Grado vs AKG vs BeyerDynamics vs Sennheiser - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 71 Old 11-12-2007, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Actually lower impedances are harder to drive because they "need" much more current, and current is what's tough to design for. That's why the amps that go to low impedances are generally more expensive, and larger than those that can only do high impedances. That's also why distortion usually increases when impedance drops. Why don't HTIBs support 2-Ohm loads.

The only thing that's "easier" with low impedances, is going loud, but that assumes you have an amp up to the challenge.

Just because it's low impedance doesn't need it means more power. That varies greatly between each headphone...just because headphone has a low or high impedance doesn't mean it'll be easy or hard to drive. I think you're assuming that a lower impedance headphone is harder to drive...which more often than not is not the case. My mp3 player has a much easier time powering my SR-80s than my DT990s

Low impedance setups aren't as "stable" as I like to say...but like you said it's easier to go loud with a lower impedance setup.

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Yeah, you'll run into saturation/clipping at lower levels with a higher impedance headphone, yes, but they should also be easier to drive (require less current).

I don't understand why you think they'll be easier to drive.

But the first part is the main problem....I was able to listen to my DT990s w/o an amp, but I never turned up loud enough for anyone to hear any audible leakage...

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I don't really believe it will make a difference, but being electro-mechanical devices, I can see that their properties could change as the materials are used.

Well the crazy part is if you take a frequency response of the headphone before and after break in...they'll be completely identical.

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I'm more inclined to believe it's the brain that changes, rather than the actual sound.

I dunno...I wonder that too. I'm tempted to test the theory by getting another pair of DT990s and blind testing them.

With the DT990s, the bass deepened a hell of a lot. The treble became less bright and much more smooth as well. I listen to the same 2 albums pretty much everyday so I'm quite used to what they should sound like(Dark Tranquility - Fiction and Lamb of God - Ashes of the Wake). To braek them in, I had them playing 24 hours a day for a whole week.

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Except that with Paypal, your CC isn't actually paying for the product, it's paying for the service of Paypal paying the other party. So unless Paypal fails to pay the other party the CC company isn't going to do much. But beside that, it has more to do with I don't like buying used stuff, and unless you're buying used, there just aren't very good deals on ebay, heck, even if you are buying used, the deals aren't that great.

That's not quite true. I was an eBay power seller so I've dealt with many many people. Doing a chargeback through your CC company forces Paypal to work with them. Paypal cannot simply say "they paid for a service". Paypal is basically a gateway, the only way you pay for the service is the receiver of the money pays a small fee. eGold works like you described, not Paypal. If you don't get your item as described through Paypal, you can get your money back easily. Paypal sides with the buyers before they side with the seller...I know from personal experience...someone pays with their relatives CC, they do a chargeback, I'm screwed.

Also, the DT990s were new...Ebay is a scary place, but there are good sellers. Either way there are other good places to get headphones. Amazon often has a decent price as it is


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post #62 of 71 Old 11-12-2007, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwish238 View Post

Just because it's low impedance doesn't need it means more power. That varies greatly between each headphone...just because headphone has a low or high impedance doesn't mean it'll be easy or hard to drive. I think you're assuming that a lower impedance headphone is harder to drive...which more often than not is not the case. My mp3 player has a much easier time powering my SR-80s than my DT990s

No, I'm saying electric-design wise, it's easier to drive a high impedance than a low impedance. Hence an "amp" that can drive 32-Ohm Grados should have no problem driving 250-Ohm Beyers.

Now, if that "amp" has enough voltage headroom to achieve the same SPL with the 250-Ohm Beyers as the 32-Ohm Grados is another issue. I think I figured you need about 3x the voltage to hit the same power at 250 Ohm vs 32 Ohm.

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Low impedance setups aren't as "stable" as I like to say...but like you said it's easier to go loud with a lower impedance setup.

Maybe I should rephrase that, it's easier to "suck" more power with low impedances than high ones. So yeah, all else equal, and with an amp capable of low impedances you'll get more SPL with lower impedance.

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I don't understand why you think they'll be easier to drive.

Electrically easier, see above. It's like with speakers, most any home amp (be it HTIB, or high end separate) is more than happy to drive an 8-Ohm speaker. Throw on a speaker that drops to 1 or 2 Ohms in places, and the HTIB amp with throw a fit because 1 Ohm is a "tougher" load than 8-Ohms.

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But the first part is the main problem....I was able to listen to my DT990s w/o an amp, but I never turned up loud enough for anyone to hear any audible leakage...

I think we may be thinking the same thing. When I hear people say can X needs an amp to sound right, that 250-Ohm cans are "more difficult" to drive, I think of speakers, like 4-Ohm maggies are more difficult to drive than 8-Ohm Klipsch's (I know there's more to it that just impedance), rather than the reality, which is "If you like to listen loud, you may need an amp to get these that loud".

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post #63 of 71 Old 11-13-2007, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm just learning about some basics of electrical design so that's probably why I don't fully understand why it's easier to drive higher impedance speakers than lower impedance ones. When I say drive, I think of volume...but that doesn't seem to be what you mean by drive. Sensitivity perhaps?


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post #64 of 71 Old 11-14-2007, 05:43 PM
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I know that the equipment I will be talking about is not in the same league of the stuff you guys talk about, but there seem to be some fairly knowledgeable folks here.

Maybe you can help me?

I have a pair of Koss KSC-75's and then a pair of Sennheiser HD201's that I listen to to spare the rest of my family.

I use the Senny's primarily for listening to CD's for review. I am QUITE pleased with the overall balance and sound, but was wondering since I MAINLY listen from a Sony PSYC portable CD, if I could get noticeably fuller sound and better bass if I bought something like a Headstage Lyrix or a
PA2V2? These are far cheaper amps that do get some pretty good reviews.

Any help is appreciated.

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post #65 of 71 Old 11-14-2007, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DtroitPunk View Post

I know that the equipment I will be talking about is not in the same league of the stuff you guys talk about, but there seem to be some fairly knowledgeable folks here.

Maybe you can help me?

I have a pair of Koss KSC-75's and then a pair of Sennheiser HD201's that I listen to to spare the rest of my family.

I use the Senny's primarily for listening to CD's for review. I am QUITE pleased with the overall balance and sound, but was wondering since I MAINLY listen from a Sony PSYC portable CD, if I could get noticeably fuller sound and better bass if I bought something like a Headstage Lyrix or a
PA2V2? These are far cheaper amps that do get some pretty good reviews.

Any help is appreciated.

I haven't listened to the Lyrix, but the pa2v2 is extremely overrated. I found it to be a muddy sounding and uninviting amp. For about $135 you can't go wrong with a mini3 from misterX or rockhopper. For a little less the C&C Box+ is a very good amp and the v2 isn't bad and can be had used for around $65
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post #66 of 71 Old 11-15-2007, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DtroitPunk View Post

I know that the equipment I will be talking about is not in the same league of the stuff you guys talk about, but there seem to be some fairly knowledgeable folks here.

Maybe you can help me?

I have a pair of Koss KSC-75's and then a pair of Sennheiser HD201's that I listen to to spare the rest of my family.

I use the Senny's primarily for listening to CD's for review. I am QUITE pleased with the overall balance and sound, but was wondering since I MAINLY listen from a Sony PSYC portable CD, if I could get noticeably fuller sound and better bass if I bought something like a Headstage Lyrix or a
PA2V2? These are far cheaper amps that do get some pretty good reviews.

Any help is appreciated.

You'ld be much better off buying a nicer pair of headphones. $50 headphones don't need a $100 amp.


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post #67 of 71 Old 11-15-2007, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwish238 View Post

I'm just learning about some basics of electrical design so that's probably why I don't fully understand why it's easier to drive higher impedance speakers than lower impedance ones. When I say drive, I think of volume...but that doesn't seem to be what you mean by drive. Sensitivity perhaps?

I was meaning to get back to this. Basically at the levels we're talking about voltage is incredibly easy to deal with. Just select a supply voltage higher than your maximum output voltage you're good to go.

What gets tricky is designing for high current/low impedance. In a nutshell, the higher the current the bigger, more expensive, more complicated the design needs to be. Take power amplifiers, there are no devices that can handle the high current that low impedance speakers demand, so the amplifier design needs to use multiple devices in parallel to "split up" the work. Keeping the entire design stable with multiple parallel devices gets quite tricky (they tend to try and feed into each other as no two devices are exactly identical). Of course there are other considerations, like you need to make sure the power supply can supply enough power to the output devices, and so on.

Basically, more current, more power is more expensive to design/build.

Of course what makes the headphone amp thing even more odd in my mind*, is that at the voltages, currents and powers we're talking about to dry cans (couple volts, milliampers, milliwatts) it's absolutely trivial to design a circuit to handle that. Run of the mill opamps can drive most headphones without any special considerations.

*except high impedance headphones that need (apparently) more than 1V to reach satisfying volumes.

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post #68 of 71 Old 11-18-2007, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Deathwish238 View Post

You'ld be much better off buying a nicer pair of headphones. $50 headphones don't need a $100 amp.

Have you read any reviews of the HD201 or actually listened to them? I need sealed cans, and I doubt that I can get any for $50 that sound any better.

I may not even need an amp, I was just wondering if they would make a NOTICEABLE difference for my intended uses.

BTW there are MANY $50+ headphones that dont sound as good as my Koss OR Sennys.

I go for Bang for Buck.

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post #69 of 71 Old 11-18-2007, 07:46 PM
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you might want to look for a used pair of AKG k81dj's I think they're slightly better than HD201's and a lot nicer for portable use. You can get a pair at or close to your $50 mark
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post #70 of 71 Old 11-19-2007, 04:53 PM
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you might want to look for a used pair of AKG k81dj's I think they're slightly better than HD201's and a lot nicer for portable use. You can get a pair at or close to your $50 mark

Thanks, these DO get some solid reviews, but I can buy the Sennheiser HD 201's for 19.99 with free shipping.

I PERSONALLY am not going to pay around $60 for a pair of headphones that is not a BIG improvement in sound or comfort.

Just my 2 cents.

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post #71 of 71 Old 11-19-2007, 05:26 PM
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I would say they are slightly less comfortable, but quite a bit better SQ wise. Sorry for not making myself clear in my first post. So overall I would say they are slightly better when you factor in comfort. Some people have issues with clamping, I found them to be fairly comfortable but I have a small head. Ultimately only you can decide if they are a worthy upgrade or not.
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