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post #6331 of 6522 Old 08-02-2014, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by whallyden View Post
Hi all, hope you can help -- and thanks in advance. My old Marantz AVR just gave up the ghost. I suspect it was never up to the task of driving the triad's and died of shame. I'm looking for recommendations to replace it. This is for my living room in-ceiling 5.1 set up: Bronze/8 LCR (3), Bronze/4 Surround (2), and Paradigm DSP-3100. Room dimensions are 18x21x10h. The room is open to another room equally as large. Our dedicated home theater is still a work in progress, so this space serves as the interim theater as well as the location for daily TV viewing and music listening. As a result, listening levels run the gamut.

Can I get away with an integrated AVR (e.g. Denon 4520), or do I need to look into separate amp and processor? Would love to keep this under $2k.

Thanks again
Bronze should be drivable with a good AVR. Which makes one wonder what happened with the Marantz. Which one was it?

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post #6332 of 6522 Old 08-03-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Bronze should be drivable with a good AVR. Which makes one wonder what happened with the Marantz. Which one was it?
It was an SR5002 that pre-dated the Triad purchase. It stopped in operation last night and has the dreaded flashing standby light of death.
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post #6333 of 6522 Old 08-03-2014, 06:50 AM
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It probably had nothing to do with the Triads. We use Marantz receivers with Triad speakers all the time, and they work and sound great.
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post #6334 of 6522 Old 08-03-2014, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by [COLOR=#000
jon[/COLOR]owakes;26245001]Thanks dawn . Are the silver surrounds what you would choose for the room I posted above? As opposed to the omni line?
Because there really isn't any room behind your couch for rear surrounds, take them out of the equation entirely. Instead, I would suggest using IW Silver Surrounds in the ceiling to the left and right of your theater chairs. Keep them about a foot from the walls on each side.
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post #6335 of 6522 Old 08-03-2014, 07:30 AM
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Something like that Denon should be fine.

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post #6336 of 6522 Old 08-03-2014, 04:23 PM
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Any word on the atmos Triad speakers? I'm trying to figure out how big my backer boxes needed to be. Drywall occurs before CEDIA....Any help would be most appreciated!
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post #6337 of 6522 Old 08-03-2014, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Any word on the atmos Triad speakers? I'm trying to figure out how big my backer boxes needed to be. Drywall occurs before CEDIA....Any help would be most appreciated!
Have been in communique' with Director of Product Development at Triad concerning Atmos implementation for my room. Conclusion was custom built speakers......no mention whatsoever about "New" product specifically designed for Atmos. That's not to say something is in pipeline, but had the feeling there was a leaning curve to clarify Dolby's recommendations on where, what, and how. Suspect most manufacturer's are scrambling too.
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post #6338 of 6522 Old 08-03-2014, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Have been in communique' with Director of Product Development at Triad concerning Atmos implementation for my room. Conclusion was custom built speakers......no mention whatsoever about "New" product specifically designed for Atmos. That's not to say something is in pipeline, but had the feeling there was a leaning curve to clarify Dolby's recommendations on where, what, and how. Suspect most manufacturer's are scrambling too.
From the posts here already, look to CEDIA for more announcements about Triad Atmos models.

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post #6339 of 6522 Old 08-04-2014, 01:55 PM
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I have a quick question about installation of the on-wall bronze surrounds. My setup has the in-room silver LCR in the front of the room, the in-ceiling bronze/8 LCR (a pair) for the rear surrounds in the ceiling at the rear of the room pointed directly forward (no room to toe them in to the MLP) and the only mounting option I have for the side surrounds is also on the ceiling about 1.5 ft. behind the MLP.

The question is - the instructions has me placing the surrounds on the wall with the arrow pointing forward to the tv or screen. To adapt to a ceiling mount, would I simply place them on the "imaginary" wall (there is a little kitchen where the wall would be on one side) and slide them up and over where the arrow would be toward the center of the room and still pointing at the screen? Or is there other some more complex engineering that would go into mounting them on the ceiling?

Thanks in advance...
Bill
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post #6340 of 6522 Old 08-04-2014, 04:47 PM
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Hey guys - Paul "Triad Dude" asked me to pass a message along to everyone on this thread. He's currently having login issues and is trying to work it out with the AVS admins. He will be back online soon.

He wanted to make sure everyone was made aware and he wasn't ignoring any of you.

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post #6341 of 6522 Old 08-05-2014, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
I have a quick question about installation of the on-wall bronze surrounds. My setup has the in-room silver LCR in the front of the room, the in-ceiling bronze/8 LCR (a pair) for the rear surrounds in the ceiling at the rear of the room pointed directly forward (no room to toe them in to the MLP) and the only mounting option I have for the side surrounds is also on the ceiling about 1.5 ft. behind the MLP.

The question is - the instructions has me placing the surrounds on the wall with the arrow pointing forward to the tv or screen. To adapt to a ceiling mount, would I simply place them on the "imaginary" wall (there is a little kitchen where the wall would be on one side) and slide them up and over where the arrow would be toward the center of the room and still pointing at the screen? Or is there other some more complex engineering that would go into mounting them on the ceiling?

Thanks in advance...
Bill
The arrow still needs to point towards the screen.
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post #6342 of 6522 Old 08-05-2014, 12:21 PM
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Thanks Dawn - that was what I had thought but needed expert confirmation
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post #6343 of 6522 Old 08-05-2014, 01:44 PM
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Hello again all, I am about 6 weeks away from listening to my InWall Silver LCR's all around (with the platinum sub since I have ~ 4100 sq ft) and I had a question I was hoping someone might be able to answer for me. I am using the Triad supplied in wall mounting frames for the speakers, however, I also have 2 layers of drywall with Greenglue in between them. This leaves a gap between the edge of the mounting frame and where painted wall begins from the extra layer of drywall.

Are there going to be any issues with mounting the speaker flush with the wall? Is there anything I can do to make sure things go well, or anything I should look out for?

Also, I am feeling that my Onkyo TX-NR808 isn't going to be up to the challenge and was initially planning on upgrading to a more powerful Atmos receiver this fall. After reviewing the current receivers coming out this year (and specifically Onkyo's lack of Audyssey) I am going to wait until next years models come out before upgrading. This means I am in the process of buying an AMP now. I haven't received a straight answer from anyone on what size amp to use, but it seems that Triad is recommending around 200W at 4 ohms, so I was thinking of buying the Outlaw 7125. How much wattage are people using for the Silver LCR's? Will this be suitable, or should I go bigger/smaller? Do I need to look at another brand (looked at Emotiva, but I couldn't find one that seemed to fit my needs).

Thank you!
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post #6344 of 6522 Old 08-05-2014, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by grtuck View Post
Hello again all, I am about 6 weeks away from listening to my InWall Silver LCR's all around (with the platinum sub since I have ~ 4100 sq ft) and I had a question I was hoping someone might be able to answer for me. I am using the Triad supplied in wall mounting frames for the speakers, however, I also have 2 layers of drywall with Greenglue in between them. This leaves a gap between the edge of the mounting frame and where painted wall begins from the extra layer of drywall.

Are there going to be any issues with mounting the speaker flush with the wall? Is there anything I can do to make sure things go well, or anything I should look out for?

Also, I am feeling that my Onkyo TX-NR808 isn't going to be up to the challenge and was initially planning on upgrading to a more powerful Atmos receiver this fall. After reviewing the current receivers coming out this year (and specifically Onkyo's lack of Audyssey) I am going to wait until next years models come out before upgrading. This means I am in the process of buying an AMP now. I haven't received a straight answer from anyone on what size amp to use, but it seems that Triad is recommending around 200W at 4 ohms, so I was thinking of buying the Outlaw 7125. How much wattage are people using for the Silver LCR's? Will this be suitable, or should I go bigger/smaller? Do I need to look at another brand (looked at Emotiva, but I couldn't find one that seemed to fit my needs).

Thank you!
If I'm understanding you correctly, your cutout which Triad provides a template should be at most 1/8" to box perimeter. Trim kit will be screwed down to pinch drywall to hold speaker. Flush? Your trim will stick out slightly.......

As far as powering Silvers, good rule of thumb is have double rms in amp. Silvers are 150 watts, so amp capable of 300 rms in 4 ohms is fine. The Outlaw amp ie ATI amp will do just that and are typically rated conservatively.
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post #6345 of 6522 Old 08-05-2014, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
If I'm understanding you correctly, your cutout which Triad provides a template should be at most 1/8" to box perimeter. Trim kit will be screwed down to pinch drywall to hold speaker. Flush? Your trim will stick out slightly.......

As far as powering Silvers, good rule of thumb is have double rms in amp. Silvers are 150 watts, so amp capable of 300 rms in 4 ohms is fine. The Outlaw amp ie ATI amp will do just that and are typically rated conservatively.
Thank you for the help Doublewing11!

So even though there are 2 layers of drywall it will still seal off nicely for me? And as far as using the word "flush" that was a poor choice of words on my part.
I think I will plan on that amp then, unless anyone has any better options they recommend.
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

As far as powering Silvers, good rule of thumb is have double rms in amp. Silvers are 150 watts, so amp capable of 300 rms in 4 ohms is fine. The Outlaw amp ie ATI amp will do just that and are typically rated conservatively.
Emotiva xpa 3 and xpa 5 are also good choices to power these silvers as they are rated for continuous power of 300 rms in 4 ohms, all channels driven. Outlaw and emotiva would be fine choices here.
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post #6347 of 6522 Old 08-05-2014, 07:35 PM
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Thank you for the help Doublewing11!

So even though there are 2 layers of drywall it will still seal off nicely for me? And as far as using the word "flush" that was a poor choice of words on my part.
I think I will plan on that amp then, unless anyone has any better options they recommend.
With Silvers, 125 watts per channel is not ideal.......I thought you were referring to 200 watts per channel which is what you'd need. That would give you close to 300 watts in 4 ohm which is ideal.
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post #6348 of 6522 Old 08-06-2014, 05:50 AM
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With Silvers, 125 watts per channel is not ideal.......I thought you were referring to 200 watts per channel which is what you'd need. That would give you close to 300 watts in 4 ohm which is ideal.
I think I may have misspoken, the Outlaw 7125 runs 125 watts at 8 ohms, but 190 watts at 4 ohms, which is what the LCR's are listed at. Either way, it sounds like I may want to go a little bigger regardless.
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post #6349 of 6522 Old 08-06-2014, 06:05 AM
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[QUOTE=grtuck;26333193]I think I may have misspoken, the Outlaw 7125 runs 125 watts at 8 ohms, but 190 watts at 4 ohms, which is what the LCR's are listed at. Either way, it sounds like I may want to go a little bigger regardless.[/QUOTE

My Silvers used for surrounds have ran off a Krell S-1507 which is 300 watts in4 ohm and an ATI 1807 which is the same watt rating. Dynamic and clean using both amps. You're far more likely to run into problems under-powering than over. My Golds run of a Halo by Parasound A-31 which is 400 watts in 4 ohm........Gold have rms of 250 watts.

Once again, good rule of thump is 1.5 to double rms rating for amp but you can get away with less. In a dedicated room, you want your speakers reaching full potential without self destructing.
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I have a question as to if I can expect my Denon 4520ci to drive my Triad speakers. If so to what level? Hopefully at least to -10db...
The Denon specs are 9 channels @150 watts into 8 ohm, 190 watts into 6 ohms. No specs for 4 ohm except for dynamic power (whatever that is) 280 watts x2ch into 4 ohms. Maybe that is some kind of bridge mode?

The speakers I am installing are:
In-room Silver LCR (3)
In-ceiling Bronze/8 LCR (2) for rear surround
On-wall Bronze surround (2)
In-room Platinum Sub (came with its own 600W DSP Amp)

Should I expect the Denon to drive these - or do I need to consider external amps and only use the Denon as a pre-pro?

I am quite a novice at this stuff and any input appreciated. I am sure I will be back for room treatment advice as I don't have any (yet).

Thanks,
Bill
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post #6351 of 6522 Old 08-06-2014, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
I have a question as to if I can expect my Denon 4520ci to drive my Triad speakers. If so to what level? Hopefully at least to -10db...
The Denon specs are 9 channels @150 watts into 8 ohm, 190 watts into 6 ohms. No specs for 4 ohm except for dynamic power (whatever that is) 280 watts x2ch into 4 ohms. Maybe that is some kind of bridge mode?

The speakers I am installing are:
In-room Silver LCR (3)
In-ceiling Bronze/8 LCR (2) for rear surround
On-wall Bronze surround (2)
In-room Platinum Sub (came with its own 600W DSP Amp)

Should I expect the Denon to drive these - or do I need to consider external amps and only use the Denon as a pre-pro?

I am quite a novice at this stuff and any input appreciated. I am sure I will be back for room treatment advice as I don't have any (yet).

Thanks,
Bill
One question I have is: are you thinking of getting into Dolby Atmos and other object audio formats in the future? If yes, then you may want to consider reconfiguring your speaker layout and also holding on to see what Triad can do for more Atmos friendly models. Dipoles aren't really recommended for object surround.

I would also consider at least an outboard amp to drive the three Silver LCR's.

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post #6352 of 6522 Old 08-06-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
I have a question as to if I can expect my Denon 4520ci to drive my Triad speakers. If so to what level? Hopefully at least to -10db...
The Denon specs are 9 channels @150 watts into 8 ohm, 190 watts into 6 ohms. No specs for 4 ohm except for dynamic power (whatever that is) 280 watts x2ch into 4 ohms. Maybe that is some kind of bridge mode?

The speakers I am installing are:
In-room Silver LCR (3)
In-ceiling Bronze/8 LCR (2) for rear surround
On-wall Bronze surround (2)
In-room Platinum Sub (came with its own 600W DSP Amp)

Should I expect the Denon to drive these - or do I need to consider external amps and only use the Denon as a pre-pro?

I am quite a novice at this stuff and any input appreciated. I am sure I will be back for room treatment advice as I don't have any (yet).

Thanks,
Bill
One question I have is: are you thinking of getting into Dolby Atmos and other object audio formats in the future? If yes, then you may want to consider reconfiguring your speaker layout and also holding on to see what Triad can do in regards to more Atmos friendly models. Dipoles aren't really recommended for object surround.

I would also consider at least an outboard amp to drive the three Silver LCR's.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #6353 of 6522 Old 08-06-2014, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
One question I have is: are you thinking of getting into Dolby Atmos and other object audio formats in the future? If yes, then you may want to consider reconfiguring your speaker layout and also holding on to see what Triad can do for more Atmos friendly models. Dipoles aren't really recommended for object surround.

I would also consider at least an outboard amp to drive the three Silver LCR's.
Thanks Dan, I am not looking at Atmos (at least not very near term) as I am in the final stages of putting my multi-purpose room together. This is not a dedicated HT as I was unable to attain WAF for that

I already have the speakers and the Denon but may be able to swing an outboard amp at this point -- but only if needed as I am already a bit over budget for my HT equipment.

I should add its a fair sized room (26 long by 20 wide by 10 high plus a 10x8x10 high kitchenette on one side) so that is what? 5200 cu. ft. plus the kitchen?

Last edited by bgoering; 08-06-2014 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Adding info
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post #6354 of 6522 Old 08-06-2014, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
Thanks Dan, I am not looking at Atmos (at least not very near term) as I am in the final stages of putting my multi-purpose room together. This is not a dedicated HT as I was unable to attain WAF for that

I already have the speakers and the Denon but may be able to swing an outboard amp at this point -- but only if needed as I am already a bit over budget for my HT equipment.

I should add its a fair sized room (26 long by 20 wide by 10 high plus a 10x8x10 high kitchenette on one side) so that is what? 5200 cu. ft. plus the kitchen?
Oh, my yes! Definitely get at least a solid amp for your front three. Try Outlaw Audio (ATI) amps or Parasound.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #6355 of 6522 Old 08-06-2014, 07:06 PM
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Oh, my yes! Definitely get at least a solid amp for your front three. Try Outlaw Audio (ATI) amps or Parasound.
Guess I might as well start now getting WAF on spending another chunk of change. At this point (no room treatments) do you think a chunk of change would be better spent on treatments or an Amp? Assuming of course I can get WAF!

I was looking at Emotiva XPA-3 - do you have an opinion on that amp?

Here is the floor plan for the room - screen wall is the wall with the stairs behind it.
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post #6356 of 6522 Old 08-06-2014, 07:33 PM
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Guess I might as well start now getting WAF on spending another chunk of change. At this point (no room treatments) do you think a chunk of change would be better spent on treatments or an Amp? Assuming of course I can get WAF!

I was looking at Emotiva XPA-3 - do you have an opinion on that amp?

Here is the floor plan for the room - screen wall is the wall with the stairs behind it.
Some swear by Emotiva for bang vs buck, but I'm not as familiar with their stuff. Both ATI made Outlaw Audio Amps and Parasound amps are made from higher quality components, but not super expensive for what you get (compared to some companies). I have about a 13 year old multi-channel ATI amp still going strong... the damn thing's built like a tank and extremely heavy.

You'll probably have to save up for the treatments. The short answer is you should get both at some point as they are both extremely important (especially the kind of speakers you want to drive in a large room).

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post #6357 of 6522 Old 08-06-2014, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
Guess I might as well start now getting WAF on spending another chunk of change. At this point (no room treatments) do you think a chunk of change would be better spent on treatments or an Amp? Assuming of course I can get WAF!

I was looking at Emotiva XPA-3 - do you have an opinion on that amp?

Here is the floor plan for the room - screen wall is the wall with the stairs behind it.
The XPA-3 is a great amp at a very good price. It will do a great job of getting the maximum performance out of the Triad speakers. It will put out 330 watts into 4 Ohms. The Silver LCR's are 4 Ohms, (3.2 Ohms minimum), which would be a rather difficult load for the receiver to handle alone. The Silver LCR's have a maximum power handling spec of 150 watts. That's an RMS spec, or continuous power handling. The XPA-3 will give you over 3 dB of headroom for peaks, which should be optimal.

Nonetheless, those speakers should still be crossed over to the sub no lower than 80 Hz. In fact, a 100 or 120 Hz crossover will be even better, as long as subwoofer localization is not an issue. You can reduce the localization of the Platinum sub by using the high order slope of the LPF, (24 or 48 dB/octave.) Set the LPF frequency to the same frequency as the receiver crossover and the two LPF's working together will reduce localization.

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post #6358 of 6522 Old 08-07-2014, 04:02 PM
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Thanks Dan and Craig for all the good information - I expect to get out there this weekend and mount my last two speakers (on-wall surrounds going on the ceiling), wire up cables patch panel in AV rack, install Denon, DSP RackAmp, Lumagen, Oppo-103 in AV rack and start hooking some things up. I installed projector (JVC-RS57) and screen (144" 2:35 SI BD Zero Edge) last weekend - and got really bummed as power outlet in ceiling for projector in ceiling has no power so had to quit for a few days. Guess PJ is on extension cord for a while

If I am lucky I will be able to watch my first movie on new system Sunday Of course I am sure I will not get to PJ or Audyssey calibrations past brightness and contrast until at least the following weekend.

I will have to initially see how it sounds with just the receiver as wife apparently thinks a bit more furniture and rugs (I'm all for throw rugs as it is hard slate tile flooring in the room) are more important first - so I won't rock the boat just yet on treatments and an external amp. In the meantime will be researching for treatments, Parasound, ATI, and Emotiva.

Bill
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post #6359 of 6522 Old 08-07-2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
The Silver LCR's have a maximum power handling spec of 150 watts. That's an RMS spec, or continuous power handling.
Craig - do you have any idea where I can get my hands on a Frequency/Impedance chart for the Silver LCR? If I understand correctly a speaker impedance will change as the frequency changes.

Thanks, Bill
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post #6360 of 6522 Old 08-08-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
The XPA-3 is a great amp at a very good price. It will do a great job of getting the maximum performance out of the Triad speakers. It will put out 330 watts into 4 Ohms. The Silver LCR's are 4 Ohms, (3.2 Ohms minimum), which would be a rather difficult load for the receiver to handle alone. The Silver LCR's have a maximum power handling spec of 150 watts. That's an RMS spec, or continuous power handling. The XPA-3 will give you over 3 dB of headroom for peaks, which should be optimal.

Nonetheless, those speakers should still be crossed over to the sub no lower than 80 Hz. In fact, a 100 or 120 Hz crossover will be even better, as long as subwoofer localization is not an issue. You can reduce the localization of the Platinum sub by using the high order slope of the LPF, (24 or 48 dB/octave.) Set the LPF frequency to the same frequency as the receiver crossover and the two LPF's working together will reduce localization.

Craig
I just installed 3 in wall silver 6 lcr's for my front stage and use an emotiva xpa 3 to drive them. Plenty of oomph from the amp and I was having fun going louder with these than I could with my old speakers. My old ones would start to distort but these silvers powered on through and sounded better as they got louder. Watched Kill Bill vol 1 and was extremely happy with the fact that the silvers are much smoother in the mid to high freq's, not harsh to my ears while listening at extremely loud levels.
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