totally insane and his wife has him in a nice room with white padded walls

Anechoic chamber? That's the best acoustic treatment for testing speakers. Let's hope he comes out with a decision.
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post #2535 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 08:26 PM
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When is this "Journey" going to end?
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post #2536 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 08:31 PM
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When is this "Journey" going to end?

When they pry the remote from his cold dead hand.

HToM

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post #2537 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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LMAO! I can always turn to this place for a few good laughs.

Well, off to bed for me.

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
Dr. Olive's Blog

 

 

No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
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post #2538 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 11:02 PM
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When is this "Journey" going to end?


My god it's full of....speakers!
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post #2539 of 6914 Old 06-20-2008, 11:35 PM
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Hey guys –

Please excuse my absence for the day, I just needed to decompress a bit after yesterday’s all-day auditioning. I simply pushed things too far and got myself into analysis paralysis again. At least this time both speakers sounded so good that I came away appreciating both, rather than having to pick the lesser of two evils. But still, the whole experience was rather laborious because I had to manually change cables every time I wanted to listen to the other set of speakers and the note taking did not allow me to just listen and relax. In addition, by the time I made the cable switch, I was questioning the qualities I thought I heard in each set of speakers.

With that said, at the end of the day yesterday, the Sapphires were the winner. They sounded a bit more natural than the Revels, the instruments within the soundstage were larger, and the bass had more warmth and punch. The Revels had better separation between sounds and better clarity, but the instruments seemed smaller. The Revels also sounded a bit dry in comparison to the Sapphires. I don’t want to give the wrong impression of my experience with the Revels the first day. I would gladly take them over any of the other speakers I have recently owned / auditioned, but the Sapphires edged them out in the areas above.

But wait just a moment, because today all of that changed. Today, the Revels were the clear winner. First, I was able to significantly lower my stress level by rewiring my system to make fast switching possible. I simply ran one set of speakers off of the main L/R outs and the other off of the Zone 2 outs. I keep one muted while I listen to the other, making it just the press of a button to switch between them. Thank God, because that manual switching crap is for the birds. I also took no notes today, I listened to some fresh tracks (I was growing very weary of listening to my compilation audition CDs), and I limited my listening to just a couple of hours. All of these changes made the whole process much more enjoyable and less like a chore.

I don’t know if it was just my reduced stress level, or break-in, but I swear the Revels sounded like much different speakers today. The images were just as focused as yesterday, but they grew in size and the overall soundstage became noticeably more expansive. The mids also sounded noticeably more open than the Sapphires while at the same time sounding more relaxed (less forward than the Sapphires). The bass was tighter, more punchy, and deeper as well.

Some of the qualities that I admired in the Sapphires yesterday also did a flip-flop on me today. The larger image of the instruments within the soundstage almost sounded too diffuse in comparison to the Revels now. I also noticed that when playing anything with a larger number of instruments playing simultaneously, the soundstage became a bit too crowded—like the instruments were overlapping a bit. Not enough to call the sound congested, but the Revels had better separation of instruments. The other issue was with the bass. Yesterday, I liked what sounded like some added warmth / fullness in the mid-to-upper bass. Today, the mid-bass sounded a bit overdone and less defined than the Revels. I was a bit disappointed by the bass of the Revels yesterday, especially considering all of the positive comments made by Rydenfan and others about their superior bass quality. Today, I could not be more satisfied. The bass was tight, tuneful, articulate, punchy, and powerful without sounding overdone.

Overall, the clarity, the instrument separation, the broad soundstage and the tight extended bass of the Revels really brought a smile to my face. In fact, it pretty much covers all of the key areas that I value (in addition to a neutral and transparent midrange). I don’t believe in extended break-in periods for speakers, but it would seem that Revels did need a little time to open-up and fill out. In the past I always expected to hear tonal changes during the break-in period (in addition to the bass filling out), but I think I have been looking in the wrong area this whole time. While I was right about the bass (it has gotten better with break-in on every speaker I’ve owned), the other changes were not tonal at all, but rather an expansion and smoothing of the sound.

Who knows what tomorrow has in store for me.

Oh there was one other issue that came up with the Sapphires today. When I was rockin’ out and pushing them fairly hard, the treble became spitty and borderline aggressive, whereas the Revels remained composed at all levels. This alone could be a deal breaker for me. I like to listen loud at times (don’t we all? ) and because I plan to build an HT system around the speakers I choose, they need to handle the demands of high-volume, explosive action flicks along with the subtleties of music.
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post #2540 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Another chapter in the hifi diary. I hope you'll be able to pick a clear winner soon. I recommend, from this point on out, to listen to one pair of speakers one day (without the other pair in the room), and then swap them the next day (again, without the other pair in the room). This will allow you to position the speakers where they will reside, and it will also prevent any interference of sound from the other pair not being used. At this point, better to play it safe and really cover all the bases, right?

Take your time and have fun. And if you still have trouble deciding, going blind will put the nail in the coffin.

Enjoy - I am outta here! 'Night!

My journey to find the "perfect" speaker
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No matter what measurements tell us, a loudspeaker isn’t good until it
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post #2541 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DulcetTones View Post

Was wondering the same as Queue, both those speakers are so well built; heavy constuction and bracing that I would think they act like small walls to the other speaker.

Tim, I think your right that a good consideration is the home theatre if it does end up both work well for you.
So maybe watch a few films with the wife and see if you can get some constructive comments without scathing looks
Seems woman in general have a good ear and could be worth seeing if you can nudge your wife into listening to some music as well; nature blessed them to pick up on any little changes/inflections in males voices - the perfect lie detector

Cheers
DT

I forgot to mention this, but in a couple of blind tests (one last night and one today) my wife picked the Revels as her favorite both times. Now she can tell when one or the other is playing without me telling her. She feels the mids are too hot on the Sapphires. I don't feel that way, but I can see why she would.
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post #2542 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Another chapter in the hifi diary. I hope you'll be able to pick a clear winner soon. I recommend, from this point on out, to listen to one pair of speakers one day (without the other pair in the room), and then swap them the next day (again, without the other pair in the room). This will allow you to position the speakers where they will reside, and it will also prevent any interference of sound from the other pair not being used. At this point, better to play it safe and really cover all the bases, right?

Take your time and have fun. And if you still have trouble deciding, going blind will put the nail in the coffin.

Enjoy - I am outta here! 'Night!

I have been planning to do just that very thing at some point in the process (listening to each for extended periods) for just those reasons. Though I'm going to have to take a slightly modified approach to your suggestion. Since the right wall will eventually be treated to kill the reflections from the right speaker; instead of putting the speakers exactly where they will go, I'm going to have to pull them off to the left a bit to emulate the reduced reflections of the future room treatment. I also have an 8" tube trap that I can stick next to the right speaker to further reduce the early reflections from that wall.

I know you really feel a blind test would be helpful-- I get that. However, while the two speakers sounded very similar to me initially, I am so familiar with the sound of each speaker now, that I'm sure I could tell them apart in a blind test with little effort. Heck my wife can, and she has only listened to them for an hour total (shes got a good ear, she just doesn't have the vocab to back it up). The two telltale signs are that the Sapphires have more diffuse imaging and a noticeable emphasis/character to the mid-bass. It's not like I'm auditioning amplifiers here where the blind testing approach is meant to uncover possible placebo effect. I think that we all agree that even two neutrally balanced speakers are pretty easy to tell apart. The real issue here is that now that I know how they both sound, which do I like better?

I should also mention that even though I have said that I would like to have speakers that look as good as they sound, I have no bias associated with the appearance of the Revels or the Dyns. The Sapphires are interesting, and the Revels are more conventional in appearance, but I'm not attracted to one more than the other.

Thanks for your continued support and advice.
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post #2543 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 03:13 AM
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Sounds like today was more what a hobby is supposed to be about - having some fun, losing track of time, figuring how best to blow your hard-earned money, etc. Glad that the stress level is down. And I think it is completely cool you have convinced your wife to listen along, even if only a little. Continue to enjoy this. And remember, this is more or less win/win no matter which you choose. Any wow moments that stick out from today? Or was it all good but not spine-tingling?

-Michael
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post #2544 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 03:29 AM
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Sounds like today was more what a hobby is supposed to be about - having some fun, losing track of time, figuring how best to blow your hard-earned money, etc. Glad that the stress level is down. And I think it is completely cool you have convinced your wife to listen along, even if only a little. Continue to enjoy this. And remember, this is more or less win/win no matter which you choose. Any wow moments that stick out from today? Or was it all good but not spine-tingling?

-Michael

Well, I wouldn't call it spine tingling, but while listening to a Fleetwood Mac track, I was totally sucked in by how pristine and realistic it sounded on the Revels. When the song got out of the intro, the size of the soundstage on the Revels took me by surprise. It was wall-to-wall goodness. I really had the system cranked at that point too and it just sounded effortless. I certainly enoyed it very much.

I think you would dig the sound of the Revels. They are a clear step up in every category over the MA GS's (still one of my favorite speakers BTW), but similar in character.
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post #2545 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I don't know if it was just my reduced stress level, or break-in, but I swear the Revels sounded like much different speakers today. The images were just as focused as yesterday, but they grew in size and the overall soundstage became noticeably more expansive. The mids also sounded noticeably more open than the Sapphires while at the same time sounding more relaxed (less forward than the Sapphires). The bass was tighter, more punchy, and deeper as well.

Some of the qualities that I admired in the Sapphires yesterday also did a flip-flop on me today. The larger image of the instruments within the soundstage almost sounded too diffuse in comparison to the Revels now. I also noticed that when playing anything with a larger number of instruments playing simultaneously, the soundstage became a bit too crowdedlike the instruments were overlapping a bit. Not enough to call the sound congested, but the Revels had better separation of instruments. The other issue was with the bass. Yesterday, I liked what sounded like some added warmth / fullness in the mid-to-upper bass. Today, the mid-bass sounded a bit overdone and less defined than the Revels. I was a bit disappointed by the bass of the Revels yesterday, especially considering all of the positive comments made by Rydenfan and others about their superior bass quality. Today, I could not be more satisfied. The bass was tight, tuneful, articulate, punchy, and powerful without sounding overdone.

Overall, the clarity, the instrument separation, the broad soundstage and the tight extended bass of the Revels really brought a smile to my face. In fact, it pretty much covers all of the key areas that I value (in addition to a neutral and transparent midrange). I don't believe in extended break-in periods for speakers, but it would seem that Revels did need a little time to open-up and fill out. In the past I always expected to hear tonal changes during the break-in period (in addition to the bass filling out), but I think I have been looking in the wrong area this whole time. While I was right about the bass (it has gotten better with break-in on every speaker I've owned), the other changes were not tonal at all, but rather an expansion and smoothing of the sound.

Tim, now we are getting somewhere If you look through my notes you will seem very similar findings. I found myself able to hear deeper into the music with the Revels and found that on tracks with a lot of sound and instruments the Sapphires sounded ever so slightly congested in comparison to the transparency of the Revels. I truly believe you were so consumed with all the constant thoughts and work of switching the speakers that you were not able to focus on the music. The best thing to do is just start to spend an extended amount of time with each speaker. Allow yourself to just close your eyes, put all other thoughts out of your head, and just hear the music.

As you and I have talked about privately as well, it is very important to stay grounded in your thinking. During my audition the Sapphires were preferable to the Revels on a certain classical track that I listened to; however, the Revels were my favorite on things like Pink Floyd, Corrine Bailey Rae, Radiohead, etc. I had to remind myself that I barely, if ever, listen to classical music so that should not truly be a factor in my decision process. It is very important that you stop listening to your "audiophile" recordings and begin listening to the music you will listen to on a daily basis, that is what matters. Also, because this system is for HT as well make sure to take something like Die Hard that has some major explosive (high SPL) scenes and listen to each speaker in that context as well.

Best of luck buddy
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post #2546 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 05:24 AM
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The centered acoustic guitar on the "Wish You Were Here" track of the same titled album sounds more real on the Salon2s than it has on any other speakers I have heard it on in my setup... With the right amount of EQ as well of course to compensate for room modes. If areas of the bass are too elevated the lower notes of acoustic guitar sound awful, like they are being played through a bad mic or being mixed by someone with no talent.

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post #2547 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 05:31 AM
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Of course, on a lower quality album, it could be bad mixing and/or a bad mic...

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
-- Saint Jerome (374 AD - 419 AD)

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post #2548 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 07:33 AM
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Que, you should check out out the drums on "Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2" on the Revels. Amazing stuff!
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post #2549 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Que, you should check out out the drums on "Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2" on the Revels. Amazing stuff!

Good stuff. My favorite version of the album is the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab version taken from the original analog tapes; it has the most realistic dynamics of any version I have heard including the Doug Sax version.

I also love the drums on The David Brubeck Quartet's Take Five on the Time Out album. Then there are the percussion instruments at the beginning of Time on Dark Side of the Moon (Bongos or Congas?), where you can hear the drum itself as well as the echo of the drum hits off the recording studio walls. The list goes on forever...

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
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post #2550 of 6914 Old 06-21-2008, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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This might sound like a really odd or out of place request, but I will ask nonetheless.

Does anyone who works in the industry have any job openings? I feel that I am going no where at the company I'm with and I'd like to get out of IT and into Audio/Video. If anyone out there is looking for employees, please contact me via PM. I am a very dedicated and hard worker. I'd really love to make my hobby and passion my career!

Thanks all, and sorry for the odd post.

Okay, back on track...

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