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post #3031 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 07:34 PM
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Looks great. Need to get my Plats posted on here. Haven't done that I don't think.

McIntosh MX151 Owner's Thread

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post #3032 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Well, Paul, as you can tell by my signature, I have a lot of respect for you as well. In fact, you have had as much influence on my systems over the years as anyone. It was your guidance that finally convinced me to go with an AT screen, which was probably the biggest step I have taken in my HT.

Thanks for all your help with the selection of equipment in my current system. If you're ever in Lancaster, PA, please stop by and I would love to show off the system for you.

Craig

Hey, if I'm ever within a few hundred miles of Lancaster, I'll be there. No need for directions...I'll just listen for the explosions...

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post #3033 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Looks great. Need to get my Plats posted on here. Haven't done that I don't think.

I'd love to see pics, Tony. And we've missed you around here, bro.

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post #3034 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

I'd love to see pics, Tony. And we've missed you around here, bro.

Thanks Paul. Just been lurking lately.

McIntosh MX151 Owner's Thread

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post #3035 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 08:09 PM
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Wow! Just amazing Craig. DMark's stands are perfect as well. That is one enviable system you've got there. SOTA from soup to nuts!

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post #3036 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

Wow! Just amazing Craig. DMark's stands are perfect as well. That is one enviable system you've got there. SOTA from soup to nuts!

Chris

Thanks Chris!

I need to get you and MikeDuke down here for a listen. With you owning my "other" favorite speaker, the Seaton Catalysts, I will be most interested in your thoughts. I will PM you guys soon to set this up.

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post #3037 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 08:25 PM
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Craig, thanks for posting the speaker porn

I am definitely interested in learning more about the tweeters in those mains.
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post #3038 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Craig, thanks for posting the speaker porn

That IS some speaker pr0n, ain't it??

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post #3039 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 08:40 PM
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Listening impressions..

My first thought after running Audyssey XT32 and then switching on Audyssey DSX Wides was that the size of my acoustic space had quadrupled in volume. The Plat's sound big.. no HUGE.. all by themselves. But the addition of the wides, (which, by design, are intended to mimic the reflections at 60 degrees found in many highly regarded theaters and auditoriums), made the walls move back and the space expand. Everything just got bigger.

My next thought was that I was immersed in a "new" sonic hologram. Let me explain...

Years ago, I had the experience of listening to a pair of Wilson Watt Puppy II's. They threw up a sonic hologram in front of the listener that was truly uncanny. The sound bore nor relationship to the speakers whatsoever. It was just in a space in front of the listener, which each individual instrument and voice in it's own space, with some in front, some behind, some left, some right, but each independent of each other... and of the speakers.. It was very 3-dimensional and believable... more so than any other sonic experience I've had.. before or since. It was like the visual hologram in I, Robot where Dr. Cromwell is "projected" in front of Will Smith and says: "My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions." That was a visual hologram. This was a sonic hologram.

However, that sonic hologram, as cool as it was, was only "in front of the listener." This new sonic hologram with the Plat's, Silver Monitors and Audyssey DSX Wides was not just "in front of the listener"; the listener, (me), was now in the middle of... a PART of.. the hologram. This was a new and unique experience for me.

I watched King Kong on BluRay. There are any number of scenes I could mention, but the one that comes to mind is the scene where they find the footprint, just before the brontosaurus stampede. The scene starts with the group walking through the forest. There are sounds of bugs flying around, (big bugs ), they are close and they are far away. There are the ambient sounds of the forest; birds in the trees, the sounds of leaves rustling, the footsteps of the men, etc. At one point, one of the men starts shooting at the bugs. When I have watched this scene in the past, I could hear all these sounds, but they could often be localized to one speaker or the other. IOW, the sound seemed to be coming from the speakers... not holographic.

With the new system, these sounds now become one giant soundstage that the listener is immersed in the middle of. The sounds are no longer "attached" to the speakers... they just exist in this huge 3-dimensional soundscape. The sounds of the forest are larger, deeper and more believable than ever before.

Editorial Disclaimer: I am well aware that my comments above are totally subjective and are not in any way scientific; nor do they employ any objective, measurable or quantifiable differences. I would love to be able to provide the reader with measurements and easily quantifiable data to support my listening impressions. However, I have neither the equipment, not the expertise to use it, to provide the reader with factual data to support what I hear.

It is difficult to assign the credit for these huge improvements in my system to any one upgrade. I know for sure that the Plat's are the best speakers I have ever owned. I knew that before I did the Silver Monitor Wides. I also know that the Silver Monitors are an excellent timbre-match for the Plat's, and I'm sure that plays a huge role in the immersiveness of this system.

However, I can't fail to give credit to the Audyssey DSX Wide processing. This system in my Integra 80.2 is, without doubt a huge part of the ability of my system to "pull this off." In addition, I suspect that Audyssey XT32 is responsible for enhancing the timbre-match and integrating the system to the "whole."

I was asked to list the rest of my gear:

Sources:
Oppo BDP 83
SA 8300 HD CATV

Audio:
Integra 80.2
Earthquake Sound Cinenova Grande 5, (driving the Plat LCR's, CC and rear surrounds)
Emotiva XPA-5 (driving the Silver Monitor Wides and Sides)

Video:
BenQ W10000, (next component to be upgraded)
SeymourAV 120" Diagonal, electric drop-down screen, (XD screen material)
Panamorph UPH480 Anamorphic lens

Tactile Motion:
Crowson Tactile Transducer
Buttkicker BKA 1000 amp

Craig

PS. More specific listening impressions to follow.

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #3040 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 11:05 PM
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Craig:

Your speakers look great on the new custom stands, I am very pleased with how they turned out. I can't wait to hear them with the new Wides!

Just some notes and pictures about the stands for anyone interested. The textured finish was sprayed on in my shop spray booth, and is 2 coats of Triad waterborne white primer, sanded, and top-coated with Triad's matte black waterborne paint. Then, I went back and sprayed the second coat of paint in a "spatter", or "fly-speck" pattern, which gave it that Triad "factory finished" look.

The pictures show the speakers at various stages during the build, and some show the 1.5" thick, double-walled construction. Craig forgot to mention that the double layers of the columns also have a layer of Green Glue between them for additional acoustic damping.

The center channel took the two of us, or a hand truck to move it, it is so heavy! I was worried whether the stands would be stable enough not to rock or wobble on the carpet. Turns out, they are ROCK SOLID, even without spikes!








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post #3041 of 6380 Old 06-07-2011, 11:16 PM
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...And here are the finished speaker stand pictures in Craig's room after we installed them. Please excuse the dust in some of the closeup pictures, we were too excited to wipe them down before snapping pictures!










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post #3042 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Craig, thanks for posting the speaker porn

I am definitely interested in learning more about the tweeters in those mains.

Here is what I can tell you:

They are a soft dome, (fabric), tweeter that is inherently high sensitivity by design. That tweeter is then mounted in a "dispersion lens" that focuses the sound and increases sensitivity even more. More importantly, the dispersion lens controls the directivity of the sound to improve the polar response of the speaker.

However, the dispersion lens is not a classic horn. It is more of a "stepped" horn, with gradations of the mouth of the horn. (I will try later today to take a close up pic showing the detail of the lens.) Hopefully Paul can expound on the design of the dispersion lens. All I can say is that these tweeters make music sound "real."

Craig

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post #3043 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 04:08 AM
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Dennis, (DMark1),

Thanks for posting the additional pics. Your camera is definitely better than mine. I need to get you back over the HEAR the finished result.

Craig

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post #3044 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 05:18 AM
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Congratulations on a project well done. I haven't had Platinum LCRs in my system for around eight years, but I share your observations. Another thing I noticed is the speakers had such ridiculous headroom that they always sounded relaxed...even bored...with reproducing complex passages at high levels. The sense of dynamics in a home theater is pretty much unlimited, and sound floats out of them; never sounding "squeezed" or strained.

The dispersion control lens helps limit vertical dispersion, and reduces unwanted reflections off the floor and ceiling. In addition, the lower the tweeter goes in response, the greater the gain from the horn. This increases output and power handling. It also adds to the relaxed, unstrained nature of the treble at high output levels.

Most of the credit for the Platinum LCR and Platinum Center goes to Triad's long-time director of engineering, David Nelson. He fully understands you need the best drivers, a solid enclosure, and a proper crossover, but he also knows how important sensitivity, flat frequency response, and power handling are.

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post #3045 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 05:32 AM
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Craig, I think the only thing I can say is holy crap that must be amazing. Those stands look outstanding also so way to go Dennis. I can't wait to check out your system again. As soon as I get mine %100 as well. But again, great update .

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post #3046 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 05:47 AM
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Paul,

Check out the little dot in this image at 11:00 from the grill mounting hole. Can you tell me what that is? Is it some kind of clip indicator? As you know, I bought these speakers used, so I didn't get a manual. (Is the manual available as a .pdf file?)

Regarding your comments about these speakers sounding relaxed/bored, I completely agree. In fact the term I had used was "effortless." They just sound like they're loafing along even at very loud levels. Of course, driving them with 300+ wpc helps. With 94.5 dB sensitivity, and that much power, the amps never get strained or go into clipping either. Still, I was surprised how warm my amps run with theses speakers. I guess it's the low impedance that draws the current.

Craig

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post #3047 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Craig, I think the only thing I can say is holy crap that must be amazing. Those stands look outstanding also so way to go Dennis. I can't wait to check out your system again. As soon as I get mine %100 as well. But again, great update .

Thanks Mike!

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post #3048 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 06:04 AM
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Craig and Paul,

Thanks for more information on the tweeter design for the Platinums. It is the first time I have really looked into the dispersion control lens. Very interesting design and it seems like Triad really does not cut any corners when it comes to parts and build quality.
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post #3049 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Very interesting design and it seems like Triad really does not cut any corners when it comes to parts and build quality.

The Plat's are built like tanks, with massive internal bracing and extremely precise CNC cuts and fitting. They weigh about 130#. Even the Silver Monitors are massively overbuilt. There is a great video on the Triad website that shows the build process.
http://www.triadspeakers.com/abouttr...ctorytour.html

Craig

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post #3050 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Listening impressions..

My first thought after running Audyssey XT32 and then switching on Audyssey DSX Wides was that the size of my acoustic space had quadrupled in volume. The Plat's sound big.. no HUGE.. all by themselves. But the addition of the wides, (which, by design, are intended to mimic the reflections at 60 degrees found in many highly regarded theaters and auditoriums), made the walls move back and the space expand. Everything just got bigger.

My next thought was that I was immersed in a "new" sonic hologram. Let me explain...

Years ago, I had the experience of listening to a pair of Wilson Watt Puppy II's. They threw up a sonic hologram in front of the listener that was truly uncanny. The sound bore nor relationship to the speakers whatsoever. It was just in a space in front of the listener, which each individual instrument and voice in it's own space, with some in front, some behind, some left, some right, but each independent of each other... and of the speakers.. It was very 3-dimensional and believable... more so than any other sonic experience I've had.. before or since. It was like the visual hologram in I, Robot where Dr. Cromwell is "projected" in front of Will Smith and says: "My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions." That was a visual hologram. This was a sonic hologram.

However, that sonic hologram, as cool as it was, was only "in front of the listener." This new sonic hologram with the Plat's, Silver Monitors and Audyssey DSX Wides was not just "in front of the listener"; the listener, (me), was now in the middle of... a PART of.. the hologram. This was a new and unique experience for me.

I watched King Kong on BluRay. There are any number of scenes I could mention, but the one that comes to mind is the scene where they find the footprint, just before the brontosaurus stampede. The scene starts with the group walking through the forest. There are sounds of bugs flying around, (big bugs ), they are close and they are far away. There are the ambient sounds of the forest; birds in the trees, the sounds of leaves rustling, the footsteps of the men, etc. At one point, one of the men starts shooting at the bugs. When I have watched this scene in the past, I could hear all these sounds, but they could often be localized to one speaker or the other. IOW, the sound seemed to be coming from the speakers... not holographic.

With the new system, these sounds now become one giant soundstage that the listener is immersed in the middle of. The sounds are no longer "attached" to the speakers... they just exist in this huge 3-dimensional soundscape. The sounds of the forest are larger, deeper and more believable than ever before.

Editorial Disclaimer: I am well aware that my comments above are totally subjective and are not in any way scientific; nor do they employ any objective, measurable or quantifiable differences. I would love to be able to provide the reader with measurements and easily quantifiable data to support my listening impressions. However, I have neither the equipment, not the expertise to use it, to provide the reader with factual data to support what I hear.

It is difficult to assign the credit for these huge improvements in my system to any one upgrade. I know for sure that the Plat's are the best speakers I have ever owned. I knew that before I did the Silver Monitor Wides. I also know that the Silver Monitors are an excellent timbre-match for the Plat's, and I'm sure that plays a huge role in the immersiveness of this system.

However, I can't fail to give credit to the Audyssey DSX Wide processing. This system in my Integra 80.2 is, without doubt a huge part of the ability of my system to "pull this off." In addition, I suspect that Audyssey XT32 is responsible for enhancing the timbre-match and integrating the system to the "whole."

I was asked to list the rest of my gear:

Sources:
Onkyo BDP 83
SA 8300 HD CATV

Audio:
Integra 80.2
Earthquake Sound Cinenova Grande 5, (driving the Plat LCR's, CC and rear surrounds)
Emotiva XPA-5 (driving the Silver Monitor Wides and Sides)

Video:
BenQ W10000, (next component to be upgraded)
SeymourAV 120" Diagonal, electric drop-down screen, (XD screen material)
Panamorph UPH480 Anamorphic lens

Tactile Motion:
Crowson Tactile Transducer
Buttkicker BKA 1000 amp

Craig

PS. More specific listening impressions to follow.

Thanks for the info. Making ^^^^me really interested in stepping up to wides or maybe heights? What made you go with wides compared to heights?

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post #3051 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

Thanks for the info. Making ^^^^me really interested in stepping up to wides or maybe heights? What made you go with wides compared to heights?

Chris Kyriakakis has stated that the wides will have a bigger impact than the heights. My Integra DHC-80.2 will only do wides OR heights, not both at the same time. I elected to go with wides based on Chris' statement, as well as the relative ease of installing wides vs. heights in my room.

From the Audyssey website:

Quote:


Wides before Heights

One key finding from the research is that first side wall reflections play a great role in determining subjective impression. The most important direction of reflected sound was found to be ±60° relative to the front. Audyssey DSX provides a pair of Wide channels (LW and RW) at ±60° with appropriate frequency response and perceptual processing to match these requirements of human hearing. These Wide channels are much more critical in the presentation of a realistic soundstage than the Back Surround channels found in traditional 7.1 systems. Adding surround channels behind the listener has a very small impact compared to the increase in envelopment and soundstage width that the Wide channels provide.

The next most important acoustical and perceptual cues come from reflections above the front stage. Audyssey DSX provides a pair of Height channels (LH and RH) that should be ideally positioned at a 45° elevation angle.

http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dsx.html

Craig

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post #3052 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 12:14 PM
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That little plastic dimple on the baffle covers a blue LED which is used when the speaker is set up as an active monitor, which has rarely been done.

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post #3053 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 03:08 PM
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As promised, here are some closeup pics of the dispersion lens. The first is the lens on the LCR. This lens is rotatable/aimable with +/- 6 degree of rotation.



Note the gradations on the upper and lower sides of the mouth, and the smooth surfaces on the left and right sides. Paul, can you provide some detail about the benefits/purposes of the gradations?

The second pic is the lens in the CC. I took the pic with a more overhead perspective to show the gradations better. This lens is not rotatable, but the speaker base has +/- 4 degrees of rotation built in to the feet mechanism.



Hope these help.

Craig
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post #3054 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

That little plastic dimple on the baffle covers a blue LED which is used when the speaker is set up as an active monitor, which has rarely been done.

Thanks Paul. Since mine are not active monitors, I hope they never light up.

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post #3055 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 04:18 PM
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Our those Plats the current version? The lens look similar to my Classic Golds that I have in my media room.

Just curious.

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post #3056 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 04:29 PM
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Paul tells me they were made in about 2005. There has been a crossover change, and some minor cabinet change, since mine were built.

Craig

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post #3057 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 06:53 PM
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Craig & DMark,

Bravo! Well done.

I'm going to try and make it to the next GTG. I don't know how to you keep finding these improvements. Every time it seems it can't get much better, you set the bar higher and achieve. Hey I noticed you moved your subs again . I bet there is another thread somewhere on that topic if I looked.

Dr V
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post #3058 of 6380 Old 06-08-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinculum View Post

Craig & DMark,

Bravo! Well done.

I'm going to try and make it to the next GTG. I don't know how to you keep finding these improvements. Every time it seems it can't get much better, you set the bar higher and achieve. Hey I noticed you moved your subs again . I bet there is another thread somewhere on that topic if I looked.

Dr V

Hi Scott,

The one thing I haven't done,(yet), is to tweak the subs. I moved the one sub up front just for the pic's, because it looks cool. This weekend I intend to spend some time playing around with xtz and see how they measure in this position. If they're not as good, the left sub is going back to the side wall where it was before.

For now the bass sounds great, but not quite as great as it did before. Still, I haven't played around yet with tweaking distances, gain-matching, etc. I just stuck 'em there, ran Audyssey and listened.

Look for that "other" post sometime after this weekend.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

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post #3059 of 6380 Old 06-09-2011, 10:52 AM
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Craig,

Those stands look indistinguishable from something that might have come from Triad. I'm sure Dennis' quality will be even more obvious in person. I am very much looking forward to seeing your rig now and, especially HEARING it.

Jeff
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post #3060 of 6380 Old 06-09-2011, 04:33 PM
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Craig: You are as bad as a friend of mine. Each time I visit his home, I end up spending money (most recently a new server and maybe a DAC). My guess is that your experience with you new speaker configuration will cost me money as well.

I am anxious to hear more on the wides BUT, you now have a 9.2 system versus my 5.2 (LCR + rear surrounds plus subs). If I were to add just two speakers, would you recommend side surrounds or wides?
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