Triad Owner's Thread - Page 215 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 52Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #6421 of 6443 Old 09-10-2014, 09:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,011
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 87
1. yes (dolby is releasing another installer white paper this week at cedia with more info)
2. probably. your side surrounds are in the right place for it (for row 1) though very close to the seats. if row 2 gets used a lot, consider a second set of side surrounds there.
3. dolby in an interview said they don't use side surrounds in atmos upconversion. if atmos is your goal, ceilings are better than heights, as well.

____________________

Build Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nathan_h is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #6422 of 6443 Old 09-10-2014, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jimim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 13
thanks for the info so far. the second row are for guests. i really only care about the first row 2 seats. i thought about a second set of sides but my door is right there for the one side.

ok i didn't know that about wides. so only discrete 5 channel or 7 channel plus subs and ceiling speakers. the wides would only be used if i used on of the other surround formats, but correct me if i'm wrong there are no plans for true discrete wide or height channel mixes correct. it's all processed via processor? so the wides or hieghts if pushing an admos surround movie would only be mixed from the side or front channels?

thanks again everyone.

should i even bother wiring for wides then?

jimi
jimim is online now  
post #6423 of 6443 Old 09-10-2014, 11:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,011
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 87
You may want to ask in the Atmos for home thread.

____________________

Build Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nathan_h is online now  
post #6424 of 6443 Old 09-10-2014, 12:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,797
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post
thanks for the info so far. the second row are for guests. i really only care about the first row 2 seats. i thought about a second set of sides but my door is right there for the one side.

ok i didn't know that about wides. so only discrete 5 channel or 7 channel plus subs and ceiling speakers. the wides would only be used if i used on of the other surround formats, but correct me if i'm wrong there are no plans for true discrete wide or height channel mixes correct. it's all processed via processor? so the wides or hieghts if pushing an admos surround movie would only be mixed from the side or front channels?

thanks again everyone.

should i even bother wiring for wides then?

jimi
"Wides" for Atmos get bandied about in the wrong way these days. They are frontal side surrounds that fill in the gaps between the traditional sides and screen wall speakers just like in the cinema Atmos layout and are angled toward the Main Listening Position (MLP). That's why the Dolby Surround upmixer doesn't work with "wide" speakers. There are no traditional "wide" speaker locations with Atmos like DTS Neo:X or ProLogic IIz or Audyssey DSX post processing of the past. Dolby Surround upmixing works with the Atmos speaker layout, not traditional home theater layouts. In room's on swivel or angle mounts may work better here.

This also helps create a very basic side-wall pan-through array. The first for any home theater format.

If you get a first gen mainstream Atmos receiver or pre-amp that can do 9.1.2... or are considering 7.1.4 but want to keep your future upgrade options open, then you want to have front side surrounds... or at least wire for them.

The pairs of ceiling speakers (timbre matched) should be in line with your front left and right speakers, if you are using traditional angle locations of about 30 degrees. If the on-ceiling or in-ceiling speakers do not have at least a 90 degree dispersion pattern then they should be angled towards the MLP and not be firing straight down.

Here is the first basic Atmos installation guide:

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...guidelines.pdf
nathan_h likes this.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 09-10-2014 at 12:33 PM.
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #6425 of 6443 Old 09-10-2014, 01:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jimim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Now I'm confused so is thier front side channels with atmos. Meaning the jacks for the I puts on a receiver that is capable of atmos say front wides? Is thier actually channels in the mix for these speakers or are they just info from the rear sides or rear speakers? That's where I'm confused. I want to make sure I have a true layout. I will deff have the traditional 7 channels along with subs and with four ceiling speakers (I can't do more than that even if I should cause of two rows of seating). But I want to make sure I wire for other speakers if need be. Wides/heights/ or whatever.

So pretty much is atoms capable of 9. whatever vs just 7 or 5 channel. . .

how would the jacks be listed on the pre/pro?

jim

Last edited by jimim; 09-10-2014 at 04:50 PM.
jimim is online now  
post #6426 of 6443 Old 09-10-2014, 08:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,011
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 87
The paper Dan linked to shows where to put wide channels. This implies Atmos can use hem. (It is Dolby Surround, upconverting non-Atmos soundtracks, that won't make use of the wides.)

(update, i was wrong: Near as I can tell no receivers with Atmos announced yet can use the wides but Atmos is capable of using them.)

Eventually the concept of channels becomes irrelevant with a full Atmos system.

____________________

Build Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by nathan_h; 09-10-2014 at 10:12 PM. Reason: typo and error
nathan_h is online now  
post #6427 of 6443 Old 09-10-2014, 09:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,797
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
The paper Dan linked to shows where to put wide channels. This implies Atmos can use hem. (It is Dolby Surround, upconverting non-Atmos soundtracks, that won't make use of the side surrounds.)

Near as I can tell no receivers with Atmos announced yet can use the wides but Atmos is capable of using them.

Eventually the concept of channels becomes irrelevant with a full Atmos system.
Only the upper tier "mainstream" receivers and pre-amp/processors that can do 9.1.2 will allow for front side surrounds (what a lot of people keep calling wides, though they no longer are) at the expense of one pair of top surrounds. Other high end processors will allow for most or all of the 24.1.10 layout, so you don't have to compromise one for the other. Though you do have to be practically rich.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #6428 of 6443 Old 09-11-2014, 09:57 AM
Senior Member
 
Dawn Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Jupiter, FL USA
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Cedia 2014

Triad Prototypes


Aside from the new InRoom Bronze LRH Atmos enabled speaker (shipping in a couple of weeks), Triad is showing some interesting Atmos prototypes.


The first is a n OnWall Bronze Atmos speaker with Atmos drivers on top (pictures 1 and 2). It's in testing at Dolby labs right now and will hopefully be available within 6 months. In picture 3 you can see a prototype for a Triad Bronze InWall Atmos speaker. This one is further out, more like a year.


The Dolby booth demo is courtesy of Triad, with a full compliment of Bronze speakers, including IC Bronze/8 LCRs for the ceiling Atmos channels, as well as the new Bronze LRH Atmos models used as an A/B with the ceiling offerings. I was very impressed with the demo and excited to see that existing Triad speakers (in-ceilings) worked so well as Atmos speakers.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	photo 1.JPG
Views:	58
Size:	130.6 KB
ID:	257730   Click image for larger version

Name:	photo 2.JPG
Views:	54
Size:	105.5 KB
ID:	257738   Click image for larger version

Name:	photo 3.JPG
Views:	55
Size:	98.6 KB
ID:	257746  
grtuck likes this.

Authorized Dealer Sales: Triad Speakers, NHT, Marantz, Denon, JVC, Stewart Filmscreen, Screen innovations, Panamorph and Control4.
Dawn Gordon is offline  
post #6429 of 6443 Old 09-11-2014, 10:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,011
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
Triad Prototypes


Aside from the new InRoom Bronze LRH Atmos enabled speaker (shipping in a couple of weeks), Triad is showing some interesting Atmos prototypes.


The first is a n OnWall Bronze Atmos speaker with Atmos drivers on top (pictures 1 and 2). It's in testing at Dolby labs right now and will hopefully be available within 6 months. In picture 3 you can see a prototype for a Triad Bronze InWall Atmos speaker. This one is further out, more like a year.


The Dolby booth demo is courtesy of Triad, with a full compliment of Bronze speakers, including IC Bronze/8 LCRs for the ceiling Atmos channels, as well as the new Bronze LRH Atmos models used as an A/B with the ceiling offerings. I was very impressed with the demo and excited to see that existing Triad speakers (in-ceilings) worked so well as Atmos speakers.
That's super interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I'd love to see a photo of HOW they are positioning the InCeiling Bronze LCR's. Are they in the recommended spots or further forward and back because they are angled?

____________________

Build Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nathan_h is online now  
post #6430 of 6443 Old 09-11-2014, 04:55 PM
Member
 
bgoering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
The Dolby booth demo is courtesy of Triad, with a full compliment of Bronze speakers, including IC Bronze/8 LCRs for the ceiling Atmos channels, as well as the new Bronze LRH Atmos models used as an A/B with the ceiling offerings. I was very impressed with the demo and excited to see that existing Triad speakers (in-ceilings) worked so well as Atmos speakers.

That is interesting - I would have expected the 45 degree angle on the IC Bronze/8 LCRs to mess with the object sound placement in Atmos - how does that work?
bgoering is online now  
post #6431 of 6443 Old 09-12-2014, 06:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Dawn Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Jupiter, FL USA
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
That's super interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I'd love to see a photo of HOW they are positioning the InCeiling Bronze LCR's. Are they in the recommended spots or further forward and back because they are angled?
That's not an easy thing to do. Dolby is running demos back to back and I don't think they would like it very much if I asked them to stop and put the lights on to take photos. :-)

I can tell you that from what I saw, the IC Bronze LCRs were positioned fairly close to the seating positions and not closer to the front like they are normally used.

Authorized Dealer Sales: Triad Speakers, NHT, Marantz, Denon, JVC, Stewart Filmscreen, Screen innovations, Panamorph and Control4.
Dawn Gordon is offline  
post #6432 of 6443 Old 09-12-2014, 06:25 AM
Senior Member
 
Dawn Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Jupiter, FL USA
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoering View Post
That is interesting - I would have expected the 45 degree angle on the IC Bronze/8 LCRs to mess with the object sound placement in Atmos - how does that work?
It worked very well. Even more interesting was how great the IR Bronze Atmos enabled speakers did. Bouncing of the ceiling was very effective.

A point to note: if you have ceilings taller than 14-15 feet I would highly suggest in-ceilings.

Authorized Dealer Sales: Triad Speakers, NHT, Marantz, Denon, JVC, Stewart Filmscreen, Screen innovations, Panamorph and Control4.
Dawn Gordon is offline  
post #6433 of 6443 Old 09-12-2014, 08:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,011
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
That's not an easy thing to do. Dolby is running demos back to back and I don't think they would like it very much if I asked them to stop and put the lights on to take photos. :-)

I can tell you that from what I saw, the IC Bronze LCRs were positioned fairly close to the seating positions and not closer to the front like they are normally used.
That makes sense. The challenge with the IC Bronze LCR would be that the dispersion is not as wide, so placement is more critical -- and might only be ideal for one or two rows.

Were they using four or two in ceiling speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post
It worked very well. Even more interesting was how great the IR Bronze Atmos enabled speakers did. Bouncing of the ceiling was very effective.

A point to note: if you have ceilings taller than 14-15 feet I would highly suggest in-ceilings.
Those are of interest to me. The logical replacement for my side surround speakers (which are silver surrounds) would be on wall LCR bronze since my front LCR are bronze and my rear are bronze. So getting those atmos-on-wall bronze could kill two birds with one stone, though I have a treated ceiling to contend with and I actually have no constraints on installing ceiling speakers....

____________________

Build Thread:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nathan_h is online now  
post #6434 of 6443 Old 09-13-2014, 07:41 AM
Senior Member
 
Dawn Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Jupiter, FL USA
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
That makes sense. The challenge with the IC Bronze LCR would be that the dispersion is not as wide, so placement is more critical -- and might only be ideal for one or two rows.

Were they using four or two in ceiling speakers?



Those are of interest to me. The logical replacement for my side surround speakers (which are silver surrounds) would be on wall LCR bronze since my front LCR are bronze and my rear are bronze. So getting those atmos-on-wall bronze could kill two birds with one stone, though I have a treated ceiling to contend with and I actually have no constraints on installing ceiling speakers....
They were using 4 in-ceiling speakers. Had over 20 seats in about 4 rows.

Authorized Dealer Sales: Triad Speakers, NHT, Marantz, Denon, JVC, Stewart Filmscreen, Screen innovations, Panamorph and Control4.
Dawn Gordon is offline  
post #6435 of 6443 Old 09-13-2014, 08:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,797
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked: 415
The Triads used in the Dolby Atmos demo were very, very good. The up firing element is hit and miss, depending on the content. I've noticed that just like the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers, you need height effects with a distinct height transfer cue or Doppler effect for the enabled speakers to work their best. Otherwise, they sound like a good DSP mode you'd get on a Yamaha or other receiver.

Real overheads are what you should be shooting for. No if's and's or but's about it. Yes, I was at CEDIA and this was very obvious in soooooooo many demos.

Sound quality vs. price... I must give the nod to Andrew Jones. However, I still strongly suggest people buy American. It may cost a bit more, but the benefits far outweigh the difference.
BrolicBeast and grtuck like this.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 09-13-2014 at 08:18 PM.
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #6436 of 6443 Old 09-13-2014, 10:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 25

Video from CEDIA 2014.
nathan_h and grtuck like this.
Spizz is online now  
post #6437 of 6443 Old 09-15-2014, 12:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BrolicBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Charles County, MD
Posts: 2,935
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 308
Does anybody know if InWall Gold LCR's can be mounted upside down? I'd like to use them as Atmos/Auro ceiling channels, but don't want to damage them. The bronzes wont be able to match my current setup (Gold LCR's in two width and six surround positions) in timbre or output. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
BrolicBeast is online now  
post #6438 of 6443 Old Yesterday, 05:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Dawn Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Jupiter, FL USA
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 32
IW Gold LCRs weigh a hefty 45 pounds each, and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable putting them in the ceiling. In addition, that configuration isn't the best fit for Atmos because the speakers should be angled toward the listeners position.

A better selection would be the InCeiling Gold/8 Omni SE.
grtuck likes this.

Authorized Dealer Sales: Triad Speakers, NHT, Marantz, Denon, JVC, Stewart Filmscreen, Screen innovations, Panamorph and Control4.
Dawn Gordon is offline  
post #6439 of 6443 Old Yesterday, 05:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,751
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 301
Well, CEDIA is over and being told Triad would have perfect match to my existing system for Atmos......well, I'm a little disappointed.

Triad in-ceiling Bronze could work for my front, but dispersion is not ideal covering 7 seat configuration. My real issue is how to direct sound for rear seating which Triad in-ceiling Bronze definitely won't work.



As the photo shows, first row would be fine with 45 degree baffle from IC Bronze........not so much for rear. To have proper dispersion, I have to have 90 degree conical dispersion........no Triad product will suffice for rear ceiling.

For now, I'm waiting for Roger Dressler to set up his system.......he'll be using Tannoy concentric drivers ie coaxials which would be much better for my application.

I have thought about possibly using In-wall 4 Bonze for rear ceiling......but then again, dispersion, dispersion.

BTW, Dan......thanks for helping with CEDIA. Came down to 4-5 hrs on show floor was not enough time......seeing my Daughter in Boston was more important. Thanks again Dan for your help.......I owe you!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	194.9 KB
ID:	265833  

My Build Threads


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
doublewing11 is offline  
post #6440 of 6443 Old Yesterday, 05:33 PM
Member
 
grtuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Well, CEDIA is over and being told Triad would have perfect match to my existing system for Atmos......well, I'm a little disappointed.

Triad in-ceiling Bronze could work for my front, but dispersion is not ideal covering 7 seat configuration. My real issue is how to direct sound for rear seating which Triad in-ceiling Bronze definitely won't work.



As the photo shows, first row would be fine with 45 degree baffle from IC Bronze........not so much for rear. To have proper dispersion, I have to have 90 degree conical dispersion........no Triad product will suffice for rear ceiling.

For now, I'm waiting for Roger Dressler to set up his system.......he'll be using Tannoy concentric drivers ie coaxials which would be much better for my application.

I have thought about possibly using In-wall 4 Bonze for rear ceiling......but then again, dispersion, dispersion.

BTW, Dan......thanks for helping with CEDIA. Came down to 4-5 hrs on show floor was not enough time......seeing my Daughter in Boston was more important. Thanks again Dan for your help.......I owe you!
I agree doublewing11, I'm quite disappointed myself. I was hoping for a better option for my build too.
grtuck is offline  
post #6441 of 6443 Old Yesterday, 05:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,751
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by grtuck View Post
I agree doublewing11, I'm quite disappointed myself. I was hoping for a better option for my build too.
Yep......

I wonder why those 4 small 2" Seas drivers on top of the new Atmos enabled Bronze can't be used as add ons for ceiling ie. in-ceiling add on modules.
grtuck likes this.

My Build Threads


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
doublewing11 is offline  
post #6442 of 6443 Old Yesterday, 09:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,797
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Well, CEDIA is over and being told Triad would have perfect match to my existing system for Atmos......well, I'm a little disappointed.

Triad in-ceiling Bronze could work for my front, but dispersion is not ideal covering 7 seat configuration. My real issue is how to direct sound for rear seating which Triad in-ceiling Bronze definitely won't work.



As the photo shows, first row would be fine with 45 degree baffle from IC Bronze........not so much for rear. To have proper dispersion, I have to have 90 degree conical dispersion........no Triad product will suffice for rear ceiling.

For now, I'm waiting for Roger Dressler to set up his system.......he'll be using Tannoy concentric drivers ie coaxials which would be much better for my application.

I have thought about possibly using In-wall 4 Bonze for rear ceiling......but then again, dispersion, dispersion.

BTW, Dan......thanks for helping with CEDIA. Came down to 4-5 hrs on show floor was not enough time......seeing my Daughter in Boston was more important. Thanks again Dan for your help.......I owe you!
Hey, not a problem! Glad to help. Too bad we couldn't meet up... I ended up being there for 2 1/2 days. Audio nirvana!!!

Talk to Steve Colburn, product developer at Triad. Great guy! Met him at the Triad booth and we chatted a bit. The more they hear about the special needs of their customers for their unique Atmos installations, the more likely they'll come up with a solution for you and others.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is offline  
post #6443 of 6443 Old Today, 12:40 PM
Newbie
 
stevecolburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Hi all! Steve Colburn from Triad here.

As most of you know, Triad supplied the speakers for Dolby's Atmos demo at CEDIA. I was Triad's representative at Dolby's CEDIA demo during setup and installation. Triad has been working with Dolby on the Atmos project as their development partner for 2 years so we have about as much experience with it as any others. It is very important to keep in mind, however, that Atmos electronics are only just hitting the market right now as AVRs supporting 4 height speakers. Pre pros with capabilities for additional height channels will follow, mostly in Q1 2015. This means that nobody, including Dolby and Triad, has much real world, real application experience which is needed to confidently specify what will best serve a particular room & system.

There are a lot of inaccurate and ill-informed recommendations floating around. The fact is that we have theoretical guidelines, with limited experience. Only more experience, like we got at CEDIA, will give us all the foundation we need to design & create the best performing Atmos systems. Even Dolby's Installation Guide introduced at CEDIA does not include the almost real-world systems and applications they supported at CEDIA, so they (and we) know quite a bit more now than they did when that doc was written. This is particularly true regarding ceiling height speakers, where they had little if any experience with anything other than constant directivity overheads and with seating locations that extended lengthwise in a room. CEDIA gave them and us experience with longer seating locations and angled baffle overheads.

With those caveats, let's look at a few basic guidelines we should follow in designing and laying out a home theater for best Atmos performance:

Atmos' goal is to create an overhead domed soundfield within which sound objects can be positioned and moved in 3 dimensional space. The technology to achieve this with both Atmos and legacy recordings is extremely sophisticated. It involves a listener-level base grouping of speakers that starts out as the legacy 5 and 7 channel (7.X) surround systems we are familiar with - but with a few new nuanced differences. This listener level speaker grouping is meant to be located at or just above (1 foot) listeners' ears. This replaces previous legacy recommendations for surround speaker height of 2 feet above listeners. All speakers for this level should be positioned in an even plane around the listeners' ears. Ideally monopole speakers rather than dipoles should be used to obtain the image specificity that Atmos enjoys. The 2nd layer is the Height level. The number of height speakers is designated by an additional third number in our system nomenclature. So 7.X (subs) becomes 7.X.4 with the .4 showing that there are 4 Atmos height speakers. OK?

A big factor in creating the proper sound field above the listeners is having enough space between the 2 levels. The effects diminish if there is not enough difference here or if the listener speaker level is too high above the listeners.

There are two ways to create Atmos height level. The first uses Atmos Enhanced speakers at the listener level. At CEDIA Expo Triad introduced our Atmos Enhanced & Certified InRoom Bronze LR-H. Think of this as an InRoom Bronze LCR with the Atmos enhanced height channel (separate input) on top. We call it LR-H rather than LCR-H because Atmos center channels never have height elements. They would typically replace the left & right front and left and right back or surround speakers. Since these height speakers reflect sound off the ceiling, ceilings should be flat, reflective, and within a range of approx 8 to 14 feet high. Atmos Enhanced speakers must be certified by Dolby to meet very specific and unique frequency response curves that were determined psychoacoustically to work better when reflected off the ceiling. On a personal note, I found that the enhanced speakers delivered a good "Atmos experience", slightly more diffuse than overheads at the money seats but better and less in-your-face for those seated close to the speakers.

The second way to create Atmos height level is with ceiling mounted speakers. It is important to note that presently Dolby has no Atmos certification and few standards for ceiling speakers (until they do, you won't see an Atmos ceiling speaker). They are meant to be traditional in or on ceiling speakers with no unusual frequency response curves, although they want them to produce within 3 dB max output of the main fronts at the money seat. With Dolby coming from a commercial environment they have little experience with angled ceiling speakers and because they were primarily considering limited seating areas (typically 1 row), they specified constant directivity, broad dispersion ceiling speakers. Since in real world dedicated home theaters, we tend to have our listening positions spread out over multiple rows, angled baffle speakers can be used and in many situations will be superior to downfiring ones. CEDIA may have been Dolby's first experience with angled baffle speakers.

At CEDIA Dolby introduced specific guidelines for placement of downfiring overhead speakers. These guidelines are not meant to address angled baffle ceiling speakers, I believe. The keys to selecting and placing ceiling speakers in an X.X.4 configuration are the speaker's coverage angles vs seating locations while keeping them far enough from the money seats that they become dominant. Overhead speaker selection and placement should be done on a case by case basis taking into account room dimensions, seating locations, ceiling height, & the number of height speakers used.

Dolby's CEDIA demo room had 20 seats, 4 rows of 5. The overhead speakers were Triad's (45 degree) angle baffled InCeiling Bronze/8 LCRs. I was concerned beforehand how our moderately priced ($600 ea) & performing Bronze LCRs would deal with a 20 seat theater that is larger than suggested for these. I was also concerned whether and how 4 ceiling speakers of any sort would cover the expanse of 20 seats. We positioned them for what we thought would be the best compromise for the middle seats (With 4 rows, if you stretch ceiling speakers too far apart or use straight downfiring 90 x 90 speakers, the center seats get a hole in the middle just as though you were listening to stereo speakers too far apart). I don't know of any type of speaker that would provide an uncompromised experience for all 20 seats using just 4 overheads. I can't wait until we see electronics that support more than 4 height speakers for these larger higher end home theaters.

Dolby's Atmos at CEDIA Expo is just the very beginning. While it was a promising and exciting start, it has a long way to grow and develop as we become more experienced with how Atmos responds to different applications and as new electronics are released.

I hope you found this helpful.

Steve Colburn
Triad Speakers
stevecolburn is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Triad

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off