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post #4141 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Schaf44 View Post

Is there any difference in how a DSP sub will sound or perform if hooking it up via the LFE input connection with a mono RCA cable versus the Balanced XLR input? Is one more efficient or better than the other? It seems from reading the manual, that the LFE is the primary method of hookup and I would just don't understand the difference, especially if the Balanced XLR input have lower noise or interference.

I see no advantage of using balanced to the sub, but we at Triad got tired of having people ask if we had balanced inputs. So now, we just say "yes."

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post #4142 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post

To The Triad Dude

Paul - I am getting close to pulling the trigger on three IR Gold Monitors for front soundstage and two IR Silver Monitors for surrounds. I had questioned you earlier on Gold Minimonitors for surrounds, and was going to go that route, but for the difference in $$ I think the Silvers would be nicer. Let me know if you feel this would be a bad decision.

Also, I would be ordering pedestals for both front and rear (LR only) and can not find the specs for the Silver Monitor pedestals on your site (it actually says "Available soon"). Is there anyway I can get my hands on those specs?

~ Mike

Sorry for the delayed response...

Pedestals are available for most Triad front speakers, and you can get the specs from Triad. I would use Silver Monitors for surrounds instead of Gold MiniMonitors because the higher sensitivity is more important than the bass extension of the MiniMonitors.

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post #4143 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 07:41 AM
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Retirement is keeping me very busy, and I apologize for my protracted absence.

Let me address the Platinum LCR/Gold Monitor question once again. I've had both in my theater, which is under 1,900 cubic feet. I sit around 8' away from the screen/speakers. In my room, the Platinum LCR was delightfully "too big," and I could crush myself with them. The dynamics were breathtaking, but they still resolved detail. In a room bigger than mine, they're my favorite Triad speakers. At high playback levels in any room, they're my favorite Triad speakers.

That said, at or below reference level in a room under 2,500 cubic feet, the Gold Monitor has greater resolution, especially in the range of the tweeter, which is the unparalleled Scan Speak Revelator R-29. It's as extended as a ribbon, with response to 60 kHz. At lower levels in my room, the Gold Monitor is slightly better. But of you listen at 107 dB and above, the Platinum LCR is the clear winner. There is no compression of dynamics, and it is possibly the best-sounding speaker made that will play that loud.

There is no single best-sounding speaker. The application is everything. Probably the best value and compromise in the Triad line is the Gold LCR, which sounds excellent AND it will play to brain-damaging levels, but at only a couple thousand bucks each. In my room and they way I listen now, Gold Monitors are the best. There are times, though, when I miss the sheer, stupid, effortless power of the Platinum LCRs; even though the Gold Monitors crank in my treated theater.

All three speakers under discussion here will benefit from a good, high-current amp that delivers at least 300 watts into 4 ohms. Anything below that, and the amp is the limiting factor.

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post #4144 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeda View Post

Need some advice. I plan to upgrade my 5.1 in-ceiling system. I want a clean look to the room so I am considering in-wall speakers for LCR. These will be placed around a TV on a fireplace for a 15x20 room with 8ft ceilings. Using Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver with Rel T9 sub.

Options

1. B&W CWM7.3. These run about $1500 per speaker. They would likely match well with the B&W 818s I have.

2. Triad silver in-wall. These run about $1100 each. Have heard good things about these speakers from others, but have not been able to demo them.

3. Atlantic technology IWTS-30. These run about $1250 each. Also, have heard good things but have not been able to find them around town to listen to. Located in LA if anyone has suggestions.

4. Snell AMC 2000THX-inwall Ultra 2. These run about $1400 each.

A second but related question relates to speaker placement. If I go with new LCR in-walls around the TV. I can repurpose my 3 B&W 818s that are currently being used as LCR. Based on my room configuration, would I be better served using two speakers as front high or wide and one as back surround or do I use two for back surround and use one in another room?

Lastly, I really want to improve my two channel listening. I can't go with inroom speakers, but I would like to significantly improve the sound stage, imaging and musicality of my system. Which in-walls will help this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deeda View Post

I am prepared to uninstall the speakers if necessary. However, my left and right front speakers are currently set up at the front corners of the room. The center in the middle. If I go with front high, then I would not need to do anything to the front left and right in-ceiling and would only need to move the center. I am no expert and if the installer (someone else will be doing the installation) suggests that they the LCR be moved, then I will move them.

If you're going to use height speakers, you need to decide whether you will use Dolby Height or Audyssey DSX Height placements. They are different. Dolby Height speakers should be placed directly above the L & R speakers. Audyssey DSX Height speakers should be placed at a 45 degree angle above the listening position. I doesn't sound like speakers in the room corners meets either requirement.

If you want to use them as Wides, you'll be using Audyssey DSX, and they should be installed at 60 degrees to the LP, at the same height as the mains. IOW, they would installed in the walls instead of the ceiling.

If you move them to the Side or Rear surround positions, they could be used in the ceiling.

The Atlantic Technology speaker you mention is designed for new construction. The enclosure is difficult to retrofit into existing walls. If you don't use the enclosure, it looses it's THX certification.

The Snell AMC2000 THX is not a "current" Snell speaker. Their current THX certified in-wall is the IW-C7THX:
http://www.snellacoustics.com/ProductDetails/3389.asp

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #4145 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 02:31 PM
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I like the clarity of my new setup. However I am not sure I am getting the bang for the buck over my old system. I feel like the bass just lacks that chest rattling thump. Is there anything I need to do to get my bass levels up yet not distort the rest of my sound?

I currently have:

Aventage RX-1010
3 InRoom Bronze LCR for left, front and center channel
2 InCeiling Bronze/8 Satellite for my rear channels
1 Old onkyo sub in the fron left corner of the room and
1 InCeiling Mini/8 Sub that splits the left and right rear channels
Seperate Triad Amp controling both subwoofers (I think)

I used YPAO and all speakers are set to small it also set my levels are all roughly +/- 2
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post #4146 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabuf View Post

I like the clarity of my new setup. However I am not sure I am getting the bang for the buck over my old system. I feel like the bass just lacks that chest rattling thump. Is there anything I need to do to get my bass levels up yet not distort the rest of my sound?

I currently have:

Aventage RX-1010
3 InRoom Bronze LCR for left, front and center channel
2 InCeiling Bronze/8 Satellite for my rear channels
1 Old onkyo sub in the fron left corner of the room and
1 InCeiling Mini/8 Sub that splits the left and right rear channels
Seperate Triad Amp controling both subwoofers (I think)

I used YPAO and all speakers are set to small it also set my levels are all roughly +/- 2

Id highly recommend you consider getting a "better" sub (onkyo replacement). What's your roomsize?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4147 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 02:37 PM
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I am not opposed to replacing the onkyo, but when I try to isolate how much bass I am getting from the 8in in celing sub it doesn't seem that impressive, its not out performing the cheap onkyo I have in my opinoin.

I have an open floor plan where the right side of my room opens to the kitchen. I d say my imediate area is about 20 by 15, but probably 20 by 40 if you include open area out to the kitchen
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post #4148 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabuf View Post

I am not opposed to replacing the onkyo, but when I try to isolate how much bass I am getting from the 8in in celing sub it doesn't seem that impressive, its not out performing the cheap onkyo I have in my opinoin.

I have an open floor plan where the right side of my room opens to the kitchen. I d say my imediate area is about 20 by 15, but probably 20 by 40 if you include open area out to the kitchen

An 8 inch sub won't do you justice. You need a 12 in that room (or2)

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4149 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 02:42 PM
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Wow, really? Triad doesn't go bigger than a 10 in ceiling. Thoughts on in celing vs. floor? Also what brands would you recomend that won't set me back 2k?
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post #4150 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabuf View Post

Wow, really? Triad doesn't go bigger than a 10 in ceiling. Thoughts on in celing vs. floor? Also what brands would you recomend that won't set me back 2k?

I don't have any experience with inwall/ceiling subs so I can't comment there but if your budget is 2k you can easily get two nice 12 subs from any of the id companieslike hsu, outlaw, eD, rythmik, and such.

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4151 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 02:51 PM
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What about down firing vs side firing? It's on a hardwood floor next to a concrete wall on the left and my entertainment console on the left... Also if I keep the 8" in celing, how big would I need to go witn the onkyo replacement?
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post #4152 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 02:52 PM
 
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I can't see a couple of 12" Subwoofers under 2k providing 'chest rattling thump' though - unless you position them either side of the arms of your chair firing directly at you.
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post #4153 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 02:54 PM
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My room is about the same size and yea nearfield placement works best. He can always try two vtf15h

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4154 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 03:00 PM
 
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I've had 2x Dual 12" Subs in a very small room and they didn't give 'chest rattling thump'. I'm not sure of the US price, but I imgaine they would have been around $1500 each.

This 'chest rattling thump' is not an easy thing to achieve, especially not at low prices - unless you go DIY.
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post #4155 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 03:01 PM
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Dual lfm1ex's worked well in my very open room

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4156 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

An 8 inch sub won't do you justice. You need a 12 in that room (or2)

True. Expecting a single 8" sub to power a home theater is unrealistic. Also review your seating position and make sure you're not exactly halfway between the walls or in the center of the room because no bass exists there, and two-18" subs won't fix that.

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post #4157 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabuf View Post

Wow, really? Triad doesn't go bigger than a 10 in ceiling. Thoughts on in celing vs. floor? Also what brands would you recomend that won't set me back 2k?

Triad has a long-throw 12" InCeiling sub. Two of them will make blood flow from your eyes and ears in a room that size. And a sub doesn't know if it's in a ceiling or on the floor. The performance is the same. It's placement and the location of the seating are more important than the sub.

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post #4158 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Retirement is keeping me very busy, and I apologize for my protracted absence.

Let me address the Platinum LCR/Gold Monitor question once again. I've had both in my theater, which is under 1,900 cubic feet. I sit around 8' away from the screen/speakers. In my room, the Platinum LCR was delightfully "too big," and I could crush myself with them. The dynamics were breathtaking, but they still resolved detail. In a room bigger than mine, they're my favorite Triad speakers. At high playback levels in any room, they're my favorite Triad speakers.

That said, at or below reference level in a room under 2,500 cubic feet, the Gold Monitor has greater resolution, especially in the range of the tweeter, which is the unparalleled Scan Speak Revelator R-29. It's as extended as a ribbon, with response to 60 kHz. At lower levels in my room, the Gold Monitor is slightly better. But of you listen at 107 dB and above, the Platinum LCR is the clear winner. There is no compression of dynamics, and it is possibly the best-sounding speaker made that will play that loud.

There is no single best-sounding speaker. The application is everything. Probably the best value and compromise in the Triad line is the Gold LCR, which sounds excellent AND it will play to brain-damaging levels, but at only a couple thousand bucks each. In my room and they way I listen now, Gold Monitors are the best. There are times, though, when I miss the sheer, stupid, effortless power of the Platinum LCRs; even though the Gold Monitors crank in my treated theater.

All three speakers under discussion here will benefit from a good, high-current amp that delivers at least 300 watts into 4 ohms. Anything below that, and the amp is the limiting factor.


I think the best triad speaker would be:

Woofers from GOLD LCR
Mid Range from Platinum LCR
Tweeter from Gold Monitor
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post #4159 of 6266 Old 04-30-2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by joaquin View Post

I think the best triad speaker would be:

Woofers from GOLD LCR
Mid Range from Platinum LCR
Tweeter from Gold Monitor

I can now see the new Triad line.......... Triad Unattainium LCR!
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post #4160 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 12:05 AM
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Recently purchased 3 Bronze LCRs for L, C, and R as well as 2 Bronze Satellites. I plan on using these along with my existing 5 B&W M1s for a 9.2 setup. Currently thinking 5.1 + front heights and wides.

1) Would it be a good match to eventually replace the other 2 fronts with another set of Bronze Satellites?

2) Are the satellites a good match to the Bronze LCR?

3) Listening area is 18' W x 12' L with the TV on the longer wall. My only rear surrounds are directly to the sides of the sofa facing the TV. Would Bronze surrounds (dipoles) do best in this size room and without the use of surround backs?

4) I also plan on getting a 2nd subwoofer to compliment my Emotiva Ultra 12. Looking at the Silver+ line of Triad subs. What is the difference between the OmniSub and regular Sub and how do these subs compare to AVS revered internet direct subwoofer companies?

5) I'm undoubtedly replacing my Onkyo TX-NR508 with something that has more power. Looking at TX-NR1009 right now, but welcome to other suggestions.
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post #4161 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joaquin View Post

I think the best triad speaker would be:

Woofers from GOLD LCR
Mid Range from Platinum LCR
Tweeter from Gold Monitor

All great drivers, but there's more involved in designing a loudspeaker. The drivers have to work well together and within the context of the design. The 10" Scan-Speak woofers used in the Platinum LCR are better drivers than the 8" Seas aluminum-cone woofers in the Gold LCR, but those woofers are better for the Gold LCR. The Scan-Speak mids used in the Platinum LCR and Silver Monitors and MiniMonitors are excellent as long as they aren't asked to play too loud below 200 Hz. The Scan-Speak R-29 tweeter is among the best tweeters ever made, but it's broad dispersion would be a nightmare through the dispersion control lens.

But...if Triad did design a speaker using the three speakers you suggest and not use the horn, it would be pretty damn good, and not especially big. There are some new designs being tossed around, with products still many months away, though. I'll keep you posted.

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post #4162 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

Recently purchased 3 Bronze LCRs for L, C, and R as well as 2 Bronze Satellites. I plan on using these along with my existing 5 B&W M1s for a 9.2 setup. Currently thinking 5.1 + front heights and wides.

1) Would it be a good match to eventually replace the other 2 fronts with another set of Bronze Satellites?

You could replace them with Bronze Sats, but that would not be a big priority for an effects speaker.

Quote:
2) Are the satellites a good match to the Bronze LCR?

The drivers are the same, so, "yes."

Quote:
3) Listening area is 18' W x 12' L with the TV on the longer wall. My only rear surrounds are directly to the sides of the sofa facing the TV. Would Bronze surrounds (dipoles) do best in this size room and without the use of surround backs?

Due to your proximity to your rear surrounds, dipoles might work better. They certainly won't hotspot nearly as much as direct-radiating speakers. You can still use rear surrounds, depending upon where your seating is, and they should be placed relatively close together.

Quote:
4) I also plan on getting a 2nd subwoofer to compliment my Emotiva Ultra 12. Looking at the Silver+ line of Triad subs. What is the difference between the OmniSub and regular Sub and how do these subs compare to AVS revered internet direct subwoofer companies?

The value leader in the Triad sub line is the Silver OmniSub at $950. That buys you a high-sensitivity 12" driver in a dead enclosure and a real 500 watt BASH amplifier. (RMS, not peak or downhill with a tailwind.) The sub has excellent extension and high output.

Quote:
5) I'm undoubtedly replacing my Onkyo TX-NR508 with something that has more power. Looking at TX-NR1009 right now, but welcome to other suggestions.

The ability to drive a 4 ohm load is more important than the number of "watts." At least make sure anything you buy is comfortable driving a 6 ohm load. And remember (for example) going up from 60 watts to 90 watts yields a 1.5 dB increase in measured output, which is negligible. Something that can deliver 100 watts per channel (all channels driven into 6 ohms) will hit with more authority, though.

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post #4163 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 12:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

I'm undoubtedly replacing my Onkyo TX-NR508 with something that has more power. Looking at TX-NR1009 right now, but welcome to other suggestions.

I would suggest an 818 and a decent Power Amp, the Onkyo Amps are a little lightweight with 4ohm speakers.
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post #4164 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

You could replace them with Bronze Sats, but that would not be a big priority for an effects speaker.

What exactly do you mean by this? I take this as I won't be getting a big benefit from going from M1 to Bronze Sat?

Quote:
Due to your proximity to your rear surrounds, dipoles might work better. They certainly won't hotspot nearly as much as direct-radiating speakers. You can still use rear surrounds, depending upon where your seating is, and they should be placed relatively close together.

To clarify, the sofa is directly in line with the rear surrounds but there is still several feet (3-4ish) between the edges of the sofa and the speakers.

Can you comment on using these alone as "rear" surrounds with 7 speakers as fronts in a 9.x system, all running in Audyssey DSX?

Quote:
The value leader in the Triad sub line is the Silver OmniSub at $950. That buys you a high-sensitivity 12" driver in a dead enclosure and a real 500 watt BASH amplifier. (RMS, not peak or downhill with a tailwind.) The sub has excellent extension and high output.

How does the OmniSub compare to my Emotiva Ultra 12 and what are the benefits of moving up to the regular Silver Sub?

Quote:
The ability to drive a 4 ohm load is more important than the number of "watts." At least make sure anything you buy is comfortable driving a 6 ohm load. And remember (for example) going up from 60 watts to 90 watts yields a 1.5 dB increase in measured output, which is negligible. Something that can deliver 100 watts per channel (all channels driven into 6 ohms) will hit with more authority, though.

I'm a newbie to interpreting receiver specifications, but "something that can deliver 100 watts per channel (all channels driven into 6 ohms...)" would be listed at around 70 watts per channel driven into 8 ohms? The TX-NR1009 is rated at 135 watts per channel, driven into 8 ohms per channel.

As far as I know...

...there is a central power source that, only when divided equally among all channels, averages to be about 135 watts per channel, but isn't limited to that.
...a 4 ohm speaker will draw about double the power, or a 6 ohm draws about 1.5x as much.
...I want to give each speaker as much power as it can take.


Paul, thanks for all of the input. I regard you as THE source for reliable Triad information.
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post #4165 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 12:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

The TX-NR1009 is rated at 135 watts per channel, driven into 8 ohms per channel.

But the reality is probably more like half of that (at best) with all channels driven.
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post #4166 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

But the reality is probably more like half of that (at best) with all channels driven.

That bad, huh? That's really disappointing. Is there a way to find reliable specs?
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post #4167 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 01:38 PM
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Some Onkyo's are not that bad or atleast better than what other brands claim.

Here's the 1009 bench test.
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post #4168 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 02:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

That bad, huh? That's really disappointing. Is there a way to find reliable specs?

Unfortunately there isn't.

For example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Some Onkyo's are not that bad or atleast better than what other brands claim.

Here's the 1009 bench test.

This bench test suggests that the 1009 does better than the 3008 and 5008, compared to a bench test I saw of the 5008.
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post #4169 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Some Onkyo's are not that bad or atleast better than what other brands claim.

Here's the 1009 bench test.

The 4 ohm spec is actually very impressive, as long as the unit doesn't go into thermal protection. 250 watts at 1% distortion is pretty good headroom; especially for Bronze LCRs.

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post #4170 of 6266 Old 05-01-2012, 03:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

The 4 ohm spec is actually very impressive, as long as the unit doesn't go into thermal protection. 250 watts at 1% distortion is pretty good headroom; especially for Bronze LCRs.

That is only 2 channels driven and I still don't trust these bench tests. Here's the 5008 measuring lower than the 1009 with 5 and 7 channels driven - which doesn't add up.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/o...-labs-measures
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