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post #3961 of 6394 Old 03-10-2012, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by orthodoc99 View Post

Paul, you seem to have an excellent handle on Triad. I was wondering your opinion/thoughts for a possible setup I had in mind. My room is 25 longx15 feet wide. The televison is a 55in LG6500 (model 55lw6500) which will hang above the fireplace with the bottom of the TV 4-5 feet above ground. The TV is on the wall so the sofa will be in the center of the room relative to the length of the room (i.e. the sofa will be 12.5 from TV (and the front of room) and the back wall of the room is 12.5 feet from the sofa as well. My AV guy suggested using in wall Bronze/4 Satellite speakers so they fit within the molding of the walls. However, they would only be 11 inches from the ground. 2 would be placed in the front (12.5 feet from sofa) and two would also be placed in the back wall 11 inches above ground (these are 12.5 feet from the BACK of sofa since room is 25 feet long). I assume he'll tweak them for phantom center sound. Will be using Pioneer Elite VSX-52 as a receiver. What do you think? Would it be better to use a single Triad soundbar? Better to use in ceiling speakers? I brought all these up, but he still believes the in walls would be best option.
Thanks.

Without having the intimate knowledge of the job like your installer does, it's hard to make a suggestion, but, based upon what you've just said, I'd go with a Triad soundbar. That way the sound will correspond with what's on the screen and it won't be disembodied. You could do the OnWall Mini LCR 3.0, or even the even the 2.0 version, with phantom center.

If you're sitting 12.5' back in a 25' long room, expect no bass at the seating position. You're in the biggest null in the room. Move the seating forward or back a foot or two, and that will help.

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post #3962 of 6394 Old 03-10-2012, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post


A lower-priced name receiver that will drive a 6 ohm load will work just fine, and it will free up more budget dollars for better speakers. Your assessment is correct.

I don't know what code is for inwall wiring in your area, but you need to find out and comply. 16g is sufficient for runs up to 30', but you may want to do 14g or even 12g. It can't hurt.

What I like to run in better rooms is either a 16/4 or even a 14/4 to each speaker then double them up.
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post #3963 of 6394 Old 03-10-2012, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Without having the intimate knowledge of the job like your installer does, it's hard to make a suggestion, but, based upon what you've just said, I'd go with a Triad soundbar. That way the sound will correspond with what's on the screen and it won't be disembodied. You could do the OnWall Mini LCR 3.0, or even the even the 2.0 version, with phantom center.

If you're sitting 12.5' back in a 25' long room, expect no bass at the seating position. You're in the biggest null in the room. Move the seating forward or back a foot or two, and that will help.

Thanks, Paul. Appreciate the help. I'll push the sofa forward 1-2 feet.
Would you still recommend putting two in wall Bronze/4 Satellite speakers in the rear of the room if I used a the OnWall mini LCR or is the soundbar adequete alone? Is there a big difference between the Mini LCR 3.0 and the 3.0 SE? I'm by no means a true audiophile, just looking for good sound and experience for movie/tv watching without breaking the bank.

I also meant to ask you, what's the difference between the OnWall MicroSat 3.0, OnWall Micro LCR 3.0, OnWall Mini LCR 3.0, and the OnWall Mini LCR 3.0SE? For my purposes, based on the layout you recommmended above, would the MicroSat 3.0 be reasonable or do I have to upgrade? Depending on the price, I could still put 2 Bronze/4 satellite speakers in the back of the room (25 ft from the TV which is also 14 ft from the sofa). If I upgraded the soundbar to the top level (SE), I may have to hold out on the rear speakers and just go with the soundbar due to budget.

Again, Thanks.
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post #3964 of 6394 Old 03-11-2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthodoc99 View Post

Thanks, Paul. Appreciate the help. I'll push the sofa forward 1-2 feet.
Would you still recommend putting two in wall Bronze/4 Satellite speakers in the rear of the room if I used a the OnWall mini LCR or is the soundbar adequete alone? Is there a big difference between the Mini LCR 3.0 and the 3.0 SE? I'm by no means a true audiophile, just looking for good sound and experience for movie/tv watching without breaking the bank.

I also meant to ask you, what's the difference between the OnWall MicroSat 3.0, OnWall Micro LCR 3.0, OnWall Mini LCR 3.0, and the OnWall Mini LCR 3.0SE? For my purposes, based on the layout you recommmended above, would the MicroSat 3.0 be reasonable or do I have to upgrade? Depending on the price, I could still put 2 Bronze/4 satellite speakers in the back of the room (25 ft from the TV which is also 14 ft from the sofa). If I upgraded the soundbar to the top level (SE), I may have to hold out on the rear speakers and just go with the soundbar due to budget.

Again, Thanks.

A pair of Bronze Sats will do a nice job for surround, and I would definitely use surrounds. The OnWall Mini LCR 3.0 is 80% as good as the OnWall Mini LCR 3.0 SE, and at 43% the price. In your venue and at your listening distance, the standard 3.0 will be the more sensible choice. An InRoom Mini or Bronze OmniSub hidden in the room would help a lot, too.

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post #3965 of 6394 Old 03-11-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

A pair of Bronze Sats will do a nice job for surround, and I would definitely use surrounds. The OnWall Mini LCR 3.0 is 80% as good as the OnWall Mini LCR 3.0 SE, and at 43% the price. In your venue and at your listening distance, the standard 3.0 will be the more sensible choice. An InRoom Mini or Bronze OmniSub hidden in the room would help a lot, too.

Again, thanks for the advice. Sounds like the direction i'll head in.
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post #3966 of 6394 Old 03-11-2012, 07:10 PM
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I have older version of in wall bronze sub. I was wondering if the sub amp has built in subsonic filter? My amps are not the newer dsp version. My subs are about 8 years old.

Thanks
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post #3967 of 6394 Old 03-12-2012, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bezlar View Post

I have older version of in wall bronze sub. I was wondering if the sub amp has built in subsonic filter? My amps are not the newer dsp version. My subs are about 8 years old.

Thanks

As far as I know, all the pre-DSP amps had some form of built-in subsonic filter. Many Triad subs were highpassed above 20 Hz, but the frequency may have been lower on the bigger subs. It makes no sense for a sub amp to try to reproduce12 Hz. There's no program content down there, and you couldn't hear it anyway, and it's a good idea to block DC leakage from the driver.

The older Bronze sub was EQed to be -3 dB at 20 Hz (at lower output levels), and that's probably too much bass extension for such a sub. Most competitive subs of the same size start to roll off an octave higher.

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post #3968 of 6394 Old 03-13-2012, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

As far as I know, all the pre-DSP amps had some form of built-in subsonic filter. Many Triad subs were highpassed above 20 Hz, but the frequency may have been lower on the bigger subs. It makes no sense for a sub amp to try to reproduce12 Hz. There's no program content down there, and you couldn't hear it anyway, and it's a good idea to block DC leakage from the driver.

The older Bronze sub was EQed to be -3 dB at 20 Hz (at lower output levels), and that's probably too much bass extension for such a sub. Most competitive subs of the same size start to roll off an octave higher.

Thanks, that's what I was hoping you would say. I have installed some bigger subs that can handle the really low frq, and was hoping I didn't need to choke off my triads. I still use them but have them about 6db off of my main subs.
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post #3969 of 6394 Old 03-13-2012, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bezlar View Post

Thanks, that's what I was hoping you would say. I have installed some bigger subs that can handle the really low frq, and was hoping I didn't need to choke off my triads. I still use them but have them about 6db off of my main subs.

Another thing...if you have older Class AB sub amps from Triad that give you a choice of using an input named "theater," then use it. It starts rolling bass off at 40 Hz. This input will give you the most output, but with limited bass extension. It's also sometimes called a "THX" input because...supposedly..."room gain" will increase frequencies below 300 Hz by around 3 dB/octave. The theory is that if you don't apply the inverse curve, your bass will be too pronounced the lower you go. In actual practice, I have never experienced this bad/good thing.

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post #3970 of 6394 Old 03-14-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Another thing...if you have older Class AB sub amps from Triad that give you a choice of using an input named "theater," then use it. It starts rolling bass off at 40 Hz. This input will give you the most output, but with limited bass extension. It's also sometimes called a "THX" input because...supposedly..."room gain" will increase frequencies below 300 Hz by around 3 dB/octave. The theory is that if you don't apply the inverse curve, your bass will be too pronounced the lower you go. In actual practice, I have never experienced this bad/good thing.

If my memory serves I don't think the level control on the front works with the theater? Yes or no?

Thanks
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post #3971 of 6394 Old 03-14-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bezlar View Post

If my memory serves I don't think the level control on the front works with the theater? Yes or no?

Thanks

From what I remember, no it doesn't. You can calibrate and adjust bass level in the receiver or processor.

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post #3972 of 6394 Old 03-14-2012, 02:18 PM
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Planning to finish my basement and was hoping to get some thoughts on a possible setup for a media/family room. The room is 40' long x16' wide x 8' high. The room is not fully enclosed, the right side (when facing the TV) is open to the rest of the basement from about halfway (20') to the back wall. The main listening position will be 10-12' from the TV (plasma or LCD). Leaning towards in-wall speakers to keep the wife happy and because i have young kids that destroy everything in their path. Have read great things on here about Triad spreakers so i'm hoping i can fit in my budget (~$5k for speakers and receiver). Would like to go with a 7.1/7.2system due to size of room but could go 5.1/5.2 for now and prewire for future expansion. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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post #3973 of 6394 Old 03-16-2012, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by joshandcam View Post

Planning to finish my basement and was hoping to get some thoughts on a possible setup for a media/family room. The room is 40' long x16' wide x 8' high. The room is not fully enclosed, the right side (when facing the TV) is open to the rest of the basement from about halfway (20') to the back wall. The main listening position will be 10-12' from the TV (plasma or LCD). Leaning towards in-wall speakers to keep the wife happy and because i have young kids that destroy everything in their path. Have read great things on here about Triad spreakers so i'm hoping i can fit in my budget (~$5k for speakers and receiver). Would like to go with a 7.1/7.2system due to size of room but could go 5.1/5.2 for now and prewire for future expansion. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks for considering Triad. You'll want to contact a local authorized Triad dealer for advice and prewiring. To find a dealer, go to "how to buy" at www.triadspeakers.com and call the local Triad rep in your area. He'll hook you up with an appropriate dealer, if you don't already have one.

I would put the money into 5.1 and wire for 7.1 or 7.2. For that room and your budget, I'd suggest InWall Silver/4 LCRs for the three fronts, a pair of InWall Silver/4 Surrounds, and an InRoom Silver OmniSub. I've used up your entire budget for speakers ($5,050), but that's what's right for your room. A receiver that can drive a 6 ohm load and that has at least 80 watts per channel will work fine. You should be able to get something in the $800 range. I understand this is over budget, but Bronze LCRs and Bronze Surrounds won't save you all that much ($1,300 less) and Silvers are right for your room.

I defer to the wisdom of an installer who has actually been in the room.

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post #3974 of 6394 Old 03-17-2012, 11:40 AM
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Hey Paul,
One more quick question for you. Based on my room layout (see post 3961 above- 25 x15). Would you recommend (1) four inwall bronze 4 sat speakers (again about 11-12 inches above the floor) with an onwall center micro LCR, or a (2) micro LCR 3.0 with two bronze 4 sat speakers in the back of the room (again 11-12 inches above the floor).
Thanks.
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post #3975 of 6394 Old 03-17-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by orthodoc99 View Post

Hey Paul,
One more quick question for you. Based on my room layout (see post 3961 above- 25 x15). Would you recommend (1) four inwall bronze 4 sat speakers (again about 11-12 inches above the floor) with an onwall center micro LCR, or a (2) micro LCR 3.0 with two bronze 4 sat speakers in the back of the room (again 11-12 inches above the floor).
Thanks.

I would use the OnWall MicroLCR 3.0 for the front soundstage. Otherwise, the sound will be disembodied from the picture. Surrounds a foot off the floor is a bad arrangement, too, but still acceptable.

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post #3976 of 6394 Old 03-18-2012, 04:38 AM
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Thanks for the advice Paul. A couple of quick follow up questions:

If i go with 5.1 for now, should I install side surrounds or rears? Rears will have to be in ceiling due to lack of side wall. Any particular in ceiling speaker that you'd recommend for this room? Also, how far back from the sofa would you suggest for rears?

Lastly, are there particular brands of receivers that are better for 6 ohm soreakers?
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post #3977 of 6394 Old 03-18-2012, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by joshandcam View Post

Thanks for the advice Paul. A couple of quick follow up questions:

If i go with 5.1 for now, should I install side surrounds or rears? Rears will have to be in ceiling due to lack of side wall. Any particular in ceiling speaker that you'd recommend for this room? Also, how far back from the sofa would you suggest for rears?

Lastly, are there particular brands of receivers that are better for 6 ohm soreakers?

Do the side surrounds first. The placement of the rear surrounds depends upon if they're round ceiling speakers that aim straight down or angled-baffle speakers that aim at the seating area. Angled-baffle inceiling speakers can be farther back.

I would welcome suggestions from those more familiar with current receivers. The most important feature of any receiver is it's ability to drive speakers; not it's plethora of bells and whistles. Features are nice, but the main function of a receiver is to power the speakers. If a receiver even acknowledges the ability to drive a 6 ohm load, it will probably handle 4 ohms, too. Most manufacturers are very conservative with the impedance spec. From my experience, in the under-$800 range, Newcastle, Harman Kardon, Denon, Pioneer, NAD, Integra, Onkyo, etc. all work well. I have a slight preference for NAD, even if the power ratings *look* lower. In reality, they aren't lower.

I would also heed the recommendations of your local dealer.

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post #3978 of 6394 Old 03-18-2012, 08:10 AM
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What's the status for rack amps for Plat subs? How far in the future will rack amps once again be offered with this sub?
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post #3979 of 6394 Old 03-19-2012, 11:33 AM
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What's the status for rack amps for Plat subs? How far in the future will rack amps once again be offered with this sub?

As I am retired from the audio industry (and Triad), I don't know. The last I heard, there will be no RackAmp 1000s. There was a plan for a RackAmp 1200 at a later date, but that date has not been set. I ordered my two Gold subs with the onboard amplifiers, and it gave me a lot more rack space.

The reason for discontinuing the outboard 1,000 watt amp stemmed from a supplier issue, and it could not be helped. It wasn't something Triad wanted to do, but at least the plate amp is available. There's no performance difference, and the plate amp version is $250 less.

The newest version of the Gold DSP Sub uses a 600 watt amp instead of the older 1,000 watt amp, and, with a newer, high-sensitivity driver, the new Gold sub will play a bit louder and deeper than the version I have.

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post #3980 of 6394 Old 03-24-2012, 07:32 PM
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Finishing up my false wall and preparing to melt my face off. Just waiting for AT screen to arrive on Tuesday. Initial audio tests brought a tear to my eye. A vertical center channel is the only way to go. Sorry for the fuzzy pic. I'll post better pics soon...


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post #3981 of 6394 Old 03-24-2012, 07:37 PM
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Finishing up my false wall and preparing to melt my face off. Just waiting for AT screen to arrive on Tuesday. Initial audio tests brought a tear to my eye. A vertical center channel is the only way to go.


I agree Tony, LCR's behind an AT screen is the way to go but stop crying, there's no crying in AV ...

What size/format screen are you getting?

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post #3982 of 6394 Old 03-24-2012, 07:47 PM
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I agree Tony, LCR's behind an AT screen is the way to go but stop crying, there's no crying in AV ...

What size/format screen are you getting?

120 inch wide 2.35

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post #3983 of 6394 Old 03-24-2012, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Finishing up my false wall and preparing to melt my face off. Just waiting for AT screen to arrive on Tuesday. Initial audio tests brought a tear to my eye. A vertical center channel is the only way to go. Sorry for the fuzzy pic. I'll post better pics soon...

110% agree. My last theater room did not have an AT screen, and had a traditional horizontal center speaker, and the off-axis response always bothered me. New house has an AT screen and three vertical in-wall speakers. Loving it. Made a huge difference for the overall movie watching experience.. There is just something about the audio coming right at you behind the screen, and the off-axis response is much improved.
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post #3984 of 6394 Old 03-24-2012, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post


110% agree. My last theater room did not have an AT screen, and had a traditional horizontal center speaker, and the off-axis response always bothered me. New house has an AT screen and three vertical in-wall speakers. Loving it. Made a huge difference for the overall movie watching experience.. There is just something about the audio coming right at you behind the screen, and the off-axis response is much improved.

You have some great looking speakers there!

Edit, sorry, not insinuating that my own space is great.. The iPad Avs app wont let me deleted the post (it gives you the option but want delete it)...
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post #3985 of 6394 Old 03-25-2012, 04:20 AM
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Looks fantastic - I'm about 4 weeks behind you and can't wait to test the audio. I'm sure you thought about this but when I did my last movie room I didn't paint over the silver washers on the front wall and I could occassionally see one of them through the AT screen. I'm sure no one else ever noticed but it annoyed me! Just thought I would mention it!!
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post #3986 of 6394 Old 03-25-2012, 04:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Finishing up my false wall and preparing to melt my face off. Just waiting for AT screen to arrive on Tuesday. Initial audio tests brought a tear to my eye. A vertical center channel is the only way to go. Sorry for the fuzzy pic. I'll post better pics soon...

Did you replace some different speakers, or were you originally using the centre horizontally?
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post #3987 of 6394 Old 03-25-2012, 06:24 AM
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Looks great, Tony. I would even make the statement that if anyone does a front projector and uses a fixed screen with a horizontal center channel speaker, they have made a huge mistake. New AT screens are far better than what was available even five years ago. I'm sure some will disagree, and I will fight to the death to protect their incorrect statements...

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post #3988 of 6394 Old 03-25-2012, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Finishing up my false wall and preparing to melt my face off. Just waiting for AT screen to arrive on Tuesday. Initial audio tests brought a tear to my eye. A vertical center channel is the only way to go. Sorry for the fuzzy pic. I'll post better pics soon...

Great job Tony! One little item.........don't forget to paint those roofing washers holding up the treatments! Use the flat barb-e-que high temp paint. With the great weather you're having.........why not have a barbie get together and have the guests paint!

You're getting me excited Tony........I'm getting closer to building my own DHT. Just recently sold my flood plain due to county not approving my building plans, bought another piece of property........now to sell my so called "mansion".

I'm using you as a mentor Tony........Plats, Sony 1000........Enlighter 4k......oh my!

Looking good!
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post #3989 of 6394 Old 03-25-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

Did you replace some different speakers, or were you originally using the centre horizontally?

No. I had to replace my horizontal center with an LCR.

McIntosh MX151 Owner's Thread

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post #3990 of 6394 Old 03-25-2012, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Great job Tony! One little item.........don't forget to paint those roofing washers holding up the treatments! Use the flat barb-e-que high temp paint. With the great weather you're having.........why not have a barbie get together and have the guests paint!

You're getting me excited Tony........I'm getting closer to building my own DHT. Just recently sold my flood plain due to county not approving my building plans, bought another piece of property........now to sell my so called "mansion".

I'm using you as a mentor Tony........Plats, Sony 1000........Enlighter 4k......oh my!

Looking good!

I had planned on that but the material has a black backing which should hide everything behind the screen. No need to paint those. I am going to test it anyway and see if they show once the screen is in.

McIntosh MX151 Owner's Thread

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