6.5" woofers just can't rock - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 404 Old 03-03-2008, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

I would be very interested to see any measurements on the "more dynamic" aspect of high efficiency speakers. I've heard this claim and suspect it is more a problem of people running out of amplifier power before the peaks in their music are hit than it is from something inherent to the driver itself.

A reasonable basis for this is that if you wire four drivers in series-parallel, you will have the same impedance, but efficiency will increase by +6db. I wouldn't expect anything about the drivers to have changed in creating this "high efficiency" system. It will probably sound equally "dynamic" to a single driver running at 4x the power. However, if the newly formed "dynamic" system allows you to hit the musical peaks without running out of amplifier, then it will truly sound different (but that is because the music had compression distortion in the first case).

I've had some big power amps (Bryston 7B ST mono blocks (500w/8ohms/800w/4ohms)) on B&W Matrix 801 sII (87db/w/m) and while they were pretty dynamic (very, very good actually), they were not quite as good as my little 5watt amp on 115db/w/m horns. I was quite shocked to see how much output I was getting with a VMPS sub (92 db/w/m) before I could clip my crown XLS 402D amp.... 600watts total on peaks. Basically, I don't think most 200w/ch power amps are near clipping in home situations, with most speakers. None the less I've found that bigger amps always sound a bit better, even if they're not being pushed hard.

I think the advantage with wiring up multiple drivers is that voice coil heat is spread over multiple drivers... just speculation!
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post #392 of 404 Old 03-05-2008, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Klipsch KLF-30's added to the OP. Forgot all about them. They are discontinued, so that's my excuse. :-)

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post #393 of 404 Old 03-05-2008, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by WolfsBane View Post

I have my system configured and calibrated for music in a 2.1 configuration with the newer PB12 NSD as the low end driver. The sub does an excellent job of adding low end extension and impact to complement the mains without muddling the sound, and without getting in their way. Location and proper calibration to integrate with the mains is the key, however. There are certainly better subs out there for music, but you are going to pay significantly more than what you would for the PB12-NSD, specially if you also want it to serve double duty for HT applications. Mine are crossed, (and I have little choice in this because it is set by the AVR), at a point where the mains and the sub have to be matted well between around 40hz and 96hz, with the mains being the main drivers and the sub simply adding it's own contribution at the lower range. The result is very pleasing to my ear.



That is cool you are happy with the sub. I know many people are. I played with it in 3 different houses/appartments and in many different rooms configurations. For me my results were negative for music, no matter what the configuration. I agree that if I want a sub to serve both duties that is a tough task, and I realize I'll probably have to spend a fair deal more. Iam curious as to how the mfw 15s perform as they seem to have gotten high scores for music. I think I will have to solve my reproduction of upper bass and lower midbass before I look at subs again though. I'm still searching for something similar to JBL's array series but cant seem to find anything.
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post #394 of 404 Old 05-11-2008, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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i haven't been looking at speakers in a while, but recently i came across this one:

JBL Application Engineered Series Model 6215/95
http://www.jblpro.com/ae/am6215_95.html
http://www.jblpro.com/ae/pdf/spec_shts/AM6215_95.pdf

it uses the jbl 2226 woofer and has a nice directivity pattern on the waveguide.

there are similar looking versions that have lesser woofers that cost less money, but the 2226 is the real deal.

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post #395 of 404 Old 05-11-2008, 11:05 AM
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Earl Geddes is releasing his Summa as a kit: http://www.ai-audio.com./products_esp12.html

I would choose that over the JBLs, assuming a person had the skills to complete it.

~Brandon


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post #396 of 404 Old 05-11-2008, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

I got a kick out of the KRKs Peter.

PMC OB1's? Peak SPL of 110dB. Hhmm... they look like nice speakers, but they are going to struggle just to meet THX SPLs and fall about 18dB short of a single Kilomax 15".

Never too loud!

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post #397 of 404 Old 05-11-2008, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Earl Geddes is releasing his Summa as a kit: http://www.ai-audio.com./products_esp12.html

I would choose that over the JBLs, assuming a person had the skills to complete it.

thanks for the heads-up.

i thought his kit was based on the 10 inch driver. in any case, it seems that he is going to be using a relatively high roll off point, which defeats most of the advantage for bass response. even the 12 inch driver is down 6db at 80hz and that is just too high for my purposes.

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post #398 of 404 Old 05-12-2008, 04:32 AM
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It will be all sizes with the first being the 10" version is my understanding.

As far as bass response, he does designs expecting the mains to be crossed to a sub. So his enclosures are sealed, although a person could amke it a ported if they want I suppose.

~Brandon


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post #399 of 404 Old 05-13-2008, 07:14 AM
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Here's my two pennies:

I have a pair of KEF iQ9s. Three 6.5" drivers, front ported, and full of great bass. The kind of bass that in my subjective opinion, doesn't require a sub. I say this because I know that they shake the people below my apartment and cause them to lose wine glasses and ruin their carpets.
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post #400 of 404 Old 05-13-2008, 10:56 AM
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You'd be doing your self a favor by checking out the PMC OB1's that were mentioned earlier. Their new I-series sounds fantastic (im"H"o, blah blah). From what I've heard from everyone else who's had a chance to really spend time with them is utterly spoiled by them - even other speaker designers love the PMC's they've got.. You'll never ever hear about them though, except by word of mouth.

Also, with most of the PMC's you really won't need a sub.

PMC USA Territory Representative - Here to offer advice based on my experience & taste.
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post #401 of 404 Old 05-16-2008, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mvwhiting_83 View Post

You'd be doing your self a favor by checking out the PMC OB1's that were mentioned earlier.

Thanks for the info mv. The OB1 won't suffice.

After modelling countless woofers, I have come to understand why pro-audio subwoofers are what I am looking for. I am now leaning toward re-enforcing the bass with something like the JBL Synthesis S1S-EX.

It uses the JBL 2242H woofer--the same as used in their theater subwoofers...not home theater mind you, but commercial cinema.

The OB1 woofer will be lucky to hit 102dB at 50hz, while the 2242H will be cruising comfortably up around 118dB and will peak up near 130dB. That level of SPL will blow the OB1 into dust.

Everybody doesn't need real power for their home system that is true. For the people who seek it though, these little home systems just aren't the answer. Check out JBL Synthesis line. Start at the bottom and work your way up the line. When you get to the top, you will find that it is stacked with gear that could be substituted for pro-audio gear. At the highest level, the lines blur.

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post #402 of 404 Old 05-16-2008, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofo21 View Post

Here's my two pennies:

I have a pair of KEF iQ9s. Three 6.5" drivers, front ported, and full of great bass. The kind of bass that in my subjective opinion, doesn't require a sub. I say this because I know that they shake the people below my apartment and cause them to lose wine glasses and ruin their carpets.

Thanks tofo. What level of SPL can the KEF deliver at 50hz?

I fail to see any measurements on their website. Their website appears to be all marketing and no engineering.

The "bass" to which you are referring is probably the bloated peak at 100hz. That's not bass. Then again, Wilson tries to fake people into thinking that the WATT/PUPPY has great bass by doing the same thing.

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post #403 of 404 Old 03-26-2009, 10:12 AM
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Had to resurrect an old thread because it was mentioned in another thread.

I was at a party last weekend, they had a DJ there. He had what I guess I would call a modest set-up. A pair of Yamaha PA speakers with 10" or 12" woofers and a mixer/amp. He said it was 200wpc. That system was able to throw sound that literally slammed you in the chest with rock concert like bass. It wasn't exceedingly deep, but just slamming. Kinda got me thinking, that would be a great garage system.

I'm gonna have to take a peek at a StillWater or Musician's Friend catalog. Should be able to get something like that for $800 or $900.
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post #404 of 404 Old 03-26-2009, 12:39 PM
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"That system was able to throw sound that literally slammed you in the chest with rock concert like bass. It wasn't exceedingly deep, but just slamming. "

Yep, the kind of bass Hi-fi systems designers eq out in order to make the "speakers disapear"..

Go for it..! I have a set of mackie PA speakers with 10" woofers just for when friends come to my apt to have drinks beer, rum and have fun.. I have my HT and stereo system just for drinking scotch and relax in my couch.. 2 completely different sounds..

Seize the Day..!
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